Ok... I'm updating my FJ1100's front end to a 1988 FZR1000 and what do I do.. Stupid me buys a 1991 front rim.
The problem as many of you know is the bearing size... 15mm x 40mm x 13mm and guess what they don't make any bearings that size. I did much research and I found a "deep groove track rolle bearing" which is sealed both sides and is good up to 70,000 rpm. load and impact rating is very high because of the high side impact on track bearings. The size however is 15x40x11mm. 2mm per bearing narrower then oem.
I figured I'll try them.
I'm doing a new front wheel and I bought all new collars, seals and center spacer and as stated bearings too.
I have a 18" rear rim with the modifications to the carrier bearing spacer, construction of the center spacer and modified brake caliper bracket as I found online.
Wish me luck
if it comes down to it I'll buy a FJ1200 front wheel and call it a day.
Hey at least i'm trying. What's the worse that could happen? :bomb:
Quote from: ccsct203 on February 09, 2010, 02:43:36 PM
Hey at least i'm trying. What's the worse that could happen? :bomb:
let's not find out that answer please......if you dont trust the mod dont ride it... plain and simple since it's your hiney on it..... that being said i firmly believe anything can be done if one chooses to invest the research, time and money into it.
Kookaloo!
Frank
I would never put myself in danger. I'm worth more then the price of a wheel.
If the bearing specs were not what they are, I would never have posted.
I'm not an engineer but I have never risked my life over any of the mods I have done.
I have done countless wheel bearings and I never would ride a machine which is not safe.
Just trying to be a monkey in the wrench here.
Is it possible to use the FZR 17mm (?) axle and bore out the fork legs? Does an FZR have upside down forks?
DavidR.
Three areas of concern;
1) The 11mm wide bearing (vs.13mm oem) can the bearing carry the load? Probably....
2) The narrower 11mm wide bearing in the aluminum rim, can the inside diameter of the aluminum stand the higher loads? i.e.Loads spread over a smaller surface area. Not sure about this, we have very heavy front wheel loads with our 550lb bikes and 300+lbs of riders and gear...
3) Now you do realize that your axle spacers need to be 2mm longer on each side....
I just woke up or I'd do the math myself, I swear:
So assuming that a healthy FJ can run an honest 150mph, how much rpm would the front wheel be turning?
I bought a 89 rim by mistake and I had the same problem as you.I took my rim to a machine shop and had them machine out the bearing housing.The wheel works great.I live in the mountains so I have put the wheel through alot.Good luck with your mods.
Buddy
instead of trying to fix it at the bearings. change out the front forks to fzr1000 forks and save yourself the hassle. and then you can update the front calipers and rotors too.
I am no rocket scientist or engineer but here is my crack at answering your problem.
To get a number I am making assumptions since tires are a variable that you did not provide. Not to worry, the numbers will be close enough to get the gist of it.
Assumptions, your tire is 17 x 60 x 3.5.
Your tire circumference is about 54.22 inches (I used the gearing commander page to guesstimate the circumference, http://www.gearingcommander.com/ (http://www.gearingcommander.com/)). A mile is 5280 feet (Times 12 inches) equals 63,360 inches. Your wheel/tire will rotate (63,360 inches divided by 54.22 inches of circumference) or 1,168.57 rotations per mile. Save this bit of data. 150 miles per hour is 2.5 miles per minute. Multiply the 1,168.57 by the 2.5 miles per minute equals 2,921.42 RPM.
Now, if I murdered this one I will justly deserve the crap that comes my way. But its all fun and games till someone looses his Kookaloooooooo.
:dance2:
Quote from: bama1 on February 09, 2010, 08:08:24 PM
I bought a 89 rim by mistake and I had the same problem as you.I took my rim to a machine shop and had them machine out the bearing housing.The wheel works great.I live in the mountains so I have put the wheel through alot.Good luck with your mods.
Buddy
I've wondered if that was a viable option........bearings are only 2mm larger from memory........there seems to be plenty of metal in the bearing housing area to accommodate this without weakening the hub.
Glad you've confirmed the idea.
Harvy
Quote from: andyb on February 09, 2010, 07:18:58 PM
I just woke up or I'd do the math myself, I swear:
So assuming that a healthy FJ can run an honest 150mph, how much rpm would the front wheel be turning?
It's raining and I'm bored,so...
@150mph you are going 2.5 miles per minute; @5280ft. per mile x 2.5 you are going 13,200 ft. per minute
Convert into inches; 13,200 ft. x 12 = 158,400 inches per minute (@150mph)
Assuming a 120/70-17 front tire with a circumference of 74.19 inches
http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_tire/tire.php (http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_tire/tire.php)
158,400/74.19 = 2,135 rpm (no biggie).
I don't think rpms are the issue, @150mph it's the same oem vs.FZR; but the lateral loading from the narrower bearing is more concentrated.
Hey Harvy
I had actually posted this mod last year and you had left me a reply.Somebody had said there wasnt enough material there to do the mod.The machine shop had no problems with it.Take care Harvy.
Buddy
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on February 09, 2010, 04:35:17 PM
Does an FZR have upside down forks?
DavidR.
Yes, I have a set on 1992 FZR USD forks on my '84... I love 'em.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/49_13_12_09_7_52_07.jpeg)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 09, 2010, 08:58:51 PM
158,400/74.19 = 2,135 rpm (no biggie).
I don't think rpms are the issue, @150mph it's the same oem vs.FZR; but the lateral loading from the narrower bearing is more concentrated.
Thanks for the math guys :) I just was wondering if that 70krpm bearing was rated for it, and didn't want to personally bugger the math in a half awake state.
Hell, I'm still only half awake and it's been an hour or two. Maybe I should give up and go back to bed...
Quote from: bama1 on February 09, 2010, 09:01:00 PM
Hey Harvy
I had actually posted this mod last year and you had left me a reply.Somebody had said there wasnt enough material there to do the mod.The machine shop had no problems with it.Take care Harvy.
Buddy
What can I say......Old-timers must be setting in......lol
You to Buddy.
Harvy
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 09, 2010, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on February 09, 2010, 04:35:17 PM
Does an FZR have upside down forks?
DavidR.
Yes, I have a set on 1992 FZR USD forks on my '84... I love 'em.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/49_13_12_09_7_52_07.jpeg)
Pat, that sure is pretty......
Eric M
Direct sunlight on that could damage an admirer's eyes...... :hi:
You got her looking sweet Pat :good2:
KOokaloo!
Pat...that is just fricken georgeous... :good2:..
Cheers...Jake
So I received the bearings and pulled the old ones out. The old bearing measures 12mm not the 13mm i first thought.
Thats a difference of 2mm total or an 8% difference or about .080 inch.
I have not measured my Fj bearings but I will tonight.
I don't ride over the 80-90mph mark.
The bearings look substantial and give me no reason to believe they would not hold up since they are again made to handle high side loads and up to 70k rpms.
I wonder what the after market bearings are good for in rpm?
If i knew a engineer then I would talk to them. But since I only have the info from the manufacturer and the spec sheet to go by i'll have to try it and report back.
I have a 3.0 inch wheel with oem bearings in case i notice issues with this 3.5 inch wheel.
Hey, new guy here. I did this mod last winter and installed a 91 FZR1000 front wheel in my 93 FJ. I was able to find an industrial bearing that width and OD was correct for the wheel, the change is it has a 3/4" ID. The I bought some 15MM ID steel bushings from McMaster Carr and turned them to a 0.002" press fit in the bearing and the right side spacer. I reused the FJ speedo drive. This gave me a 2MM +/- wall thickness bushing, I felt comfortable with this. I put 7K miles on this setup last year and it was flawless. This included a day of very aggressive twisties and elevated speeds.
If you want i can get you the numbers for the bearing and bushings.
Dan
Quote from: captaudi on March 04, 2010, 06:45:15 AM
If you want i can get you the numbers for the bearing and bushings.
Hi Dan... please do! Thanks! :good2:
OK, lets see if I can get this right.
The front bearings are 6203-2rs 3/4". If you type that into eBay you will find a common agricultural and industrial bearing. I assume it is a mongrel to use a imported (metric) component on a standard 3/4" shaft. I went through all of the listings and found one that listed the specs. Matched them against the ratings in Mcmaster carr and found one of what I felt was high enough quality.
The bushings are McMaster Carr #7811K29 15mmx21mmx16mm bronze alloy rated for 7500 lbs. I made a mandrel in the lather and turned the outside diameter to a 0.002" press fit in the bearing. Then trimmed them to length (12mm). I pressed them into the bearings with red loctite.
Use the FJ1200 speedo drive, and the r/s spacer from the FZR1000. Seals are to match the wheel.
The overall width of the stack is 1.5mm narrower than the fj1200 wheel, this means I am deflecting the fork sliders slightly. Jon Cain and I discussed this and he felt I was OK. In all things fork related I trust Jon's opinion.
The wheel is 2lbs lighter, the tire profile is better and now I have these 320mm rotors waiting to get the calipers spaced out. I may need some of Jon's CNC expertise for this.
Would I do it again? Maybe, now I need to see if I can adapt to the YZF600r forks. I should have gone the yzf route from the begining.
Cheers,
Dan
Thanks for the info.
I used all oem parts I ordered from Bikebandit.com
To make the center spacer I used a 1/2 x 6" piece of black pipe and cut it down to 95mm which is 2mm longer then the oem spacer.
as noted the new bearings are 1mm narrower then oem or 2mm total.
speedo drive-oem large seal-speedo ring-new bearing-1mm spacer-1991 wheel w/95mm x 1/2 black pipe spacer-1mm spacer-new bearing-oem seal-oem fj1200 left spacer
this was all assembled with the 1988 fzr1000 axle.
I'm waiting on my wheel paint to harden to reassemble everything.
7K miles... sounds good so far.
I do have the 1988 fzr1000 forks so no deflection necessary.
Sounds like a good fix to me :good2:. As long as you have the bearings seated against the 1mm spacers and the length of the tube is spot on, it should work great! I would verify essentially zero gap between the inner bearings races and the spacer. You don't want to have preload on the bearings when the axle is tightened. You will love having the 3.5" wheel, with a Pilot Road the overall feel is very stable and linear.
Cheers,
Dan
i may just install 1 1-mm spacer and press the 2nd bearing up against the spacer then I'll know that the bearing is up against the spacer.
I bought a extra set of bearings JIC.
the last time i loaded the bearings incorrectly was on a mini-bike many years ago.
I'll never do that again...lol
I'll be happy once this is done but then I'll be looking for the next project.
Maybe I'll install a FJR1300 FI unit on the bike....mmm
I just noticed you are in Ct. We should try and hook up for a ride. My riding buddy is in Hartford, we should find some twistys in bewteen and ride them. Let me know if you are interested.
Cheers,
Dan