Ok, it's been a little slow here on the forum lately, so let me throw this out... Why do we use brake fluid in our brake and clutch systems? I am sick to death of this crap that eats paint like the blood of the Alien creature that ate thru three decks of the Nostromo. I mean this stuff is (almost) better than paint remover. And I'm tired of it. Yes, I know all about how brake fluid has a boiling point only slightly lower than the surface of the sun. My question is... do we actually need it?
Sure, a race bike might need a very high boiling point fluid, but for the rest of us... long cruises, maybe some fun thru the canyons every once in a while... but we're not really racing. We're not using our brakes at 100% over and over. Well, most of us... So can we get by with a lower boiling point fluid that doesn't eat the paint off of every surface it touches? Can we use a fluid that doesn't absorb water out of the air and cause corrosion?
Interesting fact for you... we don't use brake fluid on airplanes. We use a hydraulic fluid called 5606, and it looks a LOT like ATF. Same color, viscosity, similar boiling points. And airplane brakes get damn hot. And we don't have any problems with boiling the "brake fluid." So why not use 5606 in our bikes? It doesn't eat paint, doesn't eat plastic, it doesn't do anything except just sit there until you wipe it up. I know it would be compatible with the seals, so no problem there. Redline even makes a high-temp ATF but I have no experience with it. Might work...
And I really can't see any reason to NOT use it in our clutch systems. That system doesn't get hot. Wouldn't it be nice to have a fluid that doesn't dissolve the chin fairing when the clutch slave leaks?
Any thoughts? Opinions? Uninformed wild guesses? Has anybody tried it? Tell ya what... I'm gonna give it a try when I put my bike back together. Might be a few months so don't hold your breath, but I'll let you know how it works.
Bill
Dunno about the 5006, but I've been using DOT5 in my FJ for years... :pardon:
Quote from: CutterBill on November 15, 2015, 09:02:13 PM
Ok, it's been a little slow here on the forum lately, so let me throw this out... Why do we use brake fluid in our brake and clutch systems? I am sick to death of this crap that eats paint like the blood of the Alien creature that ate thru three decks of the Nostromo. I mean this stuff is (almost) better than paint remover. And I'm tired of it. Yes, I know all about how brake fluid has a boiling point only slightly lower than the surface of the sun. My question is... do we actually need it?
Sure, a race bike might need a very high boiling point fluid, but for the rest of us... long cruises, maybe some fun thru the canyons every once in a while... but we're not really racing. We're not using our brakes at 100% over and over. Well, most of us... So can we get by with a lower boiling point fluid that doesn't eat the paint off of every surface it touches? Can we use a fluid that doesn't absorb water out of the air and cause corrosion?
Interesting fact for you... we don't use brake fluid on airplanes. We use a hydraulic fluid called 5606, and it looks a LOT like ATF. Same color, viscosity, similar boiling points. And airplane brakes get damn hot. And we don't have any problems with boiling the "brake fluid." So why not use 5606 in our bikes? It doesn't eat paint, doesn't eat plastic, it doesn't do anything except just sit there until you wipe it up. I know it would be compatible with the seals, so no problem there. Redline even makes a high-temp ATF but I have no experience with it. Might work...
And I really can't see any reason to NOT use it in our clutch systems. That system doesn't get hot. Wouldn't it be nice to have a fluid that doesn't dissolve the chin fairing when the clutch slave leaks?
Any thoughts? Opinions? Uninformed wild guesses? Has anybody tried it? Tell ya what... I'm gonna give it a try when I put my bike back together. Might be a few months so don't hold your breath, but I'll let you know how it works.
Bill
Bill...... good question..... this may be of interest b4 you use 5606
http://www.csobeech.com/5606-Replacement.html (http://www.csobeech.com/5606-Replacement.html)
and this on Automotive brake fluid
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-fluid (http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-fluid)
Harvy
Harvy,
looks interesting but didn't say if it eats paint or not. I'll check it out.
Bill
Interesting....
Would REALLY be nice with an alternative :good2:
I was thinking that DoD replaced 5606 with 83282 a long time ago. I know it was pretty much a done deal when I worked for the Navy. There were numerous nasty fires fed by leaking hydraulic systems. Probably not such a big deal on a bike.
Here is the civilian equivalent of 5606. http://www.phillips66lubricants.com/mobile/Single.aspx?pid=124&brand=Conoco (http://www.phillips66lubricants.com/mobile/Single.aspx?pid=124&brand=Conoco)
My previous company was using 5606, when I found this it saved them a lot of $$$. Red dye is not included, but can be added for minimal cost.
Quote from: CutterBill on November 15, 2015, 09:02:13 PM
...
Tell ya what... I'm gonna give it a try when I put my bike back together. Might be a few months so don't hold your breath, but I'll let you know how it works.
Bill
Need someone to hold your beer? (popcorn)
I think Bill has professed to enjoying a spirit a bit more distilled than beer.
I think the answer is two fold. One reason is that it has been tested and approved for automotive applications. Think of the liability of any OEM that has to deal with a brake failure law suit that uses a fluid other than the long standing "DOT". The second is more likely the reason it is still used. It has been used for so long that it can be purchased almost anywhere. Try to find 5606 at an AM/PM or any service station. I am not knocking the concept of alternative fluids. Just tossing my $.02 in for the discussion. As already stated, you could flush (really well) and use DOT5, it won't damage paint.
Quote from: FJmonkey on November 16, 2015, 12:10:47 PM
I think Bill has professed to enjoying a spirit a bit more distilled than beer.
Right, so it's safe to say that your gonna hold his flask? Gotcha. :i_am_so_happy:
Quote from: FJmonkey on November 16, 2015, 12:10:47 PM
I think Bill has professed to enjoying a spirit a bit more distilled than beer.
Don't get me wrong... I love beer. A Sam Adams Boston Lager, if you please. But as Monkey says, I do indeed enjoy my scotch... Lagavulin 16 with an ice cube. :drinks:
But neither would make very good brake fluid. The Arctic Fluid is interesting, but sure has a low flash point... 217F. About the same as 5606. I'll have to check the specs on the 83282. I'm not sold on the DOT5 stuff. Honestly, I don't know anything about it, other than what I read.
And as for needing someone to hold my beer while I put my FJ back together... no... lol... don't need that. But what I do need is to come up with another $2000 to finish it. I still need to vapor blast the major engine parts, powdercoat the frame, wheels and various bits, buy the internal pieces for the engine, a set of the Speedhut gauges, tires, and then repair and paint the fairing (unless I make a new one.) Plus a bunch of other little stuff. It all adds up. I figure I'll have about $6K in it when I'm done, but where are you going to buy a new bike with that much capability for $6K?
Ok, enough foolishness for one night. I need to build a website so I can get more business so I can make more money so I can buy more FJ parts!
Bill
Onward... thru the fog!
Four (4) clutch slave cylinder rebuilds with DOT3/4 in the first 15 years of ownership.
Bought new slave cylinder in 2000 and converted to DOT5. ZERO problems with slave cylinder since then.
Coincidence? I think not!
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 16, 2015, 10:22:06 PM
Four (4) clutch slave cylinder rebuilds with DOT3/4 in the first 15 years of ownership.
Bought new slave cylinder in 2000 and converted to DOT5. ZERO problems with slave cylinder since then.
Coincidence? I think not!
Similar experience here, three years.
Except I just cleaned up the old slave, new seal kit, and added YZF750 m/c and braided line.
No f'd up paint, either... less than 5 mins to bleed.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 16, 2015, 10:22:06 PM
Four (4) clutch slave cylinder rebuilds with DOT3/4 in the first 15 years of ownership.
Bought new slave cylinder in 2000 and converted to DOT5. ZERO problems with slave cylinder since then.
Now that is useful data!
Replaced the clutch slave cylinder around 1999. That was the only time I had an issue in 118K miles. Still using DOT 4.
How often do you flush the fluid?
As I recall, from theory in trade school (long ago,1970's) one of the several qualities required of brake fluid is a low and stable viscosity.
The glycol based fluids , being much like antifreeze remain fairly thin even at low ambient temperatures. A brake whose feel and performance might vary with seasonal temperatures, or even from morning to night temps. seems like a bad idea.
i agree with the OP but even take it farther
why would i want ANY plumbing on the bike where it is not needed
all my bikes with cable actuated clutches do just fine, including the 2016
temperatures are out of the equation
i would prefer a modification that did away with the silly fluid clutch and replaced it with a cable
Quote from: fjfool on November 20, 2015, 07:15:52 AM
i would prefer a modification that did away with the silly fluid clutch and replaced it with a cable
Cable controls have more friction than hydraulic controls. Might make for a stiff clutch lever. But ignoring that, what would you suggest about the brakes? Go back to cable, like my old Honda CL350 with drum brakes? No thanks...
mmm, dont remember referring to the brakes in my post, i was talking about the clutch and the bullshit hydraulic system
ya know, 'cause cable clutches dont perform well
i guess Josh wouldnt know a proper clutch setup for his bike because it uses a cable
Quote from: CutterBill on November 19, 2015, 11:28:09 PM
How often do you flush the fluid?
Sadly, only a couple times. Put on stainless lines. It was my daily rider for almost 10 years.