My 1350 died on the way to work. Put in neutral and it started. Put it in gear it dies. .mess with the kickstand switch in neutral it dies. Took it home on the truck. Couple days later I couldn't get it to start in neutral kickstand up. Jumped the kickstand terminals with a wire starts right up. Cool problem solved... Put it in gear it dies. What am I missing. (Not just killing the motor cuts everything)
Help I'm terrible with electrical problems.
Dan, the symptoms you are describing are a bit wonky. But the issue seems to center on the side stand part of the safety system. I think the wires to the side stand may have an intermittent problem. With the clutch lever pulled back and the side stand down, putting it in gear will kill the ignition. If the side stand is up, then the bike still thinks the stand is down. Bypassing it works 100% if the wires are not damaged.
Errr, maybe more detail on "cuts everything".
Dan I'm with the Monkey on this one. I would have to look at all the items in the safety switch circuit. Neutral switch, clutch switch and swap the side stand relay out with another just to make sure that isn't the problem either. Dave
I agree that the sidestand switch circuit bears closer investigation.
Mine was also wonky. Sometimes it would work, sometimes die when droped in gear and sometimes just die when riding. All intermittently.
It died on me once when riding and i was stranded away from home. Nothing with me other than my phone and wallet. I whipped out the cheap set of pliers in the tool kit, snipped off the sidestand wires, twisted them together and rode home. Hasn't done any of the weird behaviour since.
Only thing is now i have to treat it like my older bikes and shut it off myself when stopping and remeber to pop the kick stand up before riding off.
If you want to try it and see if the switch is the problem but not cut the wires, just pop the connector open under the airbox horn and jump the pins/blades with a piece of wire. Even a paper clip will do. If it acts normally after jumping the wires, either replace the switch or make the jumper permanent....
Quote from: great white on October 06, 2015, 04:35:18 AM
If you want to try it and see if the switch is the problem but not cut the wires, just pop the connector open under the airbox horn and jump the pins/blades with a piece of wire. Even a paper clip will do. If it acts normally after jumping the wires, either replace the switch or make the jumper permanent....
I spoke with Dan last night and he did jump out the switch at the upper connector. And it still kills the ignition when shifting into gear. So the problem is not that simple. He will test the clutch switch since it is easy and then can be eliminated from the diagnostic. I am sure Dan will post up after work when he tests the clutch switch.
Quote from: TexasDave on October 06, 2015, 03:38:44 AM
Dan I'm with the Monkey on this one. I would have to look at all the items in the safety switch circuit. Neutral switch, clutch switch and swap the side stand relay out with another just to make sure that isn't the problem either. Dave
Hey Dave is there a relay for the side stand? Or are you talking about the switch itself?
Like Mark said I eliminated the switch. The problem is some where before the connector for the switch.
The side stand relay is small relay under the seat close to the digital ignitor. It has one black/white wire going to the ignitor and a black and blue/yellow wire to the sidestand switch and a red/white to the relay unit. Dave
i think there is a diode to "one way" some current in that system
also, try this:
blast the shit outa your sidestand switch with some carb cleaner
i experience this issue with a friend, it was uncanny- between 4300-4500RPM the vibration was just enough to cut that switch
after some research, i found that this is a fairly common issue
Quote from: fjfool on October 06, 2015, 07:46:43 AM
i think there is a diode to "one way" some current in that system
also, try this:
blast the shit outa your sidestand switch with some carb cleaner
i experience this issue with a friend, it was uncanny- between 4300-4500RPM the vibration was just enough to cut that switch
after some research, i found that this is a fairly common issue
Worth a try for sure.
But i did the same thing with mine a while back and recovered the sidestand switch function.
About 2 months later the problem came back so i just made a jumper plug out of the switch harness and no further problems since.
Insure do miss being able to shut the bike off by swinging out the kickstand though....:(
Quote from: TexasDave on October 06, 2015, 07:00:41 AM
The side stand relay is small relay under the seat close to the digital ignitor. It has one black/white wire going to the ignitor and a black and blue/yellow wire to the sidestand switch and a red/white to the relay unit. Dave
Thanks Dave. Will try that and check the clutch switch after work late tonight. 12hrs shift.
Sounds like my 89 when I bought it. The PO had if half disassembled trying to get it to run. He worked with industrial heating/cooling control systems. When I got the bike home and could see where he had probed the harness to troubleshoot I was pretty sure I was in deep trouble if he couldn't figure it out.
I ended up bypassing BOTH the sidestand switch and the clutch switch -- then was good to go. Stayed that way for 14 years or so until I rewired the entire bike.
This sounds like the clutch switch to me.
Normally, it will start in neutral without pulling in the clutch, but it will not start in gear unless you have the clutch pulled in.
If it is killing it as soon as you drop it in gear, it thinks you don't have the clutch pulled in?
If you already bypassed the side-stand switch, then it is most likely the clutch switch.
Quote from: Firehawk068 on October 06, 2015, 12:53:57 PM
This sounds like the clutch switch to me.
Normally, it will start in neutral without pulling in the clutch, but it will not start in gear unless you have the clutch pulled in.
If it is killing it as soon as you drop it in gear, it thinks you don't have the clutch pulled in?
If you already bypassed the side-stand switch, then it is most likely the clutch switch.
Yes but, it initially happened while riding down the highway. Killed the ignition. Already in gear already started... ??? But I'm going to start with that tonight.
Quote from: giantkiller on October 06, 2015, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: Firehawk068 on October 06, 2015, 12:53:57 PM
This sounds like the clutch switch to me.
Normally, it will start in neutral without pulling in the clutch, but it will not start in gear unless you have the clutch pulled in.
If it is killing it as soon as you drop it in gear, it thinks you don't have the clutch pulled in?
If you already bypassed the side-stand switch, then it is most likely the clutch switch.
Yes but, it initially happened while riding down the highway. Killed the ignition. Already in gear already started... ??? But I'm going to start with that tonight.
OK, that makes sense. Clutch safety switch only works with the crank/starter circuit, not with the ignition/running circuit?
Check your run/stop handlebar switch. That's a normally closed circuit (runs in the closed position)
That circuit that runs through the switch powers your ignition module.
Bypass this switch to see if it helps. Don't cut anything.
You can run power directly from your fuse block (via jumper wire) to the appropriate wire at the plug at the ignition module. Carefully skin back the insulation on the wire about 2" from the plug.. Easily reversible.
Dan,
PM sent
Well replaced everything with spares from the 87. Except for the resistor, and the diod. Still the same. Going to try the diod as soon as I get home. :unknown:
A couple shots in the dark here -
Have the neutral and/or oil level wires been pinched by the oil filter housing?
Bigger picture - when you say everything dies - does that mean all power to the bike? Or just to the ignition system? When this happens check voltage at the fuses with a volt meter to see what is getting power. Your statement that everything dies makes me wonder if you have an intermittent bad connection in the ignition switch?
The randomness and lack of consistency in how the problem presents makes me wonder if the sidestand/clutch/neutral are the cause, or are things you have tried while a different intermittent issue is still causing the real problem.
Try to go as logically as possible through the system. Check battery voltage - across the terminals, and then from the (+) to a good ground point on the engine. Then check power to the fuses - both key on and key off. Keep stepping through the system following the current flow until you find where it stops or acts up.
It can be a real PITA to track down electrical issues - especially one that is intermittent. Patience and a logical, thorough session with the volt meter should eventually find the issue.
Well I've replaced every component in the electrical system. With the ones of the crashed 87(865 miles on it) so pretty much brand new. And still kills it when I put it in gear. So I guess it's in the wiring itself. Going to step back from this. And work on some of my other projects for a while. Thanks to everyone for all your help. Man I hate electrical problems. :dash1: