Quote from: mark1969 on August 03, 2015, 09:40:56 AM
Don't worry mate, he assumes everyone (other than him) is stupid.
Mark, stupidity is a state of mind and has nothing to do with knowledge in any one particular area.
My doctor knows nothing about motor bikes but I don't think he's stupid, I know nothing about medicine, he doesn't think I'm stupid. I have a friend who's a rocket scientist (yes, for real) he knows nothing about bikes and I know nothing about rockets, neither of us thinks the other is stupid.
Most of us have a profession, trade, skill or job that we have spent much if not all of our working lives doing. It is reasonable that we know more about it than the guy who is not in that field (you would have to be stupid if you didn't)
We have all been given advice, many times over, from well meaning members that is below our skill level, because that skill level is unknown to them. The difference is, we take it the spirit in which it was offered and are grateful the forum is made up of so many people wanting to help.
Posts like yours, and a handful of others, drives the exchange of information underground, to PM's and email and deprives the forum community of information that could be of value to many, instead of just one.
Publicly denigrating someone, without provocation, is an ugly trait, tainting only the writer. We are all equal here (OK, some more equal than others) and you are free to say what you like but that doesn't mean it's always wise to do so. You not only do yourself a disservice, but no one actually cares what you personally think of another member.
I hate giving posts like this air but leaving them unchallenged seems to embolden people and there have been quite a few recently.
There are no stupid members, just stupid posts.
Noel
Ribbert are you butthurt again? I thought Aussies had thicker skin.
But you have no issue getting your under handed jab/dig/poke in when it suits you.
"Ok some more equal than others"
Time to look in the mirror and take to your own advice
Ha!
Personally, I *LOVE* being considered "stupid". It puts them at a disadvantage later on!
:dance2:
Steve
...of course, they _COULD_ be on to something! :dash2:
Quote from: copper on August 09, 2015, 11:03:16 AM
But you have no issue getting your under handed jab/dig/poke in when it suits you.
"Ok, some more equal than others"
Time to look in the mirror and take to your own advice
Sorry Copper, It was a joke. I thought the humour was obvious, depends on the bias of the reader I guess.
Noel
Quote from: the fan on August 09, 2015, 10:38:59 AM
Ribbert are you butthurt again? I thought Aussies had thicker skin.
Haha, no I'm not and yes we are. :good2:
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 09, 2015, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: mark1969 on August 03, 2015, 09:40:56 AM
Don't worry mate, he assumes everyone (other than him) is stupid.
Mark, stupidity is a state of mind and has nothing to do with knowledge in any one particular area.
My doctor knows nothing about motor bikes but I don't think he's stupid, I know nothing about medicine, he doesn't think I'm stupid. I have a friend who's a rocket scientist (yes, for real) he knows nothing about bikes and I know nothing about rockets, neither of us thinks the other is stupid.
Most of us have a profession, trade, skill or job that we have spent much if not all of our working lives doing. It is reasonable that we know more about it than the guy who is not in that field (you would have to be stupid if you didn't)
We have all been given advice, many times over, from well meaning members that is below our skill level, because that skill level is unknown to them. The difference is, we take it the spirit in which it was offered and are grateful the forum is made up of so many people wanting to help.
Posts like yours, and a handful of others, drives the exchange of information underground, to PM's and email and deprives the forum community of information that could be of value to many, instead of just one.
Publicly denigrating someone, without provocation, is an ugly trait, tainting only the writer. We are all equal here (OK, some more equal than others) and you are free to say what you like but that doesn't mean it's always wise to do so. You not only do yourself a disservice, but no one actually cares what you personally think of another member.
I hate giving posts like this air but leaving them unchallenged seems to embolden people and there have been quite a few recently.
There are no stupid members, just stupid posts.
Noel
Sadly, people will be deterred from posting and this forum will never know it.
That's life and especially forum life - survival of the fittest I guess.
I'm a fair minded guy and people make their own minds up.
Life is full of cliques and outsiders.
Guess I'm an outsider. :hi:
Quote from: copper on August 09, 2015, 11:03:16 AM
But you have no issue getting your under handed jab/dig/poke in when it suits you.
"Ok some more equal than others"
Time to look in the mirror and take to your own advice
Copper:
PM sent.
FJ1100mjk I dont see a PM
Quote from: mark1969 on August 10, 2015, 05:21:57 AM
Quote from: ribbert on August 09, 2015, 09:58:40 AM
Quote from: mark1969 on August 03, 2015, 09:40:56 AM
Don't worry mate, he assumes everyone (other than him) is stupid.
Mark, stupidity is a state of mind and has nothing to do with knowledge in any one particular area.
My doctor knows nothing about motor bikes but I don't think he's stupid, I know nothing about medicine, he doesn't think I'm stupid. I have a friend who's a rocket scientist (yes, for real) he knows nothing about bikes and I know nothing about rockets, neither of us thinks the other is stupid.
Most of us have a profession, trade, skill or job that we have spent much if not all of our working lives doing. It is reasonable that we know more about it than the guy who is not in that field (you would have to be stupid if you didn't)
We have all been given advice, many times over, from well meaning members that is below our skill level, because that skill level is unknown to them. The difference is, we take it the spirit in which it was offered and are grateful the forum is made up of so many people wanting to help.
Posts like yours, and a handful of others, drives the exchange of information underground, to PM's and email and deprives the forum community of information that could be of value to many, instead of just one.
Publicly denigrating someone, without provocation, is an ugly trait, tainting only the writer. We are all equal here (OK, some more equal than others) and you are free to say what you like but that doesn't mean it's always wise to do so. You not only do yourself a disservice, but no one actually cares what you personally think of another member.
I hate giving posts like this air but leaving them unchallenged seems to embolden people and there have been quite a few recently.
There are no stupid members, just stupid posts.
Noel
Sadly, people will be deterred from posting and this forum will never know it.
That's life and especially forum life - survival of the fittest I guess.
I'm a fair minded guy and people make their own minds up.
Life is full of cliques and outsiders.
Guess I'm an outsider. :hi:
Sadly this is already occurring. It only takes a few "strong personality" types asserting their "right to be heard" on a forum like this to make a lot of people decide to not "listen" anymore.
Although the intent may be well and trying to make sure people only get good info -- it's counter productive if fewer people drop in here to get any info at all.
Sadly now I have become a lurker (and not much of one). I pass by this forum and skim the latest posts of which I read very few. It took sometime for me to just open this thread. I use the forum as a achieve of information and rarely post anymore as that is fort with some danger..Seems to be the nature of the beast..
G'day all..
I think every forum gets issues like this now and again, and I believe it is an unfortunate side affect of not being able to see the person you are talking to.
If we were having a conversation in a pub, (for you American readers, "bar") :yes: you would be amazed at the sort of language that gets tossed around, with neither person taking it personally. (until everyone gets drunk)
I think that is why "emoticons" were invented, to add something onto what we say to ensure there is no misunderstanding, fool. :good2:
I guess at the end of the day, because we cannot see a person's face, we have to either take some questions/suggestions or "posts" with a grain of salt, or we take enormous pains to not offend anyone.
Or just go nuts with emoticons!?!
:sarcastic: :dash2: :diablo: :bomb: :shout:
(popcorn)
cheers, Gareth
Quote from: mr blackstock on August 10, 2015, 04:07:06 PM
G'day all..
I think every forum gets issues like this now and again, and I believe it is an unfortunate side affect of not being able to see the person you are talking to.
If we were having a conversation in a pub, (for you American readers, "bar") :yes: you would be amazed at the sort of language that gets tossed around, with neither person taking it personally. (until everyone gets drunk)
I think that is why "emoticons" were invented, to add something onto what we say to ensure there is no misunderstanding, fool. :good2:
I guess at the end of the day, because we cannot see a person's face, we have to either take some questions/suggestions or "posts" with a grain of salt, or we take enormous pains to not offend anyone.
Or just go nuts with emoticons!?!
:sarcastic: :dash2: :diablo: :bomb: :shout:
(popcorn)
cheers, Gareth
Gareth - I largely agree with you on this and have worked all my life in groups that required you to put on the rhino skin -- but I think there is also some responsibility to be "situationally aware of your surroundings" too.
Although I can be a really effective overbearing asshole when the situation warrants, it doesn't mean I should be that way anytime that I can be. But if I choose to anyway, it shouldn't surprise me when people get tired of dealing with me and just go away.
Quote from: ribbert on August 09, 2015, 09:30:08 PM
Sorry Copper, It was a joke. I thought the humour was obvious, depends on the bias of the reader I guess.
:negative: Nope not obvious to me and I only pulled the most glaring jab from your original post :negative: I guess I have never read any of your posts as being humorous or jovial so hopefully you can understand my confusion :scratch_one-s_head: so as already recommended by others next time you are joking use some emoticons so we can all stop trying to figure you out :dash1: :crazy: :dash2: :nea: :mad: :ireful: :diablo:
:bomb:
You don't need Rhino Skin, the only people that can cause genuine hurt are the ones you love and or trust. The rest is noise. I simply chose to not respond to the hateful provocateurs, after all, they want to see if they can push your buttons and make you respond. Let the hate roll off like water off a duck's back and focus on the interesting posts... But keep the banter and shit stirring up, we need the entertainment.... :good2:
Quote from: fj1289 on August 10, 2015, 12:50:10 PM
Sadly this is already occurring. It only takes a few "strong personality" types asserting their "right to be heard" on a forum like this to make a lot of people decide to not "listen" anymore.
Although the intent may be well and trying to make sure people only get good info -- it's counter productive if fewer people drop in here to get any info at all.
Exactly.
Some people just decide it's not worth it to contribute anymore.
Quote from: copper on August 10, 2015, 04:42:51 PM
Quote from: ribbert on August 09, 2015, 09:30:08 PM
Sorry Copper, It was a joke. I thought the humour was obvious, depends on the bias of the reader I guess.
:negative: Nope not obvious to me and I only pulled the most glaring jab from your original post :negative: I guess I have never read any of your posts as being humorous or jovial so hopefully you can understand my confusion :scratch_one-s_head: so as already recommended by others next time you are joking use some emoticons so we can all stop trying to figure you out :dash1: :crazy: :dash2: :nea: :mad: :ireful: :diablo:
:bomb:
I've found Noel to be quite the prick as well (documented here, but you'll need to find it), so please take this in the best possible way (you too Noel). He's contributed some good stuff, but generally comes across as awash in his own bullshit. Take that for what it is and he's not so bad. He's got a valid perspective and isn't an idiot, although he's an abrasive bloke at times for sure.
He's acknowledged my discomfort for our interactions and uses disclaimers when asserting his opinion (thanks Noel!). I've stepped off the soapbox and watched his contributions. On balance you get nice ride reports, some decent mechanical advice at times, some complete BS, and other stuff to generally take offense at if that's what you're after... or you can swim by the hook. I've come to appreciate what I like and let other stuff go by.
Speaking of which... done here.
Frank
Must agree with Frank. Noel has tried to rope me with his crap too. I chose not to reply. It isn't worth it.
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 10, 2015, 04:43:44 PM
You don't need Rhino Skin, the only people that can cause genuine hurt are the ones you love and or trust. The rest is noise. I simply chose to not respond to the hateful provocateurs, after all, they want to see if they can push your buttons and make you respond. Let the hate roll off like water off a duck's back and focus on the interesting posts... But keep the banter and shit stirring up, we need the entertainment.... :good2:
Well put Mark, and I would add "respect" ( to love and trust)
I for the most part do not respond to those posts either, but isn't ignoring them a form of endorsement that it's OK to sling off personally at other members?
There again, from today's posts, no one seems to have a problem with it. If that's the case, so be it. My biggest mistake appears to have been thinking others would find it offensive too.
Noel
Quote from: Flynt on August 10, 2015, 08:43:02 PM
I've found Noel to be quite the prick as well........but generally comes across as awash in his own bullshit.
Frank
Don't hold back Frank. :sarcastic:
It was probably unintentional, but your opening line made me laugh, "Noel, you're a prick.... in the best possible way" It was the first thing I read over breakfast.
Frank, I've always had the greatest respect for you and Dan Filetti as thinkers, regardless of your criticisms, the respect remained, that is of course unless "prick" has the same connotation over there as it does here. :biggrin: in which case, forget it. (joke)
BTW, have you ever held rank in the services?
Noel
Quote from: fj johnnie on August 10, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Must agree with Frank. Noel has tried to rope me with his crap too. I chose not to reply. It isn't worth it.
Below is a verbatim extract from a PM I sent a couple of days back pointing out the destructive and divisive effect these posts have on the forum.
These "personal opinion pieces" go in cycles. One guy says something, someone always adds to it, a few others suddenly find courage in numbers and join in, next thing the new guy who has no idea what's going on jumps on the wagon, people start saying things they will regret, sides are taken, it gets personal and so on. Then there's the PM's......
There is also a couple of serial pests that never miss an opportunity to add to someone's comments and that's where the rot sets in.Almost a script for what happened isn't it? (except the serial pest is MIA)
"Last drinks gentlemen" anyone else want to have a go before consigning this cancerous thread to the garbage, this is your last chance. C'mon, get it off your chest.
No need to talk about me like I'm not in the room either as everyone seems to be doing.
It has often been commented on that even the most protracted and heated technical discussions here have always been conducted with respect between parties and without resorting to discrediting participants.
IMO, the only fallouts come from members using the public forum to personally attack other members, misunderstood humour and, as Gareth so rightly pointed out, misinterpretation of harmless posts where the reader is not reading what the writer wrote. Benefit of the doubt should be applied where doubt exists, and that unfortunately relies on the readers perception of the writer.
As far as the suggestion people won't post, don't read, won't participate or whatever, because of "this" whatever "this" is, I don't buy it. 99% of the time the forum just rolls along like any other forum made up of 4000 different people.
To me the solution is simple, if people stopped slinging off at other members, there would be no disharmony.
Perhaps I should just do a David Raforth?
Anyway, that's the last word from me on this subject.
Prick
Yeah!
Just wait until we're all at a RALLY together! :drinks:
NOTHING beats wrenching, riding and drinking together in person! ( You think you hate me NOW?)
We're not up to CraigsList standards, yet. ( http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/5042513639.html (http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/5042513639.html) or http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/5121878956.html (http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/5121878956.html) )
Love you. Mean it. Don't make me PROVE it.
Steve
Don't make me stop this car and come back there!! Seriously, I look on this forum as one big family. Nearly always fun, sometimes squabbles, usually good support, interesting siblings, and, in the crunch time, someone is always ready to go the extra mile, or kilometer, to aid, defend, help one of our own. Anytime there is more than person in a conversation there will be some misunderstanding or difference of opinion at some point. But mostly we do get on.. Carry on, gentlemen, carry on. :good2:
Quote from: fj johnnie on August 10, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Must agree with Frank. Noel has tried to rope me with his crap too. I chose not to reply. It isn't worth it.
Better than him trying to rape you with his crop I guess.
Good one Klavdy. Bwaaa haaaa haaaa. :yahoo: