A little background: I broke my right wrist a long time ago. My problem is I can't hold the throttle very long without my hand going numb. About 10 mins tops. Throttle locks are all well and good and they do let me "shake it out" to prolong riding time, but don't do much for you on up or down hill grades.
I was looking at my 89 FJ12 and noticed it's got a funny little blanking plate right in the middle.
Oddly enough, it looks just like the slot on my Yamaha venture cruise control throttle housing. Actually, the entire housing looks pretty much the same. would probably even swap if I cared to try.
That got me wondering if it would be possible to retrofit the Yamaha VentureCruise system on an FJ. It's all pretty self contained, all it needs is power and a speed sensor signal.
I've got pretty much a complete 1985 spare system in the parts loft From a venture I scrapped this year.
The throttle cables even look like they would work.
There's a vacuum pump and pot to hide, but the FJ12 has a big enough fairing to get it in there (easily).
Just spitballin' at this time, but has anyone else done anything similar?
My Venture has lots o' torque to pull a cruise system, the FJ has at least as much.
An electronic cruise seems like such a good match for a bike like the FJ12 that's billed as a "sports tourer".....
:scratch_one-s_head:
That sounds like it is worth the attempt. Considering you have most of the system already. I don't have as much difficulty with my wrist but I use a Cramp Buster for the longer hauls on the slab. I use the narrow one as it allows me full access to the grip by shifting my hand inward. Then when I want my hand to rest and hold the throttle I shift it out. I got mine from Randy at RPM. It works really well with both normal and foam grips. If you get the cruse control to work then please post it for the benefit of others.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACrampbusterN (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ACrampbusterN)
(http://www.rpmracingca.com/prodimages/large/M%20C%20CrampbusterN-1.jpg)
There is or at least was an Electronic Cruise Control for the FJ. It was an aftermarket car unit that was slightly modified IIRC. I'll take a look through my saved files and see if I can find it and post to the list.
This was on the old netpath/mica list many years ago.
One of the other fossils here will probably remember too.
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on August 06, 2015, 10:30:15 AM
There is or at least was an Electronic Cruise Control for the FJ. It was an aftermarket car unit that was slightly modified IIRC. I'll take a look through my saved files and see if I can find it and post to the list.
This was on the old netpath/mica list many years ago.
One of the other fossils here will probably remember too.
Arnie
I also remember reading about a crowd that makes motorbike specific units.
FJSpringy in Sydney has proper bike cruise fitted to his FJ
Noel
BTDT. Bottom line is it didn't work. There was no way to minimize the sensitivity of the cruise control to safely modulate the throttle of the FJ. Minor speed drops would WHACK the throttle, almost tossing me and the wife of the bike. the only possible solution I could think of was to use a 'gear reduction' set of pulleys to minimize the throttle actions, more trouble than I was willing to go through. I still have the setup, if your interested!
1
Here is mine.
http://home.mysoul.com.au/rover/page05.htm (http://home.mysoul.com.au/rover/page05.htm)
Heres a pic of what got me thinking about the venture cruise swap:
(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/C46BDA5C-F638-4021-8BA3-84FBEF829324_zpsfbhd5mzc.jpg)
Suspiciously similar, no?
:)
I've really come to like the Throttlemeister that came on my FJ when I bought it. Does a pretty good job of holding the throttle for a good length of time, giving you a chance to rest your right hand. Obviously it doesn't hold speed going up hill and allows you to go faster down hill.
For a real cruise control, here's a setup on eBay that's advertised to work well on bikes. Might be a lot easier to install this than try to retrofit the Venture cruise (although having that OE look would be a bonus!).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rostra-250-1223-Universal-Cruise-Control-Kit-with-250-3593-Dash-Mount-Control-/260987064062?hash=item3cc40a8efe (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rostra-250-1223-Universal-Cruise-Control-Kit-with-250-3593-Dash-Mount-Control-/260987064062?hash=item3cc40a8efe)
Good luck on that one, I have one available if you want to experiment.
Ed
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rostra-250-1223-Universal-Cruise-Control-Kit-with-250-3593-Dash-Mount-Control-/260987064062?hash=item3cc40a8efe (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rostra-250-1223-Universal-Cruise-Control-Kit-with-250-3593-Dash-Mount-Control-/260987064062?hash=item3cc40a8efe)
Nah, not going aftermarket. I'd just do a throttle lock for 30-40 bucks first.
I'm just intrigued by the venture cruise and the similarities in the throttle cables and bar controls.
I've gone through whats needed to do the swap on my Venture to an 86+ cruise control (has accel/coast/resume vice the 83-85 on/set/off)and the Yamaha system is actually pretty simple.
The 83-85 venture cruise isn't much more than an electronic/vacuum throttle lock, except that it maintains speed for wind and hill loads.Not accel/decel/resume functions.
The only real hangup I see is the throttle cable and the speed signal.
As can be seen here:
(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/venture%20cruise_zpswg1wg855.jpg) (http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/justonepict/media/venture%20cruise_zpswg1wg855.jpg.html)
It really is simple. I gave all the components so why not give it a go?
The switches and throttle quad are easy peasy. Looks like a direct swap. The boxes, pump, dump valve and vacuum actuator are a simple weld a few brackets on in the right places and bob's yer uncle.
I don't have the wiring harness, but that's not a big deal. I'll just go with weatherpak connectors and make my own disconnects.
The brake and clutch switches are dual channel on the Venture cruise (ie: switches have 4 wires vice 2) but htat is easily handled with a couple relays triggered off the FJ's 2 wire switches.
The big question is the speed sensor and the throttle cables.
I think the speed sensor might not be a problem, as the FJ has what looks like the same sensor on the back of the speedo as the Venture. Visible here on the FJ cluster:
(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/109d6dbc-8ac1-4de9-af89-3c0e10c5f40d_zps1kmo0etv.jpg)
Need to dig deeper on that one though. The FJ service manual calls it a reed switch and the Venture manual calls it a speedo sensor. Even if the sensors are sinilar, if one is putting out a diffeerent PPM (pulse per mile) thant the other one, the cruise is going to be all messed up.Not so much the maintaining speed (it just looks for change) but it only activates between 50-130 KPH. If it thinks the bike is doing less/more than that whem you try to switch it on, it's not going to work.
The throttle cable for the venture will obviously be too long to the handle bars, but the lower portion from the splitter might work fine as is. They even habve the same bend down to the carb linkage. I might be able to use the short FJ splitter to handle bar cable portions with the venture lowers. You can see the differences here.
FJ:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU3N1gxNjAw/$T2eC16Z,!yEE9s5jGKDiBQk22W(r!w~~60_57.JPG)
Venture:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMlgxNjAw/z/1jQAAOxyNo9Ss8AJ/$_57.JPG)
I may get lucky and the cable from the venture fit the FJ as is, but I doubt it. They are most likely just too long.
Even so, the junction box in the Venture cable comes apart and there's a wheel assembly in there that joins them all together and makes it work. If the FJ cables don't work with it, I'm sure there's a set of cables out there that are the right length. I've just got to find them.
This is all concept stage at this point. I'd like to work on the FJ this winter, but most of the off months (and money) will be eaten up by the Venture project. Amongst other things, it's getting VMax heads and cams, a 2002 Venture star transmission, VMax rear differential, etc. Basically, I'm building a VMax inside a Venture touring bike. Should be a fun ride....
:)
Keep posting and keep up the work...
Quote:
"The FJ service manual calls it a reed switch and the Venture manual calls it a speedo sensor."
I'm pretty sure the reed switch is to do with the speed restriction as present on Domestic Japanese models. I've seen a picture somewhere that those 2 wires coming from the back of such models do in fact connect to a reed switch at the back of the speedo and go to the igniter to cut the spark.
Maybe a swap to the whole Venture speedo will do the trick for cruise control using that gear.
I may be completely wrong too!
Harvy
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal. I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal. I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George
makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...
Quote from: Harvy on August 06, 2015, 08:09:53 PM
Quote:
"The FJ service manual calls it a reed switch and the Venture manual calls it a speedo sensor."
I'm pretty sure the reed switch is to do with the speed restriction as present on Domestic Japanese models. I've seen a picture somewhere that those 2 wires coming from the back of such models do in fact connect to a reed switch at the back of the speedo and go to the igniter to cut the spark.
Maybe a swap to the whole Venture speedo will do the trick for cruise control using that gear.
I may be completely wrong too!
Harvy
Swapping the speedo could be a possibility. I do have a couple on hand. But I would prefer to stay with the FJ gauge if possible. I won't really know until I get the FJ apart this winter....
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal. I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George
makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...
On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch. The distance is about 490 feet ? (150 meters ?)
at slow speed but if above a certain speed the time component will kick in at 10 seconds to cancel. The switch has something to do with the controlling of those factors.
George
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal. I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George
makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...
On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch it think.
George
The reed switch is cycled by a magnet in the speedometer. It signals the cancelling system after a number of revolutions thus the distance. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on August 06, 2015, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal. I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George
makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...
On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch it think.
George
The reed switch is cycled by a magnet in the speedometer. It signals the cancelling system after a number of revolutions thus the distance. Dave
Thanks Dave :good2:.
George
Quote from: TexasDave on August 06, 2015, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal. I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George
makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...
On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch it think.
George
The reed switch is cycled by a magnet in the speedometer. It signals the cancelling system after a number of revolutions thus the distance. Dave
Makes sense.
Perhaps it might be the same "sensor" or maybe the Venture is a "dual purpose" sensor, although i doubt that as a speed sensor is usually just a magnet and gear ring.
If they are different, maybe its swappable from Venture cluster to FJ. They sure look to be the same footprint on the back of the guages...
The Venture also had self canceling turn signals, so it makes sense that it would be similar.
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:03:43 PM
aa speed sensor is usually just a magnet and gear ring.
The speedo is a magnetically coupled instrument... having a reed switch in the housing would give you a speed signal for cruise. No chains or gears required.
Frank
Quote from: Flynt on August 06, 2015, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:03:43 PM
aa speed sensor is usually just a magnet and gear ring.
The speedo is a magnetically coupled instrument... having a reed switch in the housing would give you a speed signal for cruise. No chains or gears required.
Frank
Yup, perhaps i just wasn't descriptive enough in my response.
Most speed sensors consist of a ring with gaps on it and a magnetic sensor that reacts to the teeth/ gap change in the magnetic field as they pass. There is no physical coupling or contact.
That's modern sensors, the fj/Venture is probably similar, bit a bit more primitive.
A Reed switch would actually be the opposite construction of modern speed sensors where the magnet would be rotating and the Reed switch would be performing the function of the toothed ring. A modern sensor, in theory, should be more reliable as there would be no moving parts. Withna reed switch, the little metal piece inside isnflopping backa nd forth in response to the magneic feild. But my Venture is 30 odd years old and still cancelling turns signals fine so....
I've calibrated a couple motorcycle speedos before, but they were even older than the fj/venture ones.I'll see what I see once I get the clusters apart.
Im just hoping the reed switch signal is compatible with the VentureCruise "brain". But with Yamaha being pretty much a " parts bin builder" I'm betting its compatible, if not the same. They're both two wire parts and even the wire colors are the same.
I think maybe we're saying the same thing, just in different ways.
:)
AHA!
I have discovered why the two handlebar switch assemblies look so similar.
Apparently some countries received models that the light could be turned on/off and just tail and meter lights:
(http://www.motorsloop.com/images/yamaha/MH06TJFJ1200%283CV%2912.JPG)
Maybe South America or Europe? Pretty sure this sis all NA got:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/64wAAOxycmBS6XRO/$_57.JPG)
They even used the Venture style LH switch assembly to incorporate a "flash to pass" option. They used the same housing and what would be the "PTT" (push to talk) was labeled the "pass" switch. You can see it here:
(http://www.fj1200.info/IMAGENES/Cosmetics/caps.JPG)
Yup, same as my venture switch, labelled differently and without the venture choke lever.
Ah yammy, such a parts bin company.
Luckily, it makes is super easy to swap parts too!
:)
Did a little bit of work on it today. Mainly, just did the handlebar switch and wiring.
First thing I did though was run up to the Bay of Fundy to a little place I know for a nice hearty breakfast by the water:
(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/94B7D756-3A58-45C4-B859-57F94E3B8DC5_zpsqfdor88y.jpg)
(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/1118a908-bacf-4d73-90cd-ba3fb5b47731_zpsh9sgsvzb.jpg)
Belly full and fast rid back down the mountain to the valley. I tore the bike apart.
I would like to say it was just drop the venture throttle housing on, but it wasn't quite that simple. Seems there were a few connector changes between 85 and 89. The venture throttle was not a plug in deal.
I blew both housings apart. The basic castings had the same part numbers, and the switches were same same. But i had to strip the FJ switches and wiring and transfer them over to the venture housing in order to use the venture cruise switches.
Then I had to pull all the pins out of the FJ connector and pull the sleeve off the wiring harness.
With that all done, I had to splice (soldered and heat shrink-ed) the power feed for the cruise to the keyed power wire for the "on/off" switch. It is done the same way on the venture, so I'm not re-inventing the wheel here.
Then it was try to get all that loose wiring back in to the OEM FJ wire sleeve. I ended up using a long length of 20 thou safety wire to pull the wires back and forth through the sleeve.
Finally, it was throttle cables and bolt it back on to the bar.
The finished product looks pretty simple, even if it took me a couple hours to sort it:
(http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r618/justonepict/5AABE3C0-7054-4CF3-9D6A-35F2662C16C6_zpsrxe8h13n.jpg)
While I was into the guts of it, I cleaned and lubricated all the switch contacts and pivots. Works like new.
I also cleaned the buttons and repainted the letters and indicators with white paint.
I had a look a the throttle arrangement. It's going to be a bit of a problem.
The junction box isn't the problem, it's the cables.
The stock FJ cables are too short at the the FJ coupler to work with the Venture cruise junction and the venture cables are far too long and don't have the right ends on the sheaths.
So I'm kind stumped. I think I can use the stock FJ cable sheaths, as they line up nicely with the Venture cruise box. I can probably pick up a knackered old set cheaply somewhere. I may end up having to make my own cable innards though.
I haven't cast lead in quite a while, but I may have to brush up on those skills.....
There are places will make up new, near frictionless cables to your own specs for not much money.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on August 08, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
There are places will make up new, near frictionless cables to your own specs for not much money.
Noel
I wish there was in Nova Scotia, but I know of none.
Shipping is killer from anywhere to here....
Check your local HD dealer, especially if they've been in business for a while.
Harley's are frequently "customized" and need one-0rf custom cables.
If they can't do the job, ask them who can.
Arnie
Quote from: Arnie on August 09, 2015, 02:15:59 AM
Check your local HD dealer, especially if they've been in business for a while.
Harley's are frequently "customized" and need one-0rf custom cables.
If they can't do the job, ask them who can.
Arnie
I'll give it a try, but they're all just resellers around here. Dealerships come and go as cusrom harelys are not a big selling item around these parts.
It's mostly just "buy a stock one, drop lots of chrome and straight pipes on it and ride around with your dentisist and lawyer friends dressed like a bad ass" crowd....
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:50:35 AM
I broke my right wrist a long time ago. My problem is I can't hold the throttle very long without my hand going numb....
If you are succesful with this mod, you could make a sideline out of doing this. And I would be your first customer! :good2: I have a similar problem. From my last big off in '97, the last thing to let go were my hands from my death grip as I did the 1 1/2 somersault with the 1/2 twist over the car (score: 8.7 - got screwed by the Russian judge as usual). As a result I pulled all the ligaments and tendons from my fingertips to my elbows. Since then numbness, pain, and grip level has been a constant issue. The cramp busters help a bit but not enough for the long trips.
I would gladly ride the 1,500 km to Nova Scotia (via the US cuz upper NY, VT, & MA is wonderful biking country) to get this done.
Just a thought.... :pardon:
Quote from: PaulG on August 11, 2015, 09:56:53 AM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:50:35 AM
I broke my right wrist a long time ago. My problem is I can't hold the throttle very long without my hand going numb....
If you are succesful with this mod, you could make a sideline out of doing this. And I would be your first customer! :good2: I have a similar problem. From my last big off in '97, the last thing to let go were my hands from my death grip as I did the 1 1/2 somersault with the 1/2 twist over the car (score: 8.7 - got screwed by the Russian judge as usual). As a result I pulled all the ligaments and tendons from my fingertips to my elbows. Since then numbness, pain, and grip level has been a constant issue. The cramp busters help a bit but not enough for the long trips.
I would gladly ride the 1,500 km to Nova Scotia (via the US cuz upper NY, VT, & MA is wonderful biking country) to get this done.
Just a thought.... :pardon:
Nah, I've got a full time job and there would be no money in this. Only way it would work is if a fella had a wrecking yard full of 83-91 Yamaha ventures.
Even then, you'd be lucky to do one or two a year.
I'm willing to bet most of the components are also either discontinued or priced ridiculously high. Good thing is they are usually simpe to fix (diaphragm here and vacuum pot there) and the electronics are mostly solid state (ie: very robust and very often, fixable when burned out). They're also usually low usage items even if the bike is old or high miles so they're in recent shape (unless the bike is left outside or neglected).
But, anyone could duplicate what I'm doing. It's actually fairly simple electronically. It's just reading diagrams and running wires.
Hardest part here is going to be making cables and that's not as hard as it sounds.
It's probably simpler to use the 86-93 Venture cruise and the vacuum pump and dump valve are one assembly vice the two pieces on the 83-85. You would also get accel/resume/decel instead of just SET on the 83-85.
I'm fine with just a SET selection on my fj. Does all I need and more.
I won't be posting in this thread any further gents.
For simplicities sake (ie: mine) I will continue on in my "build thread": http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14391.msg145259#msg145259 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14391.msg145259#msg145259)
Cheers