Wondering how well the stocker does on a big bore,or higher compression engines..... and, is there an upgrade? thanks
Quote from: turbocamino on July 23, 2015, 08:29:30 AM
Wondering how well the stocker does on a big bore,or higher compression engines..... and, is there an upgrade? thanks
Yes, there is a guy that rewinds them for drag bikes. Try the search function...
Quote from: turbocamino on July 23, 2015, 08:29:30 AM
Wondering how well the stocker does on a big bore,or higher compression engines..... and, is there an upgrade? thanks
Call Paul Casio 504 393 2260. A good man to deal with.
Quote from: JMR on July 23, 2015, 08:58:03 AM
Quote from: turbocamino on July 23, 2015, 08:29:30 AM
Wondering how well the stocker does on a big bore,or higher compression engines..... and, is there an upgrade? thanks
Call Paul Casio 504 393 2260. A good man to deal with.
The Paul Casuo rewind is an amazing starter -- BUT, just 2 things you have to remember with it -- you can't try to use it with a low battery and you can't keep it spinning like for a compression check or if you are having starting issues or you will burn it up.
Another option is the 4 magnet starter off the XJR (RPM carries them).
Chris
Simi Ed has had hot start troubles with his big bore engine....even with a 4 brush starter.
So, being the clever guy he is, he hooked up some relays to a 2nd small lithium battery, and now he has a 24 volt starting system.
24V starter, spins like nobody's business! :drinks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmP0pgJYKVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmP0pgJYKVg)
2 great options...outstanding!..you guys are the best. thanks a million.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 23, 2015, 11:10:26 AM
Simi Ed has had hot start troubles with his big bore engine....even with a 4 brush starter.
So, being the clever guy he is, he hooked up some relays to a 2nd small lithium battery, and now he has a 24 volt starting system.
Just out of interest, Is he applying 24v to the old 12v starter, no other modifications?
Magnus
Yes, that is my understanding. It is a 4 brush XJR starter.
Stay tuned.
Ed will give us the details in the next couple of days.
I'm running the later 4 brush starter. BTW, when I spoke with Paul Cashio last year he told me he can only rewire the original 2 brush starter. I figured that if I toasted the 4 brush starter I could always send my original to Paul for a rebuild.
Anyway, 2 lithium batteries, a bank of relays, some wiring and your FJ will crank at 800-1,000 rpm like mine does.
Details to follow ...
Quote from: IceFJ on July 23, 2015, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 23, 2015, 11:10:26 AM
Simi Ed has had hot start troubles with his big bore engine....even with a 4 brush starter.
So, being the clever guy he is, he hooked up some relays to a 2nd small lithium battery, and now he has a 24 volt starting system.
Just out of interest, Is he applying 24v to the old 12v starter, no other modifications?
Magnus
It is much better to run higher voltage through an electric motor than low voltage. Obviously too many bolts through it will kill it, but most 12 volt starters will do fine on 24. Running any starter on low voltage is worse and creates a ton of heat in the windings and will burn one out - in short order if you constantly grind on it due to starting issues
Quote from: simi_ed on July 23, 2015, 03:59:33 PM
I'm running the later 4 brush starter. BTW, when I spoke with Paul Cashio last year he told me he can only rewire the original 2 brush starter. I figured that if I toasted the 4 brush starter I could always send my original to Paul for a rebuild.
Anyway, 2 lithium batteries, a bank of relays, some wiring and your FJ will crank at 800-1,000 rpm like mine does.
Edit: The bike runs on 12V, but starts on 24V.
Details to follow ...
Quote from: simi_ed on July 23, 2015, 03:59:33 PM
I'm running the later 4 brush starter. BTW, when I spoke with Paul Cashio last year he told me he can only rewire the original 2 brush starter. I figured that if I toasted the 4 brush starter I could always send my original to Paul for a rebuild.
Anyway, 2 lithium batteries, a bank of relays, some wiring and your FJ will crank at 800-1,000 rpm like mine does.
Details to follow ...
Sub'd for details...
:)
Maybe this can help somebody http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/Descriptions/TBB-1324auto-harness.html (http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/Descriptions/TBB-1324auto-harness.html) Makes things a bit easier if you go the 2 battery route
Quote from: fj1289 on July 23, 2015, 04:42:20 PM
Quote from: IceFJ on July 23, 2015, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 23, 2015, 11:10:26 AM
Simi Ed has had hot start troubles with his big bore engine....even with a 4 brush starter.
So, being the clever guy he is, he hooked up some relays to a 2nd small lithium battery, and now he has a 24 volt starting system.
Just out of interest, Is he applying 24v to the old 12v starter, no other modifications?
Magnus
It is much better to run higher voltage through an electric motor than low voltage. Obviously too many bolts through it will kill it, but most 12 volt starters will do fine on 24. Running any starter on low voltage is worse and creates a ton of heat in the windings and will burn one out - in short order if you constantly grind on it due to starting issues
Leaving aside the wisdom or necessity of this mod, as mentioned, the high voltage in typical use should not be a problem but the mechanical engagement of the starter motor with the engine could be.
The components were not engineered for that sort of load or speed. It was common practice on 6V cars for many years where the pinion connects directly to the crank and all the parts, including the motor itself and the housing it bolts into were much more robust, even then, there were failures.
Increasing the speed, the torque and the load (compression and capacity) is a triple whammy.
Depending on the type of vehicle, sometimes you get away with it and sometimes you don't. I have experienced both, never on an FJ though.
The fact that someone has done it and not had problems to date is not necessarily proof of it's success, but then again, it might be!
Just something to consider.
Noel
You mean like this?
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/171_24_07_15_9_45_03.jpeg)
To be honest, the 24 volt start system wasn't the CAUSE was of this ... but did make it possible. The cause was a bad ignition setting in a new ECU, but instead of allowing the engine to stall or kick back, the starter had enough power to "force the issue". This was the next weak link in the chain...
Funny how first generation Hayabusa's would break the upper case by kicking back if voltage was to low.
With all of this talk about starters, I wanted to pass along a few things I have discovered recently. I was buying my starters from a supplier than was buying from Japan. They were an aftermarket starter, but I was always happy with the quality and never had one problem. Well, a couple of years ago when the starters came in they were all black instead of the original looking finish. I took one apart and it still looked good inside, so I sold them and until just recently had my first problem. Based on my conversations with Ben, it was probably a manufacturing defect right from the start; http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13982.msg142338#msg142338 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13982.msg142338#msg142338)
The last batch arrived early 2014 and again they were black, but the cast end housings did not look very good and when I took the end caps off I wasn't happy with the quality. I wasn't happy with a brush plate as is was uncoated and would likely rust and instead of metal thrust washers they had fibre washers. The final kicker was the little sticker placed on the bottom of the unit that said..."made in Taiwan".
Those starter were returned and I have not offered a starter since then. Well, based on this experience I have placed an order through Yamaha for the Yamaha supplied Mitsuba starters to make sure there is quality starter available to you. I understand you can buy Chinese knock-off starters on eBay for cheap right now. But after Ben's issue and seeing the lower quality of the offshore starter motor on a long road trip you will be very unhappy when the eBay starter has left you stranded on the side of the road.
I will offer you this as well, if you have or are contemplating doing the 24v starter route, you should make sure you have the best starter in place to handle the task.
The genuine Yamaha starters are scheduled to be here mid to late August.
Randy - RPM