Hello Fellow FJ'ers,
I need to replace my fork seals after a small accident. She didn't know how to use her passenger side view mirror, or so it surely seemed, go figure?
Anyway, I seem to remember David R engineering some sort of home made tool to help in disassembly/reassembly (may have been on the yahoo site, memory fading fast ;)).
I have a small welder if needed to manufacture the tool, though I suck at welding, thank god I'm good at grinding, probably because I suck at welding. ;)
I have a liter of Motul synthetic 10 wt and picked up a seal and wiper kit from Randy. I've never done this before, but I believe I need a special tool to take the fork tubes apart, and that's all? If not, please advise.
I'm also going to wire brush and clear coat the lowers while replacing the seals, any reccomendations on non yellowing, long lasting clear coat?).
While at it, I've picked up the All Balls head bearing kit from RPM as well. The original set is a little sloppy, I live in pot-hole city these days, (God I really miss those california roads of old, smooth as a babies bottom). Any pointers? I was thinking large washers, threaded rod and nuts for installation of the races. Removal? Of course I'm very concerned with "squarely" doing such things.
So if anyone can point me in the right direction to the requirements, as well as any pointers, I'd really appreciate it.
FJ's forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
For reference...
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14227.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14227.0)
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 01:31:19 PMHello Fellow FJ'ers,
I need to replace my fork seals after a small accident.
JoBrCo
JoBrCo,
Sorry that you had a run-in with a dull one. Hope it goes well for you.
Unless the seals are physically damaged, you may be able to clean them out where they are leaking. You can make your own SealMate tool with scissors; just cut one out from a plastic milk jug. You can Google for a picture of the SealMate, or buy a real one for ~US$5 at most cycle shops. YouTube has "how-to" videos on the easy process.
Cheers,
Red
FJ1100mjk: Thanks much for the link, George's tool looks great, but I wouldn't expect anything less from him.
RED: Thanks!
And thank god the cop sited her. I told her that it didn't matter how fast I came from behind her to enter the right lane, as long as it was under the speed limit, and that all that did matter, according to the law, is that one must ensure a lane is clear before entering it, yet she just didn't get it?? :wacko2: She actually initiated her lane change before using her turn signal! And I don't think she used her mirror at all, becasue she would have seen me. I've been getting a lot of close calls these days, that I never saw back in the day before I mothballed her in 1995. I think the quality of drivers these days, is sorely lacking, except for bikers of course. ;)
Anyway, since her seals are the original '85 factory seals, she's got 39,000 miles on her, and all the other rubber is dryrotting quite nicely, ;) I decided to just go ahead and replace them. But your recommendation on the seal cleaner, shall surely be considered for the new seals. Nothing I hate worse than going through all that work, just to have the new stuff leak shortly afterward. Yes that's my luck for you. I got one of those Motion Pro 41mm seal drivers, so I expect it to be a good install. So I'm thinking remove the fork tube first then easily remove the old seal, yes?
Everyone: I need to gather all that I need for the job before I start, becasue the bike is the only transportation I have at the moment. And while I probably should, I really don't feel like walking for 3-4 miles, round trip, to the local Home Depot/AutoZone.
Does anyone know how long the extension should be?
How about the Allen head size for an '85 lower bolt? (I guess I can get this tidbit from the service manual)
Does anyone know of a step by step guide link for the '84-'85 with all specific requirements. (I love this site, but hate it's search engine.) Last year, Monkey or someone mentioned how to use Google search for this site, but whoever it was lost me.
Thanks again guys!
FJ's forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 02:54:59 PMLast year, Monkey or someone mentioned how to use Google search for this site, but whoever it was lost me.
Thanks again guys!
JoBrCo
JoBrCo,
On the usual Google Search line, enter the words that you want to search for. Then add a space, and . . .
SITE:http://www.fjowners.com
or maybe better, for the fork job, search just the Maintenance forum here . . .
SITE:http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?board=11.0
all on one line. Google will search only this site, or even one forum only here, to find your search terms.
Cheers,
Red
I noticed that you already have a seal driver so this is for the benefit of others that like to DIY tools. I borrowed a seal driver from Simi_Ed and later copied it to add to my FJ tool box. Made from 2" PVC pipe, I know it is longer than required and will cut it down when I get the exact size needed.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/410/19160443164_051b454abe_z.jpg)
As the bike is your only set of wheels and all you want to is change the fork seals and dust covers. I am not sure you need to pull apart the fork tubes. I think (from memory) you just pull the forks, pry off the dust covers, and remove a retaining spring (small screw driver) and pry out the seals ? Reinstall the seals etc. I just tapped my seals back in (lightly) without any special driver. They have been in for a while now and no leaks.
I replaced mine during a rebuild and modification of the dampener system. I also had to replace one fork tube because of a "pit" in the finish.
The bottom Allen is 10mm I believe. I don't remember the length of the extensions. I just stacked a combo that worked. WAG , 16 inchs.
George
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 02:54:59 PM
So I'm thinking remove the fork tube first then easily remove the old seal, yes?
No, just carefully pry out the old seals and install the new ones.
Also, do not skimp on seals, you will be doing them again before you know it.
You should only use the NOK brand seals which I offer;
RPM FJ 41mm Fork Seal & Wiper Kit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkSealKit)
Randy - RPM
George beat me by a little of a minute...
+1 with Randy at RPM, many have reported problems with aftermarket seals leaking when new. I have only used OEM seals with zero issues.... The seals don't cost nearly as much as it takes in labor to change them.... Do it once, do it right...
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 17, 2015, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 02:54:59 PM
So I'm thinking remove the fork tube first then easily remove the old seal, yes?
No, just carefully pry out the old seals and install the new ones.
Also, do not skimp on seals, you will be doing them again before you know it.
You should only use the NOK brand seals which I offer; RPM FJ 41mm Fork Seal & Wiper Kit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkSealKit)
Randy - RPM
George beat me by a little of a minute...
See my OP, I bought the ones I have from you, but then I believe I understand marketing, though I'm no salesman, you? ;) :blum1:
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Quote from: movenon on July 17, 2015, 05:30:04 PM
As the bike is your only set of wheels and all you want to is change the fork seals and dust covers. I am not sure you need to pull apart the fork tubes. I think (from memory) you just pull the forks, pry off the dust covers, and remove a retaining spring (small screw driver) and pry out the seals ? Reinstall the seals etc. I just tapped my seals back in (lightly) without any special driver. They have been in for a while now and no leaks.
I replaced mine during a rebuild and modification of the dampener system. I also had to replace one fork tube because of a "pit" in the finish.
The bottom Allen is 10mm I believe. I don't remember the length of the extensions. I just stacked a combo that worked. WAG , 16 inchs.
George
Thanks George that sounds a whole lot easier and less time consuming! But if I do it that way will my very close inspection with a 10x coddington be able to ensure there are no pits on my tubes where it counts?
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 17, 2015, 05:21:27 PM
I noticed that you already have a seal driver so this is for the benefit of others that like to DIY tools. I borrowed a seal driver from Simi_Ed and later copied it to add to my FJ tool box. Made from 2" PVC pipe, I know it is longer than required and will cut it down when I get the exact size needed.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/410/19160443164_051b454abe_z.jpg)
Does that DWV PVC have enough mass?
It might be better to keep it long, more mass.
Plus I don't know about yours, but my wife said she likes mine real long. ;)
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Don't over think it.
George
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
Does that DWV PVC have enough mass?
It might be better to keep it long, more mass.
Plus I don't know about yours, but my wife said she likes mine real long. ;)
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
The mass comes from the hammer that drives it... nuff said... :biggrin:
Quote from: movenon on July 17, 2015, 06:56:01 PM
Don't over think it.
George
I'm just saying that I fully understand your concern of pits on the tube, effectively resulting in the machining action of the seals sealing lip, thus causing early failure. I was agreeing with you George, while at the same time sharing your concern, as it's one of mine. ;) So will I be able to see pits where I don't want pits, using your method? I wasn't being rhetorical, I really wanted your thoughts on the matter.
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 17, 2015, 07:12:47 PM
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
Does that DWV PVC have enough mass?
It might be better to keep it long, more mass.
Plus I don't know about yours, but my wife said she likes mine real long. ;)
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
The mass comes from the hammer that drives it... nuff said... :biggrin:
(popcorn)
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 07:45:13 PM
Quote from: movenon on July 17, 2015, 06:56:01 PM
Don't over think it.
George
I'm just saying that I fully understand your concern of pits on the tube, effectively resulting in the machining action of the seals sealing lip, thus causing early failure. I was agreeing with you George, while at the same time sharing your concern, as it's one of mine. ;) So will I be able to see pits where I don't want pits, using your method? I wasn't being rhetorical, I really wanted your thoughts on the matter.
The pit I had you could see and feel. Looked like a rock had it it. From memory 1/16inch on diameter. And was located dead center in the front of the tube in the middle of the usable area of the suspension.
Worn fork bushing can also contribute to seals not holding. Or could be as simple as this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1owBoyM-i3k RPM stocks them or you can make your own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEzjdFQp6IM
Before you put the new seals in, give the stanchions a linish with some very fine wet and dry sandpaper and wd40. Clamp the fork in a vice, cut the sandpaper into strips, spray the stanchion with wd40 and wrap the strip of paper around the stanchion as many times as length allows and pull back and forward while going up and down the leg. It'll smooth out any little nicks etc. Doing that and using good quality seals should ensure a long life between changes.
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 06:38:37 PM
See my OP, I bought the ones I have from you, but then I believe I understand marketing, though I'm no salesman, you? ;) :blum1:
JoBrCo
JoBrCo,
You are correct, I did glaze over the OP and missed the fact you had already purchased the
RPM FJ 41mm Fork Seal & Wiper Kit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkSealKit).
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Bones on July 17, 2015, 10:00:41 PM
Before you put the new seals in, give the stanchions a linish with some very fine wet and dry sandpaper and wd40. Clamp the fork in a vice, cut the sandpaper into strips, spray the stanchion with wd40 and wrap the strip of paper around the stanchion as many times as length allows and pull back and forward while going up and down the leg. It'll smooth out any little nicks etc. Doing that and using good quality seals should ensure a long life between changes.
This post begs the question: What are the "inner" tubes made from? What I mean to ask is, are they made of a base metal such as regular steel, that's chrome plated, or are they some sort of "solid" alloy, that stays shiny and corrosion resistant, no matter how much material you take off? I've always assumed they were chrome plated base metal, that can't sustain a very deep pit without further corrosion taking place at a more rapid rate, and thus more abrasive to the seals. So personally I'd be afraid to take 800 grit W/D to them.
Anyone know?
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Quote from: racerrad8 on July 19, 2015, 12:10:06 PM
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 17, 2015, 06:38:37 PM
See my OP, I bought the ones I have from you, but then I believe I understand marketing, though I'm no salesman, you? ;) :blum1:
JoBrCo
JoBrCo,
You are correct, I did glaze over the OP and missed the fact you had already purchased the RPM FJ 41mm Fork Seal & Wiper Kit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFJ41ForkSealKit).
Randy - RPM
Right... ;)
By the way, last year, when I talked to you about the float needle valves leaking, I found out that I had unknowingly slightly bent one of the float hinge pins, and it would randomly get hung up, causing the fuel overflow. :dash2:
So I painstakingly bent it straight and sanded it a bit as a temporary measure, I need to get four of those pins some day. :dash1:
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Quote from: JoBrCo on July 23, 2015, 02:54:01 PM
Quote from: Bones on July 17, 2015, 10:00:41 PM
Before you put the new seals in, give the stanchions a linish with some very fine wet and dry sandpaper and wd40. Clamp the fork in a vice, cut the sandpaper into strips, spray the stanchion with wd40 and wrap the strip of paper around the stanchion as many times as length allows and pull back and forward while going up and down the leg. It'll smooth out any little nicks etc. Doing that and using good quality seals should ensure a long life between changes.
This post begs the question: What are the "inner" tubes made from? What I mean to ask is, are they made of a base metal such as regular steel, that's chrome plated, or are they some sort of "solid" alloy, that stays shiny and corrosion resistant, no matter how much material you take off? I've always assumed they were chrome plated base metal, that can't sustain a very deep pit without further corrosion taking place at a more rapid rate, and thus more abrasive to the seals. So personally I'd be afraid to take 800 grit W/D to them.
Anyone know?
FJ's Forever :drinks:
JoBrCo
Older ones are steel tubes with hard chrome plating. Newer models have some different "low friction" coatings - but I don't know if they are applied directly to the base layer or over something like hard chrome.
The tip about linishing the stanchions came from an Australian motorcycle magazine called Motorcycle Trader. I did my stanchions this way a couple of years ago and have had no problems after doing it. I put new seals in when I fitted RPM valves and new bushes recently, but didn't really need them, the old ones were still in good condition and leak free.
http://www.trademotorcycles.com.au/spannerman-tech-advice/1312/advice-how-to-replace-fork-seals/ (http://www.trademotorcycles.com.au/spannerman-tech-advice/1312/advice-how-to-replace-fork-seals/)
FYI... fork tubes are hard-chrome plated, then ground to size. If you find that your fork tubes are badly nicked or scored, don't throw them away. They can be re-chromed. I do this to airplane landing gear struts all the time. It's no big deal and not terribly expensive.
Quote from: CutterBill on July 25, 2015, 09:32:00 AM
FYI... fork tubes are hard-chrome plated, then ground to size. If you find that your fork tubes are badly nicked or scored, don't throw them away. They can be re-chromed. I do this to airplane landing gear struts all the time. It's no big deal and not terribly expensive.
That is a great idea, thanks.
Quote from: Bones on July 24, 2015, 04:23:34 PM
The tip about linishing the stanchions came from an Australian motorcycle magazine called Motorcycle Trader. I did my stanchions this way a couple of years ago and have had no problems after doing it. I put new seals in when I fitted RPM valves and new bushes recently, but didn't really need them, the old ones were still in good condition and leak free.
http://www.trademotorcycles.com.au/spannerman-tech-advice/1312/advice-how-to-replace-fork-seals/ (http://www.trademotorcycles.com.au/spannerman-tech-advice/1312/advice-how-to-replace-fork-seals/)
Hey Bones, what grit did you use? 1200?
Quite some time ago I couldn't find anything above 600 grit, but today I see much finer. What would be the minimum grit to be considered a polishing grit? What about either "Polishing Compound" or "Rubbing Compound?"
Quote from: CutterBill on July 25, 2015, 09:32:00 AM
FYI... fork tubes are hard-chrome plated, then ground to size. If you find that your fork tubes are badly nicked or scored, don't throw them away. They can be re-chromed. I do this to airplane landing gear struts all the time. It's no big deal and not terribly expensive.
Landing gear struts... ...Now that's something I'm familiar with, at least those on a Lockheed P3C.
Though expensive is relative, and I'd say that anyone that owns an aircraft, can relatively afford to re-chrome their struts. I mean, how much do brand new struts cost anyway? ;)
How much would you suppose it'd cost for both fork tubes to be "hard-chrome" (heat treated or chrome alloy?) plated?
FJ's Forever! :drinks:
JoBrCo
Quote from: JoBrCo on August 02, 2015, 04:46:20 PM
...Though expensive is relative, and I'd say that anyone that owns an aircraft, can relatively afford to re-chrome their struts. I mean, how much do brand new struts cost anyway? ;)
For a Cessna 310... $5000. Each. Last time I had them rechromed (for a customer) it was $1100 for all three. But that's airplane stuff... :wacko3:
To rechrome motorcycle fork tubes, I would guess $200-300 for both. But I could be wrong...
Bill