So, I ripped into the new-to-me FJ.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150622_2058301_zpswclr2xki.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150622_2058301_zpswclr2xki.jpg.html)
[/quote]
A few missing/badly replaced screws.
Keys:
All three locks take a different key. Ignition lock is loose in it's mount and worn/broken to the point that two of the keys turn it, despite being different keys.
I am going to take the matched lock set from the wrecked one.
Carbs:
Generic parts store fuel line, badly routed and pinched all to hell. This has to go.
A couple of stripped screws on the carb hats. A trip to Fastenal is in order.
Inside, emulsion tubes clogged, green gunk on main jets. Pilot jets are 42.5. Which is a little odd. The upsized pilots I got from Randy were 40, if I remember right. Perhaps a consequence of "engine work" mentioned by previous owner? Carbs apart, jets soaking in the carb dip.
Shock:
The bike seems to be fitted with a non-stock rear shock of some sort. Doesn't have an external adjuster and has a gray finish. Doesn't appear to be bad. I was a little worried that it might be a contributor to the rear fender being tweaked off-center, but the main frame doesn't look to be damaged.
Rear subframe:
The rear fender is not centered over the tire. The right-hand side panel does not fit flush with the rear. I think the subframe is bent.
Not sure how to check. Maybe I will pull the frames from both bikes and compare them that way.
Forks look to be in good shape, but so are the 89 forks from the wreck. I think I am going to swap them.
So, the pilot jet size is even more a mystery. Only one of them is 42.5, the other three are the standard 37.5.
Maybe previous owner lost one and stuck in one that sorta fit?
Mains are 115. Stock should be 112.5. Would a Vance & Hines pipe account for that?
Shock mystery resolved.
Apparently, it's a Progressive Suspension unit.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150625_1323141_zpsgaxt9sbr.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150625_1323141_zpsgaxt9sbr.jpg.html)
Also, I has clean carb guts.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150625_113010-11_zpscn5125wq.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150625_113010-11_zpscn5125wq.jpg.html)
Also, cause of always-on neutral light found - wire cut and purposely shorted to frame.
Since the original fuel line was gone and the replacement was the too-thick generic, I am trying a clear vinyl fuel line. This is 5/16, which is the biggest I could source locally.
It fits in the correct loop. Getting it onto the barbs was kind of a bear.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150625_2201511_zpsplghaxfc.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150625_2201511_zpsplghaxfc.jpg.html)
Quote from: JPaganel on June 25, 2015, 11:16:56 PM
Since the original fuel line was gone and the replacement was the too-thick generic, I am trying a clear vinyl fuel line. This is 5/16, which is the biggest I could source locally.
It fits in the correct loop. Getting it onto the barbs was kind of a bear.
That doesn't look like proper fuel line. Do you have any more detail on exactly what it is?
If it is just vinyl tubing, even if it is rated for fuel, it will not handle the heat and will collapse on itself or simply fall off the fittings. Vinyl tubing also hardens and cracks quite quickly. (IMO)
Ever had to cut a "fresh" end on the fuel hose of your mower or other small engine device after it has turned brown, hardened, split and fallen off? That's vinyl.
One of the reasons for thick hose in some applications is heat shielding. It gets very hot there.
Noel
+1 on what Noel said. Be careful with this. I would hate to see your hard work go up in flames.
FYI the routing on the green line is incorrect.
The line to the petcock should go under both branch lines (not just one)
Good to see the FJ getting some much needed attention! Kudos JP
Quote from: ribbert on June 26, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
That doesn't look like proper fuel line. Do you have any more detail on exactly what it is?
It literally said "fuel line" on it. I picked it up at a motorcycle shop.
Quote from: ribbert on June 26, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
If it is just vinyl tubing, even if it is rated for fuel, it will not handle the heat and will collapse on itself or simply fall off the fittings. Vinyl tubing also hardens and cracks quite quickly. (IMO)
I'm not sure it's vinyl, but it looks like it.
Quote from: ribbert on June 26, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
Ever had to cut a "fresh" end on the fuel hose of your mower or other small engine device after it has turned brown, hardened, split and fallen off? That's vinyl.
One of the reasons for thick hose in some applications is heat shielding. It gets very hot there.
Noel
I've had to do that with rubber hoses, too.
I've been trying to find something else that would fit, but all the thicker rubber hoses are too thick to make the bend.
Is there some sort of commonly accepted replacement? 36Y-24312-00-00 and 36Y-24311-00-00, the original fuel lines, are no longer available.
Quote from: JPaganel on June 26, 2015, 02:03:59 AM
It literally said "fuel line" on it. I picked it up at a motorcycle shop.
Unfortunately there are many varieties of fuel lines for many different applications
Quote from: ribbert on June 26, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
If it is just vinyl tubing, even if it is rated for fuel, it will not handle the heat and will collapse on itself or simply fall off the fittings. Vinyl tubing also hardens and cracks quite quickly. (IMO)
I'm not sure it's vinyl, but it looks like it.
Fuel line is made from a number of different materials like Tygon, neoprene, vinyl, hard plastic, treated rubber etc. They are all suitable for carrying fuel but are not all suitable for every application.
In my opinion, you need the thick reinforced rubber fuel hose, if you can't make the bend, put and elbow in it.
Quote from: ribbert on June 26, 2015, 12:22:56 AM
Ever had to cut a "fresh" end on the fuel hose of your mower or other small engine device after it has turned brown, hardened, split and fallen off? That's vinyl.
One of the reasons for thick hose in some applications is heat shielding. It gets very hot there.
Noel
I've had to do that with rubber hoses, too.
Ive never seen that happen with proper rubber fuel hose
I've been trying to find something else that would fit, but all the thicker rubber hoses are too thick to make the bend.
Just fit a 90 degree elbow to make the bend. Brass, nylon, alluminium, barbed, flared, threaded etc. whatever is a good fit inside the fuel line and put a clamp around it. All sorts of fittings are available at your local auto or hardware store.
I seem to recall a photo here, maybe Monkey Marks bike?, that shows just such an elbow (a brass one) on a gravity feed bike.
Is there some sort of commonly accepted replacement? 36Y-24312-00-00 and 36Y-24311-00-00, the original fuel lines, are no longer available.
I don't know but fuel line is not something you need to buy as a spare part.
Noel
Wow how good are those emulsion tubes and jets after soaking in carb dip!! Mine looked no different after soaking for a week in acetone and other solutions, so they went in the bin and bought new ones.
Problem is we cannot buy proper "carb dip" here, that's like in Australia :(
Quote from: X-Ray on June 26, 2015, 04:10:44 AM
Wow how good are those emulsion tubes and jets after soaking in carb dip!! Mine looked no different after soaking for a week in acetone and other solutions, so they went in the bin and bought new ones.
Problem is we cannot buy proper "carb dip" here, that's like in Australia :(
It's not just carb dip.
Dip is great for the petroleum deposits, but the thing to get rid of corrosion is boiling in lemon juice. Also helps loosen petroleum stuff.
Regarding your fuel line, until you know how that line behaves in the heat, clamp each connection (safety wire will work) to stay safe. If you have a heat gun and some spare fuel line you can also heat it up to see how it reacts. If it gets soft it may kink and cause fuel delivery issues. I replaced my fuel line on my '86 last year with the thicker automotive fuel line and put clamps at each connection. I am looking forward to seeing your progress, my '86 needs a revival as well.
Progress for today:
Reloomed and rerouted the pickup coil harness. It was hanging out in a giant loop, now it's under the generator like it should be. Also, the vinyl tube loom is one unbroken piece now. I actually found the exact replacement at a local surplus shop. Soldered the splices, too.
Fixed the neutral switch harness. Neutral light operates normally.
Reattached whale tail and taillight.
Moved the good lockset from the wreck to the new one.
Moved the nice green LEDs to the new dash. Have a weird issue with the dash - when I turn on the blinkers, the dash blinks. Maybe I need to play with how the LEDs are oriented in the sockets.
About ready to get the carbs back on.
Quote from: JPaganel on June 26, 2015, 11:14:12 PM
Progress for today:.......................
Good progress JP, perhaps now you could change your avatar for someone that looks a little happier.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on June 26, 2015, 11:50:53 PM
Quote from: JPaganel on June 26, 2015, 11:14:12 PM
Progress for today:.......................
Good progress JP, perhaps now you could change your avatar for someone that looks a little happier.
Noel
I hate to agree with Noel but you are welcome to use any of the pictures in my gallery since I am not smart enough to use one for my avatar. Until the movie came out I didn't know what an avatar was. Good progress on the bike. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on June 27, 2015, 12:06:10 AM
I hate to agree with Noel............
Dave
Awww, come on Dave, it's not that tough. It makes you stand out from the crowd. :biggrin:
Noel
My avatar is the actual Jacques Eliacin Francois Marie Paganel, Secretary of the Geographical Society of Paris, Corresponding Member of the Societies of Berlin, Bombay, Darmstadt, Leipsic, London, St. Petersburg, Vienna, and New York; Honorary Member of the Royal Geographical and Ethnographical Institute of the East Indies.
:biggrin:
Quote from: JPaganel on June 27, 2015, 01:40:20 AM
My avatar is the actual Jacques Eliacin Francois Marie Paganel, Secretary of the Geographical Society of Paris, Corresponding Member of the Societies of Berlin, Bombay, Darmstadt, Leipsic, London, St. Petersburg, Vienna, and New York; Honorary Member of the Royal Geographical and Ethnographical Institute of the East Indies.
:biggrin:
That's a very impressive CV, but he still looks miserable.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on June 27, 2015, 12:36:25 AM
Awww, come on Dave, it's not that tough. It makes you stand out from the crowd. :biggrin:
Now
that's funny. :lol:
Quote from: ribbert on June 27, 2015, 03:58:31 AM
Quote from: JPaganel on June 27, 2015, 01:40:20 AM
My avatar is the actual Jacques Eliacin Francois Marie Paganel, Secretary of the Geographical Society of Paris, Corresponding Member of the Societies of Berlin, Bombay, Darmstadt, Leipsic, London, St. Petersburg, Vienna, and New York; Honorary Member of the Royal Geographical and Ethnographical Institute of the East Indies.
:biggrin:
That's a very impressive CV, but he still looks miserable.
Noel
He's probably thinking about what a pain-in-the-ass it is to recite all that when someone asks, "So...who are you, again?"
Bloody hell.
I was all set to get the carbs back in. Got them mounted, put gas to them. And got steady stream of gas out the vent tubes on # 3 and4.
It didn't do this at the seller's, so I'm guessing I bent a float when cleaning.
On the other hand, it runs smoothly and returns to idle.
Ugh.
So, that fuel line.
Apparently, it's developed a kink in one of the tubes going from Y to the carbs, just while sitting. This does not bode well.
I found something on eBay that I think should fit the bill better - 5/16 ID/12mm OD (yes, that's how it's listed) Viton tubing. They sell it for $20 a meter. The dimensions look like an exact match for the OE hose. Viton is good stuff - carb parts made from it hold up well.
Meanwhile, I might have to put in a couple of elbows.
Jpaganal,
I did away with the factory routing 20 years ago on my 86. I run a longer line from the petcock down between the center two carbs where the aircleaners go and put the Y fitting underneath the carbs. Then rotate the inlets down and run the two lines up to them from the Y fitting. No kinks...ever and I run automotive fuel line.
Here is the best pic I can get without pulling the tank.
Shit...the pic is upside down. You get the idea. I hope this helps.
Chevy, I might give that a try. I did order the Viton hose already, though.
So, carb issues are squared away. :good2:
HOWEVER.
I put the carbs on, buttoned it up, it started, ran. I decided to do a synch, shut off the bike and went to get the manometer. Come back out, bike doesn't start.
It will crank, but not catch. Have air, have fuel, ran two minutes ago... Must be spark. Sure enough. The spark is so weak, you can barely see it. I figured the coils warmed up and that made them go out. Swapped coils from the old FJ - no effect. Spark is still close to non-existent.
I am guessing I have a connection somewhere that heats up and gets some resistance going. Not quite sure what to do about that yet. Maybe a fat wire direct from battery to coils and a relay?
Hey
I had similar issue with my FJ. With the new lease on life you have given the carbs, your plugs could now be getting over fuels, this happened with mine. I thought it was an electrical issue. Did all the test, checked the resistance and ohms etc. Turned out that I needed hotter plugs than standard (I had replaced with new ones with out checking what was in the bike already, took 2 days to figure this out.) Put in plugs I grade higher and fired first go. Been running sweet ever since.
Aaaand...
Resolved.
The reason spark was weak was bad ground. I am guessing that a lot of the relay coil mods are compensating for this.
I put a jumper (fancy word for a random piece of wire I fished out of a box) from the ground terminal of battery to a bolt on the frame. When I touched it to the frame and cranked, it got hot and the bike started.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150702_171924_zpsyjo8gavy.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150702_171924_zpsyjo8gavy.jpg.html)
So, I yanked the ground cable, cleaned terminals, and for good measure made the jumper from the battery to frame permanent.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150702_172514_zpsl7hxilfa.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150702_172514_zpsl7hxilfa.jpg.html)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150702_173306_zpsvwzqcanx.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150702_173306_zpsvwzqcanx.jpg.html)
It runs.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 02, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
......I did order the Viton hose already, though.
JP, you seem reluctant to take advice on this subject (having already been given a solution)
Viton
is rated very highly for ethanol but
KINKS easily.
Also, if that jumper earth wire is taking the load, cranking the starter is going to melt it (that's why it got hot!). Have a look how thick the standard one is.
Noel
When I said I made the jumper permanent, I meant I made it out of 10 gauge wire with ring terminals. I don't think it's taking the starter cranking load, it's taking the coil load. Starter cranking would have melted that tiny 18 gauge test jumper. I think the real issue is connection between tail frame and main frame. Also would explain the massive voltage drop when using turn signals.
I'm reluctant to go with the standard parts store hose because I tried it before and had trouble with it not fitting, hardening, and generally being a pain. I am going to have to do something other than that polyurethane line I tried, though. It proved to be problematic already, being a royal pain to get onto the petcock and kinking. I have a couple of ideas bouncing around.
Incidentally, is there a reason that the splitter has to be a Y and can't be a T?
Quote from: JPaganel on July 03, 2015, 02:14:57 PM
Incidentally, is there a reason that the splitter has to be a Y and can't be a T?
The line routing can be altered to suit your comfort. So a
T vs. a
Y is not a problem as long as it all fits under the tank and allows the fuel to flow. The air box adds to this challenge as it eats up some room that could be used for alternate line routing. If you find a way to make it work and it does not affect your safety then I say go with it.
Quote from: FJmonkey on July 03, 2015, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: JPaganel on July 03, 2015, 02:14:57 PM
Incidentally, is there a reason that the splitter has to be a Y and can't be a T?
The line routing can be altered to suit your comfort. So a T vs. a Y is not a problem as long as it all fits under the tank and allows the fuel to flow. The air box adds to this challenge as it eats up some room that could be used for alternate line routing. If you find a way to make it work and it does not affect your safety then I say go with it.
Excellent advice!
The angle or number of the fittings has no effect on flow as fuel is only required at a trickle.
Just use an appropriate fuel line for the application.
Noel
And she runs. :yahoo:
This is what the permanent extra ground looks like - red wire grounded to a screw on the frame (replaced with a stainless one).
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150710_180925_zpsbhjobgiz.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150710_180925_zpsbhjobgiz.jpg.html)
This resolved both the running issues caused by weak spark and the blinking dash.
I think the issue is that some stuff is grounded tot he engine, some stuff to the frame, and some to the subframe. These three pieces don't necessarily have good contact once you have a bit of corrosion in the threads.
This is how I made the Viton hose work.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150710_180905_zpssh480bcj.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150710_180905_zpssh480bcj.jpg.html)
5/16 Viton hose is exactly like the OEM hose. However, it's not molded. It makes bends fine except the circle around the carb hat. I resolved this by running it inside a spring, which prevents it from collapsing. One important consideration is not leaving the end that goes on the petcock too long - that is guaranteed to pinch if you do.
Also, I put some stainless safety wire on the petcock before putting it all back together.
Bike runs and drives pretty well. There are slight issues with idle. It's a little high at 1500 RPM and there is some stumbling at lower speeds. I think I might need a new set of plugs and maybe to play with mixture screws. I'm sure they've been messed with.
One other thing I did last night is disconnect the anti-dives. Brakes were mushy and one of the fittings showed signs of a leak. Much better brakes now. Will be better still when i get the 89 fork on it.
Awesome, I love hearing things getting fix and working properly again. Good fix with spring and hose.
Good to hear that the extra ground fixed a bunch of your "issues".
I'd want to replace that RED wire with a BLACK or GREEN one though.
RED is generally +V while BLACK or GREEN is generally ground/earth.
It won't matter for you (as long as your memory holds out), but any
future owner or auto-electrician may be cursing you if you leave it RED.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 11, 2015, 12:59:38 PM
This is how I made the Viton hose work.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/JPaganel/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150710_180905_zpssh480bcj.jpg) (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/JPaganel/media/Vehicles/FJ1200/20150710_180905_zpssh480bcj.jpg.html)
Excellent fix!! The later bikes use the same thing.
Well done.
Noel
Quote from: Arnie on July 11, 2015, 09:21:18 PM
I'd want to replace that RED wire with a BLACK or GREEN one though.
RED is generally +V while BLACK or GREEN is generally ground/earth.
It won't matter for you (as long as your memory holds out), but any
future owner or auto-electrician may be cursing you if you leave it RED.
Red was the only 10ga wire I had. I would like it to be black, and maybe to attach it to the terminal differently.
Quote from: ribbert on July 12, 2015, 06:05:45 AM
Excellent fix!! The later bikes use the same thing.
Well done.
Noel
Same kind of hose? I thought the fuel pump used a smaller line.
Quote from: JPaganel on July 12, 2015, 09:22:02 AM
Same kind of hose? I thought the fuel pump used a smaller line.
I was just referring to the use of the spring to stop it kinking, not the actual hose.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on July 12, 2015, 09:44:53 AM
I was just referring to the use of the spring to stop it kinking, not the actual hose.
Noel
Huh. I had no idea.