Won't be the first time either.......... :sarcastic:
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/6735CC22-0241-4B29-9AF8-B5BEFFD77C22_zpskhsmgz2g.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/6735CC22-0241-4B29-9AF8-B5BEFFD77C22_zpskhsmgz2g.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/8CBED518-A1DA-4178-A3A0-7C5995B22449_zps1xv5honc.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/8CBED518-A1DA-4178-A3A0-7C5995B22449_zps1xv5honc.jpg.html)
I just developed an issue with downshifting the transmission in any gear.
Upon further inspection, I found this (what looks like a piece of twisted barbed-wire) dangling loosely behind the clutch assembly.
I am thinking it is a broken spring of some sort. (Detent spring possibly? :unknown:)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/30569DAC-7584-40F8-BF95-7DE8FA159F9E_zpsh1wg74ln.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/30569DAC-7584-40F8-BF95-7DE8FA159F9E_zpsh1wg74ln.jpg.html)
Anyway, pulling the clutch this evening to see what I need. :negative:
That appears to be the retainer wire between the first fiber and steel plates that many members have removed.
Number 8 on the diagram
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1990/FJ1200A/CLUTCH/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1990/FJ1200A/CLUTCH/parts.html)
Fred
Sounds like the shift mechanism not returning properly.
Thinking part number 8:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/171_14_05_15_12_23_49.jpeg)
Let me know if you'd like to borrow an electric impact for the clutch hub nut (also have the socket). I MAY also have the roller detent and heavy spring replacement part if you have trouble locating what you need in time for a comfortable completion before the rally. -- on second thought, I've got the stock (used) parts on hand too --
Chris
Quote from: aviationfred on May 14, 2015, 01:17:42 PM
That appears to be the retainer wire between the first fiber and steel plates that many members have removed.
Number 8 on the diagram
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1990/FJ1200A/CLUTCH/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1990/FJ1200A/CLUTCH/parts.html)
Fred
Funny we're talking two different parts on two different diagrams and they are both part # 8.
Fred - do those springs have a habit of getting out of the clutch basket? I'd think it would be so thin that if it did get out and get into the shift mechanism it would get sheared or mangled before it would interfere with shifting. I'm curious on this one!
Chris
Fred is correct. Other members have had this problem also. That retainer wire gets between clutch discs and does not allow the clutch to completely disengage thus the shifting problems. Inspect your discs for damage after disassembly. Dave
It is definitely not the "Judder Spring" that is deep inside the clutch basket.
That is intact, and the clutch works normally, like it is supposed to.
Upshifting works just fine. The problem is with downshifting.
I am hoping it is the detent lever spring. #8 in Chris's diagram, but I don't think it is.
Also, #5 is intact. I can see that is installed properly.
It appears to be a small piece of spring that is dangling from the (lever mechanism?) on the end of the shift-shaft #3
I've got shop-air in my garage, and any tools I think i might need.
I'll know more tonight when I pull the clutch out.
Look closely at #3 in the part diagram shown above.
There is a claw shaped part that engages the pins on the shift star. Most of these have a small spring that centers the 'claw' as you shift up and down. If this is broken or missing you would experience difficulty selecting a gear.
I don't remember if the FJ is sprung or not as I have never has to mess with one, but on my other Yamahas there is a spring.
From what I can see without taking it apart yet (which isn't much), looking at a picture of the shift-shaft assembly, I am thinking that this is the spring that broke.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/3DA731E5-4C66-4F75-A7DE-A5105A9FB485_zps4y6kyin5.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/3DA731E5-4C66-4F75-A7DE-A5105A9FB485_zps4y6kyin5.jpg.html)
Chris, you wouldn't happen to have a spare shift-shaft (with spring intact) laying around would you?
Call RPM now , they have used parts as well ... you could have it in your hands by sat.
Look on the bright side Alan. It is an easy fix (as fix's go) and better to find it now than during the rally when you would rather be riding. I know it is only money but it is a good time to install a "shift kit" from RPM while in the area. Put your new toy to good use while you are waiting :drinks: :biggrin:
George
It took me all of about 10 minutes to pull the clutch parts out.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/12F79ABA-19AE-4FDF-849D-3FE5BD8D2733_zps4suwrqs7.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/12F79ABA-19AE-4FDF-849D-3FE5BD8D2733_zps4suwrqs7.jpg.html)
The spring in question is the one I suspected.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/4F0BCE3E-9616-4B15-9529-98C21211C5F0_zps5ff053ky.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/4F0BCE3E-9616-4B15-9529-98C21211C5F0_zps5ff053ky.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/B5A34E26-2321-415C-A9F2-5B2CD8A88041_zpsc0ui6xxf.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/B5A34E26-2321-415C-A9F2-5B2CD8A88041_zpsc0ui6xxf.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/660E102B-BCBD-4AE2-87EF-FBEFB8D86B37_zpsrrquwqqo.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/660E102B-BCBD-4AE2-87EF-FBEFB8D86B37_zpsrrquwqqo.jpg.html)
From the pictures that Randy sent me, I have a better idea what it's supposed to look like.
It didn't break, but it somehow bent and unwound itself.
This is the reason why I still had up-shifts, but no down-shifts.
Anyway, I'm assuming when I pull the shift-shaft, all the oil that I just put in will pour out the shifter hole.
Now I need to pull the exhaust again, drain the oil into a clean container so I can re-use it, then pull the shift-shaft.
Off to the garage again. :wacko2:
Quote from: Firehawk068 on May 14, 2015, 05:33:40 PM
Anyway, I'm assuming when I pull the shift-shaft, all the oil that I just put in will pour out the shifter hole.
Now I need to pull the exhaust again, drain the oil into a clean container so I can re-use it, then pull the shift-shaft.
Off to the garage again. :wacko2:
Yep, the oil will leak out the open hole once you pull the shift shaft out. Good find, if you need to break a rally rule, then you did good. I can see that you found the thin retaining wire as well. Toss that part...
Maybe you need to get a clutch cover with a clear window from Fred. Then you can keep and eye on your clutch and catch issues early...
Quote from: movenon on May 14, 2015, 03:56:40 PM
Look on the bright side Alan. It is an easy fix (as fix's go) and better to find it now than during the rally when you would rather be riding. I know it is only money but it is a good time to install a "shift kit" from RPM while in the area. Put your new toy to good use while you are waiting :drinks: :biggrin:
George
George, you are absolutely correct!
I am very thankful that it happened "right now" instead of next Saturday (on our planned ride to Pikes peak), or putting a damper on my Central Rally fun in a few weeks.
The "Rally Gods" were definitely looking out for me on this one. :drinks:
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 14, 2015, 05:43:12 PM
Good find, if you need to break a rally rule, then you did good.
I'd say so Mark!
Quote from: the fan on May 14, 2015, 03:18:33 PM
Look closely at #3 in the part diagram shown above.
There is a claw shaped part that engages the pins on the shift star. Most of these have a small spring that centers the 'claw' as you shift up and down. If this is broken or missing you would experience difficulty selecting a gear.
I don't remember if the FJ is sprung or not as I have never has to mess with one, but on my other Yamahas there is a spring.
You were spot-on here.
That is exactly what happened.
Isn't there a ball bearing at the end of the clutch actuator rod to keep an eye out for? Or is that an 1100 feature? Didn't see it on the parts explosion mat unless it is hiding in the shadows... :music:
Quote from: FeralJuggernaut on May 14, 2015, 06:04:49 PM
Isn't there a ball bearing at the end of the clutch actuator rod to keep an eye out for? Or is that an 1100 feature? Didn't see it on the parts explosion mat unless it is hiding in the shadows... :music:
There is! I see it sitting inside the (trans input) shaft.
I am going to just leave it right inside there where it is, and just eyeball that it's still there before I re-assemble everything back together.
I have to give a shout-out to Superman-Randy @ RPM.
He has his plate full of stuff at home, and took the time to answer my e-mails (very quickly), and return my phone call, and he has a used shaft on it's way with a new shaft seal already.
Super Awesome service from him, as always! :good2:
Quote from: Firehawk068 on May 14, 2015, 03:20:41 PM
From what I can see without taking it apart yet (which isn't much), looking at a picture of the shift-shaft assembly, I am thinking that this is the spring that broke.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/3DA731E5-4C66-4F75-A7DE-A5105A9FB485_zps4y6kyin5.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/3DA731E5-4C66-4F75-A7DE-A5105A9FB485_zps4y6kyin5.jpg.html)
Chris, you wouldn't happen to have a spare shift-shaft (with spring intact) laying around would you?
Yes - I've got one. I'll bring it by your work tomorrow around lunch time if that works for you
Quote from: fj1289 on May 15, 2015, 12:33:25 AM
Yes - I've got one. I'll bring it by your work tomorrow around lunch time if that works for you
Chris, thank you. Hang onto it for now.
I've got a shaft/arm assembly on it's way from Randy@RPM.
As quickly as he shipped it out, I'm guessing it will show up tomorrow.
I'm uncertain how common this issue is, but someone may need another one at some point.
Luckily it is an easy fix. :good2:
Fantastic photo quality . :good:
Quote from: Firehawk068 on May 14, 2015, 05:33:40 PM
It took me all of about 10 minutes to pull the clutch parts out.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/12F79ABA-19AE-4FDF-849D-3FE5BD8D2733_zps4suwrqs7.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/12F79ABA-19AE-4FDF-849D-3FE5BD8D2733_zps4suwrqs7.jpg.html)
The spring in question is the one I suspected.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/4F0BCE3E-9616-4B15-9529-98C21211C5F0_zps5ff053ky.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/4F0BCE3E-9616-4B15-9529-98C21211C5F0_zps5ff053ky.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/B5A34E26-2321-415C-A9F2-5B2CD8A88041_zpsc0ui6xxf.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/B5A34E26-2321-415C-A9F2-5B2CD8A88041_zpsc0ui6xxf.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/660E102B-BCBD-4AE2-87EF-FBEFB8D86B37_zpsrrquwqqo.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/660E102B-BCBD-4AE2-87EF-FBEFB8D86B37_zpsrrquwqqo.jpg.html)
From the pictures that Randy sent me, I have a better idea what it's supposed to look like.
It didn't break, but it somehow bent and unwound itself.
This is the reason why I still had up-shifts, but no down-shifts.
Anyway, I'm assuming when I pull the shift-shaft, all the oil that I just put in will pour out the shifter hole.
Now I need to pull the exhaust again, drain the oil into a clean container so I can re-use it, then pull the shift-shaft.
Off to the garage again. :wacko2:
great photo quality
Quote from: Goody on May 16, 2015, 02:43:31 AM
Fantastic photo quality . :good:
Thanks John.
Smartphone camera technology has come a long way. :good:
These were all taken with my iphone 6-plus.
Spent some time in the garage today.
I didn't feel like pulling the chin-fairing, and the exhaust off again, so I just stood the bike over and dumped the oil out of the clutch housing.
Pulled the shift-shaft out.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/C9F9053F-B5AA-48DD-B50E-DF9451FEB17C_zpsayuzyyb3.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/C9F9053F-B5AA-48DD-B50E-DF9451FEB17C_zpsayuzyyb3.jpg.html)
I am not sure how the spring unclipped, and ended up on the wrong side of the tab? :unknown:
This is how it is supposed to look.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/86175E44-1A10-4892-A0BC-A7122157FEEC_zpssc6qgx7p.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/86175E44-1A10-4892-A0BC-A7122157FEEC_zpssc6qgx7p.jpg.html)
With the shaft/arm assembly out of the way, you can see the detent mechanism.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/7A9B10DD-5DCE-44D6-9B82-E94BB5AC91DA_zpsrfq5h86z.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/7A9B10DD-5DCE-44D6-9B82-E94BB5AC91DA_zpsrfq5h86z.jpg.html)
Since my FJ has a lot of miles on it (130,000 currently) the shaft has a lot of wear at the spot where it passes through the sprocket cover.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/21F2643D-2B23-411F-BB7C-F4F0FDF217B9_zpsr5livfab.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/21F2643D-2B23-411F-BB7C-F4F0FDF217B9_zpsr5livfab.jpg.html)
With the cover off, and the shaft pulled out, you can access the seal for the shift-shaft.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/EF287BF4-6402-499A-A882-1B6E6984BCEC_zpslnzrefek.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/EF287BF4-6402-499A-A882-1B6E6984BCEC_zpslnzrefek.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/D9CE2D12-2370-4DCB-9774-34E5DD19C69D_zpsuevdmh7s.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/D9CE2D12-2370-4DCB-9774-34E5DD19C69D_zpsuevdmh7s.jpg.html)
Took Randy's advice, and just popped it out with the end of a screwdriver.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/705C16FF-F6DA-4A78-BB9D-9DA0B44121AC_zps1zac7soi.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/705C16FF-F6DA-4A78-BB9D-9DA0B44121AC_zps1zac7soi.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/D0731FBA-B73C-4A1B-BC80-425CE36BED58_zpsim4i5j2c.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/D0731FBA-B73C-4A1B-BC80-425CE36BED58_zpsim4i5j2c.jpg.html)
This is as far as I got. I'm expecting the shaft and seal to arrive tomorrow.
Then I'll re-assemble tomorrow evening.
I received the package from Randy in my mailbox today. :yahoo:
I can tell that the replacement used shaft that I received has a lot fewer miles on it.
There is only some light scuffing. Nowhere near the wear that my original one has on it.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/BF1685F7-032B-4E63-AE9F-303994B550B9_zpsyfzqgqmy.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/BF1685F7-032B-4E63-AE9F-303994B550B9_zpsyfzqgqmy.jpg.html)
New Roller Detent installed.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/0AC43A60-E264-46C5-A857-17AE162D4745_zpsjy0c8td0.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/0AC43A60-E264-46C5-A857-17AE162D4745_zpsjy0c8td0.jpg.html)
Popped the new shift-shaft seal in.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/78065F99-5A6F-404F-9D12-F0477F55B0F9_zpsqditssz8.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/78065F99-5A6F-404F-9D12-F0477F55B0F9_zpsqditssz8.jpg.html)
Sprayed a little white lithium grease on the replacement shaft, slid it into place, and locked it in with the washer and e-clip.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/716822D4-EEE4-43D1-9848-B42C3691B1C6_zpswcdycomp.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/716822D4-EEE4-43D1-9848-B42C3691B1C6_zpswcdycomp.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/6F45E022-0F3E-4B38-B3DA-5D97A69C0259_zpsk3rauf2x.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/6F45E022-0F3E-4B38-B3DA-5D97A69C0259_zpsk3rauf2x.jpg.html)
Got the left side all put back together.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/F2D04128-2D67-4F84-A0F0-DB0D0F70C6B7_zps9pmtzscf.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/F2D04128-2D67-4F84-A0F0-DB0D0F70C6B7_zps9pmtzscf.jpg.html)
As per the recommendation from Randy and a few others, I left this out of the clutch-pack when I re-assembled it.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/57CFD53E-DAA0-4672-B86E-93338ED8EABB_zpsj5u4nvgp.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/57CFD53E-DAA0-4672-B86E-93338ED8EABB_zpsj5u4nvgp.jpg.html)
Since I was re-using the fresh oil I had just changed, and having to dump it back in the engine from my clean drain pan, I threaded the end of a 2-liter pop bottle into the filler hole.
Trimmed it into a better funnel shape, and poured in the oil.
I didn't spill a drop! :good:
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/F520C43C-0339-4F98-977E-70D1469817BF_zpsjldk03bi.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Maintainence/Shifter%20Issue%20Fix/F520C43C-0339-4F98-977E-70D1469817BF_zpsjldk03bi.jpg.html)
Nothing left to do but take her for a test-ride.
I have never had such smooth shifting with this bike before! Especially the down-shifts. (they were always a bit clunky since I've owned it)
It shifts like a totally different bike! :good2:
Kudos again to Randy @RPM, for his expert advice, and super-fast service!
Excellent! :drinks:
This is great info. I have the feeling that it may end up on my to do list. I have the feeling the despite the quoted 35k miles on my motor, it may have quite a few more than that. And I have one of Randy's Detent springs to install.
Mark