Good day guys
Please, I need help pleeeeeeeeeease.
I received a FJ1100 as payment for labour carried out on a '78 Honda CX500 as a restoration project. The FJ is in absolute MINT condition. It is a true beautiful bike. (see the pic below)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0776_zpsbqdueeig.jpeg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0776_zpsbqdueeig.jpeg.html)
However.
It sat under a carport for 7 to 8 years. The previous owner stopped riding it after it started to misfire. He did say he replaced the plugs with brand new ones. I already saw that the fuel is varnish and the tank is rusted terribly. So, I teared the carbs of, layered them in petrol for 48Hrs after tearing them completely apart, then used carb cleaner to clean the carbs to perfection, and then blew them out with my compressor.
Check out these clean carbs!!
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg.html)
Here is the this: I did this trice!! Yes, 3 times! I bench synced and synced the carbs, but Every single time I start her after cleaning the carbs, it starts after a while of playing with it, but it runs on only #3 and #4 cylinders. The headers on 3 and 4 gets hot very very quickly, nut 1 and 2 remains ICE cold. No heat at all. I cannot be a dead coil, as 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 runs off the same coil.
Please guys, I need help. I want to get this old timer back on the road, and show my fellow bikes here in South Africa (Gauteng, Krugersdorp) what a proper classic is all about.
Have you pulled the plugs on 1 and 2 to see if they are sparking? See if you can find an ultrasonic cleaner and do your carbs again. The jets are really hard to clean once they get plugged with that varnish you mentioned. Make sure you can see carb cleaner pass through each jet and passage.
Start at one end and work through each step. Do carbs 1 and 2 have fuel? Maybe the floats are stuck closed or improperly adjusted.
Spark, Fuel and air...
Good looking '85, I like the colors.
I think I have read some where that on some FJs , maybe the early ones , that the reserve was to shut down two cylinders as a warning. I would look to see if there is some kind of wiring for this..
Could be a myth..
Cheers
Quote from: roverfj1200 on May 09, 2015, 04:21:48 PM
I think I have read some where that on some FJs , maybe the early ones , that the reserve was to shut down two cylinders as a warning. I would look to see if there is some kind of wiring for this..
Could be a myth..
Cheers
Hmmm...... not sure if this could happen with cylinders 1 and 2 as they are on different circuits...... 1 and 4 maybe, or 2 and 3 maybe, but not 1 and 2.
Harvy
Pull spark plugs and see if wet with gas , next compression check.
see if spark is getting to 1&2 by attaching plug wires to spark plug while out of engine and cranking it over. You may have bad boots/wires.
If spark is ok . open fuel bowl drain screws to confirm fuel is reaching carbs of 1&2.
If you have spark and fuel in the bowl as well then clean carbs again. Float is stuck , sometimes they will drag on the side of the bowl .
Since the guy parked it with a missfire /backfire It could be the spark wire boots. or maybe fuel line clog on the carbs.
Quote from: roverfj1200 on May 09, 2015, 04:21:48 PM
I think I have read some where that on some FJs , maybe the early ones , that the reserve was to shut down two cylinders as a warning. I would look to see if there is some kind of wiring for this..
Could be a myth..
I recall this epic topis about this http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9996.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9996.0)
Quote from: casper on May 09, 2015, 01:29:03 PM
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg.html)
Anyone, what is wrong with this image??? I see it, being a G.F. carb owner...
Hint, it is not the beverage bottle aux fuel tank....
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 09, 2015, 05:44:19 PM
Anyone, what is wrong with this image??? I see it, being a G.F. carb owner...
Hint, it is not the beverage bottle aux fuel tank....
The two throttle cables?
Noel
The brether hose is kinked because it is not the right hose
Yep
1) twisted throttle cables
2) kinked breather hose
I also see...
3) 2 float bowl vent hoses missing ( if those hoses shown are the float vent hoses, they are too small)
4) 2 choke vent hoses are missing
5) fuel line routing is incorrect...although it may be this way just for testing
I hope there is a vent in that bottle...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 09, 2015, 07:02:15 PM
Yep
1) twisted throttle cables
2) kinked breather hose
I also see...
3) 2 float bowl vent hoses missing ( if those hoses shown are the float vent hoses, they are too small)
4) 2 choke vent hoses are missing
5) fuel line routing is incorrect...although it may be this way just for testing
I hope there is a vent in that bottle...
Pat got what I was seeing.... And then some....
@FJmonkey
Please please tell me what you see wrong!
Thanks for the help guys, I never worked on a FJ before. Thus I don't know these things.
Choke breather?? Where must this be?
Float breather pipe? My carbs has two white connectors between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 I reckon that should then be the breather connectors? There are no pipes connected to it.
Can someone please post a pic of a correctly installed care with correct pipe routing please?
Jets, guys, these Jets and jet ports cannot be cleaner than the currently are. There carbs are PERFECTLY clean.
I appreciate immensely! (Sorry for bad English guys, my home Language is Afrikaans)
Quote from: casper on May 10, 2015, 01:58:48 AM
Please please tell me what you see wrong!
1)Pat, before you freak the new owner out too much, I can see 4 vent hoses (below) and they don't look too small to me.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8804/17296025289_392d1529c5_c.jpg)
2)The throttle cables are not twisted, just need a slight tweak left and right where they fit onto the carbies to give optimal alignment (not that it's enough to matter)
3)The crankcase breather is likely kinked because of where it has been pushed out of the way but he would be wise to check and make sure it is not too long when fitted.
4)What are the "choke vent" hoses you mention? Are you referring to the white T's between the carbs?
Noel
Quote from: casper on May 10, 2015, 01:58:48 AM
Jets, guys, these Jets and jet ports cannot be cleaner than the currently are. There carbs are PERFECTLY clean.
I appreciate immensely! (Sorry for bad English guys, my home Language is Afrikaans)
Have you cleaned the fuel passage ways in the float bowl housings? If these are blocked you will not have fuel in the idle circuits. Without said fuel, these cylinders will not fire. Make sure you can get carbie cleaner to flow through these small orifices.
Pete.
Quote from: casper on May 10, 2015, 01:58:48 AM
Thanks for the help guys, I never worked on a FJ before. Thus I don't know these things.
Casper, Monkey (Mark) has given the best advice yet:
Quote from: FJmonkey on May 09, 2015, 01:39:57 PM
Spark, Fuel and air...
Keep it simple. If you have fuel, air (compression) and spark in the right order and the right quantity, it must run.
You are missing one of these on 2 cylinders. There are many simple checks that should let you figure out very quickly which one is missing. In all likelihood, it will be spark or fuel.
Noel
Quote from: copper on May 09, 2015, 05:25:32 PM
Quote from: roverfj1200 on May 09, 2015, 04:21:48 PM
I think I have read some where that on some FJs , maybe the early ones , that the reserve was to shut down two cylinders as a warning. I would look to see if there is some kind of wiring for this..
Could be a myth..
I recall this epic topis about this http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9996.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9996.0)
Yes, it was certainly epic, and changed my view of some people here forever but I don't think it's very helpful, a consensus was never reached and on the threshold of someone being proven wrong, got personal.
It's better left in the archives.
Noel
Yes, the debate on ignition interrupt vs fuel interrupt on the function of reserve switch is ongoing although the fuel interrupt has more anecdotal evidence.
Regardless, the reserve switch issue is a moot point in this case. Cylinders #1 and #2 are powered by different coils.
Quote from: oldktmdude on May 10, 2015, 04:48:11 AM
Have you cleaned the fuel passage ways in the float bowl housings? If these are blocked you will not have fuel in the idle circuits. Without said fuel, these cylinders will not fire. Make sure you can get carbie cleaner to flow through these small orifices.
Pete, those passages are for the choke circuit. If clogged, the engine will be hard to start but the idle circuit will work fine.
Noel, the small hoses that connect to the port near the float bowl gasket are air intakes for the choke circuit.
Casper, when you cleaned the carbs, did you remove the idle mixture screws?
Did you remove the emulsion tubes and clean them,their ports and the passage that feeds them. The insides of the pilot jets are hard to clean, can you see through them? http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3AE%2FTube&cat=24 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3AE%2FTube&cat=24) this link is a product picture of the emulsion tube from RPM's website.
My money is on a plugged pilot jet circuit. My best advice to clean out the pilots is to spray carb cleaner (or brake cleaner) through the pilot air jet on the inlet of the carb. You should get spray coming through the pilot jet, the air vent into the bowl and the actual pilot bleed port (downstream of the the throttle butterfly). Otherwise, your pilot circuit will not work work properly, and you could have symptoms as described.
Ed
Quote from: ct7088 on May 10, 2015, 04:13:46 PM
Did you remove the emulsion tubes and clean them,their ports and the passage that feeds them. The insides of the pilot jets are hard to clean, can you see through them? http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3AE%2FTube&cat=24 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3AE%2FTube&cat=24) this link is a product picture of the emulsion tube from RPM's website.
Thank you!!
Please tell me, HOW do you get these tubes out?? :dash1:
Please assist, my b@lls are on fire to take my FJ for a ride!!!
After you remove the main jet gently and carefully tap the tube out toward the carb throat.
To install do the reverse, there is a key way in the carb body to align the tube. Push it in with your finger, install the main jet, the main jet will pull the tube into final position.
Be careful jet threads, tubes etc. are soft. Inspect the tube holes and check for ovaling of the hole that the needle rides in.
While at it remove the pilot jets and clean. Consider replacing them with richer jets. The orifice in the pilot jet is very small. Inspect all the fuel /air screws each one should have a spring, washer and very small and important O ring.
George
Thanks for the help guys!
The FJ is running! Pulled the carbs AGAIN, cleaned them AGAIN and added a fuel filter. DONE!
Oh yes! It was actually 2 dead NGK plugs on 1 and 2 that caused all the trouble!
Here is me hitting the road in Krugersdorp, South Africa: YEAH!!!
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150516-WA0049_zpsxl4ohqhh.jpg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG-20150516-WA0049_zpsxl4ohqhh.jpg.html)
Quote from: casper on May 16, 2015, 01:47:20 PM
Thanks for the help guys!
The FJ is running! Pulled the carbs AGAIN, cleaned them AGAIN and added a fuel filter. DONE!
Oh yes! It was actually 2 dead NGK plugs on 1 and 2 that caused all the trouble!
Do not add a fuel filter on a gravity fed FJ ('84-87)
Fuel filters are fine on fuel pump FJ's but not on yours. Any impediment to the flow of fuel to your carb bowls *will* give you problems.
You've been warned.
What's the chance that 2 plugs go bad? Go figure.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 16, 2015, 01:56:13 PM
What's the chance that 2 plugs go bad? Go figure.
I used to have this 2006 Yamaha SX230 twin jet boat:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/697_16_05_15_2_40_02.jpeg)
It's powered by a pair of "marinized" Yamaha R-1 motorcycle engines (MR-1). The Yamahajetboaters forum is nearly as good as this one as folks there had been through it all, documented everything well and were always helpful. Whenever a new guy would come on and say he was having *any* trouble with the engine...starting, idling, running, power, vibration, etc...the first answer was always, "CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS!!!" I thought it was a running joke among the old-timers. Nope. Had my starboard engine way down on power at the lake one day (messed with steer-ability quite a bit)...and just thought I'd go the easy route and change the plugs first. Yep...had two that had failed!
I replaced all eight and kept the "good" plugs as spares aboard the boat for a quick fix on the water if needed. Not sure why they were failing, but it was common enough to make the list of what to do first. My brother had a 2006 R-1 and was very active on his forum. Said he'd never heard of such a thing and we both used the same NGK spark plugs.
Spark plugs go bad all the time.
#1 on my troubleshooting list . I keep spares in my tankbag.
quite often the installer breaks the porcelain with the wrong socket .
When I had my Kwaka triple years ago I bought plugs for it only to find one that was any good, the other two would just not fire and they were brand new. I've had no trouble since with plugs, but that's not to say it can't happen again, I suppose you can expect to get a few duds out of the millions they make.
+1 on what Pat said. IMO ditch/remove the filter. While nice to have the gravity feed fuel pressure on the FJ is at best a fraction of 1 PSI with a full tank of fuel. Most likely it will run fine at lower RPM's but a higher sustained RPM's don't be surprised if it starves out. Not good for your valves etc.. Also it will be aggravated as your fuel level go's down (even less PSI).
Glad you got it running and that it was a simple fix. :good2:
George
Quote from: casper on May 09, 2015, 01:29:03 PM
Good day guys
Please, I need help pleeeeeeeeeease.
I received a FJ1100 as payment for labour carried out on a '78 Honda CX500 as a restoration project. The FJ is in absolute MINT condition. It is a true beautiful bike. (see the pic below)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0776_zpsbqdueeig.jpeg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0776_zpsbqdueeig.jpeg.html)
However.
It sat under a carport for 7 to 8 years. The previous owner stopped riding it after it started to misfire. He did say he replaced the plugs with brand new ones. I already saw that the fuel is varnish and the tank is rusted terribly. So, I teared the carbs of, layered them in petrol for 48Hrs after tearing them completely apart, then used carb cleaner to clean the carbs to perfection, and then blew them out with my compressor.
Check out these clean carbs!!
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg.html)
Here is the this: I did this trice!! Yes, 3 times! I bench synced and synced the carbs, but Every single time I start her after cleaning the carbs, it starts after a while of playing with it, but it runs on only #3 and #4 cylinders. The headers on 3 and 4 gets hot very very quickly, nut 1 and 2 remains ICE cold. No heat at all. I cannot be a dead coil, as 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 runs off the same coil.
Please guys, I need help. I want to get this old timer back on the road, and show my fellow bikes here in South Africa (Gauteng, Krugersdorp) what a proper classic is all about.
carb diags or throtlle necs getting air from wrong place i think :flag_of_truce:
Quote from: roverfj1200 on May 09, 2015, 04:21:48 PM
I think I have read some where that on some FJs , maybe the early ones , that the reserve was to shut down two cylinders as a warning. I would look to see if there is some kind of wiring for this..
Could be a myth..
Cheers
[/quo
noup only myth there is no no tecnicue to that :flag_of_truce:
Quote from: JOMPPA10 on May 17, 2015, 04:23:47 AM
Quote from: casper on May 09, 2015, 01:29:03 PM
Good day guys
Please, I need help pleeeeeeeeeease.
I received a FJ1100 as payment for labour carried out on a '78 Honda CX500 as a restoration project. The FJ is in absolute MINT condition. It is a true beautiful bike. (see the pic below)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0776_zpsbqdueeig.jpeg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0776_zpsbqdueeig.jpeg.html)
However.
It sat under a carport for 7 to 8 years. The previous owner stopped riding it after it started to misfire. He did say he replaced the plugs with brand new ones. I already saw that the fuel is varnish and the tank is rusted terribly. So, I teared the carbs of, layered them in petrol for 48Hrs after tearing them completely apart, then used carb cleaner to clean the carbs to perfection, and then blew them out with my compressor.
Check out these clean carbs!!
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n285/casperjjordaan/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg) (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/casperjjordaan/media/DSC_0841_zpsyrc6lfe5.jpg.html)
Here is the this: I did this trice!! Yes, 3 times! I bench synced and synced the carbs, but Every single time I start her after cleaning the carbs, it starts after a while of playing with it, but it runs on only #3 and #4 cylinders. The headers on 3 and 4 gets hot very very quickly, nut 1 and 2 remains ICE cold. No heat at all. I cannot be a dead coil, as 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 runs off the same coil.
Please guys, I need help. I want to get this old timer back on the road, and show my fellow bikes here in South Africa (Gauteng, Krugersdorp) what a proper classic is all about.
carb diags or throtlle necs getting air from wrong place i think :flag_of_truce:keke
check carb diags then rubberboots to cylinders mine was diag into from carb to make it lean and owerhating icoud only drive 10 km then bike stops
I had the same problem, as mentioned in the OP, with my CB750. Cleaned carbs 3 or 4 times, new plugs points etc. I was at my wits end until I found a thread on the sohc4 forum that suggested new plug caps. Did that, problem solved.