My plan for swap rim from GSXR was perfect, until I started read topic about swingarm from FZ1...... :mad:
I found nice swingarm from 2004 Fazer 1000.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/4406_10_04_15_1_30_55.jpeg)
Because on that there is so many different models, types, years....... I have to ask:
If I will buy whole set from Fazer 1000: swingarm, wheel and brake, will be possible to install this with minimum fuss? Any chance for proper wheel and chain alignment?
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on April 10, 2015, 02:32:18 PM
My plan for swap rim from GSXR was perfect, until I started read topic about swingarm from FZ1...... :mad:
I found nice swingarm from 2004 Fazer 1000.
Because on that there is so many different models, types, years....... I have to ask:
If I will buy whole set from Fazer 1000: swingarm, wheel and brake, will be possible to install this with minimum fuss? Any chance for proper wheel and chain alignment?
I have a swing arm from an 2003 FZ1 so I know of two differences you will need to contend with. The axial diameter is smaller on the FJ. This can be fixed with the wheel, which you are already planning to do. Second, the clevis that the dog bones attach to is narrower than the FJ (the part sticking up in the image about 4 inches wide). You will need to figure out how to space or offset the difference. I am nowhere close to installing this on my '86 so I have not put any engineering time on the solution... It might be as easy as a longer bushing with spacers on either side to keep it centered. Post up if you find a way....
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 10, 2015, 02:57:09 PM
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on April 10, 2015, 02:32:18 PM
If I will buy whole set from Fazer 1000: swingarm, wheel and brake, will be possible to install this with minimum fuss? Any chance for proper wheel and chain alignment?
I have a swing arm from an 2003 FZ1 so I know of two differences you will need to contend with. The axial diameter is smaller on the FJ. This can be fixed with the wheel, which you are already planning to do. Second, the clevis that the dog bones attach to is narrower than the FJ (the part sticking up in the image about 4 inches wide). You will need to figure out how to space or offset the difference. I am nowhere close to installing this on my '86 so I have not put any engineering time on the solution... It might be as easy as a longer bushing with spacers on either side to keep it centered. Post up if you find a way....
Monkey,
When I did the YZF1000 mod to my YZF I encountered the same issue. In my case I was able to mill down the link to match the 1000 swingarm. I got lucky that I was ale to find the correct length bolt after narrowing the link. Prior to that I simply used rubber washers normally used for garden hoses to keep the moisture off of the exposed inner race(reused from previous swingarm). I am not completely familiar with the FJ mounting points but a similar method could possibly work. I had no issues with the gaps on either side of the mounting point as the dogbones were bolted firmly to the inner bearing race. It worked just fine for a few years of rallies, track days and racing. I only fixed it because it annoyed me that it did not look like an OEM install, but it performed flawlessly.
I too have an FZ1 complete rear end. The linkage from the FJ will need to be milled down to the same width as the attachment point on the FZ 1 swing arm. The bearing bores will also need to be recessed the corresponding amount into the linkage. Any machine shop can do this easily. The bolt one uses to attach the dog bones to the FZ1 swing arm will then be identical to what you need to attach the linkage, since once the linkage is milled down to mimic the swing arm they will be the same width. The bolt diameter is identical as well. Use FJ bearings in the linkage, and an FZ1 collar and bolt. This is to me the best way. It all looks factory and only FZ1 and FJ parts are needed.
Also , the swing arm pivot bolt is the same size ( diameter ) so I believe one can use the FJ collar with the FZ1 stock swing arm pivot bearings, bushings and end caps. Of course the FZ 1 swing arm needs to be made narrower to fit inside the FJ frame. I recall 4mm over all, but one simply needs to measure their FJ swing arm and mill it down to the same size. If I recall correctly the stock FZ bearings can be pushed in the right amount without any extra machining.
Quote from: fj johnnie on April 10, 2015, 06:53:39 PM
Also , the swing arm pivot bolt is the same size ( diameter ) so I believe one can use the FJ collar with the FZ1 stock swing arm pivot bearings, bushings and end caps. Of course the FZ 1 swing arm needs to be made narrower to fit inside the FJ frame. I recall 4mm over all, but one simply needs to measure their FJ swing arm and mill it down to the same size. If I recall correctly the stock FZ bearings can be pushed in the right amount without any extra machining.
Yes, swingarm bearings are very similar:
FJ1200- 25x33x30
FZ1 - 25x33x25
So FZ1 bearing is 5mm narrower.
That makes all work easier because original FJ bushing can be use.
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on April 11, 2015, 04:09:39 AM
Quote from: fj johnnie on April 10, 2015, 06:53:39 PM
Also , the swing arm pivot bolt is the same size ( diameter ) so I believe one can use the FJ collar with the FZ1 stock swing arm pivot bearings, bushings and end caps. Of course the FZ 1 swing arm needs to be made narrower to fit inside the FJ frame. I recall 4mm over all, but one simply needs to measure their FJ swing arm and mill it down to the same size. If I recall correctly the stock FZ bearings can be pushed in the right amount without any extra machining.
Yes, swingarm bearings are very similar:
FJ1200- 25x33x30
FZ1 - 25x33x25
So FZ1 bearing is 5mm narrower.
That makes all work easier because original FJ bushing can be use.
Use the FJ dust caps bearings and internal bushing. 2mm either side is correct.
replace the rear brake light switch at the master cylinder with a pressure switch banjo bolt to prevent the swing arm from catching on the OEM switch. Space out the difference in the linkage mount with appropriate size washers (you will see where you need them when you do the swap).
7 or 8 years since I did mine so trying to remember what else was involved.
If using FZ1 wheel, flip the sprocket and use a Honda VF1000R ('86 from memory) c/s sprocket with the inside face milled flat to get correct chain alignment.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/22_14_10_09_10_35_09.jpeg)
The hugger came from a mob in Purtugal - can't find them at the moment but it fits very well.
Rear brake line is original FJ and calliper stay is FZ1 in OEM position on FZ1 arm.
Thats about all I can remember.
Harvy
Thank You Harvy for info. Just in case: banjo bolt for FJ is M8x1.25??
I found Fazer1000 swingarm for less than 20$ with postage.......
now I have to hunt all other part in similar prices ;) That will take some time.....
I have stuck......
My plan is to find and buy all rear end from one motorbike. I found more than 10 sellers with entire Fazer for parts. Only ONE replied to me, that he will check tomorrow.....
I tried with Thunderace.... the same effect.
I can buy FZS 1000 swingarm without any problem, brake calliper and arm - after few emails I know where I can buy.
But wheel with all carrier, sprocket and other small parts...... dead end.
Now I can only wait.... :dash1:
It took me a year to find one , but I did get a complete swing arm wheel caliper rotor etc. , etc. , along with a complete front end. If you start the project before you have all the parts it will get expensive real quick.
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on April 20, 2015, 02:45:22 PM
......Now I can only wait....
Karol, fret not, that seems to always be the case....the time it takes to assemble the correct components for the mod is always much longer that the time it takes to actually do the mod...
Keep your eye out, it will happen, although not exactly within the time frame you expected.
While still searching for parts for swingarm mod , I replaced master cylinders:
Clutch MC from FJR1300:
First problem is clutch lever switch. It is to big and has 3 connectors. Temporarily I removed it out and I left clutch sensor disconnected.
Works totally different than OEM. Will take some time to get used to.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/medium_4406_03_05_15_11_50_15_1.jpeg)
Brake MC from Fazer 600:
Now I can use two fingers to stop my lady :sarcastic:
Because I have ABS working on rear wheel only I had to connect together ABS signal wire with (+) wire to avoid ABS light flashing.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/medium_4406_03_05_15_11_50_14_0.jpeg)
And braided lines and front gold dots from FZ8:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/4406_21_04_15_10_26_02.jpeg)
That's good to know about the stop switch on the Fazer m/c.
So you plugged removed the 2 brake lines that serve your abs front brakes and plugged the ports on the abs pump?
By connecting the 3rd wire at the m/c stop light switch to the + hot wire you now have abs working on the rear brakes?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 03, 2015, 01:20:10 PM
That's good to know about the stop switch on the Fazer m/c.
So you plugged removed the 2 brake lines that serve your abs front brakes and plugged the ports on the abs pump?
By connecting the 3rd wire at the m/c stop light switch to the + hot wire you now have abs working on the rear brakes?
Yes. I have two braided lines from MC to callipers. Hard brake lines to abs and from ABS to splitter on front I left on bike.
Brow/green wire in brake light switch provides information for ABS when You start pressing brake lever.
By connected ABS wire and (+) wire we "cheat" computer that front brake is not used. On rear wheel ABS works normally.
Thank you Karol :good2:
Today I fitted clutch lever switch. I had to cut few millimetres of plastic housing, from connection side to fit clutch master cylinder in right position.
Then I connected two wires from original installation to pin 1 and 3.
But I have doubts if this clutch switch is really necessary....
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/4406_04_05_15_12_52_02.jpeg)
Mine has been disconnected for about 10 yrs.. Don't miss it and no problems from it not being there.
I can see on forum only few FJ's with six-pot callipers, and all with special adaptors.
If someone is interested, I found easier bolt-on option on German forum: callipers from YZF 750 R
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/4406_14_05_15_1_43_14.jpeg)
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on May 04, 2015, 02:01:37 PM
Today I fitted clutch lever switch. I had to cut few millimetres of plastic housing, from connection side to fit clutch master cylinder in right position.
Then I connected two wires from original installation to pin 1 and 3.
But I have doubts if this clutch switch is really necessary....
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/4406_04_05_15_12_52_02.jpeg)
Isn't it there so you can start it in gear in case you stall it at the lights, otherwise you've got to fumble for neutral. Not fun if you've got an impatient horn blowing wanker behind you.
Quote from: Bones on May 14, 2015, 03:30:20 PM
Isn't it there so you can start it in gear in case you stall it at the lights, otherwise you've got to fumble for neutral....
Yes, that's what happens when the switch operates normally.
However, if you want to bypass the clutch switch, by tieing the wires together to close the circuit, you can start your bike anytime with the key on, regardless if you are in neutral or not...
IOW by closing the clutch circuit, the starter will be energized any time you press the starter button** in gear, in neutral, clutch lever in or out.
Beware: this clutch switch is a safety feature, not so much for personal safety, but for mechanical safety.
When (not if) you forget and engage the starter with the bike in gear and clutch lever out, you can damage your starter clutch and starter motor and stretch or break your starter chain. A broken or stretched starter chain is a major repair involving splitting the engine cases.
**assuming your sidestand switch is functioning properly or also bypassed.
Quote from: Harvy on April 11, 2015, 04:55:57 PM
[....]
If using FZ1 wheel, flip the sprocket and use a Honda VF1000R ('86 from memory) c/s sprocket with the inside face milled flat to get correct chain alignment.
Thats about all I can remember.
Harvy
I have few think overs about sprockets:
What gearing will be right? My plan is to put 18/42. It should be similar to what I have now: 17/39.
If it is possible, I want use sprockets without any milling or grinding. For rear I intend to use original Fazer1000. But front.... any other options?
Can I use washers under rear sprocket?
What difference will be in chain length?
grrr..... moditus :wacko3:
18/42 sprocket set requires a 112 link 530 chain on a stock FJ swingarm.
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on May 22, 2015, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: Harvy on April 11, 2015, 04:55:57 PM
[....]
If using FZ1 wheel, flip the sprocket and use a Honda VF1000R ('86 from memory) c/s sprocket with the inside face milled flat to get correct chain alignment.
Thats about all I can remember.
Harvy
I have few think overs about sprockets:
What gearing will be right? My plan is to put 18/42. It should be similar to what I have now: 17/39.
If it is possible, I want use sprockets without any milling or grinding. For rear I intend to use original Fazer1000. But front.... any other options?
Can I use washers under rear sprocket?
What difference will be in chain length?
grrr..... moditus :wacko3:
I don't recall how many links I cut off a 120 link chain when using the FZ1 wheel and swingarm...but it will be more than Arnies 112 as the FZ1 arm is longer.
I currently have 18/43 combo, but have also used 18/38.
The other reason for grinding one face off the Honda sprocket is to make it narrower so that there is still room for the nut and lock washer on the c/s. Also, its the outside face that is removed, not the inside as I said above..... brain fart!
Harvy
All parts for swingarm mod gathered together and big pack should be in my place next week..... :dance2: :dance2: :dance2:
START!!!!! :bomb: :bomb: :bomb: :bomb:
All parts in my possession. Computer keyboard already in grease :biggrin:
First question:
Because FJ1200 swingarm linkage is wider, could I do this:
Use FJ linkage and FJ spacer? Will it be strong enough?
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_01_09_15_9_16_39.jpeg)
Yep, use the FJ bushing and thru bolt on the FZ swing arm. As you see, the width of the FJ bushing matches the relay arm width.
You just need some spacers (at the swing arm) which fit over the bushing to keep the bushing centered (if not, the bushing will slide back and forth) and thus keeping the dog bones lined up.
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on September 01, 2015, 10:18:01 AM
First question:
Because FJ1200 swingarm linkage is wider, could I do this:
Use FJ linkage and FJ spacer? Will it be strong enough?
It looks like it will work, the way the shock sits and links are set up, the load of the spring is effectively transferred directly to the bolt. That load is now transferring to the bushing that now has 10MM unsupported. Imagine you have a shock with a 1400 lb. spring. With two dog bones each side takes half the force so 700 lbs. each. I think the bushing will handle it. I would add a plastic spacer on each end to keep the dog bones from moving around. However if the bushing does bend, it will not come out of the bearings. So you can use this to monitor if the bushing is bending. First use a ratchet strap to pull the rear wheel up and compress the shock (if something fails, better to have it let go when you are not riding it), remove the bolt. Slide the busing in both directions till it sits flush with the swing arm boss. If it slides freely then the bushing is still straight. Then take it for short ride and check it again. Then a longer ride, maybe a few good bumps to really work the rear shock. After each check you will gain a level of confidence and check less often. Then check it every tire change. If it does bend, do not ride it till you have a better solution. Hardened bolts do not handle bending loads and when bent enough simply snap. That would a bad day if at speed. If this works I just might do the same thing when I rebuild my '86.
[edit] If this has already been tested and a member can vouch for this mod, then never mind...
Another option is have some aluminum bushings welded on and reamed out to match the press fit in the swing arm.
I have aluminum spacers with 2 thin Teflon washers (for friction) inside against the swing arm, and outside against the dog bones, on my T-Ace swing arms.
No wear to report on the Teflon friction washers after 80k miles of use. I consider the washers a wear item which I can easily replace, if needed.
A little dab of moly lube also helps.
So I will do as Pat did.
Now time for weight in:
Fazer 1000 FJ1200
Swingarm (and all on it) 7,1kg 8,2kg
Wheel+sprocket+disc+tyre 15,5kg 17,5
wheel axle+ nut and washers 0,74kg 1,4kg
calliper + calliper bracket 1,35kg 1,36kg
TOTAL 24,8kg 28,46kg
I had my linkage milled down to mimic the width of the FZ 1 swing arm. The depth of the bearing space was increased to allow stock bearings to be installed. As the swing arm needs to be milled , you will be at a machine shop anyway. The FZ1 bearings are the same size as the FJ so a stock set of FZ1 bearings will then work.
I just couldn't see leaving it cantilevered out. But then maybe I am anal.
Quote from: fj johnnie on September 01, 2015, 05:48:38 PM
I had my linkage milled down to mimic the width of the FZ 1 swing arm. The depth of the bearing space was increased to allow stock bearings to be installed. As the swing arm needs to be milled , you will be at a machine shop anyway. The FZ1 bearings are the same size as the FJ so a stock set of FZ1 bearings will then work.
I just couldn't see leaving it cantilevered out. But then maybe I am anal.
Good option. machine the the link to match the swing arm. Easier to transport and machine than welding and then ream.
80% job done :wacko3:
But still have few problems:
- I riveted only one pin in chain. On other one riveter refuse to cooperate so chain is half ready.
- Front and rear sprocket are perfect alignment. But front sprocket (from Honda) despite milling down one side left no space for teeth on washer. So I am not sure what to do now....
- Will be hard to fit my Neta exhaust.....
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_03_09_15_11_28_38.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_03_09_15_11_29_28.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_03_09_15_11_29_02.jpeg)
Overall I am extremely happy with effect. I can't wait for road tests.....
FJ dogbones are to short. Rear end is much higher. So I used Fazer 600 dogbones - few mm longer and now wheel is in very similar position as originally.
Looking good, keep the reports coming...
I cut a 1/8" deep (0.125") recess in my Honda VFR sprockets to accommodate the locking washer for the c/s nut.
I would hate to have that nut spin off.
First short test drive done :yahoo:All works fine.
But now I have issue with steering, especially on parking speed ..... On every corner front wheel want turn deeper itself. I have to keep steering firmly......
Maybe it is back tyre: 170/60 almost worn.....
Problem with retaining washer is still unsolved, I have to think over something.
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on September 05, 2015, 01:17:17 PM
First short test drive done :yahoo:All works fine.
But now I have issue with steering, especially on parking speed ..... On every corner front wheel want turn deeper itself. I have to keep steering firmly......
Maybe it is back tyre: 170/60 almost worn.....
Problem with retaining washer is still unsolved, I have to think over something.
Are you saying that the bike over steer's ? You probably have already done this but go to the max PSI indicated for your front tire and see if it corrects. Just an idea. Last year my first ride out in the neighborhood my FJ way over steered. I mean scary. Dawned on me that I hadn't checked the tire pressures after taking it out of hibernation. After proper inflation no problem. Not an expert, suspension problems baffle me.
George
I found out what is wrong: gauge on my local petrol station lost accuracy. On both tyres was 30 PSI.
After pump up to 36 PSI on front and 42 PSI on back, over steering effect is minimal. New tyre should fix problem definitely
Job done :dance2:
Last problem: CS sprocket and retaining washer solved. I used two short bolts and strong loctite glue. hopefully it will be as strong as I believe.
On photo only one in place:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_08_09_15_10_38_07.jpeg)
Linkage system (combination as in Pat's FJ) survived all my tests.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_08_09_15_10_48_03.jpeg)
All this mod I can describe in one word: STABILITY
Totally different feeling especially when I release more horses than normal :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:
I have to get used to, to new geometry and wider tyre, because so far my riding style on sharp bends and roundabouts I can describe as - DRUNK MASTER STYLE :wacko3:
I believe that GSXR wheel mod is only cosmetical. For full effect stiffer swingarm is necessary.
Looks good, thanks for the update.
I still have problem with wheel alignment.....
In first configuration rear sprocket was flipped - as it was advised for me. After many checks with chain alignment tool it looked that everything is OK.
But....
after every wheel rotation I could push chain to right side, chain was always on left side.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_13_09_15_9_18_31.jpeg)
So I decided to flip back rear sprocket to factory position. And it is much better now. Chain is more centred on sprocket.
Again I checked alignment with tool and all seems to be OK.
I am not sure what that mean.... maybe my swingarm or frame is bend? or front sprocket have different offset...... or I just freaking out...... :wacko2:
I like to use this for chain alignment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201296945126?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201296945126?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82)
Hold on there Karol...Something's off.
1) Take your chain off
2) Align your back tire to your front tire with 2 straight edges. Note that the index marks on the swing arm blocks are not that accurate. You will see what I mean. Write down the difference between the left and right side index marks for you to use as a future reference. For example with the rear and front tires aligned the left side is 3.5 and right side is 3.0 hash marks.
3) Now with the front/rear wheels aligned check the sprockets with a laser (or straight edge) on the back sprocket...see where it points in relation to the front sprocket.
Yes, this is a pain, I know, but your chain and sprockets will thank you down the road.
Still not road ready..... :dash1: :dash1: :dash1:
I discovered that front sprocket is noisy..... it's howling noise. especially when I speed up on higher gear from low speed (60-80 km/h) after that I cant hear anything.
On central stand It is this same noise as on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_cLRMix3KY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_cLRMix3KY)
I checked everything:
- Wheels are in line
- wheel is in centre of swingarm.
- chain and rear sprocket checked 10 times with tool (like in FJmonkey link)
I did all road tests - roundabouts left/right, sharp bends left/right. I can drive slow or fast without touching steering. So from this side is PERFECT.
All looks OK.
Only this noise...... I set very loose chain slack - 4cm. Any ideas? Maybe it is because all components are new....
What slack will be proper for this modification?
Try more slack in the chain. With the back end raised, the angle of the swing arm vs the c/s sprocket means that the chain will tighten up considerably when the suspension compresses.
When you set the chain to the spec. slack with the bike on the center stand, then take the bike off the center stand and sit on the bike, you will see what I mean.
A loose chain is a happy chain
I used longer dogbones from Fazer 600 and swingarm is in very similar position as original FJ swingarm - So during ride slack will be not affected.
Now I have to find some garage with laser alignment tools for verify my measurements.....
I know that I am overreacting, but with such major modification I want be sure that nothing wrong will happen on the road.....
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on September 19, 2015, 11:29:36 AM
I used longer dogbones from Fazer 600 and swingarm is in very similar position as original FJ swingarm - So during ride slack will be not affected.
Suspension compression will always change the chain slack. You have to set chain slack on the loose side when the bike is on the stand because once the bike is on the ground the chain will tighten slightly, and moreso with you sitting on the bike. Really doesn't matter what suspension linkages you used as every bike acts this way.
If you center stand your bike, use a strap of some kind to compress the rear swing arm so it is level with the ground, the chain will be at its tightest point. It is way too much trouble for me to do that, I took Randy's advise and just leave it a little more loose than you think it should be. I readjust the chain about every 3K, not that it needs it but that's when I have to change the rear tire.
Due to very bad flu I have not much update. :bad:
But:
- Chain slack for FZ1 is 4-5 cm so I left 4 cm. For check it I simply unscrewed dog bones and moved swingarm up and down.
- I did alignment test as Pat suggested.
After two hours with fishing line and measuring tape in hand I discovered, that rear wheel is not in line with front one...... - for keep it straight regulation screw on left side of swingarm (from chain side) must be screwed out 1,5 mm further that the right one. That could be reason for problem with chain slack on one side rear sprocket - after regulation chain seats much better on rear sprocket - no slack on one side only.
I have no idea what that mean and how bad 1,5mm is..... Worst scenario: frame or swingarm is bend......
After all that measurements flu attacked and I am away from bike.
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on October 03, 2015, 02:34:58 PM
I have no idea what that mean and how bad 1,5mm is..... Worst scenario: frame or swingarm is bend......
The alignment marks in the swing arm have been reported to be off. I used to measure how far out the adjusting screws were on each side with calipers. Now I use the MotionPro tool, very quick and easy. Mount to the rear sprocket, visually align the rod on the tool with the chain and set chain slack. That is it. Tighten up the rear and make one last check for alignment and slack then remove the tool and ride it!
MotionPro how to video (https://vimeo.com/24324045)
Thanks Mark, cool video.
This Motion Pro tool assumes that your counter shaft sprocket and rear sprocket are aligned and not offset from each other.
**For me**, this condition is hard to tell with the chain installed. With the chain off and a laser tool (or long straight edge) you can easily see any offset. So get the back wheel straight then the check offset...
if ok go ahead and install the chain and use the MP tool for your rear wheel alignment.
Pat, you are correct. The MotionPro tool assumes the sprockets are already in alignment like an un-modified bike. We have plenty here like you and I that no longer have the OEM set up.
The motion pro tool does work well, very cheap to buy.
Small update:
Adjusting screw on chain side is screwed out 1,5mm further than this on brake disc side and:
- front and rear wheel is aligned.
- wheel is centred in swingarm.
- chain seats on rear sprocket as it should, no slack just on one side.
- chain is quiet and sound just like chain with no load.
No road test done. Proper wheels alignment and wheel centred in swingarm for me mean that swingarm and frame is straight.
But still big question: if everything looks OK why I have 1,5mm difference on swingarm marks?
For me it is to big difference for ignore it. I know that until I solve it, ride will be no pleasure for me.....
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on October 04, 2015, 12:33:51 PM
....But still big question: if everything looks OK why I have 1,5mm difference on swingarm marks?
For me it is to big difference for ignore it. I know that until I solve it, ride will be no pleasure for me.....
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 13, 2015, 02:48:55 PM
.... Note that the index marks on the swing arm blocks are not that accurate. You will see what I mean. Write down the difference between the left and right side index marks for you to use as a future reference.....
Now you know. Now you can compensate for it. Don't worry about it....Ride that fucker.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 04, 2015, 12:49:13 PM
Now you know. Now you can compensate for it. Don't worry about it....Ride that fucker.
I wish to forget. But voice in my head will not let me.....
And today I think I found reason for misalignment:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_06_10_15_12_36_46.jpeg)
It looks like axle is to short .....
Square piece of aluminium which seats there on axle is not deep enough on the axle and that causes problem. due to lower diameter in this place axle can move back 1,5 mm and with axle whole wheel. So that why I have to compensate.
Now I have to find out why axle is to short.
Interesting.
On my T-Ace swing arm conversion I got the entire assembly, wheel, spacers, cush hub, caliper bracket, axle and axle blocks all together as one unit. Everything is stock (other than shortening the pivot tube) No special spacers, etc, are needed.
Are you a using different axle (or axle blocks) than what came on the 2004 FZ-1 swingarm?
It is swingarm and axle with axle blocks from photo in my very first post in this topic. In theory it comes from this same motorbike....
If you get a chance, post a picture of your left and right axle blocks.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_06_10_15_2_24_26.jpeg) (http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_06_10_15_2_23_48.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_06_10_15_2_23_24.jpeg)
The pics show two different adjusting blocs, that is good. The parts lists on line also two different part numbers. I wonder if the block on the nut side has a taper to match the axial...
I am getting involved because I have a swing arm I want to put on my '86. These details will help.
Thanks for the pictures....Yea, those axle blocks look correct.
When I get back to the desert, I'll check my axle length to see if it's the same condition as yours.
Looking at your picture with the swingarm in a rested state (untorqued) can be misleading. Once you torque that axle nut up to specifications (80 ft.lbs?) that swing arm assembly is going to squeeze and perhaps the diameter of the hole in your axle block will be correct to accommodate the large diameter of the axle.
The offset on the index marks you show, looks to be approximately what I found on my TAce swing arm.
This was after very careful rear-front wheel alignment measurements. I used two 7 foot long pieces of dead straight square steel tubing which I clamped one to each side of my back tire. I checked and double checked my measurements......Yep, my index marks were off...
I think that if other bike owners would check the discrepancy of the index marks with the front/back tire perfectly aligned, they would be surprised.
The screwdriver handle trick shown in the above Motion Pro video is something I've used for years. I use a wood dowel instead. You have got to be assured that those axle blocks are pulled snug against the heads of the adjustment bolts.
Hope this helps. Pat
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 06, 2015, 03:31:15 PM
....... I wonder if the block on the nut side has a taper to match the axial...
I don't recall a taper on mine.
If it were tapered wouldn't it bind on the axle as the axle nut was torqued?
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on October 06, 2015, 03:25:57 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_06_10_15_2_23_24.jpeg)
Is the Axle nut pulled up tight in this picture?
My 2003 FZ1 axle is 4 or 5 threads further exposed.
The other pictures are in agreement with mine.
Cheers
Harvy
Yes, it is tight. And still plenty thread under axle block.
Today after road test I can tell: success!!! :yahoo:
I visited my local garage and laser test says that between CS sprocket and rear sprocket is 1-2 mm misalignment so in future I will mill down rear sprocket holder. Or should I leave it?
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on October 07, 2015, 01:50:57 PM
Yes, it is tight. And still plenty thread under axle block.
Today after road test I can tell: success!!! :yahoo:
I visited my local garage and laser test says that between CS sprocket and rear sprocket is 1-2 mm misalignment so in future I will mill down rear sprocket holder. Or should I leave it?
Did you flip the wheel sprocket? Are you using the Honda VF1000R c/s sprocket with the outer face machined off so that the c/s nut and washer fit onto the c/s thread?
Harvy
Time for review:
This mode is awesome :shout:
Together with new tyre it is like totally different bike. Especially with passenger.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/4406_28_11_15_11_54_19.jpeg)
Now time to few words about problems which I had:
- noisy chain..... After all, it looks like new chain and sprocket is so quiet that I can hear some howling noise from gearbox, especially on 4th gear on 40-60 km/h speed. I just ignore it now.
- bike is a little bit higher now so I changed sidestand for R6 sidestand. Now is perfect.
- After unscrew one of adjusting screws 1,5 mm further, alignment is perfect. Sprocket alignment - I believe is also OK.
- Rear axle is exactly 34 cm long. So far I don't know if that is axle from Fazer 1000 or other model.... Maybe someone from You know what length is proper?
I have the same set up as you. FZ 1 axle is exactly as yours looks. I don't loosen my axle nut completely when tightening the chain because that axle is tapered at the end. It moves the wheel relative to the block as you tighten the nut. The taper in the axle is what causes this movement. I have never used the markings on the swing arm. I usually measure the distance from the axle block to the swing arm end.
Good tire choice by the way.
No riding, no sun, just rain..... so I have another plan...... Gear indicator. :mail1:
First step is neutral gear position sensor modification. So I have two questions:
-Should I first drain oil from engine before I will remove neutral sensor? Or I can just unscrew it without oil waterfall.....
-I don know what should I use as connectors.... nails or screws. So far my plan is use M2 screws.....
Quote from: MOTOMYSZOR on February 03, 2016, 02:22:07 PM
No riding, no sun, just rain..... so I have another plan...... Gear indicator. :mail1:
First step is neutral gear position sensor modification. So I have two questions:
-Should I first drain oil from engine before I will remove neutral sensor? Or I can just unscrew it without oil waterfall.....
-I don know what should I use as connectors.... nails or screws. So far my plan is use M2 screws.....
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3ADGIU (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3ADGIU)
Not cheap...but probably cheaper by the time you get a reliable alternative figured out...