Do you or do you not blip the throttle on down changes?
Noel
I blip. My smart car has a manual transmission shifted by the computer. And the computer has a blip programmed in.
Blip - habit from racing a 911, it tastes great and it's less filling
Blip- I like to keep the revs close to what the next closest gear down is going to be as it's coming down to avoid a herky-jerky tug on the rear wheel.
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 10, 2015, 09:09:42 AM
Blip- I like to keep the revs close to what the next closest gear down is going to be as it's coming down to avoid a herky-jerky tug on the rear wheel.
Leon
+1
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 10, 2015, 09:35:43 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 10, 2015, 09:09:42 AM
Blip- I like to keep the revs close to what the next closest gear down is going to be as it's coming down to avoid a herky-jerky tug on the rear wheel.
Leon
+1
+2
I blip all the time. It's force of habit, and helps to make the downshifts smoother on the transmission, chain, and rear tire.
On most bikes yes.
On my SV1000 I put in a slipper clutch and there is a fun giggle factor in banging downshifts and not having the bike dance around. Thinking about installing a quickshifter simply to add even more giggl etime to a quick ride.
Blip all the time, motorcycles and cars. As others have said, force of habit and that is how I was taught to use a manual transmission.
Fred
Always blip, especially when dropping a couple gears for kookaloo zone, have been trying to teach my daughter but its a very hard thing to teach as timing is everything when it comes to blipping the throttle for downshifts. I find my FJ wont drop down smooth if I dont.
Its such second nature that its not even something I'm aware of doing. Wait...do I blip??? I'll go for a ride and report back! :good2:
Yes blip ...on my cars and bike , I can hear the song in my head " heel toe doh see doh"
In an attempt to prevent this topic from bloating to multiple pages with essentially the same answer from everyone, I'd like to rephrase the original question to what we really want to know:
Who does NOT blip the throttle when downshifting and why not?
I blip for downshifts when I'm trying to maintain velocity such as when passing,
I usually don't downshift to slow down using engine braking, that's what brakes are for.
When coming to a stop, I typically don't blip the throttle but will delay gear changes until I reach a slow enough speed that avoids clunking.
If you run the twisties HARD, like I do sometimes ( I know a bunch of members on here do ) , with the FJ it is almost mandatory that you blip the throttle during downshifts.
The back end would be dancing all over the road if I didn't. During braking into a corner, I try to anticipate at what gear and at what rpm I want when I start rolling on the throttle on exit.
Sometimes the FJ just doesn't care, with so much torque, if I don't get it quite right. :good2:
For cornering I practice on smooth... Pick my entry speed, roll the throttle on as I enter, then on to the next turn... No brakes if done properly. I know there is no trophy at the end so I don't race to my destination. Not a lot of gear changes with the FJ, 3rd and or 4th unless I am on the slab, then looking for 6th gear.... 18/38 gearing is still too low for the slab......
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on April 10, 2015, 01:36:13 PM
,
I usually don't downshift to slow down using engine braking, that's what brakes are for.
When coming to a stop, I typically don't blip the throttle but will delay gear changes until I reach a slow enough speed that avoids clunking.
The problem I have with this, is that if you are still in 4th or 5th coming up to your stop, but still carrying some speed, you are nowhere near in the right gear for acceleration , if and when, an "oh shit" moment comes at you. Basically, you become a sitting duck without your option to maneuver / power out of a bad situation.
Thanks for pointing that out!
I never come to a stop in a high gear just for the reason you state (unless it's a panic stop situation).
I downshift, I just don't try to get to first gear while I'm still going 50 mph but I do try to keep it in an "appropriate" gear while slowing down.
When I think I'm slow enough to make the next downshift without clunking the trans, I go ahead and do it. By the time I stop, I'm in first or, at worst, second gear.
Quote from: Firehawk068 on April 10, 2015, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 10, 2015, 09:35:43 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on April 10, 2015, 09:09:42 AM
Blip- I like to keep the revs close to what the next closest gear down is going to be as it's coming down to avoid a herky-jerky tug on the rear wheel.
Leon
+1
+2
I blip all the time. It's force of habit, and helps to make the downshifts smoother on the transmission, chain, and rear tire.
+3
Ive a habit of letting the motor wind down 500rpm on an upshift.
Ok lets open the flood gates. Who cares to define what blipping the throttle is.
Quote from: wildfire on April 10, 2015, 10:36:23 PM
Ok lets open the flood gates. Who cares to define what blipping the throttle is.
I took it to be rev-matching. Drove a Formula Ford at Laguna Seca...NO syncros in that bad boy. :shok:
A blip on the throttle is a short, sharp twist (or in the case of a car a depression) of the throttle to spin the engine revs to the same as needed for the gear you are about to select, to limit compression braking. I do it all the time in anything with a manual gear box. (Bikes, cars, trucks) I learned to drive in a 1965 Holden (Australian version GM) with a 3 speed "Crash" box with no syncros (very similar to pic except blue) so it was the only way you were down shifting gears. Habit that I kept and like
It all started because our brakes sucked.
Back in the olden days we had drum brakes on our bikes... and cars. These puppies would be prone to overheating if you even looked at them wrong. Downshifting was mandatory allowing the engine compression to slow the car or bike, saving the brake shoes for times when you really needed them. Even then it was a 50/50 chance you would be presented with less than optimum braking. As Capn Ron indicated above, this was also the time when gear syncros were not fully developed and down shifting required you to rev match the tranny gears. Failure to do so would cause 1 of 2 things to happen, 1 you would not be able to get the tranny shifted into the lower gear, or 2 a god awful bone shaking crunch would occur.
In today's age of DCT paddle shifters and auto blip drive by wire systems, alas, the art of heel toe downshifting is lost.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 10, 2015, 11:44:19 PM
...alas, the art of heel toe downshifting is lost.
Drama queen... It's not lost Pat, just exists in diminishing populations. Vintage racers will remember it at the very least for decades. And you can always play video games...
"Blipping", if it is rev matching, is how you maximize your traction and minimize upsetting the chassis. You're not going to be very smooth if you don't do it routinely.
Frank
So I have been blipping for all these years and never knew it had a name. I was not told to do it. It just came natural and made sense to avoid the jerky movement.
Quote from: wildfire on April 11, 2015, 08:19:17 AM
So I have been blipping for all these years and never knew it had a name. I was not told to do it. It just came natural and made sense to avoid the jerky movement.
This is something I was not even consciously aware I was doing. Over the years it has become completely automatic. Dave
blipping the throttle causes the input shaft (attched to the crankshaft through the gears) to increase it's speed (this must be done with the clutch plates disengaged - lever in), in order to match up more closely with the output shaft (attached to the chain via the clutch) so that there is a smoother transition from the higher gear to the lower one. Syncros were designed to alleviate the need for this, although many folks with syncros continue to do it to save wear on the syncros themselves.
Goodness I've been blipping ever since I was a young bloke and I haven't ever had gearbox or clutch problems with any of my rides and I'm going to continue blipping even if I do go blind :wacko2:
Quote from: Flynt on April 10, 2015, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 10, 2015, 11:44:19 PM
...alas, the art of heel toe downshifting is lost.
Drama queen... It's not lost Pat, just exists in diminishing populations. Vintage racers will remember it at the very least for decades. And you can always play video games...
"Blipping", if it is rev matching, is how you maximize your traction and minimize upsetting the chassis. You're not going to be very smooth if you don't do it routinely.
Frank
Blipping the throttle
while applying the front brake, now
that's art!
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 13, 2015, 07:26:47 AM
Blipping the throttle while applying the front brake, now that's art!
Isn't that most of the time? If you're washing off speed with the brakes, you need to be changing down gears as the bike slows.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on April 13, 2015, 09:41:12 AM
Quote from: Dads_FJ on April 13, 2015, 07:26:47 AM
Blipping the throttle while applying the front brake, now that's art!
Isn't that most of the time? If you're washing off speed with the brakes, you need to be changing down gears as the bike slows.
Noel
For you and me and probably most on this list, but I hate to make any assumptions. I'd guess there's some who alternate between blipping and braking.
But that doesn't change my opinion that I think this learned trick is neato.
Ok, I think I might be the only here who........ Doesn't blip! I just have my own riding style, suits me, no probs at all. After reading all this I might have to give it a go to see what I'm missing out on :biggrin:
Quote from: X-Ray on April 15, 2015, 07:13:24 PM
Ok, I think I might be the only here who........ Doesn't blip! I just have my own riding style, suits me, no probs at all. After reading all this I might have to give it a go to see what I'm missing out on :biggrin:
Hmmmmm.
Noel
On a side note: I just watched the Moto2 race from COTA. They talk about how Sam Lowes (spoiler - winner) DOESN'T blip the throttle at the end of the back straight. In slow motion at 175 mph he jams it down the last three gears into 1st, then releases the clutch, like they used to do in the 2 stroke era.
As these bikes have no traction control and minimal engine electronics, I'm guessing the only thing keeping that bike upright is the slipper clutch - or whatever alien technology Honda installed in the engines.
Amazing to watch if you haven't seen it yet.
I don't suppose anyone has tried that one yet? (popcorn)
That's what a slipper clutch was invented for.
You don't have to blip the throttle with a slipper. Not sure that technology was available in the 2 stroke era.
Non racer bikes need to match the revs with the speed, thus the need to blip the throttle.
So if the clutch takes care of all that, is it just a matter of rider preference when racing? As he seems to be the only one doing it, what advantage could it give him? Or is he just a maniac?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OjDod5yJdz4 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OjDod5yJdz4)
Using the right combo of smooth downshifts and brakes (with a 90/10 emphasis on front brakes over rear) is the smoothest fastest deceleration possible. Just like careful application of the rear brake can help settle suspension, so much so that racers sometimes drag the rear brake to settle the bike into a corner. The inclusion of engine braking (via smooth downshifts - or just being at the right rpm for the corner with the clutch out) also keeps the bike settled and planted under deceleration. This is particularly useful approaching corner entry and is sometimes a superior technique to dragging the rear. Trail braking, engine braking and dragging the rear brake are all about preventing the rear from skittering around approaching corner entry and into the corner itself...
Blipping the throttle to keep the downshift smooth plays directly into the need and desire to keep the suspension settled under heavy deceleration....
Keith Code Twist of the Wrist
Quote from: axiom-r on April 17, 2015, 12:40:49 AM
Blipping the throttle to keep the downshift smooth plays directly into the need and desire to keep the suspension settled under heavy deceleration....
Keith Code Twist of the Wrist
Ahh yes. that other bible I have yet to read... :sorry:
I was aware of those techniques individually, but when you put it into the context of combining them it makes it even more remarkable. I'm into my 30th yr of riding - I just realized that! Holy Crap! :shok: - and I've never had the opportunity of track days to implement any of these techniques (outside of blipping). Never owned a set of leathers, and I don't think they come in "girthy" anymore.
Theres still time though... :yes:
Quote from: PaulG on April 17, 2015, 01:27:10 AM
and I don't think they come in "girthy" anymore.
Theres still time though... :yes:
This might help.... http://www.ridermagazine.com/motorcycle-gear-buyers-guides/big-gear-for-big-riders-buyers-guide.htm/ (http://www.ridermagazine.com/motorcycle-gear-buyers-guides/big-gear-for-big-riders-buyers-guide.htm/)
Quote from: PaulG on April 16, 2015, 09:45:02 PM
On a side note: I just watched the Moto2 race from COTA. They talk about how Sam Lowes (spoiler - winner) DOESN'T blip the throttle at the end of the back straight. In slow motion at 175 mph he jams it down the last three gears into 1st, then releases the clutch, like they used to do in the 2 stroke era.
I don't suppose anyone has tried that one yet? (popcorn)
Racing technology/riding style often gets quoted here but in most cases has little relevance to road riding.
Noel
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 17, 2015, 09:12:05 AM
This might help.... http://www.ridermagazine.com/motorcycle-gear-buyers-guides/big-gear-for-big-riders-buyers-guide.htm/ (http://www.ridermagazine.com/motorcycle-gear-buyers-guides/big-gear-for-big-riders-buyers-guide.htm/)
Hey they actually do! Good to see manufactureres keeping pace with our bulging population. I've lost 30 lbs over the last while and need to lose that much more to be in a decent "fighting trim". Now all I need is the $900 for a set. Maybe an Xmas present?
Quote from: ribbert on April 17, 2015, 09:33:25 AM
Quote from: PaulG on April 16, 2015, 09:45:02 PM
On a side note: I just watched the Moto2 race from COTA. They talk about how Sam Lowes (spoiler - winner) DOESN'T blip the throttle at the end of the back straight. In slow motion at 175 mph he jams it down the last three gears into 1st, then releases the clutch, like they used to do in the 2 stroke era.
I don't suppose anyone has tried that one yet? (popcorn)
Racing technology/riding style often gets quoted here but in most cases has little relevance to road riding.
Noel
Aww really Noel , You have never pretended you are in the lead at a big race as you ride your FJ thru your favorite bit of road .. :gamer:
we all use race techniques to some degree when riding , granted not all the time but the relevance is there.
Quote from: Mark Olson on April 17, 2015, 03:03:34 PM
Aww really Noel , You have never pretended you are in the lead at a big race as you ride your FJ thru your favorite bit of road .. :gamer:
we all use race techniques to some degree when riding , granted not all the time but the relevance is there.
Haha, of course Mark. My point was, there are extremes in racing with riding style and technology that are impractical and unnecessary on the road, no matter how hard you ride or even when you can hear the roar of the crowd as you shoot to the lead through your favourite bit of road.
In my case, that would include banging it down three gears in a row with the clutch in while washing off 100 mph just to get into the corner 1/1000 sec quicker, knee dragging, remote front brake adjuster etc.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on April 17, 2015, 07:04:08 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on April 17, 2015, 03:03:34 PM
Aww really Noel , You have never pretended you are in the lead at a big race as you ride your FJ thru your favorite bit of road .. :gamer:
we all use race techniques to some degree when riding , granted not all the time but the relevance is there.
Haha, of course Mark. My point was, there are extremes in racing with riding style and technology that are impractical and unnecessary on the road, no matter how hard you ride or even when you can hear the roar of the crowd as you shoot to the lead through your favourite bit of road.
In my case, that would include banging it down three gears in a row with the clutch in while washing off 100 mph just to get into the corner 1/1000 sec quicker, knee dragging, remote front brake adjuster etc.
Noel
Well of course we don't need all that stuff , it would be superfluous Bling for the Fj .. However , how cool would it be to have some of it just in case.
Like maybe :
Linked braking system with adjustable proportioning valves .
slipper clutch for banging the 3 gear downshift. ( I will drop 2 gears but 3 needs some help on the Fj)
A slipper is available for the XJ/FJ Bring your wallet
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/1/49_03_01_11_12_11_59.jpeg)
http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutchrange.html (http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutchrange.html)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on April 18, 2015, 12:56:41 PM
A slipper is available for the XJ/FJ Bring your wallet
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/1/49_03_01_11_12_11_59.jpeg)
http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutchrange.html (http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutchrange.html)
So only another 900 bucks ... cough cough choke ... I don't think I need it that bad.