I've only owned my 84 1100 for about 3 weeks now. It's got 56k miles on it and so far I've had to clean the carbs and synch em. Which helped. Bike still seems weak. Especially on the low end. Any ideas. How do I check valve clearance on the over head cams? I'm a diesel mechanic, but I don't have much experience with over head cams
This will give you an idea. Not hard at all to check clearances. To change out shims you need a tool but not to expensive under 50.00. On ebay there are some good deals on service manuals which helps a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCa556ObEi8
Valve shim tool
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-FJ1100-FJ1200-XJR1200-XJR1300-VALVE-SHIM-TOOL-04110-/361250653045?hash=item541c378375&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-FJ1100-FJ1200-XJR1200-XJR1300-VALVE-SHIM-TOOL-04110-/361250653045?hash=item541c378375&vxp=mtr)
Manual
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Service-Manuals-/141611384201?hash=item20f8b23d89&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Yamaha-FJ1100-FJ1200-Service-Manuals-/141611384201?hash=item20f8b23d89&vxp=mtr)
Intakes .0043 - .0059 in
Ex .0063- .0079 in
George
Thank you. That was a perfect answer to my question.
So basically you want the intake at about 5/1000 and the exhaust at about a tight 8/1000
I took the cover off and glance at the valves. Don't really have time to tear into it tonight. I looked for a cylinder that happened to be sitting with valves closed and they were tight. Again, I just glanced. I'm gonna park it until I can confirm. So, maybe I better grab a ticket for the shim kit line. Lol
FYI, it is better to error on the loose side if you do not have the exact shim to meet nominal. They tend to tighten over time. And remember to balance your carbs after all valve adjustments.... :blush:
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 24, 2015, 04:14:49 AM
remember to balance your carbs after all valve adjustments.... :blush:
Always best practice to make sure valves are correctly adjusted, engine correctly timed , and compression good before making carb adjustments on any engine
Here's the clearance s I got.
Well, assuming those are thousandths of an inch and not hundredths of a mm,
they're not 'horrible', but you have at least 4 exh that need changing.
I'd advise that you try to get all of them on the loose side of the range.
Yam says acceptable lash is 4-6 on the intakes and 6-8 on the Exh.
These do tend to tighten up over time.
I agree with Arnie. If you get into changing out shims you will need a Yamaha shim tool.
To start the learning curve here. The shims are in mm's and are marked on the back side in .05mm increments, as an example 265-270-275 etc. Each .05mm step = .002 inch. Or you can do all the measurements in mm. Not hard either way.
George
Thank you for the info. Yes, those measurements were in thousandths and the engine was slightly warm still. I was wondering how to make sense of those shim numbers and now it does. Thank you. I've also noticed that it has developed a 'tink' noise when it's cold and I start it. Like tapping on the exhaust (from the cylinders) with a pencil. But it seems to quiet down when it gets warm.
Thee reason I've been trying to learn as much as possible about this bike I just got is because I have a feeling I will become extremely well aquatinted with this bike. Lol
I was under the impression that the valves must be checked when the engine is stone cold or else you will get a false reading. Aren't you the one that is close to RPM? Why haven't you stopped in there and asked them?
Quote from: copper on March 25, 2015, 03:04:08 PM
I was under the impression that the valves must be checked when the engine is stone cold or else you will get a false reading. Aren't you the one that is close to RPM? Why haven't you stopped in there and asked them?
** I stopped in there yesterday and got some exhaust gaskets, but I was in my work truck and he was busy so I figured I'd come back at a more appropriate time
Also be sure that the header gaskets are tight as you have too crush those gaskets or they won't seal properly. I hear ya on the work part. :dash2:
If the engine was not cold, like overnight cold then you need to measure again. Randy and or his son Robert will likely tell you the same.
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 25, 2015, 04:24:53 PM
If the engine was not cold, like overnight cold then you need to measure again. Randy and or his son Robert will likely tell you the same.
** I kinda figured that, that's why I mentioned it. It guess I was kind of practicing for my future as an fj owner :) I was a little relieved there was at least that much clearance tho.
Quote from: twangin4u on March 25, 2015, 08:47:56 PM
** I kinda figured that, that's why I mentioned it. It guess I was kind of practicing for my future as an fj owner :) I was a little relieved there was at least that much clearance tho.
A warmer engine will have all of its parts slightly larger than when cold. So if your clearances were decent slightly warm then they will open up slightly more. Depending on the temperature the engine was at when you first measured. Even the light thin film of oil trapped between the shim and the bucket will have a minor effect on the gap.... Good luck..
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 25, 2015, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: twangin4u on March 25, 2015, 08:47:56 PM
** I kinda figured that, that's why I mentioned it. It guess I was kind of practicing for my future as an fj owner :) I was a little relieved there was at least that much clearance tho.
A warmer engine will have all of its parts slightly larger than when cold. So if your clearances were decent slightly warm then they will open up slightly more. Depending on the temperature the engine was at when you first measured. Even the light thin film of oil trapped between the shim and the bucket will have a minor effect on the gap.... Good luck..
+1 If you remove a shim from it's bucket and reinstall it or a new shim. Some oil get's in the bucket under the shim and gives a false reading. After taking the first reading and changing the shims, if you want to recheck the clearance. Put it back together and go for a ride. Bringing the engine and oil up to operating temperature. Park the bike overnight to cool then recheck the valves.
Kurt
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on March 26, 2015, 08:44:28 AM
if you want to recheck the clearance. Put it back together and go for a ride. Bringing the engine and oil up to operating temperature. Park the bike overnight to cool then recheck the valves.
Kurt
Kurt
As you mention "if you want to", and I agree to with that. As mentioned by someone else, the trapped oil has a "minor effect on gap". I wouldn't even know if it, the trapped oil, is of consequence. This came up in the past and Randy (who?) stated, as I recall, that it wasn't a big deal.
Usually what I do, after changing a shim, is rotate the cam lobe above the new shim through one or two revolutions, then recheck the gap.
Can't wait for the Ribbert Report on this!
Measure twice on stone cold motor...follow the tables and replace the shims....don't remeasure or you will drive yourself crazy.
When we are talking about 1,000ths of and inch, the pooled oil in the bucket makes a difference...trust me.
As advised, if you do want to remeasure...run the bike first to get those shims fully seated.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 26, 2015, 12:04:34 PM
Kurt
As you mention "if you want to", and I agree to with that. As mentioned by someone else, the trapped oil has a "minor effect on gap". I wouldn't even know if it, the trapped oil, is of consequence. This came up in the past and Randy (who?) stated, as I recall, that it wasn't a big deal.
Usually what I do, after changing a shim, is rotate the cam lobe above the new shim through one or two revolutions, then recheck the gap.
Can't wait for the Ribbert Report on this!
I will respond on this but not sure how much difference it makes. The hotter oil will make a thinner film under the shim as more oil can squeeze out (think honey vs. water) when the cam pushes down on it. I am not sure if the oil film returns to a "Cold" thickness when things are cold again. But if the oil under the shim is trapped, then it all makes sense.
Through manual rotation of the cam, I would assume that the reactive force of the high spring rate of the valve pushing back on the bucket/shim combo against the cam lobe's face, when you fully depress them with the lobe's lift, would be enough oomph to fully seat the shim and displace extra entrapped oil, so that an accurate feeler gauge measurement can be made.
I don't use feeler gauges that are incremented by .0005 inches. What I have been doing has worked for me.
Besides, what does/do factory service manuals state?
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 26, 2015, 12:04:34 PM
Can't wait for the Ribbert Report on this!
I PM'd it.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on March 27, 2015, 08:51:21 AM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 26, 2015, 12:04:34 PM
Can't wait for the Ribbert Report on this!
I PM'd it.
Noel
Yep, yep.
I found it here as well...
http://www.ribbert-reports.com/valvelashchex (http://www.ribbert-reports.com/valvelashchex)
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 26, 2015, 12:04:34 PM
This came up in the past and Randy (who?) stated, as I recall, that it wasn't a big deal.
Can't wait for the Ribbert Report on this!
So, since I am waiting on my new valve tool to arrive this is on point. I called and talked to Randy this morning and he told me you must run the engine up to operating temp before remeasuring the valves after replacing the shims.It has to do with the oil getting under the shim, and the size of the hole in the top of the follower allowing more or less oil to pool and hold the shim from seating in the follower.
He said the chart is the reason you measure and remove and know what shim to replace with. He did say without running up to temp after changing shims, you will not get correct readings and they will be tight. I asked if there was a normal amount he saw and he said there are too many things like oil thckness & condition and the hole in the bucket to know. that is the same thing monkey said too
The link for the ribbert report doesn't work for me, what did he say via PM so maybe we can all benefit from it
Copper:
The link is fictitious, as is the posting about the PM sent. Some of us were amused by them, while others? Whatever.
Anyways, do what Randy tells you to do, or like me, do it the way the factory manual shows. Advice has been given by others to err on the side of looseness, not tightness. If a little oil provides a tighter than desired clearance, it will go away after a little running. Right? Just don't set your valves at the maximum clearance to begin with. :flag_of_truce:
Have fun with your valve lash efforts.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 27, 2015, 02:33:57 PM
The link is fictitious, as is the posting about the PM sent. Some of us were amused by them, while others? Whatever.
Well,
I thought it was pretty damned funny... :yes:
Good for you ^ because...
"There are two insults no human being will endure: that he has no sense of humor, and that he has never known trouble."
Sinclair Lewis
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 27, 2015, 02:33:57 PM
Copper:
The link is fictitious, as is the posting about the PM sent. Some of us were amused by them, while others? Whatever.
Anyways, do what Randy tells you to do, or like me, do it the way the factory manual shows. Advice has been given by others to err on the side of looseness, not tightness. If a little oil provides a tighter than desired clearance, it will go away after a little running. Right? Just don't set your valves at the maximum clearance to begin with. :flag_of_truce:
Have fun with your valve lash efforts.
Okay, I guess I missed it as I am just trying to learn before I try doing the valves :pardon:
I bought a GYSM and doing a lot of reading on the forum trying to gather info so I can learn
Ill stick to the advise I have received and provided by the GYSM
You are doing OK. Its all about learning and friendship. A lot of the members here have known each other for many years so sometimes a little humor, poking and prodding go's on. Sometime this summer if you get the chance drop by a rally and meet some of the members. It's a great way to understand the forum humor.
Good for you on getting a service manual. Sometimes I pull what little hair I have out tiring to help someone that will spend lots of money on "upgrades" or parts and not spend 10-30.00 bucks on a used service manual off e bay. Coffee stains on the cover preferred.. :lol:
Keep asking questions that's part of the learning curve. Nice thing about a motorcycle that was sold for over 10 years worldwide is all the help out there. A surprising number of members here have owned there FJ since new and are a wealth of knowledge.
George
Quote from: copper on March 27, 2015, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 27, 2015, 02:33:57 PM
Copper:
The link is fictitious, as is the posting about the PM sent. Some of us were amused by them, while others? Whatever.
Anyways, do what Randy tells you to do, or like me, do it the way the factory manual shows. Advice has been given by others to err on the side of looseness, not tightness. If a little oil provides a tighter than desired clearance, it will go away after a little running. Right? Just don't set your valves at the maximum clearance to begin with. :flag_of_truce:
Have fun with your valve lash efforts.
Okay, I guess I missed it as I am just trying to learn before I try doing the valves :pardon:
I bought a GYSM and doing a lot of reading on the forum trying to gather info so I can learn
Ill stick to the advise I have received and provided by the GYSM
You missed nothing Copper, PM's are just that, Private Mail, and can't be read by anyone other than the recipient.
The link was obviously fictitious and was either an attempt at humour or to create mischief by someone.
Noel
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 27, 2015, 02:33:57 PM
The link is fictitious, as is the posting about the PM sent.
I can sort of see the humour in you creating a fake link, although a little subtle for the casual reader, but the suggestion I did not send the PM, what's that about?
Please explain.
Noel
Reading and interpreting everyone's answers has helped me a lot. I have a solid understanding of how to go about adjusting the valves on my new bike. Thanks guys
*I suppose this topic has been lived ;)
I have been thinking about the valve shim seating it's self in the bucket. When the bucket and shim go through a heating then cooling cycle. Expanding and returning in size, if this can or will affect the clearance of the valve, until it has gone through this cycle. Also the oil, not only under the the shim but the sides, between it and the bucket. When things get hot the oil thins and this may also contribute to the shim seating in the bucket. These are just some thoughts on this topic and not meant to start an argument. I might be up in the night (it's still dark here as I am posting this, about an hour to first light).
Kurt