I just rang UNI Filter to see who their local agents were, wanting some filter oil this afternoon.
When asked what product I wanted they said they no longer sell it in spray cans, it eats the filter material.
He said if I had no luck finding UNI oil at any of the nearby bike shops, to get one of two other brands he mentioned, also being very good oil, but NOT in a spray can.
Wow! Honesty and service.
Noel
When I ordered my Uni filters from Randy, I was thinking of ordering a can of Uni spray oil at the same time but decided against it because a: they probably wouldn't ship aerosol cans overseas anyway, and b: should be able to source it here easily.
Yeah well.... I went to all the major part suppliers in my area plus a couple of speed shops looking for some, and while some had K&N oil none had any Uni Filter oil. Went to a bike shop in the end and asked them and was told all foam air filter oil is the same, so being fed up with driving around looking, bought a can of Motorex oil filter oil in a spray can.
Gave them a good dose of spray, squeezed the excess out and installed. Seemed to be a pretty sticky oil so will have to wait and see how much dirt they caught when it comes time to clean and re oil them. Pulled the filters off a while ago to check inside the carbs and everything is still nice and clean.
Tony.
I have been using PJ1 spray foam filter oil for about twenty years with no problems. Good to read Noel's post. When somebody tells me something contrary to the norm or standard I always get a second or third opinion. I would like to hear what Uni USA says. (popcorn)
Kurt
I tried to find out how to clean and oil Uni filters and every forum has different ideas. Clean with soapy water, petrol, turps, metho. Oil with Uni spray, oil with any spray, oil with motor oil etc etc
Found this in PDF form from Uni Filter Australia
BLACK FOAM ROAD BIKE PODS
SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS
WARNING
Unifilter road bike pods must be oiled prior to use. However, do not use conventional "foam filter oils" or treatments.
Use only 50:50 engine oil and petrol mix as the filter oiling fluid.
Unifilter road bike pods employ a small porosity foam and, combined with this 50:50 oil/petrol mix, will achieve very high air
flow and dust retention qualities. Use of conventional filter oils will restrict the air flow of these pods.
Oiling
Mix 50:50 engine oil and petrol. Saturate the pod filter foam with the mix and allow to stand
until the petrol evaporates. Wipe off any excess mix from the pod foam, thoroughly clean pod snout and then fit.
Cleaning
Wash out pod filter with petrol or mineral turps then re-oil as above
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on March 20, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
I have been using PJ1 spray foam filter oil for about twenty years with no problems. Good to read Noel's post. When somebody tells me something contrary to the norm or standard I always get a second or third opinion. I would like to hear what Uni USA says. (popcorn)
Kurt
I have no personal opinion on this, just passing on what I was told, straight from the horses mouth.
Noel
Quote from: Bones on March 20, 2015, 05:27:46 AM
When I ordered my Uni filters from Randy, I was thinking of ordering a can of Uni spray oil at the same time but decided against it because a: they probably wouldn't ship aerosol cans overseas anyway, and b: should be able to source it here easily.
Yeah well.... I went to all the major part suppliers in my area plus a couple of speed shops looking for some, and while some had K&N oil none had any Uni Filter oil. Went to a bike shop in the end and asked them and was told all foam air filter oil is the same, so being fed up with driving around looking, bought a can of Motorex oil filter oil in a spray can.
Gave them a good dose of spray, squeezed the excess out and installed. Seemed to be a pretty sticky oil so will have to wait and see how much dirt they caught when it comes time to clean and re oil them. Pulled the filters off a while ago to check inside the carbs and everything is still nice and clean.
Tony.
That's not quite the case Tony. There is "thick" and "thin" oil. The thin is a commercial version of the petrol and oil mix where the carrier penetrates quickly then evaporates leaving the oil clinging to the surface and then there is the straight oil.
The advice I have been given from some one who does know, and he has 9 different types sitting on his shelves and only recommended 2, is to stick with the thick
mineral based oils. After washing, and yes it does need to be petrol or kero (petrol is cheaper) to dissolve the old oil, bath the filter in oil then squeeze out all you can and return it to the bottle for next time. I got the exact same advice from UNI.
The most disturbing thing I find about foam filters is how little dirt comes out of them when I wash them, but then I didn't fit them for better filtration.
Noel
Quote from: stua1959 on March 20, 2015, 06:10:55 AM
Use only 50:50 engine oil and petrol mix as the filter oiling fluid.
Unifilter road bike pods employ a small porosity foam and, combined with this 50:50 oil/petrol mix, will achieve very high air
flow and dust retention qualities. Use of conventional filter oils will restrict the air flow of these pods.
Oiling
Mix 50:50 engine oil and petrol. Saturate the pod filter foam with the mix and allow to stand
until the petrol evaporates. Wipe off any excess mix from the pod foam, thoroughly clean pod snout and then fit.
Stu, this is indeed an interesting development, can you post the link. I would have thought engine oil would pool over time at the bottom of the filter. Foam filter oil is unbelievably sticky, engine oil isn't.
Noel
Noel, hope this works
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uniflow.com.au%2Fcontents%2Fen-us%2FBlack%2520foam%2520road%2520bike%2520pods.pdf&ei=BREMVbyiMoiL8QWMZQ&usg=AFQjCNEs5ezqPQLJCooBBO79NEpxzMuJjQ&bvm=bv.88528373,d.dGc (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uniflow.com.au%2Fcontents%2Fen-us%2FBlack%2520foam%2520road%2520bike%2520pods.pdf&ei=BREMVbyiMoiL8QWMZQ&usg=AFQjCNEs5ezqPQLJCooBBO79NEpxzMuJjQ&bvm=bv.88528373,d.dGc)
There is no date on the pdf and the information is slightly different to the Uni website so still no definitive answer
I recently got the filter pods from Randy. I figured it wouldn't be a problem finding the oil locally.
I tried to find the "UNI" foam filter oil here in Denver area, with no luck. Nobody here sells it. They all recemmended a couple other brands (PJ1, and Silkolene)
I ended up ordering a UNI filter cleaning/re-oiling kit from Amazon for $19.99. It has the aerosol cans.
The UNI-USA website has some instructional videos on how to clean, and re-oil your foam filters. They only recommend foam-filter oil for use on their filters.
http://www.unifilter.com/cleaning-oiling/ (http://www.unifilter.com/cleaning-oiling/)
Engine oil is not "Sticky" enough to stay in the filter foam, or collect the dust and dirt properly. Especially since, as Randy has noted, on our FJs the engine reversion pulses spray a fine mist of fuel back out, and onto the filter pods under certain engine operating conditions.
On their website, in the FAQ page it specifically says "DO NOT" use engine oil.
http://www.unifilter.com/faq/ (http://www.unifilter.com/faq/)
Quote from: stua1959 on March 20, 2015, 06:10:55 AM
"petrol," "turps," "metho"
"petrol mix"
"mineral turps"
:scratch_one-s_head:
You guys have funny words Down Under.
Are we still talking about bikes? Or illegal drugs and gardening?
:biggrin:
Well I ordered the UNI PODS as well from RPM and I did order the uni oil in the spray can too, are you telling me that I should not use the uni oil spray that was designed for these bloody filters, here we go. Everyone spoke of these filters as the next coming and K&N were crap and now there own spray oil eats there foam on there perfect filters. Unbelievable :dash2: I really cant stand modern engineers.
Quote from: ribbert on March 19, 2015, 10:12:42 PM
When asked what product I wanted they said they no longer sell it in spray cans, it eats the filter material.
UNI U.S. and UNI AU may use different chemicals or a different process when making or charging the aerosol cans. The branding of the oils they use is completely different on their own websites.
http://www.uniflow.com.au/contents/en-us/d27.html (http://www.uniflow.com.au/contents/en-us/d27.html) it seems AU uses "Filter Trix" filter oil where as
http://www.unifilter.com/accessories/ (http://www.unifilter.com/accessories/) is branded as "UNI" filter oil
The spray is obviously still sold on UNI U.S. website so there is obviously some sort of difference. As it is not available on the UNI AU site. As shown by the links above.
Mr. Gumby,
Rest assured and use the Uni Oil with their filters and as FireHawk mentions, it works well.
Do not use engine oil, diluted or not.
Also, if when cleaning the filters if only a small amount of dirt comes out, then it should be self explanatory.
From personal experience with two engines and over 200,000 miles between them, there is nothing better; better air filtration and a better breathing engine.
Ride safe.
Quote from: ribbert on March 20, 2015, 06:14:31 AM
Quote from: yamaha fj rider on March 20, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
I have been using PJ1 spray foam filter oil for about twenty years with no problems. Good to read Noel's post. When somebody tells me something contrary to the norm or standard I always get a second or third opinion. I would like to hear what Uni USA says. (popcorn)
Kurt
I have no personal opinion on this, just passing on what I was told, straight from the horses mouth.
Noel
No problem. I believe you. I question what you were told, not you.
Kurt
Quote from: ribbert on March 20, 2015, 06:55:53 AM
The most disturbing thing I find about foam filters is how little dirt comes out of them when I wash them, but then I didn't fit them for better filtration.
Noel
Very timely visit to RPM today for an oil change, filter cleanup and various odds and ends, and of course BS time with Randy and Robert. I remembered this thread when I took the Uni Pod filters off and cleaned them in Randy's sink. It really made me wonder where Noel rides if he doesn't get anything out of his...
This is what was left in Randy's sink from filters that were about 3 or 4 months old, and had no oil on them.
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n41/zoanas/FJ1200/F0B92AA6-8085-4E5C-834A-063D83F11279.jpg)
Thank you Mr. ZOA NOM,
You have just stated the validity of my comment and the experience of others; that is empirically.
Kind regards,
Midget.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on March 20, 2015, 01:21:13 PM
From personal experience with two engines and over 200,000 miles between them, there is nothing better; better air filtration and a better breathing engine.
Ride safe.
Mike, you might have got 200,000 out of the
one engine with better filtration (joke)
I'm not sure I agree that it only takes one other person agreeing with you to validate a theory.
I have no interest in rehashing this subject, it has already been established that the forum has one view and the entire automotive industry another and last time I checked they were not reconsidering their position based on your findings.
Testimonials like this are a nonsense, like people who swear by a particular tyre or engine oil being so good it's all they ever use, how on earth would they know without a comparison and how can a single motorist make such a determination when the effects are long term.
Neither you nor I are in a position to make such a claim so I will back the people who are, the tens of thousands of R&D people spending billions of dollars a year to make such findings.
I was the handling and suspension test driver for Ford Product Engineering for 2 years, I know first hand just how extensive the testing process is. Product Engineering is, as the name implies, where every component of the car is tested, as well as the competitors cars. The cars I was driving were a whopping 4 years away from production and there was no re inventing the wheel here, they were mostly just model updates.
When expensive heavy equipment, long range transport, high performance super cars, aircraft or mass produced vehicles start rolling off the production line with foam filters, I'll listen, being the open minded sort of bloke I am.
Until then, I have to go with the numbers.
Noel
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 20, 2015, 06:34:36 PM
It really made me wonder where Noel rides if he doesn't get anything out of his...
Well ZOA NOM, one can only speculate. I usually average 15,000km a year, no commuting. Last year I did nearly 20,000km. I venture to say I probably ride more unsealed roads than most, I seek them out. I ride in all weather conditions and only ride in the country and do not ride in traffic.
It is possibly due to the clean air we have here, straight off the Polar cap after travelling thousands of miles over pristine ocean.
Maybe it's the high altitude I ride at. The air is too thin to be caught by the filter.
My compressions might be so low from poor filtering that it doesn't suck much air any more.
It could be that my bike is so shiny the dirt is deflected before it can get anywhere near the filter.
Or, perhaps my bike is just "Green" and recycles airborne contaminants, incinerating them and returning them to the atmosphere as harmless gas.
Or, seriously, I have no idea and will not be losing any sleep over it. The engine is a consumable, just like brake pads or tyres, when it wears out I'll just fix it.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on March 21, 2015, 08:27:55 AM
Quote from: Mike Ramos on March 20, 2015, 01:21:13 PM
From personal experience with two engines and over 200,000 miles between them, there is nothing better; better air filtration and a better breathing engine.
Ride safe.
When expensive heavy equipment, long range transport, high performance super cars, aircraft or mass produced vehicles start rolling off the production line with foam filters, I'll listen, being the open minded sort of bloke I am.
Until then, I have to go with the numbers.
Noel
I have to go with the numbers also. The manufacturers of mass produced vehicles depend on selling numbers of said vehicles to stay in business. They have to sell a number to new customers and a number to previous customers who have worn out their previous vehicles. To sell a greater number of vehicles it is not in their best interest to put the best air filters on their product and have said vehicles last longer. To maximize profits it is in their best interest to use the cheapest, most cost effective but adequate air filter--not the best. There are a number of air filters out there better than OEM. Dave
Quote from: ribbert on March 21, 2015, 08:54:34 AM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 20, 2015, 06:34:36 PM
It really made me wonder where Noel rides if he doesn't get anything out of his...
Well ZOA NOM, one can only speculate. I usually average 15,000km a year, no commuting. Last year I did nearly 20,000km. I venture to say I probably ride more unsealed roads than most, I seek them out. I ride in all weather conditions and only ride in the country and do not ride in traffic.
It is possibly due to the clean air we have here, straight off the Polar cap after travelling thousands of miles over pristine ocean.
Maybe it's the high altitude I ride at. The air is too thin to be caught by the filter.
My compressions might be so low from poor filtering that it doesn't suck much air any more.
It could be that my bike is so shiny the dirt is deflected before it can get anywhere near the filter.
Or, perhaps my bike is just "Green" and recycles airborne contaminants, incinerating them and returning them to the atmosphere as harmless gas.
Or, seriously, I have no idea and will not be losing any sleep over it. The engine is a consumable, just like brake pads or tyres, when it wears out I'll just fix it.
Noel
The air is too thin to be caught by the filter? Why would you want to catch air with the filter? Don't you want air to enter your carbs?
I really love the way your mind works.
Hey Noel , don't you have foam filters on your bike . :wacko2:
Since so little dirt comes out when you clean them I wonder how often you clean them .
You are so lucky to have such clean thin air where you ride it must play hell with your jetting.
I clean my unipods at 5k miles and dirt is present when I wash them out. It is a shame I don't live in your world where no dirt builds up on the filters.
You mentioned manufacturers don't use the foam filter due to r/d and engineering longevity warranty concerns but you yourself have them on your FJ. :sorry:
Are you just lonely where you are and feel the need to start a thread and then argue with everyone who posts. :praising:
It's ok, we are here for you. :empathy3:
I have Uni-Pods on my FJ. my reasoning for them wasn't quality of filtration or increased flow but from desire to lose the stock airbox.
when cleaning the air filter I always swipe the bores of the Carbs with a clean white rag or paper towel to look for evidence of dirt getting past the filter. this habit comes from decades of dirt bike riding in dusty areas. To date I haven't seen evidence in the Carbs that dirt is getting past the Uni Pods.
for what its worth....that airbox will never go back on
Scott
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 21, 2015, 03:50:00 PM
Hey Noel , don't you have foam filters on your bike . :wacko2:
Since so little dirt comes out when you clean them I wonder how often you clean them .
You are so lucky to have such clean thin air where you ride it must play hell with your jetting.
I clean my unipods at 5k miles and dirt is present when I wash them out. It is a shame I don't live in your world where no dirt builds up on the filters.
You mentioned manufacturers don't use the foam filter due to r/d and engineering longevity warranty concerns but you yourself have them on your FJ. :sorry:
Are you just lonely where you are and feel the need to start a thread and then argue with everyone who posts. :praising:
It's ok, we are here for you. :empathy3:
Haha Mark, yes I do have foam filters on my bike. I love the induction noise and have 2 plans for the space it has freed up. Frequent removal and refitting is not an issue as we are lucky in that we can still buy unadulterated fuel here.
I use them for the above reasons only (mostly the noise), I am not really interested in the long term quality of the filtration they offer.
If I was that worried about engine longevity, I simply wouldn't ride it. Every minute your engine is running, every mile you cover, and particularly every cold start is killing you motor and taking life off the other end. I would also keep the revs low and avoid full throttle, where do you draw the line between preserving it and using it?
If I planned a 600 km ride tomorrow and then decided against it on the basis of the wear and tear it will add to the bike and the mileage it will reduce it's life span by I have just extended it's life by 600km
but where's the fun in that.
As I said a day or so back, engines are consumables and bikes are toys, just ride them however or whenever you feel like and worry about it when it happens. The fact is, most of us will never wear our engines out anyway regardless of the filters we use or the oil we run.
Hell, I'm on my 3rd motor at only 130,000km, the 4th one is about to be refitted and there is a 5th one in the making, they don't last long enough to care what sort of filtering they have!
The first one got cooked, the second one blew a base gasket and crankshaft seal, the third one was a spare eBay motor (current) the 4th will be the bored and rebuilt 2nd motor and the 5th will be a big bore.
None of this though has any bearing on what technically provides the best filtration, being the topic at hand.
How many of you foam filter advocates have converted you cars over to foam, those engines are damned expensive and tend to do much higher mileages.
Thanks Mark, I appreciate you being there for me, it gives me great comfort :biggrin:.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on March 22, 2015, 07:34:22 AM
How many of you foam filter advocates have converted you cars over to foam...
I've used ITG foam filters on all of the z engines Dave Rebello has built for me (3 now) at the recommendation of Dave himself. He's built thousands of engines for racing, street performance, and daily driver use... so just about as qualified as they come to judge empirically which filtering technology works best IMHO. Admittedly I don't put lots of miles on these toys, so I can't personally say much other than they do get VERY dirty between oil changes (3K mile intervals).
BTW - if you don't care about engine life, run velocity stacks with no filters at all... this give you the best sound and the best performance (Wiz made 3-4 more Hp up top with this setup on the dyno). In your environment the filters are likely not required anyway (no dirt is being captured, so why use them?)
Frank
Quote From Noel :"None of this though has any bearing on what technically provides the best filtration, being the topic at hand."
There we go , now we are getting somewhere ...
Well it seems the group collective has determined that the UNI-POD foam filters provide sufficient air filtering with less restriction for maximum power . They are also easy to install,get rid of the air box , look cool and make a bitchin intake noise when you pin it.
That said , Are they the best at filtration? probably not . A paper filter with non-woven cotton and an adhesive surface inside a closed air box would filter more particles of dirt. It would also restrict air flow and decrease power.
The foam style is not used in factory cars because people have a hard enough time changing their engine oil on time and if they had to clean and re-oil a filter too it would be another warranty problem for the dealership.
Like Noel Said" engine is a consumable and wears out " If you abuse it then it will fail sooner than later .
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 22, 2015, 01:26:42 PM
That said , Are they the best at filtration? probably not . A paper filter with non-woven cotton and an adhesive surface inside a closed air box would filter more particles of dirt. It would also restrict air flow and decrease power.
Like Noel Said" engine is a consumable and wears out " If you abuse it then it will fail sooner than later .
Then they would resemble Noel's "air catchers", which would be better? I'm confused...
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 22, 2015, 01:52:15 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 22, 2015, 01:26:42 PM
That said , Are they the best at filtration? probably not . A paper filter with non-woven cotton and an adhesive surface inside a closed air box would filter more particles of dirt. It would also restrict air flow and decrease power.
Like Noel Said" engine is a consumable and wears out " If you abuse it then it will fail sooner than later .
Then they would resemble Noel's "air catchers", which would be better? I'm confused...
Rick, you are ok using the unipods . Just remember to clean and re-oil them at the same time you change your engine oil.
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 22, 2015, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 22, 2015, 01:52:15 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 22, 2015, 01:26:42 PM
That said , Are they the best at filtration? probably not . A paper filter with non-woven cotton and an adhesive surface inside a closed air box would filter more particles of dirt. It would also restrict air flow and decrease power.
Like Noel Said" engine is a consumable and wears out " If you abuse it then it will fail sooner than later .
Then they would resemble Noel's "air catchers", which would be better? I'm confused...
Rick, you are ok using the unipods . Just remember to clean and re-oil them at the same time you change your engine oil.
Thanks Mark, I forgot the "tongue-in-cheek" emoticon in my previous post. Noel is like a rat on a cheeto when he thinks he's right. Kinda quiet when he gets it thrown back at him.
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 22, 2015, 02:11:54 PM
XXX is like a rat on a cheeto when he thinks he's right. Kinda quiet when he gets it thrown back at him.
C'mon, we're all like that. Selective attention, too.
Example:
Fellow Attendee At Rally: "Hey Steve, remember that post that PROVED you're an ASS?"
Steve (Me): "Nope!"
:drinks:
Steve
Good morning,
I've been away and haven't had a chance to get to a computer.
Noel, as noted by the picture of the dirt that came out of the air filter, they do indeed work & work well.
I see you ride about half the mileage that I do, in fact less than half, and much the same type of riding. Perhaps my engines are longer lived because of better maintenance - while I do not abuse the engines I do use them hard and in any ambient conditions [to support such a statement, I suggest you review the last video which I posted, and others as well].
The '91 FJ that I had I purchased with 27,000 miles on it and sold it with 170,000 plus miles and it still ran very well, it is still used as a daily commuter and no doubt the miles continue to add up - so with about 150,000 documented miles using foam filters it is empirical that they work very well.
Yes, engines do wear out, however there are aviation overhaul manuals that state well filtered air and clean oil contribute most to the long engine life - and these are from the 1930's (!) so Noel you are not stating anything new. In fact, with your claimed long time experience, it is interesting you choose to ignore such sound, basic & long known knowledge.
As far as industry using other mediums of filtration, I believe that Texas Dave's statement is correct and wide ranging. For example, K & N does a robust business selling after market filters - even in the trucking industry changing out a prescribed filters is expedient. However, check the different fleets and see what type of oil they are using to protect their very expensive engines and often it varies from company to company.
Oil? Uh oh, that is a horse of a different color...!
Mr. ZOA NOM, I hope to meet you at a Rally some day; we seem to be in agreement on a variety of topics...
Stay in good humor,
Midget.
Speaking of oil... Just switched from a leftover batch of Delo 400 to Mobile 1 4t motorcycle oil at Randy's suggestion. It was my first dramatic experience with a single change, and I couldn't be more surprised. The bike was obviously smoother at startup and idle, as expected when simply putting clean oil in it, but the "clatter" was completely gone. Once I got it on the road for the ride back home (about an hour ride), I discovered my cruising rpm had dropped by about 250 rpm, and when I filled up for my commute the next day, I discovered my mileage had increased from 40mpg to 44mpg.
Highly recommend the stuff.
(https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/products/motor-oils/mobil-1-brand/mobil-1-4t/products/mobil-1-racing-4t-oil.ashx)
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 09:52:38 AMmy cruising rpm had dropped by about 250 rpm, and when I filled up for my commute the next day, I discovered my mileage had increased from 40mpg to 44mpg.
Highly recommend the stuff.
(https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/products/motor-oils/mobil-1-brand/mobil-1-4t/products/mobil-1-racing-4t-oil.ashx)
Not sure if serious.
In case you *are* being serious, nothing you do to the motor oil will change your final drive ratio. If your cruising revs dropped 250 rpm, it's because your cruise speed was about 4 mph slower. Which would also explain why you got better fuel economy.
In case you're just kidding and I'm too dense to pick up on it unless you include "...it also made my hair grow back and it increased the size of my penis by over 2 inches" then der, ya got me.
That said, I have noticed that my bike makes less valve clatter and shifts much better with heavy-weight Mobil 1 than with any other oils I have tried.
And I also once read that: 80% of all fishing lures were made to catch fishermen. Made me think, and laugh too.
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
Speaking of oil... Just switched from a leftover batch of Delo 400 to Mobile 1 4t motorcycle oil at Randy's suggestion. It was my first dramatic experience with a single change, and I couldn't be more surprised. The bike was obviously smoother at startup and idle, as expected when simply putting clean oil in it, but the "clatter" was completely gone. Once I got it on the road for the ride back home (about an hour ride), I discovered my cruising rpm had dropped by about 250 rpm, and when I filled up for my commute the next day, I discovered my mileage had increased from 40mpg to 44mpg.
Highly recommend the stuff.
[img width=222 height=400]https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/products/motor-oils/mobil-1-brand/mobil-1-4t/products/mobil-1-racing-4t-oil.ashx[/img
So what is the weight, is it 40 weight or? I will assume its 40 being called Delo 400. I run 20w50 and not sure if any oil can keep the air cooled lump quiet!
Actually being serious. The changes I noted happened without any other changes, and I suppose there could could be some variability in the speedo reading, but I don't change the speed that I ride very much, and I constantly watch the gauge, which is why it was noted. I have done oil changes before without any remarkable changes experienced. Prior to the Mobil 1 change, my riding style was consistent, as was the mileage I recorded at every fillup; dead-nuts at 40mpg. Three tanks since the oil change have been at 44mpg, and my riding speeds or style hasn't wavered.
Quote from: gumby302ho on March 23, 2015, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
Speaking of oil... Just switched from a leftover batch of Delo 400 to Mobile 1 4t motorcycle oil at Randy's suggestion. It was my first dramatic experience with a single change, and I couldn't be more surprised. The bike was obviously smoother at startup and idle, as expected when simply putting clean oil in it, but the "clatter" was completely gone. Once I got it on the road for the ride back home (about an hour ride), I discovered my cruising rpm had dropped by about 250 rpm, and when I filled up for my commute the next day, I discovered my mileage had increased from 40mpg to 44mpg.
Highly recommend the stuff.
[img width=222 height=400]https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/products/motor-oils/mobil-1-brand/mobil-1-4t/products/mobil-1-racing-4t-oil.ashx[/img
So what is the weight, is it 40 weight or? I will assume its 40 being called Delo 400. I run 20w50 and not sure if any oil can keep the air cooled lump quiet!
The Delo 400 that I was using was a leftover batch of 30 weight oil that I used in my Porsche race car.
I'm unsure of the weight of the Mobil 1 4t stuff.
Its a 10W-40
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-4t-motorcycle-oil
Price at Wallmart $9.97 per QT.
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 23, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
Its a 10W-40
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-4t-motorcycle-oil
Price at Wallmart $9.97 per QT.
Of course it is, I paid 10.99 at O'Reilly's. Oh well.
For the record, I didn't mean to start a war over gearing vs lubrication, etc. Just reporting my experience. I noticed a change, that's all.
So oil. I have personally never seen an mpg reduction/ increase, nor heard idle differences from oil to oil, but I have noticed a stark difference....
I had been using Mobil 1 red cap when the stuff stopped being sold. I ran out of my stock-pile of it and decided out of necessity, I'd try other oils. I had read, here or elsewhere (can't remember) that some folks use Castrol 10-40 to great effect. It was cheap and I figured, worth a shot. That lasted in my Gixxer for about 8 miles. I changed the filter, filled it up with the stuff, ensured I had the proper level, and took it for a test ride.
Immediately I could not believe it was the same bike in terms of shifting. It felt like I was trying to shift in a box of rocks. I actually pulled over to make sure the level was not way low (it wasn't). I rode it for a few more miles to make sure it did not just need to work itself out. The shifting did not improve. I drove it home, dumped the oil and bought some Rotella-T and refilled/ replaced the brand-new filter (grrrr)... and the test ride was immediately back to my normal, silky smooth shifting bike. I have used the Rotella since, and never felt that ugly shifting again. I'm 99.9% sure that it was the oil that caused my shifting problems. Something to do with dyno vs. synthetics, not sure, but I'm not interested in any more experimentation...
My $0.02
Dan
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 10:52:49 AM
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 23, 2015, 10:49:15 AM
Its a 10W-40
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-4t-motorcycle-oil
Price at Wallmart $9.97 per QT.
Of course it is, I paid 10.99 at O'Reilly's. Oh well.
For the record, I didn't mean to start a war over gearing vs lubrication, etc. Just reporting my experience. I noticed a change, that's all.
That's the stuff I've been using since the full rebuild in 2012. The last time I was at AutoZone, they had some $2 instant rebate on Mobil1 oil that dropped it down to around $7/qt. Whaaaa??? Bought a case of it. :good2:
Has this officially become an engine oil thread now? What's the criterion for that kind of thread threshold anyways?
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
Has this officially become an engine oil thread now? What's the criterion for that kind of thread threshold anyways?
Totally my fault. Let's end it while we still have some credibility left.
Another oil thread? Just shoot me now----Dave :bye2:
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
while we still have some credibility left.
You're talking about yourself, right?
I fell off the Credibility List quite a while ago. If I ever was on it. :crazy:
PS: If you have a Gixxer rear wheel on your FJ, you're a shoe-in for the List.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 23, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
while we still have some credibility left.
You're talking about yourself, right?
I fell off the Credibility List quite a while ago. If I ever was on it. :crazy:
PS: If you have a Gixxer rear wheel on your FJ, you're a shoe-in for the List.
Haha, yup, put me on the list...
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
Has this officially become an engine oil thread now? What's the criterion for that kind of thread threshold anyways?
Totally my fault. Let's end it while we still have some credibility left.
Hey Rick , what else did you do at rpm besides clean filters ? Maybe that is why mileage went up.
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 23, 2015, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on March 23, 2015, 01:53:53 PM
Has this officially become an engine oil thread now? What's the criterion for that kind of thread threshold anyways?
Totally my fault. Let's end it while we still have some credibility left.
Hey Rick , what else did you do at rpm besides clean filters ? Maybe that is why mileage went up.
Replaced several fairing screws. Other than that, it was just a visit to catch up with Randy and Robert. They bought me lunch and we spent the time talking crap about the how the country is falling apart.
For sure, my experience is nothing but a single datapoint in a sea of variables, but I feel very confident about the attention I paid to the variables, and I'm convinced the oil has had an effect that I was able to clearly notice. I asked myself all the same questions that are obvious; how can lubrication affect gear ratio?, Was I not looking at my speedo closely enough to be accurate?, etc., etc., but I have no doubt.
cool , sounds like a good time.
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
..... I discovered my cruising rpm had dropped by about 250 rpm, and when I filled up for my commute the next day, I discovered my mileage had increased from 40mpg to 44mpg.
Highly recommend the stuff.
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
.... Let's end it while we still have some credibility left.
Too late!
This is Karma for your shitty comment about me yesterday, and by your very own hand too, I didn't have to say a word.
I love it, this one's going in the file.
People have previously referred to Randy performing miracles on their bikes but this takes it to a whole new level.
:lol:
Noel
Quote from: Mike Ramos on March 23, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
I see you ride about half the mileage that I do, in fact less than half
Midget.
Good on you Mike, you are lucky man to spend so much time in the saddle, half your luck.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on March 23, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
Mr. ZOA NOM, I hope to meet you at a Rally some day; we seem to be in agreement on a variety of topics...
Midget.
Having just read his last posts, I think you would have much in common.
Keep slogging away Mike, you might get lucky and land a blow one day. :biggrin:
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on March 24, 2015, 06:31:51 AM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
..... I discovered my cruising rpm had dropped by about 250 rpm, and when I filled up for my commute the next day, I discovered my mileage had increased from 40mpg to 44mpg.
Highly recommend the stuff.
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 23, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
.... Let's end it while we still have some credibility left.
Too late!
This is Karma for your shitty comment about me yesterday, and by your very own hand too, I didn't have to say a word.
I love it, this one's going in the file.
People have previously referred to Randy performing miracles on their bikes but this takes it to a whole new level.
:lol:
Noel
Well, well, well... how's those air catchers workin?
Rick & Noel,
Lotta love here.
Get a room! :sarcastic:
Steve
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on March 24, 2015, 08:35:08 AM
Rick & Noel,
Lotta love here.
Get a room! :sarcastic:
Steve
Yeah, Noel's comprehension skillz need some work. Maybe it's the high altitude, and thin air (that won't fit through his filters) that is at the root of it. In any event, I'm in for a romantic getaway, as long as he realizes who's pitchin and who's catchin. :)
Holy Toledo Noel!
What is comparing mileage have to do with such a retort? By your own statement(s) you are very hard on your engines... perhaps you consider it something positive?
My gosh man, if this constant searching the dregs provides for you a particular badge of merit, I concede you win & you win by a large margin.
Again, I suggest the PM department for such nonsense.
Mike Ramos.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on March 24, 2015, 10:16:15 AM
Again, I suggest the PM department for such nonsense.
Mike Ramos.
Aww... where's the fun in that, Mike? We never would have learned about those air catching filters...
Well you know Mr. Nom,
Perhaps you do have a point; also we would never have learned about ad hominem comments while deftly avoiding the subject originally brought forth... repeatedly used as an MO... seems as if hostility knows no bounds... nor does one's impudence...
But alas, I shall defer to the PM's.
Stay in good humor,
Mike Ramos.
I love this forum!!! Seriously guys DO NOT relegate this to PMs----I laughed till my gut hurt and laughed again when I reread this whole thread. This is what this forum is all about. :biggrin: Dave
Quote from: Mike Ramos on March 24, 2015, 11:00:55 AM
Well you know Mr. Nom,
Perhaps you do have a point; also we would never have learned about ad hominem comments while deftly avoiding the subject originally brought forth... repeatedly used as an MO... seems as if hostility knows no bounds... nor does one's impudence...
But alas, I shall defer to the PM's.
Stay in good humor,
Mike Ramos.
I can't speak for my antagonist, but there's not a scintilla of hostility on my end. All in good fun.
(popcorn)
Okay TexasDave, one more attempt...
ZOA NOM you are correct on two points! There is no hostility and it is all in good humor...
However, also correct regarding the antagonist... such tendencies towards truculence... me thinks it best additional comments to the PM department if so inclined...
Okay gentlemen; stay in good humor.
well, i was in the same boat- bought the filters and forgot to order the oil (or the cleaning kit for that matter)
went to a local guy and he raved about this product
cleans in the sink (i like that), its what he sells when people ask for his recommendation
then, i visit here and see this thread
so i call "notoil"
the tech was very specific telling me NOT to use this oil on "uni" brand filters
he said it contains alcohol and they have seen it cause problems on "uni" filters
he said they make a specific product for uni that comes in a green label bottle
i will probly just bite the bullet and shelf this one and buy the correct product sold by the manufacturer of the filter
i also had an interesting conversation with the guy that sold me this stuff about the product in aerosol cans
he said they have to use alot of solvent mixed with the filter oil to get it to flow thru the tiny orifice of the spray can nozzle
this seems logical to my feeble mind but, what do i know, i'm just a sparky
anyone with any input, experience with the "notoil" products?
I run uni filters in all of my off road machines. My go to is and (has been for 15+ years) PJ1 spray on oil and cleaner.
I usually get 50+ cleanings before the filters start to get worn, but that may be due to the frequent cleaning (every ride).
I used No Toil for a while when I won a free case of the stuff and it seemed to work well. Relatively easy to clean and seemed to trap a lot of dirt/dust. I just preferred the ease of the PJ1 products. I never had an issue with a dirt bike filter that was not related to my somewhat ham fisted cleaning methods.
As far as long term use, I recently pulled the filter out of my YZ250 2 stroke supermoto which has been sitting for 3 years due to a seized crank (unrelated to dirt... I low sided the bike early in a race and did not realize that it was leaking coolant...) The filter was still fairly tacky and I would not hesitate to run it as is.
For the record, I currently work in the auto industry, and formerly worked in or owned businesses in the MC industry. Every offroad machine sold has a foam filter, or in the case of some ATV/UTV machines, a foam wrap over a cotton or paper filter. I often wonder why they do this when it obviously does not trap dirt...
Quote from: the fan on March 24, 2015, 04:41:41 PM
I used No Toil for a while...
That's what I use on the ITG foam filters I have. Combined with the No Toil cleaner, the stuff is pretty easy to deal with. You can see it on a dark foam when sprayed on and the cleaner takes the dirt and oil out easily with a short soak. Fully biodegradable and water based cleanup. ITG filters say "don't use water to clean as it will soften the adhesives and make the filter fall apart" basically, but Rebello recommended it and my filters last until I start getting breakdown of the outer foam... from smog exposure I'd guess.
Anyway... +1 on No Toil spray on oil and No Toil cleaner for ITG filters. I don't use it on the Uni filters though... what I use is one of my (many) tuning secrets... :sarcastic:
Frank
*thread drift alert*
Speaking of secrets, Frank, what cams are you going to?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 24, 2015, 07:47:12 PM
Frank, what cams are you going to?
Web Cam 80-291... very similar to the Megacycles, but slightly less lift (.35 vs .375). This will allow use of upgraded valve seals. The Megacycles required stock seals and those puppies were cooked, probably from the dyno tuning exercise. Megacycle turns out to be a headache to deal with, best avoided I'd say. I hope to save the dyno rework until Randy finally sells me his EFI setup and lets me go get it turned.
Any of you guys going up (or down) to RPM anytime soon will see Wiz sitting there with engine out again. Good news is it will be full effect by the WCR... and with a fresh silver paint job!
Frank
I'm heading out there Saturday, Frank. I'll leave a quart of my special oil under your seat.
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 24, 2015, 09:29:04 PM
I'll leave a quart of my special oil under your seat...
To be clear, I'm not that kind of guy... Not that there's anything wrong with it, but share your "special oil" with your significant other please... and hands off my seat! :diablo:
Frank
Quote from: Flynt on March 24, 2015, 07:59:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 24, 2015, 07:47:12 PM
Frank, what cams are you going to?
Web Cam 80-291...
After a bit more research, I'm worried these cams will be too mild compared to the Megacycles I'm tuned for... the grinds they offer with similar timing and duration are even higher lift. I'm going to call Web Cams today and get their advice.
Frank
Quote from: the fan on March 24, 2015, 04:41:41 PM
.....Every offroad machine sold has a foam filter, or in the case of some ATV/UTV machines, a foam wrap over a cotton or paper filter. I often wonder why they do this when it obviously does not trap dirt...
And so they should, that is exactly the environment where foam filters are the best choice. Paper filters alone will not cope with off road conditions.
Noel
Quote from: Flynt on March 25, 2015, 09:12:06 AM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on March 24, 2015, 09:29:04 PM
I'll leave a quart of my special oil under your seat...
To be clear, I'm not that kind of guy... Not that there's anything wrong with it, but share your "special oil" with your significant other please... and hands off my seat! :diablo:
Frank
Now THATS funny!