Hi guys . Need some help with a problem on my 1991 f1200. Just been for a two hour ride here in NZ , the weather is perfect it's 25c and sunny. Got home washed and polished the bike and when I went to start the bike it let me down .there is plenty of power in battery-when tested ,The neutral light was on , the oil lights dimmed as they should and the starter relay clicked , but it would not start . All that happend was a clicking sound for about 10 seconds from the front right hand side of the fairing,. :dash2: would appreciate any help . John NZ
Quote from: Goody on February 15, 2015, 02:55:44 AM
Hi guys . Need some help with a problem on my 1991 f1200. Just been for a two hour ride here in NZ , the weather is perfect it's 25c and sunny. Got home washed and polished the bike and when I went to start the bike it let me down .there is plenty of power in battery-when tested ,The neutral light was on , the oil lights dimmed as they should and the starter relay clicked , but it would not start . All that happend was a clicking sound for about 10 seconds from the front right hand side of the fairing,. :dash2: would appreciate any help . John NZ
OK, start with the simple stuff, what you describe are classic symptoms of a loose terminal (poor connection) at the battery.
If it was behaving normally beforehand, this is a likely cause.
Clean and tighten your connections at the battery and report back.
Noel
Battery terminals are spotless.
Just looked at the Haynes and the clicking is probably coming from the starting circuit cutoff relay , and I think it means it's working ok maybe lacking voltage . Battery has good voltage .
Quote from: Goody on February 15, 2015, 04:47:39 AM
......I think it means it's working ok maybe lacking voltage . Battery has good voltage .
You have in part answered you own question.
If the battery has good voltage and the starter doesn't, it's getting lost somewhere in between. The bad connection may not be at the battery, but that is the most common.
When you say the terminals are spotlessly clean, are they also tight?
The power the starter draws can cause a dodgy connection to fail that will otherwise run all the other things on the bike.
Until you tell me something else, I'm sticking with battery terminals or the wire to the starter. These are the only wires that carry the high load the starter motor demands.
Have you tried jumper cables from another source?
Do the lights go excessively dim when you hit the starter?
Noel
Just because that starter relay is clicking doesn't mean that it is working. The contacts might be worn out and you are not getting sufficent current. I have measured good voltage through relays that did not have enough current. Check that starter relay also. Good luck. Dave
Since you are working on electrical stuff you might want to check this connector. It is on the Left side, not too far from the battery. When I did a quick visual inspection I saw a detail that made me suspicious.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/104_15_02_15_8_58_24_0.jpeg)
Where the two halves of the connector meets there is a small bubble, like it got hot and melted. I needed pliers to get the connector apart.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/104_15_02_15_8_58_27_1.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/8/104_15_02_15_8_58_30_2.jpeg)
Other FJowners have reported this same problem. This is a quick and easy thing to check and simple to fix. It may not be the source of your starting problem, so consider it a public service announcement.
Now get your starting problem fixed...
If it was running OK and all you did was wash and wax it then I would check all the places that water might have gotten into. Especially the switch's up on the bars. Open them up inspect, use some WD-40?, clean as required. As noted by FJmonkey inspect the other connectors including the side stand switch.
Bikes of that era used those spade type connectors and they need to cleaned and inspected. If that plug that FJmonkey has been over heating then check your running charging voltage. If over 15 volts you need to think about a regulator change or mod.
And don't forget to check your run stop switch. During the washing you might have tripped it over to the "Stop" side. :dash2: :lol: I am sure it something simple. IMO FJ's don't like water........
George
Quote from: Goody on February 15, 2015, 02:55:44 AM
Hi guys . Need some help with a problem on my 1991 f1200. Just been for a two hour ride here in NZ , the weather is perfect it's 25c and sunny. Got home washed and polished the bike and when I went to start the bike it let me down .there is plenty of power in battery-when tested ,The neutral light was on , the oil lights dimmed as they should and the starter relay clicked , but it would not start . All that happend was a clicking sound for about 10 seconds from the front right hand side of the fairing,. :dash2: would appreciate any help . John NZ
How did you test the battery? :drinks:
Voltmeter over battery posts shows 12.7 volts
Quote from: Goody on February 15, 2015, 12:27:40 PM
Voltmeter over battery posts shows 12.7 volts onboard voltmeter reads 12-7v . But when starter button is pressed the voltage goes down to zero then returns slowly takes about 4-5 secs
Looks like it is time for a new battery. Dave
hook up a voltmeter to battery and record the voltage drop as you try to start the engine .. If it drops below 10 volts get a new battery .
Before you go buy that new battery , hook up jumper cables to your car batt and run to the fj batt .( DO NOT START CAR , THIS WILL FRY YOUR FJ.) simply use the car batt as your power source and try to start the fj . If the fj starts right up just fine you now have confirmed failed/weak fj battery .
If fj will still not start with car batt assist , your starter could be wasted . Put a test lead from your meter on it and see how much voltage is getting to the starter under start conditions. It should be getting 10 volts minimum . If not your cable to starter or the relay has failed.
A lot of early model FJ's have trouble starting when hot and use a 2 brush starter ,, later model FJ's have a 4 brush starter that is superior . They are interchangeable between the years and you may have a early one in there and need to upgrade to the later model starter.
I know you just went for a ride and washed it and now it won't start , this is classic battery failure for no reason other than shit happens.
Post up what you find out.
Will do this when get home from work . Sounds promising will report back . Thanks
Just for information 3 years ago I bought a brand new gel cell battery. Installed and it wouldn't hardly turn the FJ over. I checked the voltage an it was also 12.7. But under load it fell flat. Called and was sent out a new battery so I was happy. You can have good voltage but the battery will not hold up under load. As Mark pointed out if the voltage falls to 10 or even 11 volts then your battery isn't in good shape.
Quick test jumper from your car or a known source. And after the repair monitor your charging voltage. If you are above 15 volts your regulator will cook your new battery.
George
If you need to replace your battery, consider an upgrade. I got tired of checking my fluid level every 3 months and keeping it on a tender. So I upgraded to an AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) battery. It holds a charge, it is sealed (no maint), and cranks well. Others have been real happy with their Li batteries. 2/3 the size and almost twice the cranking power. How do you think such a small battery can run your phone for a few days?
Food for thought...
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 15, 2015, 04:37:36 PM
If you need to replace your battery, consider an upgrade. I got tired of checking my fluid level every 3 months and keeping it on a tender. So I upgraded to an AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) battery. It holds a charge, it is sealed (no maint), and cranks well. Others have been real happy with their Li batteries. 2/3 the size and almost twice the cranking power. How do you think such a small battery can run your phone for a few days?
Food for thought...
2/3 the size and almost no weight. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on February 15, 2015, 05:01:18 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 15, 2015, 04:37:36 PM
<SNIP> Others have been real happy with their Li batteries. 2/3 the size and almost twice the cranking power. <SNIP>
2/3 the size and almost no weight. Dave
Seriously. I bough one of these from Randy for the Gixxer. When the box arrived, I seriously thought he had shipped me an empty box, they are that light! Anyway, I'm on year two with no complaints yet. If it does not last more than 2-3 years, then I'll switch back to the cheaper AGM I had in it previously.
The Li batteries are smaller lighter stronger, seemingly better in every way and the price for them reflects that: ~50% higher price tag. If I were to get 4 years out of it, (about what I usually get from an AGM battery) then I'd buy another Li. We'll see.
Note, I did buy the proprietary charger for it, which drops the charge down to 80% in winter storage mode. This too was not inexpensive, but, I figured I'd give it every possibility of lasting long enough to justify it's existence in my life...
Dan
Update , got home from work bike would not start under own steam, it still had 12.7 volts when checked at battery poles which are clean and tight. Attached voltmeter to poles pressed starter and reading on meter went from 12.7 to 3.75v . Attached a secondary 12.v supply and the bike burst into life, did this a few times and every time the bike started. Checked connections as per advice and they are all clean and tight bike would only start with secondary 12v supply.
Quote from: Goody on February 16, 2015, 12:20:05 AM
Update , got home from work bike would not start under own steam, it still had 12.7 volts when checked at battery poles which are clean and tight. Attached voltmeter to poles pressed starter and reading on meter went from 12.7 to 3.75v . Attached a secondary 12.v supply and the bike burst into life, did this a few times and every time the bike started. Checked connections as per advice and they are all clean and tight bike would only start with secondary 12v supply.
:good2: :good2:
George
Fantastic! You found the cause of the problem. Now you need to decide which type of battery you can afford. Then you can get back to riding it...
Roger that, no bike should sit around in this weather more so an FJ . Looking into battery types quickly available to me . But Morrinsville is a small town , don't want to wait for mail order. Will keep you updated. Thanks for your help, Monkey. Texas ,Dave , and ribbert, apologies if I've missed anyone . John