I think this has been asked before, but I could not find anything in the search menu. My friend Jason who just bought a 2003 FJR and will be joining us at the Central Rally, has asked about balance beads for the new tires he is putting on the FJR. He says that the cruiser guys around here rave about them.
I told him that I don't know anyone that has an FJ that uses them.
Thoughts please
Fred
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/49_03_01_12_3_27_21.jpeg)
I don't think this has been asked before and I hope it isn't asked again on this forum. This bead discussion has been going on for 30 years and seems to crop up every couple of years on every motorcycle forum. It is almost as bad as oil threads. There are two opinions in all these forums. Some riders think they are the best thing since sliced bread and some think they are worthless crap. No middle ground. The biggest discussion on these things is on the Avdrider forum. You could check over there but you won't learn anything more than I have said here. Just my 2 cents worth. BTW I agree with Pat. Dave
Why not just properly balance the tire/wheel when it gets mounted? It s not very hard and does not take very long. I do my own balancing with a $40 balancer from Harbor Freight. With the beads you have to remove them each tire change then put them back. Then how do you know if you have lost too many and the beads can no longer provide a proper balance (assuming they really work)?
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 03, 2015, 11:23:53 PM
Why not just properly balance the tire/wheel when it gets mounted? It s not very hard and does not take very long. I do my own balancing with a $40 balancer from Harbor Freight. With the beads you have to remove them each tire change then put them back. Then how do you know if you have lost too many and the beads can no longer provide a proper balance (assuming they really work)?
+1. I hate to add more fuel to the fire on this worthless subject but you have to add the beads before you mount the tire so you don't know how many to add. Plus the tire manufactures will not warranty their tires with these things inside. The debate is still ongoing whether they work or not. Dave
I tried them on my VFR and there was no vibration. Mind you, I have fitted two sets of tyres on the FJ myself, didnt bother balancing them and there is no vibration either ( up to 160 kmh )
Quote from: stua1959 on February 04, 2015, 04:28:59 AM
Mind you, I have fitted two sets of tyres on the FJ myself, didnt bother balancing them and there is no vibration either ( up to 160 kmh )
Same here. I have fitted my own tyres to several bikes, never balanced them and never had any problems. Is it necessary, I don't think so, but I'm sure there are plenty of arguments to say it is..
I looked at these ceramic beads and decided since I have never balanced a bike tyre (aside from using the dot on tyre) they are probably snake oil as the picture above implies very nicely.
As ever though, there will be people who swear by them. Personally, I lost the vast majority of vibes from my FJ by removing the solid engine mount and replacing with a rubber one (1990 3CV) but that's a different story (awful job, but well worth it.)
Quote from: mark1969 on February 04, 2015, 05:02:04 AM
Quote from: stua1959 on February 04, 2015, 04:28:59 AM
Mind you, I have fitted two sets of tyres on the FJ myself, didnt bother balancing them and there is no vibration either ( up to 160 kmh )
Same here. I have fitted my own tyres to several bikes, never balanced them and never had any problems. Is it necessary, I don't think so, but I'm sure there are plenty of arguments to say it is..
I have to agree with the above posts. I've fitted at least 10 sets of tyres in the last three years (friends bikes included) and haven't balanced any of them.
Speeds up to 240kmh plus and absolutely no sign of out of balance behaviour. Tyres fitted to friends bikes ditto, no problems. Pete.
i mount and balance my own tires also, if i miss on balancing i generally don't
notice anything until around 100MPH and up
so i think it is safe to say that when the cruiser guys are "cruising" around town from bar to bar @40MPH- hell, they could fill their tires with lead and it wouldn't make a difference.
then again when "riding" consists of 5-10 mile rides to starbucks, putting beads in your tires is a "modification"
wow, a little Wednesday morning hating - nothing personal here fellas
Quote from: oldktmdude on February 04, 2015, 05:24:47 AM
Quote from: mark1969 on February 04, 2015, 05:02:04 AM
Quote from: stua1959 on February 04, 2015, 04:28:59 AM
Mind you, I have fitted two sets of tyres on the FJ myself, didnt bother balancing them and there is no vibration either ( up to 160 kmh )
Same here. I have fitted my own tyres to several bikes, never balanced them and never had any problems. Is it necessary, I don't think so, but I'm sure there are plenty of arguments to say it is..
I have to agree with the above posts. I've fitted at least 10 sets of tyres in the last three years (friends bikes included) and haven't balanced any of them.
Speeds up to 240kmh plus and absolutely no sign of out of balance behaviour. Tyres fitted to friends bikes ditto, no problems. Pete.
I'm not saying that your wrong, but many of the tire manufacturers disagree with you.
Quotehttp://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/info-center/care-and-maintenance/#wheel-balance (http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/info-center/care-and-maintenance/#wheel-balance)
16 - Wheel Balance
It is essential that tire/wheel assemblies be balanced before use and rebalanced each time the tire is removed or replaced. Unbalanced tire/wheel assemblies can vibrate at certain speeds, and tire wear will be greatly accelerated.
All Dunlop street tires should be installed with the balance dot at the valve. Wheels may be balanced with spoke nipple weights, lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights. Consult the motorcycle manufacturer for approved wheel weights.
Dunlop does not recommend the use of dry or liquid balancers/sealers and will not warrant tires into which these materials have been injected. Tire and wheel assembly balance must be checked with a balance stand or computer wheel balancer.
Quotehttp://www.avonmoto.com/tech/look-after-your-tires (http://www.avonmoto.com/tech/look-after-your-tires)
A question of balance – Despite the most stringent quality programs, most tires and wheels have a 'heavy' spot that can cause vibration through your handlebars and frame. When fitting new tires, always have them balanced – on the wheel – by a specialist Avon Tyre fitter.
Quotehttp://motorcycle.michelinman.com/advice/safety/motorbike-handling-problems (http://motorcycle.michelinman.com/advice/safety/motorbike-handling-problems)
Vibration
The symptoms due to a lack of balancing result in a phenomenon of vibration in a speed range varying from about 55 to 80 mph on the front fork assembly.
Balancing is essential on a front wheel and recommended on a rear wheel if there is a lot of imbalance.
Quotehttp://www.conti-online.com/www/motorcycle_de_en/themes/hidden_hidden_channel/balancing_en.html (http://www.conti-online.com/www/motorcycle_de_en/themes/hidden_hidden_channel/balancing_en.html)
Balancing
Balancing and tyre service are best performed by your Continental motorcycle tyre dealer who has the equipment and know-how.
Ask your dealer to check the concentricity and balance of your tyre/wheel assembly after mounting. Do not use balancing liquids.
Quotehttp://metzeler.com/site/us/tech-and-safety/safety-maintenance.html (http://metzeler.com/site/us/tech-and-safety/safety-maintenance.html)
Wheel balancing
Elastic bodies like tyres cannot be manufactured perfectly round and without imbalance. Therefore always balance the wheel after fitting a new tyre. There are two methods: Static and dynamic balancing. Static balancing can be made without the wheel spinning. Dynamic balancing can only be made with a rotating wheel and also measures the deviation of masses in respect to the centre plane of the wheel. METZELER recommends dynamic balancing for rims over 2.5-inch width.
In regards to using beads to balance the wheel, I certainly don't know if they are snake oil or not. I've never used them before. However, I've mounted and balanced lots of motorcycle tires on various makes, models, and types of bikes; and have always just static balanced them with clip, tape, or spoke weights. With that in mind, and giving the balancing bead vendors the benefit of the doubt that their products work as described here: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/HowItWorks.htm (http://www.innovativebalancing.com/HowItWorks.htm). In my opinion, balancing beads are an ill-advised imprecise solution for a precision issue.
My main issue is that each wheel is out of balance by a certain amount of weight. The above vendor (Dyna Beads for example) assumes that on motorcycles you should need no more than 1 oz. of beads in the front (120mm tire width). I have seen front sport bike rims initially take up to 2 full oz. of weights to balance (shouldn't take more than 1.5 oz IMO). Typically when I see this, I pull the tire back off and check the rim's heavy spot (which often isn't located at the valve stem in these cases). Once I realign and remount the tire, the wheel will balance out fine (so far). The key point is that unless you are using a static or spin (dyna) balancer, you won't know for sure if you have enough beads to balance the wheel. Further, even if you do have enough beads to properly balance the wheel, you do have the potential issue of having too much weight in the wheel. The potential issue here is adding unnecessary unsprung weight. This is of course, a subjective issue as it may not affect most riders, but it is something that should be considered when making a decision.
Another issue I have, is that if the beads do work, they only work when the tire is in motion. For me, this raises questions of how much of an affect this will have on tire wear and overall tire life, not to mention of what are the affects during spirited riding using aggressive braking techniques. Again, a bit subjective, but in my opinion it should be considered.
Thanks for the link because. I have to admit I had no idea what balance beads were. Now I've looked at it I'm thinking LOL WTF?? What's wrong with normal wheel weights, and indeed are they even necessary.
Now that some other technical issues have been raised I guess I can piss on the beads fire a bit more. If the beads are free to move about and naturally find a balanced condition, what happens when the wheel hits a bump and upsets the beads? How fast do the beads find a balanced condition again? What happens when this happens while I am leaned over in a fast sweeping corner? What about the twisty bits I love so much on the Angels Crest where the corners are one after another? I like to know that my wheels and tires are balanced regardless of riding conditions.
FYI, I failed to balance my rear tire once with no ill affect for a few 100 miles. However, my wheels are pre-balanced so when I mount and balance I am only balancing my tire.
Kookaloo all...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 03, 2015, 10:20:16 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/49_03_01_12_3_27_21.jpeg)
I'm sure consciously and sub consciously we all wonder from time to time what some of the forum members might look like in the flesh and it is often a shock when you finally see a photo.
Pat, I thought you'd look a lot younger.
Noel
:rofl2: this thread just keeps getting better.......
Bite me Noel.....<wink>
My back used to hurt on long rides, and even worse, I'd have to stop every 50 miles to take a leak. My old school air cooled shovelhead vibrated to beat me to death while leaking more oil that I could afford, I went without food just to keep the bike running. I could go on and on, you good folks know the problems, many of you have some now - But no more, no more I say thanks to the modern miracle of tire beads!
I've used them on the FJ and they're absolutely superb....
Ahem, actually, they didn't work for me, I ended up taking them out and getting the wheels balanced conventionally. Now every time I get a tyre fitted my (old style) bike shop owner says 'ah Mr Gary, and would you like your wheel balanced the old fashioned way, or the new fangled modern way'. It was worth the 30 quid for the fun they've had I guess. :unknown:
Typical justification reasons in the cruiser and custom forums:
1) wheel weight ruin the looks of my fancy, expensive chrome wheels (usually by the same people who remove front brake rotors so you can see the pretty wheels)
2) weights can come off and damage wheels and fenders and other parts
With all of the vibration associated with v-twin engines, I would be surprised that they would notice missing wheel weights.
S1 E2
Pure worthless crap, for me, at least. Tried them on my FJR a while back, and the front vibes were horrible. Got a Marc Parnes balancer and pulled the tires and balanced them conventionally, and all was good.
Real PITA to get the beads out.
Another vote for snake oil.
When I was working in bike shops, twenty years ago. We did a test, balancing the wheel first, no tire. Then installing the tire and putting it back on the spin balance. Most of time the wheel weights were unchanged with premium tires brands. Non premium brands Kend, IRC, Cheng-Shin the weights almost always need to be changed. Our Spin balance could balance to 1/16 of an ounce.
There seem to be a lot of interesting ideas, that gain traction in the cruiser market. I think most of these riders spend more time talking motorcycles than ridding them. JMO.
Tire beads NO. My Yamaha dealer charges $5.00, with the wheel of the bike. CycleGear does it for free.
Kurt