Hi guys, I feel like I have hit the wall :( installed the new master cylinder rebuild kit and removed the 2 front calipers had to crack them open to give them a good clean. .full of gunk.. put everything back together and did a reverse bleed to get fluid back into all the right spots...no pressure on the brake lever..ummm...did a normal bleed. .still no good. .pulled the master cylinder out and reversed the bottom rubber washer (wasn't sure which way it went on as it flew out when I had to pull out originally, they now face each other)....all back together. .reverse bleed. .still no lever pressure :) ..even zip tied the lever overnight..still no joy...cracked the banjo at the top squeezed the lever and re tighened tbe bolt...still no pressure....not sure how much more fluid i want to keep pumping through the system.... even bit the bullet and went to Peter Stevens service department for advise..they agreed that I had done everything they normally do....as I sit here writing this I look up at the empty fluid containers as they sit quietly taunting my failure....bah humbug I say.... :ireful:
Al (help)
Can be frustrating at times. This link might help. It is not an FJ master but similar. It is a clutch master but close enough to get the idea of how the seals go in. Scroll down to the parts diagram. http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39968-clutch-master-cylinder-puzzle (http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39968-clutch-master-cylinder-puzzle) When you have the master cylinder apart clean it and check real carefully the small hole in the bottom, the small one is easy to get plugged up. Blow some air thought it to make sure it is open. Reassemble.
Details: check all the copper washers at every connection top to bottom. It should bleed pretty easy.
I don't know if any of this will help but sometimes you got to just start over and focus on the details. From experience.. Almost guarantee it is something simple.
George
Here is another video to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xg9J5AaXns (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xg9J5AaXns) Not FJ but very smiler.
Quote from: Allanl on December 30, 2014, 01:21:51 AM
pulled the master cylinder out and reversed the bottom rubber washer (wasn't sure which way it went on as it flew out when I had to pull out originally, they now face each other)....... :ireful:
Al (help)
They should be facing the same way. Wide/ flared/ open end facing the direction of travel so when it's under pressure it expands against the walls if the cylinder.
When refitting the piston, the wide side of the cup goes in first.
Noel
If its new fluid you have used you can recycle it until you get some pressure. Then if you really must, you could bleed it right through with fresh stuff. It is hydroscopic so you should jeep it in a jar with a lid.
I did the same the same sort of thing awhile ago, the bleed through can take a day or more, depends on how much lever action you want to try.
cheers, Gareth
Well that did the trick....I had a spare washer from the rebuild kit which I didn't know where it went. Had a look at the original cylinder and found a washer glued to the end just before the last rubber cup. Put the washer on turned the cup back around put everything back together and pumped fluid back into it and volaire. ..the pistons now pump out..oh that warm fuzzy feeling is back. ..
Thanks guys appreciate the quick responses. I know you have my back :drinks:
Happy New Year to you all
Quote from: Allanl on December 31, 2014, 02:44:42 AM
Well that did the trick....I had a spare washer from the rebuild kit which I didn't know where it went. Had a look at the original cylinder and found a washer glued to the end just before the last rubber cup. Put the washer on turned the cup back around put everything back together and pumped fluid back into it and volaire. ..the pistons now pump out..oh that warm fuzzy feeling is back. ..
Thanks guys appreciate the quick responses. I know you have my back :drinks:
Happy New Year to you all
Excellent! One step closer to re awakening the beast.
Noel
yep, thanks Noel.. this is the offending item..as they say "nothing beats experience"... :good2:
"Almost guarantee it is something simple."
Glad you got it fixed ! Are you about done with all that good weather down there ? :lol: :rofl2:
Cheers George :drinks:
Hi George, just about, the change rolled through about 2 hrs ago, went from 42° to 25° a bit more pleasant. .
Cheers
Al
Well everything is back on the bike...put some fuel in the tank. .pulled the fire blanket out (just in case) and had the young fella ready with the hose..spent the next 3 mins trying to fire it up :( no luck.. I am guessing the fuel isn't getting into the carbies etc but I am not sure.. I am looking at the carbies wondering if I have reached my limit in mechanical capabilities. . I thought I had seen some instructions on carbies under the maintenance section but I cant seem to find it anymore. .any help is highly appreciated as my enthusiasm an pride has taken a slght downward nose dive....
Cheers
Al
Don't despair Alan. Make sure your RUN/STOP switch is in the run position. Take a screw driver and unscrew one of the drains one one of the carb bowls.. Getting fuel ? Make sure your petcock is in the on position. On your 1100 make sure not to run a fuel filter. The hose routing is critical that it is done correctly. Make sure the tank isn't pinching a fuel line. Also make sure your vent hoses are not pinched when routing them down. That's some things to think about in the fuel system. Air, fire and fuel :good2: Again it is probably something simple, don't give up..
Here is a link with some pictures on how to route your fuel line if needed http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9266.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9266.0)
George :drinks:
+1 on what George said.
You did not mention the choke , It must be in the full on position when cranking engine and do not use any throttle with a cold engine.
Quote from: Allanl on January 09, 2015, 07:32:27 PM
....I am guessing the fuel isn't getting into the carbies etc but I am not sure.. I am looking at the carbies wondering if I have reached my limit in mechanical capabilities. .
Cheers
Al
Alan, why do you think it's fuel related? and even if it is, it won't be the carbies. All 4 are not going to fail at once, well they could but it would be about the same odds as winning the lotto, it will be something before the fuel gets that far which means it won't be major.
After not having used the bike for so long it's easy to become unfamiliar with it and overlook the most basic stuff such as George mentioned, kill switch, choke, fuel tap.
If you can establish that it is a fuel problem, that makes it easier for us to help, rather than jumping all over the place with suggestions.
If you reply by 10.00 am this morning, and are available, I can call in today and have a look.
My wife has gone out for the day and left me house painting, I reckon I could just make it down there and back home before she does.
Noel
Hi Noel, your probably right, it will be something simple I have missed. I have gone through the checklist, fuel in, kill switch to run, choke on and hit the start button. Engine turns over but no spark happening. Checked the spark plugs, tried again & still no joy. My guess is that therre is no petrol flowing from the tank through the carbies to provide a spark to start it. More than happy for you to come down and provide a second set of eye's, sorry for the late reply. I am on holidays at the moment so if you have some free time over the next week please let me know I would be most grateful.
Cheers
Al
Quote from: Allanl on January 10, 2015, 10:31:03 PM
.......Engine turns over but no spark happening. My guess is that therre is no petrol flowing from the tank through the carbies to provide a spark to start it.
Al
Allan, that is a bit of a mixed message.
Do you have a garage with lighting? I can probably come down Thursday evening and see if I can help. It seems so tantalisingly close, let me know if that suits.
If you have PM's sorted out on the forum you can contact me via that or text or ring me on 0417353464 or email me at noellangmead@yahoo.com.au
Noel
Unclear on what you found.
Is there fuel in the bowls?
Did you remove a spark plug wire and visually check for spark?
On the 84 do you have to pull the clutch lever in when starting?
Is your side stand switch operational ?
Is the vacuum line attached to the petcock for fuel flow?
Hi guys, thanks for all the advice, yes I am close, checked everything again as per the above, fuel in the bowls choke full on hit the start button. .... after several dozen attempts the beast roared into life albeit for 15 seconds... at least I know it will start now... unfortunately I can't seem to repeat the process and get more run time out of her... I now just seem to running the battery flat and annoying the neighbors and the wife!
Any thoughts?
Cheers Al
Quote from: Allanl on January 12, 2015, 03:26:37 AM
Hi guys, thanks for all the advice, yes I am close, checked everything again as per the above, fuel in the bowls choke full on hit the start button. .... after several dozen attempts the beast roared into life albeit for 15 seconds... at least I know it will start now... unfortunately I can't seem to repeat the process and get more run time out of her... I now just seem to running the battery flat and annoying the neighbors and the wife!
Any thoughts?
Cheers Al
The symptoms you describe could be fuel not entering the carbies at the same rate it is being consumed, it is possibly running out of fuel.
Noel
Hi Noel, good thinking, I didn't put a lot in to start with as I didn't want a fire if anything went wrong. I will put some more in and see what happens. I will let you know what happens.
Al
Put in another 4-5 litres on fuel and kicked it over again. Sounded more promising unti I noticed fuel been dumped all over the driveway. Had a look and it seems to be coming from the bottom of the engine? ??? Not sure why checked the fuel lines and petcock all seem to be dry of fuel no leaks there... back to the drawing board
Well it started :empathy3:
Possible that fuel is coming out of hoses for fuel bowl overflow. You may have bad floats that can sink and flood carbs .
Also lots of crap in fuel causing needle and seat not to meter fuel flow.
I hope fuel stopped leaking after you shut the engine off. Are you using your fuel tank or an aux tank?
Hi Mark, yes as soon as I stopped trying to start it the fuel stopped flowing, thank goodness. I am using the main tank as my fuel source so as you can imagine trouble shooting becomes a bit of a pain.
are any of the fuel connections between carbs loose or leaking ?
Dont seem to be, I cant see anything that jumps out at me
Looks like one of the overflow hoses is dumping out a ton of fuel when the bike is trying to start. Looks like something is stuck open so the fuel has know where to go but out the hose. I have tried giving the bowls a bit of a tap to see if that helps but no such luck. Any other tricks I can try before I rip the tank off again?
No tricks that will work in your situation , with the bike not being ridden in so long I would not recommend trying to ride it out and bounce it around. jump off curb while accelerating. That trick used for normally operating FJ . Yours has been out of service for a bit.
I would recommend identifying which hose and trace to the carb that is leaking. That way you know where to look for the problem in the needle and seat or float height or as I mentioned before sometimes the floats themselves will crack and fill with gas inside themselves and sink to the bottom of the fuel bowl causing the needle not to seat.
You will have to remove the float and shake it and listen for the slosh. then submerge the float in gas so it just covers the top and see if it sinks or fills up with gas.
If the float is ok then is the height set correctly and the needle undamaged and seat clear of debris.
Yeah,
9 years of stale fuel residue in there..............I am reckoning on a strip and ultrasonic clean may be the way to go
Hi Al
Don't give up.
It took me and a (knowledgeable) friend a whole weekend to sort out the carbs on my 84 FJ. Had the carbs off about a dozen times (go real good at it). We cleaned, adjusted floats, changed jets and still couldn't get consistent life out of the bike. It kept fowling up the plugs. in the end the fix was simple, we fitted the original plugs that the bike had in when I got it. The difference was the old plugs were in a hotter temp range. All of the sweat and swearing was worth it to here that sweet 4 kick into life and idle. Who Bloody Ray. That is worth a beer.
Mark
G'day,
When I first got my FJ1100 I had to clean the carbs three times before I got them right, this bike is VERY particular about carb cleanliness. If you do not know where the emulsion tube is, do some research in the carb files as they are very helpful. Only on the third attempt did I clean the emulsion tube.
If the overflow pipes leak petrol after a good clean, the carb seats and needle will need replacing, the ones that attach loosely to the float.
And safety wire your petcock...
cheers, Gareth
Quote from: mr blackstock on January 14, 2015, 11:52:12 PM
G'day,
When I first got my FJ1100 I had to clean the carbs three times before I got them right, this bike is VERY particular about carb cleanliness. If you do not know where the emulsion tube is, do some research in the carb files as they are very helpful. Only on the third attempt did I clean the emulsion tube.
If the overflow pipes leak petrol after a good clean, the carb seats and needle will need replacing, the ones that attach loosely to the float.
And safety wire your petcock...
cheers, Gareth
I have a friend with a large motorcycle collection. His biggest decision before going riding is which bike to choose. He does not own a FJ but does have a FJR and a VMax among many others. All his bikes look brand new and he is meticulous with maintenance. His VMax is 2nd Gen with carbs. Since the VMax is also VERY particular about carb cleanliness and it might not get ridden regularly he drains his carbs after every ride. He has routed tubes from the carbs to the side of the bike to collect the gas when he drains the carbs. With the methanol and pollution additives in what they sell for gas here in Texas this might seem like alot of trouble but alot less than pulling and cleaning them. Dave
Decision made, carbs off and found float 1 hard on and would only go down if I pushed it down, bowl 1 & 2 all gummed up. I think a good clean is in order before they go back. I will let you know how it all goes.
Cheers Allan
Allan, might be a good time to replace the needle seat "o"rings while you're in there. Be sure to clean the choke circuit jets in the float bowl housings. These will cause you lots of grief if they're not clean.
Regards, Pete. :good2:
Alan, while you're in there...do yourself a favor and get the ss screw kit from RPM.
Replace all those soft JIS Phillips screws with much more durable SS Allen's.
You *will* be glad you did...
Cheers
Allanl: PM sent
Arnie
Quote from: Allanl on January 21, 2015, 02:10:14 AM
Decision made, carbs off and found float 1 hard on and would only go down if I pushed it down, bowl 1 & 2 all gummed up. I think a good clean is in order before they go back. I will let you know how it all goes.
Cheers Allan
This is pretty much what I found when I dismantled the Project '92 carbs to investigate the fuel leaking everywhere. 2 of the floats were "stiff", and 3 slides were "gummed" to the point they wouldn't move. Have thoroughly cleaned the bodies now, but I am not reusing any small parts, new kits going in on this job. Slides/diaphrams are all in good condition.
Good luck! :good2:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 21, 2015, 11:03:59 AM
Alan, while you're in there...do yourself a favor and get the ss screw kit from RPM.
Replace all those soft JIS Phillips screws with much more durable SS Allen's.
You *will* be glad you did...
Cheers
Useful kit, and has tons of hardware. +1
Hi George, yep all ordered and waiting for delivery. Everything has been given a good clean.... it really needed it. Will let you know once I have everything back together.
Cheers Al
Well its been awhile and all the parts arrived, the carbies had a good clean with all new parts inside and all screws replaced with stainless allen heads. no spare parts left over which is aways a good thing and after some jiggling and sweating they finally went t back into place. With some more fuel she kicked into life, no more fuel over the driveway. ... yippe. Did some repair work on the fairing, replaced all the instrument lights as well as a new headlight globe, speed bleeders on the front calipers (magic little things they are) we were ready for our maiden voyage. She runs a little low at idle almost stalls at take off but other than that it was pure magic.... we finally got there..... cant wait till I can bring her out again. Thanks everyone for their advice and support. Special thanks to RPM even with the cost of shipping to Australia it was way cheaper than buying through a bike shop here, saved me a bundle. I will put some photos up shortly With a list of things I had to do to get her running.
Cheers Al
great news!
you could change your pilot jets to a size larger, that could help that low-end stumble
Just going back to bleeding the brakes again.
I recently fitted a different underslung calliper to the rear of my Spondon race bike.
These underslung can be a pain to bleed as the master cylinder is above the calliper.
I tried a Mityvac, normal bleeding, topping callipers up with a syringe (both bleed nipples), raising the calliper above the master cylinder.
All to nought.
I Pulled the m/c apart, and cleaned it all up. No joy. swapped the master cylinder for a known good one. Zilch.
The I found my old pressurised bleed system that I bought years ago. It has a cap that fits the master cylinder reservoir and is connected to an air source, like a spare wheel via a fluid reservoir.(not too much pressure though - around 20 psi)
You just connect it all up (you can put fluid in the reservoir - its designed for cars really - but I just top the the master cylinder reservoir level up & keep an eye on it ). Open the bleed nipples and watch all the bubbles appear. I bled it all out cracking both nipples twice (ouch !) to the lower level on the reservoir and bingo I got brakes again.
I think it was an Oxford product.........??