The time has come. Most of the parts have arrived which means I can embark on the front and rear end updates.
Countless hours reading previous threads on this forum and the details & links from UK FJ Owners site have been very informative and should provide the basic reference for this project. I would like to thank both Barry Edwards and Marc Rittner for the inspirational descriptions of how to carry out the Thunderace rear end mods from www.fjmods.co.uk (http://www.fjmods.co.uk). Priceless!
The Basic idea was to use as many parts as possible off the shelf in my lock up. Yes, I'm a bit of a hoarder, aren't we all ? This thread may appear long winded but it is how I approach these things so apologies in advance if I cure any insomniacs :yes:
First to seek attention was the Front end. The existing forks were tired and leaking and need a good service. Being Racetech equipped 41mm types they will go onto the shelf for refurb & use on my CMR framed Period 5 race bike build later in 2015.
To replace them I have a complete front end set up from a 1999 R6 including wheel, triples and brakes. I've already stripped the forks for inspection and servicing. They are a cartridge style RWU type 43mm and overall length is very close to the OEM forks.
Checking the spring rate with a rudimentary measuring device – a set of kitchen scales and a scaled drill press, zeroing the scales and measuring the weight after 10mm of quill movement came out at approx. 3kg which is 0.3kg/mm.
That figure sounds a bit low so I ordered some RaceTech 0.85kg which should be in the ball park. I'll test those when they get here by the above method to see if there is a fudge factor I can apply in future LOL. (they worked out to be 0.4kg/mm by this method.....)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010012_zps3d68c7c0.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010012_zps3d68c7c0.jpg.html)
Stripping the R6 forks it was evident that the dust seals and oil seals were shot and the retaining clips disintegrated with rust trying to get them out. A new pair were ordered then I found a pair in my draw of TZ parts.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010013_zpsc7a3c900.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010013_zpsc7a3c900.jpg.html)
Motorex 10W fork oil will be used in the assembly and an OEM R6 Dust/Oil seal kit came from a local Yam dealer at $29, which I thought was pretty good. I googled their shop to see if they had FJ sets but nothing doing.
I did have to make up a square ended tool to hold the cartridge so I could get the bottom allen bolts out. This was cobbled together from a few bits of square section bar from the scrap bin with one end ground to a bit of a taper that could be wellied into the square hole on the top of the damper assy, with the aid of a torch. It had to be hollow to allow for the rebound adjuster rod.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010011_zpse56ac29c.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010011_zpse56ac29c.jpg.html)
The springs arrived between xmas & New Year. The Fork reassembly was quite straight forward. The downloaded genuine R6 manual was very comprehensive and the only difficulty as such was getting the new seals in. The mating surface for the seal in the fork slider had been cleaned up with a small dremel abrasive wheel which removed the oxidation and the clip groove was cleaned out with a dremel mini wire wheel.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010014_zps14906ae4.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010014_zps14906ae4.jpg.html)
A silicone spray was applied to the area to ease the seals progress – too much as it turned out as my usual method didn't work and after several curses I bit the bullet and ebayed for a cheap seal driver kit. This took 4 days to arrive - good service for this time of the year.
Once assembled and filled with oil as per Mr Yamaha's instructions, the forks were put aside while the main event began............
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010036_zps3a39cc6a.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010036_zps3a39cc6a.jpg.html)
Part 2
Juggling bikes around I got the FJ onto the Hydraulic bench which, not used to such heavy beasts, struggled to raise the bike up to working level. With the bike on the centre stand, the front wheel was chocked up and the rear end ratchet tied down to allow front end removal.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010038_zps68bf6c84.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010038_zps68bf6c84.jpg.html)
Following the Clymer manual the first job was to remove the top fairing which was again straight forward if time consuming, and several bits of plastic dropped away as parts were removed. That will be good practice for the plastic welding kit I bought !
Getting to the fairing inner panels I felt it would be easier if the tank was out of the way (plus it was also time to find out what air filters were fitted !) (Original paper type BTW) This meant the seat and side panels needed to come off too. Easing the panels carefully the LH one was intact but the RH one had the flat locating piece at the bottom missing – more welding but this will need some donor plastic from somewhere.
The tank should have come off easy except the pipe on the fuel filter was playing up. Eventually after much swearing and yanking with WD40 applied it shot off forcing my thumb along the under side of one of the side panel mount flanges which inflicted and amazing Harry Potter like rip across the length of the thumb.
After stopping for some first aid and some more cool drinks ( I sweat like a male menopausal maniac working in the garage at this time of the year) The fairing was finally off and I sat back and admired what could be described as an ugly duckling with its clothes off !
Next job was to remove the front brakes as a complete unit complete. I may re use the original master cylinder which is 5/8" as it matches the clutch master cylinder. The R6 style has a remote round reservoir and is 14mm. I can't see there being too many problems here. Braided lines arrived from Goodridge and as these are twin direct lines the original splitter will be surplus. I noticed that the original horn had been replaced at some stage in its history with a Fiamm type which sounded like a dog farting so I might look at replacing this too.
Next to come off was the two piece front guard and brace, followed by the front wheel. The bars were then pulled off followed by the top yoke (after disconnecting the ignition switch wiring). Removing all the switch gear I found the reason for the Run switch not doing anything – the wires had been cut off and twisted together in the switch so I'll investigate & hopefully fix this later.
Once the top yoke was off I was able to drop out the old forks then the triple clamp.
Offering up the R6 triple clamp I encountered my first problem: The FJ1200 stem is around 25mm longer than the R6 stem. I pondered this for a while and also noticed that the top bearing was also a smaller diameter on the FJ. The R6 triple has an alloy stem & clamp, the FJ's are steel and I wasn't sure that there would not be problems in swapping them over but after some consultation I was assured it should be ok. Both stems appeared to be held in position by a circlip at the bottom below the lower clamp and more importantly were the same diameter.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010042_zpsb77e2dc2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010042_zpsb77e2dc2.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010043_zps89fe0e15.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010043_zps89fe0e15.jpg.html)
I'm fortunate to have a few boys toys in the garage and the hydraulic press was put into good use by first pressing the R6 stem down, which allowed the circlip to be removed, then turning it over and pressing the stem out through the clamp.
The FJ lower triple stem was similarly attended to except this pressed out in the opposite direction as the stem has a step in it to stop it pulling through. The FJ stem was then pressed into the lower alloy R6 triple clamp and the lower taper bearing installed.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010044_zps657946b6.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010044_zps657946b6.jpg.html)
The completed unit was fitted to the FJ and the castle nuts nipped up to hold it in place while the refurbished R6 forks were slid in.
Job done or so I believed. Tightening the castle nuts showed that the steel stem was rotating in the alloy clamp. This was rectified by drilling the clamp through the stem and fitting an M6 bolt to lock them together. I managed to do this in situ.
This was only the beginning of my problems though. Fitting the R6 top clamp required a top hat bush to increase the diameter of the stem where it passed through the top clamp. I first tried machining out the original FJ top clamp to 43mm with a boring bar.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010052_zps4c4fc62f.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010052_zps4c4fc62f.jpg.html)
This proved a waste of time and I should have checked first as the fork offset and spacing is slightly different so I was unable to use the FJ top clamp.
Resorting to plan A I machined up a top hat bush and assembled the top yoke before realising that using the FJ ignition switch was going to create more headaches !
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010045_zpsad409843.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010045_zpsad409843.jpg.html)
I therefore moved on to finish off the easier parts before returning to the top clamp with a fresh mind.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010048_zps6b0a73f9.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010048_zps6b0a73f9.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010047_zps5c34001b.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010047_zps5c34001b.jpg.html)
Some aftermarket bars of Chinese origin were fitted to see how they look. I have used these cheap bars on my race bikes with no issues even crash testing has proven them to be pretty tough. They have a problem though as there is no pull back on them and the hydraulic lines are too close to the clocks for my liking. I also suspect there may be interference with the fitted faring, ho hum !
Part 3
Front Wheel
Offering up the polished R6 wheel (not sure if I should keep this and polish the rear to match....)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010039_zpse8adb9c2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010039_zpse8adb9c2.jpg.html)
the axle slid in nice and easily. As I was planning on fitting a GPS speedo I didn't have to worry about the speedo drive and set about centreing the wheel using the discs and inner face of the fork leg as reference. This worked out that I needed 19mm spacers each side with a 22mm hole for the axle, 29mm O/D to fit snugly into the seals.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010049_zpsc222afa3.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010049_zpsc222afa3.jpg.html)
These took about 30 mins to spin up in alloy on the lathe and I soon had the wheel in and bolted up. Next was the aftermarket R6 front guard that came from Hong Kong. I thought it would be GRP but it turned out to be ABS and needs a bit of finishing and painting later. I also need some collars and grommets to install it properly.
The Blue Spot Calipers were in a reasonable condition, but I thought I would give them a quick clean up. They are supposedly unserviceable but the special tool and seals are available from the UK:
http://www.bikerstoolbox.co.uk/acatalog/Brake_Service_Tools.html (http://www.bikerstoolbox.co.uk/acatalog/Brake_Service_Tools.html)
While I wait for these to arrive I continued with a basic service. Removing the pads and brake line and installing a dummy brake line which comprises and old brake line with one end cut off.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010050_zps8b8dff73.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010050_zps8b8dff73.jpg.html)
I then stick a bastard file in the vice, gripped at the end. I find the calipers without pads sit nicely on the file and prevent the pistons extending too far. Then I hook up the compressor to the dummy brake line and ease the pistons out. Cleaning them and spraying silicone on them before pushing them carefully back in to the body. I usually repeat this about half a dozen times and by the end they are not moving to sluggishly. Then it's a case of cleaning up, fitting new pads and fitting to the bike.
I also remove the dummy brake line and bleed nipple and spray brake cleaner into the caliper body, giving it a good shake and blowing it out with the airline to get the bulk of the crap out.
Here is the front all (nearly ) assembled
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010057_zpsd6a8e3d9.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010057_zpsd6a8e3d9.jpg.html)
Page 4
Back to the top clamp.......
The biggest issue I now faced was with the ignition lock. The mounting centres are different between the FJ and R6 by about half a hole. The R6 is fixed by M8 screws, the FJ by M6. The location of the lock on the R6 is offset to the left and it has a smaller diameter lock body.
This required the FJ lock I was keeping (The R6 lock is totally different wiring wise !) to be mounted on 10mm stand offs, with the lock mount holes drilled out to M8 and slotted. There was no going back from this...........
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010053_zps02544930.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010053_zps02544930.jpg.html)
The photo actually shows 20mm stand offs but these would not allow the top clamp to fully seat. By changing them to 10mm I had to machine the brace between the two ignition mounting pillars on the under side of the top clamp to allow the wider diameter of the ignition barrel to fit.
Thankfully after many hours adjusting, readjusting I got the damn thing fitted and what's more, as a bonus the lock still engages into the headstock.
While messing around with all this I notice yet another problem – the steering lock limits didn't meet – aaaghh, why did I bother.........but this was simply fixed by drilling the ears on the alloy bottom yoke , tapping and fitting M5 cap heads that protruded on the inside to make contact with the segment on the headstock. Sorted.
Next will be the rear end, after a bit of a break to regain mental and physical stamina that is.
I checked the kill switch and found the switch itself to be intermittent. It was carefully pulled apart, cleaned, tested and the wires soldered back and reassembled. One more job done. The clocks were also removed ready to carry out the GPS speedo mod as it arrived yesterday.
Page 5
Swing Arm
Its funny – this is the job I had most information about, but the one I was also most nervous about.
I began by removing the sprocket cover and clutch slave cylinder. Then the rear wheel, swing arm and linkages were removed. This also meant removing the silencers, which meant that removing the footrest mtg plates would help. While I was in the mood the exhaust down pipes & collector box was removed. The amount of cack and grease underneath and around the linkages and sprocket area was a bit unexpected and took me the best part of two hours to clean up.
The original intention was to use as much of the Thunderace hardware as possible. After carefully measuring up of linkages and swing arm mounting points, suspension lengths etc this was looking to be a non starter. To many variables to be completely confident.
So, with Thunderace swing arm in hand, and pivot width measured I started to convert Marc Rittners specs into mm as I've been metrified since I left the UK many years ago!
When I opened the swing arm thrust bearings I ordered, there was only one set and checking up on the order I had goofed up and not doubled up on the quantity ( F*ckwit !) So I decided that for a road bike they would be fine with just the flat thrust washers off the FJ swinger. I had ordered a pair of new end caps though to make up for it.
Now for the machining – first up the bearings need to be pressed further into the pivot. These sat 0.7mm below the end of the swingarm and from Marcs' modified specs I had to add this to the 3.55mm needed to be taken off each end which works out around 4.25mm. Re measuring I opted to use Barrys' 4mm removal to do a first check which would give some leeway.
A press tool was machined up with a 4mm step which would allow the bearing to be pressed in to the correct depth without having to worry about going to far as the bearings do not move freely in the press.
After this the swing arm was set up carefully on the mill to remove the 4mm from each side. A taper plug was turned up to block any swarf getting into the swinger bearings.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010054_zpsad31d9c1.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010054_zpsad31d9c1.jpg.html)
This was the scary part and each side took a good 20 mins to set up for the cut. Once machined the ends were deburred and new end caps and thrust washers fitted. Offering the swinger up to the frame it went in perfectly so I'm glad I didn't go the full 4.25mm after all.
I then went and had a cuppa as a reward for a job well done.
Of course, I had to remove the swinger to grease everything up, fit the chain protector and almost forgot the endless chain, which looked quite new, after a clean up with kerosene. A trial fit of the Thunderace shock reiterated that this was not going to work – all the lnkage widths were off, mounting hole diameters different etc.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010055_zps326453c1.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010055_zps326453c1.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010056_zpsb18f2dd0.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010056_zpsb18f2dd0.jpg.html)
The FJ linkages were cleaned up and inspected but the frame mount needle roller bearings were shot. After doing a search I ordered some of the HK1816 type mentioned on another thread on this forum. Until these arrive I'm sort of in wait mode. I can however fit the rear wheel which will require machining of the sprocket carrier for chain alignment.
Very cool write up Jools, question: What did you do for clearance on the shock spring?
Both my T-Ace swing arms needed a fly cut to clear the Penske Srings, as was mentioned in Marc's write up.
Hey Jools. Fantastic project write up. If we ever have a manshed day in Sydney, I bags leaving my FJ at your place for some weeks prior! :drinks:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2015, 07:31:43 PM
Very cool write up Jools, question: What did you do for clearance on the shock spring?
Both my T-Ace swing arms needed a fly cut to clear the Penske Srings, as was mentioned in Marc's write up.
Cheers Pat.
I'm still using the stock shock and according to Marc Rittners write up, no mods are necessary. I'll let you know if this is the case.
Sooner or later I will have to replace the rear shock so I will probably relieve the swing arm as you mention while I'm working on it.
Quote from: The General on January 05, 2015, 10:14:09 PM
Hey Jools. Fantastic project write up. If we ever have a manshed day in Sydney, I bags leaving my FJ at your place for some weeks prior! :drinks:
LOL, that means you need some work done I'm guessing............... :dash2:
Great write up
Thanks
Man, don't apologise for any "long winded" write ups. WE LOVE 'EM!! Especially with lots of pics.
Some great work going on, would be really satisfying being able to sort out issues on the fly, :drinks:
Quote from: FJools on January 05, 2015, 11:22:29 PM
according to Marc Rittners write up, no mods are necessary...
I have Marc's old T-Ace arm and it is clearanced a bit for the Ohlins that came with it... he must have done that mod after the initial write up. You may want to prep for the inevitable upgrade (as you suggest) as the stock shock is pretty much rubbish. I don't have a pic, but maybe Pat does?
Frank
No, I have no pictures of the "fly cut" other what is shown in Marc's write up, on the Barry Edward's site.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
From Barry's site:
RELIEVE CROSS BRACE – If you plan on using a stock shock, it is not necessary to remove any material from the swingarm crossbrace. But if you intend to use an aftermarket shock (Ohlins, Penske, etc) where the spring may be a larger diameter and extends further down the shock, you will need to machine a relief in the swingarm crossbrace. If a relief is not provided, the swingarm will hit the shock spring and will not lower down enough to have proper geometry or ride height.
Pictures do a better job of showing the problem and explaining the solution than I can. I will provide a simplified explanation of what we did.
First, we flipped the swingarm upside down and clamped it to the mill table, with the axle end clamped up on blocks. Total parts angle is 20 degrees. Cutting head is vertical.
Second, we used an adjustable flycutter set to 3.30" diameter to cut a relief in the crossbrace, extending down 1.125" from the 'top' edge of the crossbrace. We removed as much material as we dared without breaking through the tubing wall.
Note: 1991-1993 shock links have an 'offset' mount for the shock clevis. Cut the relief slightly off centerline (1.550" from left dogbone attachment point). It is best to remove most of the swingarm gusseting material to provide clearance around the shock spring.
It may also be necessary to remove some swingarm gusseting material to provide clearance around the shock spring.
(http://www.fjmods.co.uk/Pictures/MarcRittner/4aShockClearanceCutTH.jpg)
(http://www.fjmods.co.uk/Pictures/MarcRittner/4ShockClearanceProblemTH.jpg)
(http://www.fjmods.co.uk/Pictures/MarcRittner/4bRemoveSABracingTH.jpg)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have the TAce arm on both my '84 and on my '92 and I can tell you that there is a difference on where the cut is made, due to the different location of the Penskes. The shock on my '84 is centered and the shock on my '92 is offset 1.5" to the left (clearance for abs pump) so the cut location is different.
Jools, I agree with Frank, you *will* want to ditch that oem shock, sooner rather later, so I would plan on doing the necessary clearance work now....
I was originally hoping to fit the Thunderace shock as it would probably be an improvement over the stock. The bike it came off was low km's.
Maybe I'll start looking - you guys are going to bust my budget !! :biggrin: But as you say it will be worth it and a bit silly not to tackle it now.
Jools
I have tool and talent envy! :bad:
Looks good...
regards,
Jeff
We all have it Jeff,
just need to let it out the bag................ :smile:
Next Page (lost count........)
I thought I would have an easy day and machine up the cush drive / sprocket carrier. It all seemed very simple, which should have set the alarm bells ringing. Studs out, pop it in the lathe, turn off 4.9mm, studs in and voila, job done.
Getting the studs out was no short event. Each had to be heated up with a gas torch around the alloy. I also had to find some Metric M12 1.25 pitch nuts that would get a beating before the day was out rather than sacrifice the OEM flange nuts. I had two that had been tacked under the trailer for quick release bike stand fittings and the weld remnants had to be dressed off as they fouled the inner sprocket guides on the cush drive plate.
It took about an hour to get the six studs out. Stop for a drink break as its still as humid as a dockers armpit.
Next stage on to the lathe, the four jaw chuck I generally use could not hold the plate satisfactorily with either inner or outer jaws fitted and my 3 jaw chuck just wasn't big enough.
Over to the milling machine and I got to use my new rotary back plate for the first time. Only my T nuts wouldn't fit in the grooves ! (don't you just hate that?)
In the end I had to drill 3 x 10mm holes on 120 degrees spacing in the cush plate between the webs then find some M10 half nuts that would fit in the slots. Into these I fit clamping studs and slid the cush plate over these and held it firmly with 3 flange clamp nuts. The only problem now was how to centre this onto the rotary back plate as a test skim showed it was out. Also I wasn't sure that the inner faces of the cush plate webs, on which it was sitting, were true enough to use as a datum.
Off came the cush plate and I managed to grasp it in the lathe (not confidently) by the centre bearing surround. This gave a good enough datum to work from to machine the rear of the cush plate webs to be concentric. Light skims were taken and I was careful not to stand in the firing line !
Once this was done I could be sure the sprocket mounting faces would true, be near as damn it. The only problem now was to centre the assembly some how. This was achieved my turning up a dolly of the same diameter as the wheel axle with a spigot that would fit into the centre hole of the rotary plate.
Putting this all together I was confident we were going to get the job done. It was now lunchtime. That little lot took 2 hours of set up. (Now you know why these jobs cost so much outside – the machining is easy enough, it's the set up time that sometimes we don't consider.)
After knocking the froth off a few cold ones, I returned to the task in hand. The machining process involved setting up a cut (0.5mm at a time) and rotating the table a full turn before incrementing the next cut until the required 4.9mm of material was on the floor.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010058_zpsd986cebe.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010058_zpsd986cebe.jpg.html)
A quick debur and it was ready to re install the studs – except my Loctite 243 had seen better days and I could not be bothered getting cleaned up, changing clothes and jumping in the car. So that was a job for tomorrow.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010059_zps40afb6c9.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010059_zps40afb6c9.jpg.html)
Instead I continued with the swing arm. According to Marcs' spec I needed to make up some dog bones that were around 95mm centres. I had some R6 alloy ones that were close to that and were 8mm thick. They would be ok for testing so I drilled out the holes to suit the FJ bolts. This is when I found that the stock shock would hit the swingarm with these dog bones, in fact I didn't even get to fit them as with the swing arm resting on the shock they were half a hole out.
I called it a day after that.
Page 7 ?
Going back to the swingarm
But first I had to pop down the Hardware store for the Loctite (and grab a coffee while I was out)
Back in the workshop I ran a tap through to clean up and extend the threads in the stud holes as they would need to be screwed in further. They were also counter bored by 9mm to allow the unthreaded section in the centre of the stud to locate.
Then it was out with the Loctite and in with the studs, which was a far quicker task than removing them. I let them set while I got on with the next part.
(BTW – in between all these activities there was a heap of cleaning and degreasing going on.)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010060_zps82140e24.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010060_zps82140e24.jpg.html)
I had taken some reference measurements before the FJ swing arm was removed. One was from a fixed point on the frame to the rear most axle position. Using this measurement as a guide I determined that 100mm centres dog bone was closer to the mark and would not foul the shock.
I took the original Thunderace dog bones, bolted them together and cut 65mm out of them. Made a jig with bolts on 100mm centres then bolted both sets of dog bones, one on top of the other, to the jig. This would ensure they were both exactly the same length. Then the trusty old stick welder came into play to glue these temporary dog bones together. (My welding is getting much better)
Bingo; they dropped straight into the assembly. So I thought if I stuck the wheel in I could get a feel for how it would sit.
The problem now was I still hadn't received the new bearings for the linkage. The old ones were in bits in the bin so it was a case of turning up a replacement dummy bush to keep everything in place while I assembled it all.
Just at that moment the courier arrived with the new sprockets – including the Honda front 17T that needed relieving on one side. Now these things are hardened and my normal lathe tools just bounced off the case hardening. Here is where the bush engineering comes into play and with the sprocket held in the lathe by the boss on one side spinning nicely, the offending boss on the opposite side was attacked using an angle grinder as an improvised active cutting tool. This took enough of the hardening away when ground flush to the sprocket face to allow me to machine a 0.75mm recess at 44mm diameter for the countershaft nut.
Finally I got it all together, in a fashion, and onto its new wheels for the first time.
But before I rolled it off the centre stand I thought I might need some brakes, just in case. The rear wasn't fitted yet as I wanted to clean up the furry alloy footrest mount plate. The old FJ master cylinder was disconnected from its lines and hooked up to the new Goodridge lines from the Blue Spots. A top up with new fluid and the Mityvac dusted off. I have to say that these have been the easiest brakes I've ever had to bleed through. 10 mins tops to get a good lever. Then all that remained was to drop the bench and take it off the centre stand.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010062_zps32d706ba.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010062_zps32d706ba.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010063_zps00c2721f.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010063_zps00c2721f.jpg.html)
It's hard to say till I can ride it, but nothing looked odd or out of place, other than the new bars which will need replacing with something with more rearward offset – unless I can swap them over.................
I finished early today and feeling a touch guilty I bought the clocks and the new GPS speedo into the house and set to work on that.
Using Tim's (Axiom-R) instructions I was able to get everything in but in my case the Perspex outer face is fouling on the Speedo Bezel and I can't see an easy fix for this. A good place to stop for the night.
Thanks for taking the time to show all of the detail in your modifications. Sourcing the components and doing all of the modifications necessary is enough work, but your added detail and photos are most welcome. This site has been suffering technical doldrums of late and your write up is a breath of fresh air. Keep up the great work! :good2:
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on January 07, 2015, 04:34:30 AM
Thanks for taking the time to show all of the detail in your modifications. Sourcing the components and doing all of the modifications necessary is enough work, but your added detail and photos are most welcome. This site has been suffering technical doldrums of late and your write up is a breath of fresh air. Keep up the great work! :good2:
I try to tell it as it is, warts & all, so anyone else contemplating this can be aware. My machinery was a good investment - I couldn't imagine how I would have carried any of these mods out without this flexibility.
I'm glad the members out there are enjoying this thread. I seem to be as happy doing this type of work as riding these days. It keeps the brain active and the fingers dirty !
Great info and write-up with pics. Always a treat to see someone getting into a Mod .
Keep it coming you are doing an excellent job. :good:
Part 8
Speedhut GPS
After some PM's with Tim I double checked the wiring in the back to make sure everything was clear but the Cover still fouls the GPS Bezel. There are three types of Bezel available so I asked Speedhut if the one I had was the lowest profile and it appears that it is.
I carefully removed the Bezel & machined off as much as I dare (after measuring the thickness) to flatten off the pointed part of the Stealth Bezel. This improved things but its still not good. Removing the Bezel entirely solves the problem, but this is not an option as the Bezel retains the guts of the speedo in place.
With all this messing around, I thought it best to power it to see if it still worked !
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010035_zps2230a259.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010035_zps2230a259.jpg.html)
I was contemplating an O ring under the cover but in the end I resorted to machining around 3mm off the Bezel height. This, combined with removing the glass gave the cover the clearance it needed. A quick coat of semi gloss black to cover the machined bare alloy and it was looking good.
Once it was all assemble it was case of looking at wiring options. I didn't want to run a power cable all the way back to the battery. After studying the wiring diagram I concluded it was possible to hook into the Tacho wires that terminate on screw terminals on the back of the unit. The Brown tacho wire is the switched feed, and the black the negative. To get the panel light connection I cut into one of the unused blue wires from the redundant bulb holder and the red hot wire was spliced into the digital clock red wire (permanent 12 v) at the 2 way connector.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010047_zps86839549.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010047_zps86839549.jpg.html)
In the meantime I set about trying to clean up the LH footrest mounting plate which was a bit furry under the laquer.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010041_zpsf9611f36.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010041_zpsf9611f36.jpg.html)
I tried various methods of cleaning this off but all were a bit of a struggle. In the end I opted to use the blasting cabinet which had very fine India Glass beads and was great for alloy parts.
But when I lifted the lid of the cabinet, a winter of standing around with the old dust in the mix had turned the beads into a semi concrete mass.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010037_zps1a851109.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010037_zps1a851109.jpg.html)
It was an old blast cabinet and leaked at the lift up lid so I decided to treat myself to a floor standing replacement. I wanted a side door type as these would keep their sealing capability better than the lift up lid type. I didn't realise it would come as a flat pack.......
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010038_zps7c4bc68f.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010038_zps7c4bc68f.jpg.html)
The rest of the day was spent assembling it !
Day Z
Finishing off the cabinet assembly of fitting the last few screws that retained the glass screen by climbing inside to fit the nuts while #2 daughter held the screws from the outside. (My arms weren't quite long enough to do both)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010044_zps73b280f9.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010044_zps73b280f9.jpg.html)
The final job was installing the compressed air fitting and loading the fresh India glass bead. The first test was interesting. After about a minutes blasting I noticed that the flexible suction pipe was bending almost closed at stopping the beads. This was fixed by sliding a piece of silicon hose up the inside of the pipe to stop this happening. All was better until with a bang, the air hose to the gun blew off at the gun ! I should have checked the hose clip before I started.
Fixing this problem and continuing when a minute or so later the same hose blew off at the cabinet gland. So I went through every connection to make sure they were all ok this time. I also backed the compressor off to 90 psi for good measure !
The best thing about the new cabinet and new beads is the lack of dust – you can actually see what is going on. Maybe the old cabinet was due for a bead change long ago.......
After a quick 30 mins on the buffing wheel it was good enough for me ?(I'm not into concourse, just clean and tidy will do) so, the footrest plate came out quite nicely
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010043_zps6f78e2e2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010043_zps6f78e2e2.jpg.html)
A bit of hand polishing finished it off.
The next job was to try the plastic welding out on the few tabs that needed fixing. Experimenting first on an old side panel to try and get the gun heat setting correct.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010050_zpsdab1bec3.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010050_zpsdab1bec3.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010051_zps513b6ca4.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010051_zps513b6ca4.jpg.html)
The trouble was it was an old style 2kw heat gun and it kept going into thermal shutdown and not wanting to play again until it had cooled down. I will need to invest in a proper temp controlled one at some stage.
I have great success with a Selleys plastic glue product, which is available from Woolworths for around $10, It has a primer pen that is used to coat both sides of the work, before using what is the adhesive (very much like super glue – watch your fingers) and holding the parts together for around 10 secs to cure. This was really impressive on my race screen after some prick knocked it off the stand at the race track. The screen broke into about 5 large bits and this glue stuck it all together and it held up for the rest of the season – but looked a bit crap.
I tried this on the ABS instrument surround where one of the bottom tabs had broken off, Cleaned up the pieces with brake cleaner and it held on perfectly, which was good as these tabs would be a pain to get in to weld neatly.
Another part missing was the tab under the choke cover on the inner panel, so I glued two plastic M6 washers from my Pro Bolts kit over the broken part and they held too.
For the missing tab off the side panel
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010049_zps175f7517.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010049_zps175f7517.jpg.html)
I cut up and old LC250 side panel which had a right angle shape that would be trimmed and welded on. It started off ok but the heat went into sulk mode again and I finished it off with a gas soldering iron ! It will do, not as neat but I can't see it and its held so far.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010052_zps48c36156.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010052_zps48c36156.jpg.html)
Another day !
I'm still waiting for the relay arm bearings and a reply from the guys giving me a quote for dog bones (Lust Racing) so I decided to begin putting the bike back together.
Front fairing, then make sure I got the GPS antenna in before putting the instrument cover on. Dismantled and cleaned up the seat fairing. Fitted the LH and RH Footrest mounts.
Braided brake hose for the Thunderace caliper. Cleaned up the rear master cylinder and bled the rear brake. Changed engine oil & filter.
Fitted new OEM fuel filter. Now here is something to watch for. The fitted filter was a non genuine item with larger pipe spigots. This had stretched the fuel pipe so it was too loose for the OEM filter. I replaced the section from tap to filter with new braided fuel line, but had to cut back the fuel line to the pump just enough for it to fit on the new filter.
Fuel tank on. Side panels on.
The aftermarket clip-ons I fitted would have to go as there wasn't enough rise and the master cylinders fouled the fairing. I took the original bars to the mill and opened them out to 43mm but I'm still not happy.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010045_zps3a3f29d6.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010045_zps3a3f29d6.jpg.html)
The top clamp fixing holes are half a hole out compared to the R6 top clamp. In fact this top clamp swap has caused more problems than anything else on the build and I should have considered just opening out the original triple clamps to accept the R6 forks ! Its been fun though.
I ordered some of the 4D adjustable clip ons from Danmoto, mentioned on a thread elsewhere. I also ordered some more relay arm bushes from the local Yamaha dealers, which should be here quicker than the HK1816 ordered from the UK.
I also ordered some of the adjustable dog bones, so I can play around with the rear end.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010054_zpsb8311cc5.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010054_zpsb8311cc5.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010053_zpsecdedb15.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010053_zpsecdedb15.jpg.html)
All that is left to do now before I can test ride:
• Fit Relay arm bushes and dog bones
• Fit Exhaust system- new Delkevic Headers, original Staintune silencers.
• Refit Battery Box & Connect
• Fit front guard (bushes and collars ordered)
• Fit new clip ons (not really needed for test run)
It's all coming together nicely. Like others here, I look forward to your first ride report.
As usual its the small parts that are preventing that.
Apparently they are all in transit !
I used to used Millway Kawasaki/Causeway Yamaha that had a local on line ordering system similar to Boats.net etc.
They informed me yesterday that they are no longer franchising Yamaha so that order won't ne going anywhere.
I did fin Trooper Lu in Liverpool that has a similar system so have re ordered through them. He is the dealer I got the R6 front fork seal kit from that I mentioned earlier in the thread, so anyone in Oz looking for local OEM parts online ordering try them:
http://www.trooperlu.com.au/page/OEM-Parts-Finder (http://www.trooperlu.com.au/page/OEM-Parts-Finder)
Tim suggested I add my solutions to the GPS Speedhut Speedo to his thread which I will do after posting this.
Oh I almost forgot - I also have to fit the replacement horn when it arrives, which will be a bit of a task since the fairing is back on Doh!
The relay arm bearings turned up, well I actually picked them up from Trooper Lu's on Thursday as I felt I needed to get out the shed for a while !
They all fitted without any dramas.
While I'm waiting for the dog bones (apparently tracking said they were in transit to my house yesterday............never turned up) I set to trying to repair the damaged chin fairing until I can find another decent one.
I posted some of this info in another link too.
The fairing was cracked in several places with one pretty big crack, and had melted badly on the back end of the LHS.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010057_zps1425415e.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010057_zps1425415e.jpg.html)
I set too first welding up the large cracked section on both sides. I supported this on the underside to prevent any distortion due to the heat and how floppy the ABS becomes during the process. This is the result of the outside. Its quite satisfying when you get the hang of it, but messy if you don't :shok:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010056_zps588b837f.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010056_zps588b837f.jpg.html)
Still a bit more to finish when its cooled down on this side. There were a few small blister holes and edge cracks that proved difficult to get perfect. It is important to "v" the cracks to get weld penetration and debur and clean up the weld area. I used brake cleaner.
For the melted section - I cut off the crud and made a card template up from the good RHS of the fairing. I then offered this up to the LHS of the fitted fairing and marked where I had cut the crud out. This template was then used to cut a repair ABS section fron an old RD350LC side panel. You must use the same material and correct rods for welding or it won't work.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010060_zpsd7bfee06.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010060_zpsd7bfee06.jpg.html)
This repair section was tacked onto the fairing with the selleys plastic glue I mentioned earlier, then welded both sides, supported at the back, allowing the parts to cool down in between.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010062_zpsdfb62319.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010062_zpsdfb62319.jpg.html)
The result was cleaned up and sanded flat and trial fitted. A corresponding mounting hole was machined using a step cutter.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010064_zpscff7f759.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010064_zpscff7f759.jpg.html)
As this was not going to win any concourse prizes, I filled the imperfections with bog, sanded and primed, after masking off the decals. The gave it two coats of Nissan metallic silver/gold I had from my old 4WD Nissan Safari and two clear coats. The colour match is close but a couple of shades on the silver side of the original paint.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1010035_zps863b4857.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1010035_zps863b4857.jpg.html)
Not a bad bodge job. There was one crack on the edge in the front V that I didn't do a good job on as it opened again under the stress of fitting to the bike. I can live with that and its 500% better than when I started - I was going to throw it in the skip. :dance:
I machined up some stand off spacers to allow the rear of the fairing to clear the exhaust shield on the new Delkevic collector box too.
Now, where can I get some original style decals from ?
Quote from: FJools on January 16, 2015, 05:35:53 PM
Now, where can I get some original style decals from ?
We have a decal maker here... Will the decal maker please stand up!
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 16, 2015, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: FJools on January 16, 2015, 05:35:53 PM
Now, where can I get some original style decals from ?
We have a decal maker here... Will the decal maker please stand up!
"Jeff308" makes them.
Noel
Update:
Danmoto riser clip-ons fitted,
98mm Lust Racing Dog bones fitted,
Forks dropped through 10mm to increase front height.
Delkevic headers and collector removed as incompatible with my Staintune silencers. I could buy some Delkevic silencers in the future but these mods were all about keeping the cost down using parts I had on the shelf.
So:
Today, after 4 hours polishing up the original Staintune headers & collectors, I refitted the exhaust.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1310029_zpsi5tzxqv2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1310029_zpsi5tzxqv2.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1310030_zpso21fitvn.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1310030_zpso21fitvn.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1310031_zpsbtxj7zwi.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1310031_zpsbtxj7zwi.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1310033_zpsd15eeqvk.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1310033_zpsd15eeqvk.jpg.html)
It went on like a glove, no leaks no chain issues so took her for her first proper post mod spin around the block.
Its not the same bike (obviously) light to steer and flick around.
I need to go further but I wanted to stick it on the bench and check it all over again first. The chain seems to have a tight spot so have ordered a replacement HD XW type as I don't want to stuff up the new sprockets.
Also not sure if the FJ front master cylinder is compatable with the blue spots - I have new pads to put in first, but I may have to use the R6 master cylinder which will upset the aesthetics slightly.
Also the GPS speedo works a dream.
If I wasn't piucking up a TZ250 V Twin tomorrow to repair for a mate, I would be out to put some real Kms on it :good2:
Quote from: FJools on January 31, 2015, 01:27:55 AM
Update:
Danmoto riser clip-ons fitted,
98mm Lust Racing Dog bones fitted,
Forks dropped through 10mm to increase front height.
Delkevic headers and collector removed as incompatible with my Staintune silencers. I could buy some Delkevic silencers in the future but these mods were all about keeping the cost down using parts I had on the shelf.
So:
Today, after 4 hours polishing up the original Staintune headers & collectors, I refitted the exhaust.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/P1310029_zpsi5tzxqv2.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/P1310029_zpsi5tzxqv2.jpg.html)
Glad it all went back together smoothly. Not that it matters, but those headers look like originals.
Noel
I was wondering where the Staintune component might end - the clamps have Staintune on them so I'm assuming the collector is although no ID marks on it.
I would have thought it odd to fit just the collector and pipes to be honest as its the headers that get most hammer plus the silencers that rot.
I'm assuming the OEM fitment was all stainless ?
You can use the FJR 1300 clutch and brake master to maintain your aesthetics . Handles the blue spots nicely .
Thanks Mark,
I knew there would be something out there.
The other option was a cable clutch conversion.................. :crazy:
Quote from: FJools on January 31, 2015, 02:18:57 PM
I would have thought it odd to fit just the collector and pipes to be honest as its the headers that get most hammer plus the silencers that rot.
I'm assuming the OEM fitment was all stainless ?
Yes, the original headers are SS and I've never seen any rotted out. I recently polished up a set with somewhere around 160,000kms on them and they came up like new.
Noel
Yesterday I fitted the new endless chain (kerching!)
Interestingly there still seems to be a slight tight spot and that is with both sprockets replaced so I'm going to double check the chain alignment to be 100%.
An odd thing happened on the run, which took in about 15km around local roads. I stopped to refuel after which the low oil light was coming on, flickering and going off. As I got home and put the stand up and gear off, the oil was filling the sight glass.
When I did the oil & Filter change I put in about 3.5L, which is more than the 3L shown on the casing. I added another 200ml and will see what happens when I take it out tomorrow.
Blues spots are bedding in, but the dan moto bars slipped a bit when I heaved it on the centre stand so its imperative to keep nipping up each of the 2 bolts in turn on each clamp. They are rubbish soft shallow cap head bolts, which I will replace when I get the chance.
The bike feels very responsive and light with the mods done. I now need to give it some higher speed runs to see what its like under those conditions.
So far I'm a happy camper.
The USB socket has arrived so I may have a go at fitting that tomorrow too, wiring it to that spare plug that is under the left side cover or thereabouts.
And I also treated myself to a new Shark Evoline flip up helmet. Very nice fit and they also do their own Shark Tooth connection system that is made to fit these lids.
Quote from: FJools on February 10, 2015, 03:57:54 AM
Yesterday I fitted the new endless chain (kerching!)
Interestingly there still seems to be a slight tight spot and that is with both sprockets replaced so I'm going to double check the chain alignment to be 100%.
An odd thing happened on the run, which took in about 15km around local roads. I stopped to refuel after which the low oil light was coming on, flickering and going off. As I got home and put the stand up and gear off, the oil was filling the sight glass.
When I did the oil & Filter change I put in about 3.5L, which is more than the 3L shown on the casing. I added another 200ml and will see what happens when I take it out tomorrow.
Blues spots are bedding in, but the dan moto bars slipped a bit when I heaved it on the centre stand so its imperative to keep nipping up each of the 2 bolts in turn on each clamp. They are rubbish soft shallow cap head bolts, which I will replace when I get the chance.
The bike feels very responsive and light with the mods done. I now need to give it some higher speed runs to see what its like under those conditions.
So far I'm a happy camper.
The USB socket has arrived so I may have a go at fitting that tomorrow too, wiring it to that spare plug that is under the left side cover or thereabouts.
And I also treated myself to a new Shark Evoline flip up helmet. Very nice fit and they also do their own Shark Tooth connection system that is made to fit these lids.
Jools, an oil change with filter will require 3.8 litres of oil. Always fill to just below the top of the sight-glass. Check the level after running the engine for a few seconds, allowing oil to fill the filter housing, then let sit for a few minutes and check the level again.
When putting the bike on the centre stand, use the grab handle, located between the bottom of the seat and the top of the side cover (LHS) rather than pulling too hard on the handlebars. Easy once you get the technique mastered. Takes surprisingly little effort, considering the weight of the bike.
Regards, Pete.
Looks really good; thanks so much for writing up the details and pics.
Jeff
Quote from: oldktmdude on February 10, 2015, 05:08:49 AM
When putting the bike on the centre stand, use the grab handle, located between the bottom of the seat and the top of the side cover (LHS) rather than pulling too hard on the handlebars. Easy once you get the technique mastered. Takes surprisingly little effort, considering the weight of the bike.
Regards, Pete.
In regards to the centerstand deployment effort, I have found out that cleaning and greasing the pivot bolts and their receiving holes, makes raising the bike up easier too. Easpecially, if they haven't seen this kind of maintenance in decades. Of course, the lube only lasts so long due to what the pivot areas are exposed to when the bike is running down the road.
Thanks for the 101 on centre stand deployment chaps......... :good2:
That is how I do it, what I was hinting at was with my left hand steadying the bar, it moved slightly and caused me to recheck the clamps.
With single bolt clamps they are fine and simple to tighten, but with these two bolt clamps each bolt has to tightened against the other about 3 or 4 times and there is always a bit more when checked.
If you tighten one up then the other and leave it at that - they will move ! A bit of a balancing act and probably something to do with CNC alloy clamps.
When putting the bike on the centre stand, use the passenger grab handle, (LHS), put all of your weight on the centre stand (rather than pulling too hard on the handlebars) lift on both the left handlebar and the grab handle. Easy once you get the technique mastered. Takes surprisingly little effort, considering the weight of the bike.
At least that is how I do it....the heavier you are the easier it is.......
Quote from: jscgdunn on February 10, 2015, 04:29:09 PM
When putting the bike on the centre stand, use the passenger grab handle, (LHS), put all of your weight on the centre stand (rather than pulling too hard on the handlebars) lift on both the left handlebar and the grab handle. Easy once you get the technique mastered. Takes surprisingly little effort, considering the weight of the bike.
At least that is how I do it....the heavier you are the easier it is.......
I find that shifting my 170+ pounds (77.11KG) on to the center stand while lifting up from the grab location allows me to do this with filp-flop sandals. I don't need to pull the front handles at all, just keeping the front stable. I have also noticed that after I raised the rear end with dog bones, this process got way easier, like I need less than half the effort.
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 10, 2015, 05:02:12 PM
......I have also noticed that after I raised the rear end with dog bones, this process got way easier....
<off topic alert>
Mark, I've been meaning to ask, how's that coming along?
Is there anything I can help you with?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 10, 2015, 06:37:46 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 10, 2015, 05:02:12 PM
......I have also noticed that after I raised the rear end with dog bones, this process got way easier....
<off topic alert>
Mark, I've been meaning to ask, how's that coming along?
Is there anything I can help you with?
Pat, PM will be sent shortly....
Quote from: jscgdunn on February 10, 2015, 04:29:09 PM
When putting the bike on the centre stand, use the passenger grab handle, (LHS).....
Jeff, I take it you mean the lifting handle under the LHS seat, not the the passenger grab handle.
Noel
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 10, 2015, 05:02:12 PM
. I have also noticed that after I raised the rear end with dog bones, this process got way easier, like I need less than half the effort.
Right you are Monkey, I nearly launch the bike through the wall with the shorter dog bones, love it, :good2:
"Jeff, I take it you mean the lifting handle under the LHS seat, not the the passenger grab handle."
No I mean the passenger grab handle....that being said I will try the lifting handle...always wondered why there was one on one side and not the other...never have used it....learn something every day :good:
I find the lifting handle much easier and now I can find it first attempt......
Today I took it for a blast up to Dural to visit a mate, who wasn't in, so I carried on to Galston, down through the twisties to the Berowra waters ferry up the tight narrow twisties the other side followed by a blast down the freeway, along Pennant Hills road and through the Comenarra back home in time for lunch.
No problems handled everything like a dream and rock steady at 120kmh officer.
If anything it seems a bit short in the gears now so I'll fit the 40T rear sprocket. Have also decided to polish the rear wheel to match the front - there is another days filthy graft :yes:
Quote from: FJools on February 11, 2015, 06:45:44 PM
If anything it seems a bit short in the gears now so I'll fit the 40T rear sprocket.
What did you have before the 40T rear? I am at 17/38.... A good fit for me....
Monkey
I forgot to answer this.........
To be honest I would need to look what it had. I messed around so much that it evades my long term memory.
I used a front Honda sprocket for the additional offset, which I know is the same size as the original. The Thunderace came with a 43T rear and I ordered a 40T, which took a long while to arrive. It the interim I put the FJ rear sprocket on in reverse, which I think was 41T.
On Sunday I got the chance to get out and give it a good run.
I had to go South to Bowral, a distance of around 130km from my place, to drop something off. By the time I got away time was pressing so I had to use motorways to get there but would use the old roads coming back.
brimming the tank I set off on the boring part, and it seemed everyman and his dog was out clogging up the main arterial routes till I got beyond Campbelltown. Cruising in this traffic on a two lane freeway with the Australian propensity to hog the outside lane at less than the speed limit (tyhanks to my GPS Speedo LOL) was frustrating. So the chance to open the taps and stick to 120kmh was welcome break.
The last bit of the trip through Mittagong gave me a few bends to work on. However, arriving at my destination and viewing the ominous black clouds, a check of the weather forecast showed big storms coming in so I made a hasty about turn.
Returning along the old South rd throughBargo, Tahmoor, Picton and Camden showed that the handling was much better than stock, if a bit hard on the front end. The road surfaces were pretty tragic and I had to pick my lines carefully.
Fortunately I was outrunning the looming storm clouds. Exiting Camden vally way, past the old Oran Park race track access (now a housing estate ) along cowpasture road onto the M7 for a spell, then on the M4 towards Sydney. a quick stop at Maccas for a thirst quenching coke, then off at the Cumberland highway, through Eastwood and back home.
The fuel light came on after about 264km on the M4, but didn't hit reserve so I switched it over anyhow. I was planning to refuel at the BP garage at Fiveways, near home, but it was about then that the storm caught and was it blowing.....so discretion ensured I legged it the few km's home without getting a soaking.
All in all a good positive ride, certainly the gearing needs sorting and probably some softening of the front end slightly.
Whether this can be done with the preload and compression damping remains to be tested.
Observations:
About 130km is the limit for me comfort wise these days. The tingling in my hands when I remove the gloves is quite alarming, and I put down to the vibration which is not that obvious. The usual aches and pains in bum and knees may mean I need a better seat.
Also a higher screen would probably be a good idea, the one fitted is not original.
My new Shark Evoline 3 is probably bedding in, but is quite noisy and because the flip up designs tend to be tighter around the temple, start to induce slight headaches after this distance.
I also noticed that the bumps had settled the steering head bearings and the top nut will need a tweak to tighten it all up.
Softening up the compression damping 3 clicks and balancing the preload (the left fork was 1 ring harder :shok:) seems to have helped.
But I over tightened the steering bearings so I need to address that before I can be absolutely sure.
I also noticed that the issue with the drive chain is actually the rear tyre, which is actually being chewed up by the drive chain. The while checking the size of the rear sprocket I noticed that I installed the sprocket the wrong way round so turning this over should fix the chain rubbing but then I'll need to check the alignment again.
gearing is 17/41 so while the wheel is out I am going to fit the Michellin pilots. I have ordered a pilot 4 170 rear & I already have a new Pilot 3 120 Front on the shelf. Then fit the 40 rear sprocket.
The instrument console also has to come out to tighten the GPS speedo bezel up. I noticed it has turned slightly and I'm a bit concerned that it may be reading 10kmh low......... :negative:
I have just started riding the bike regularly again as the weather and opportunity has improved.
The battery was showing its age so I replaced the old MotoBatt with a Lithium type. A valve check and shim and carb ballance with new Iridium plugs and she starts very easily now although I'm a bit concerned the starter clutch (if there is one) is starting to slip....something to look at later.
The left hand fork seal was showing signs of leaking so I pulled this out. It was a double lip type and there were no signs of anything that had snagged it so I put in the other way around to check and its been good since. Maybe my earlier assembly error.
I also noticed that the fork spring had begun to disappear into the spacer. The washer that should have prevented this looked to be the wrong type so I found a better one and reassembled the fork.
The clipons were fitted under the top clamp so that I could get a bit more length on the R6 forks. Although providing some fitting issues the front end seems a lot better and riding over the past week shows that the fork seal leak is cured.
I took the OEM forks apart to clean and to my surprise i found a Racetech gold valve and upgraded spring in there.........................
So, now I've decided to refit these with the OEM triples and wheel but keep the blue spots. The main reason for this is I really need this R6 set up for my CMR frame I got for the TZ750, the original reason I bought them before I got the FJ.
Quote from: FJools on August 22, 2015, 04:26:28 PM
I'm a bit concerned the starter clutch (if there is one) is starting to slip....something to look at later.
The left hand fork seal was showing signs of leaking so I pulled this out. It was a double lip type and there were no signs of anything that had snagged it so I put in the other way around to check and its been good since. Maybe my earlier assembly error.
What weight if oil are you using and how cold was it? When I was at the last WCR in Coleville I had issues starting. The starter would engage then let go and free spin. It took several tries to get started in the morning, I was concerned I would drain the battery. The rest of the day, no issues starting. I spoke with Randy about it at dinner the second night. He explained that my using 20-50 oil and the colder temps will cause issues with the starter clutch engaging. Back here sunny (warmer) SoCal I don't have any issues. So when this oil is shot I will replace with 10-40.
The fork seal has an open end and a closed end, the open end faces the oil.
I'm using the recommended Yamalube (10-40?) and although it is winter here its still well above freezing. It also does it when warm too but not as often when its hot so it could be oil viscosity I guess.
Just wondered if there were any known issues with starter clutches and if they are easily remedied.
Quote from: FJools on August 23, 2015, 04:32:00 PM
I'm using the recommended Yamalube (10-40?) and although it is winter here its still well above freezing. It also does it when warm too but not as often when its hot so it could be oil viscosity I guess.
Just wondered if there were any known issues with starter clutches and if they are easily remedied.
My '86 would have this issue even in warm temps but not enough to cause me any concern. I would stab the start button again and off I go. But I cannot recall it ever happening when the engine was warm/hot. Pay attention to hot starts, if it happens then I would give Randy a call and inquire.
Earlier in this thread you will have read about the 2000 model R6 front end conversion.
On the whole I have been quite happy with the result, but using the R6 triple clamps with the FJ steering stem required a top clamp bush for things to fit properly.
The initial alloy version soon compressed and started to wear oval and was replaced with a brass one.
The other thing that bugged me was finding some bars that fit properly without everything being a compromise.
In the end I have picked up another set of used FJ triples and bars from Japan.
So this weekend I reinstated the original front end, including front wheel but retaining the blue spot callipers, while I have the old FJ triples machined out for the 43mm R6 forks.
I took the opportunity to service the FJ forks which had 0.95kg springs and emulators. After which with the bikes front jacked up till the back wheel touched the ground, I found that I had to pull the forks right through the top clamps in order to get the front wheel in. And once everything is in and tightened up I decided that to get some wheel clearance on the stand I needed 30mm of fork leg protruding above the bars. TBH I can't remember if it was like this originally. There appears to very little static sag on the front end so I'm wondering if those springs are too heavy or the spacers are too long. The Preload adjuster is on the minimum setting.
A test ride proved it all to work ok but the forks are for me on the stiff side. I used 20w oil 450cc each leg. The FJ wheel has EBC pro lite discs and I was not confident with their retardation properties compared to OEM R6 discs.
I also replaced the instruments with another picked up from Japan, which has some subtle differences - orange indicator repeaters and what looks like wiring for a speed limiter,
but missing the reed switch for the self cancelling indicators that my bike shouldn't have anyway.........But it proved the Tacho on the old set was broken, and the speedo on this set is steady.
It will be nice to evaluate these two set ups back to back and with the forks dropped through as they are steers as quickly as the R6 set, and in reality is probably the same height. Not sure what the offset differences are but I will check all of this. The riding position is good too with the OEM bars set higher than the ones fitted to the R6.
I weigh in 220 up to 240 at times and have .95 Race Tech springs with Race Tech style emulators and my front static sag from memory is about 30mm. I can check it later today if you want to know for sure. The spring rate is good for me and the emulators / oil combo is set so under the hardest riding and breaking that I do (not a hard rider) that I have about 30mm before bottoming out. I put plastic wire ties on each fork tube above the seals so I can somewhat monitor my fork travel after a ride as a marking gage. I set the preload up as per Race Tech's instructions. Don't know if any of this helps but that's my experience with .95 springs.
George
I'm also about the same weight as George, have .95 kg/mm springs, R-T emulators, and 15wt oil @ 150mm.
My forks are ~10mm higher in the triples than OEM.
I've been very happy with the front end on my bike and others who have ridden it have also been pleased.
I wonder if when you installed the R6 forks you also put on longer dog bone links to get the attitude back to normal. If so, that would account for you needing to raise the forks to get the front wheel in place.
If you're lighter than us, that spring is probably too stiff for you.
Thanks for the replies - I was wondering about the dog bones too, but from memory (and looking up the front of this thread) it seems it was more to do with getting the Thunderace rear to sit properly. But I'll recheck that to see what the dims should be - another 10mm may cure that but as the plan is to refit the R6 forks I think I can live with it for now.
My weight is very similar (98kg) and did notice some sag when I heaved it onto the stand after the ride to work today so maybe I missed something. The other thing I want to check is the air gap so thanks for that dimension Arnie. For the race bikes we usually work between 120mm and 140mm.
I also noticed what felt like a mismatch with the front and rear tyres, or could have been the cold damp roads at 6:00am - something odd. The OEM front is a Pirelli dragon on the 3.0" rim. I have a pair of Michelling pilots that i have been waiting to fit and maybe its time for that fitment.
Latest Update:
I have decided to stick with the OEM forks after discovering they have had some racetech updates & emulators on them.
I settled on dropping them 25mm through the yokes which seems to work ok. The R6 arrangement with FJ triples just didn't work out. The fork spacing on the FJ is about 7mm wider than the R6. So either the R6 or FJ wheels would require a lot of work/axle/spacer & bearing changes.
I also ordered a mid range Wilbers shock, preload & rebound adjustment, from Germany to replace the original. This won't arrive before the Nowra Manshed day, which would have been a good work out for it.
Lastly, the ancient tyres were changed for a pair of Michellin Pilot Road 4's which have transformed the bike immensely. a 120/70 section front and a 170/70 x 17" rear. I can't believe the difference in handling and turning this change has made. (new tyres often have that effect)
The only other thing I have to look at is the RH footrest position as it doesn't feel right. Maybe its had a tumble on this side at some stage and the mtg plate is out of alignment.
Oh, I also found some dual pod filters from RPM in a box the other day that I had completely forgotten about............... :dash1: with some replacement domes head bolts.
Is it advisable to replace these head bolts one at a time, torqueing each one or is it likely to promote head gasket sealing problems ?
Yes indeed, I love my PR-4's. There are better handling tires available but none have the wet road capabilities or the mileage of the PR-4's. They're impressive tires.
What's wrong with the current head nuts? Do not replace them, just to replace them. Why tempt fate?
It's ok to do just one head nut at a time. Torque to 25ft/lbs
[edit] we are talking about the acorn head nuts, correct? Not the valve cover grommet bolts...
Hi Pat
missed this reply,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yes the acorn nuts were pretty scabby and I got a shiny new set from RPM but I know what you mean and I though a single nut swap and torque I might get away with. Since I have to replace the valve stem seals now it may be simpler to just pull the head off unless I make up the gear to do the change without lifting the head. Still undecided.
On another matter Christmas came early this week...............
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/Jools58/FJ1200/PC090015_zpseqhi2oni.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/FJ1200/PC090015_zpseqhi2oni.jpg.html)
After returning from a full weekend recertification course for work (F*ck this modern beurocracy bullsh*t)
I got home early enough yesterday to consider fitting the Wilbers shock.
The old shock came off easy enough nut the Wilbers wouldn't go in the swing arm unless I turned it 180 degrees so it seems the mounts are slightly offset............
Any how then i realised the problem, the mod for fitting the Thunderace swing arm with any shock other than standard, requires the brace plates around the shock tunnel to be relieved to allow clearance.
So out came the swing arm and I noticed that the LH exhaust had been rubbing the side of it. The bracket must have got bent inwards when some goon knocked the bike over a few months ago. This is going to need some serious tidying up.
Using an air hacksaw I carved out a clearance that I marked around the shock spring in the top and bottom plates and cleaned up the cuts. Unfortunately the only way to check the clearance is by refitting it all, and you guessed I need to nibble some more out as it just catches the spring at the bottom plate.
Hot, sweaty and greasy i called it a day and went for a long soak in the bath............ :biggrin:
1) Put some washers between the aluminum side plates and the frame. It will give you a bit more room.
2) to get more clearance I take the steel bushings out of the rubber exhaust dampers. I use a steel collar inside the rubber bushings where the bolt passes through....speaking of bolts...
3) Use stainless button head (low profile, more clearance) bolts for your exhaust. Put the button heads facing the inside, towards the swing arm, use stainless acorn head nuts on the outside, with blue thread locker.
4) Check the passenger foot peg mount nuts for contact with the top of the swing arm. I put the bolts on with red thread locker, torqued them down, let them dry then took the side plates off and shaved down the nuts with my belt sander. No more nicking the top edge of the swingarm with the edges of the nuts.
Hope this helps.
Pat
Cheers Pat,
I may have another look later this week if I get chance. Otherwise it will be the weekend again.
And with the festive season coming up there are always other things that get in the way...........
No worries, enjoy the holidays.
Also, I forgot to ask, did you review Mark Rittner's Thunder Ace installation specs. he posted on Barry Edwards FJ Mod site?
The reason I asked is, that along with trimming the gusset plates (which you discovered) you have to put a "fly cut" in the swingarm to clear the spring on the shock.
I did at the time of the mods, and I was intending to dig out the print I made of his work as I seem to recall that it was more involved.
You have just confirmed my suspicions.............. :dash1: