Whats the opinions on 17/43 sprockets?
Too high to use it for anything except drag racing?
Cash
Quote from: Cash Dereszynski on December 29, 2014, 11:22:58 PM
Whats the opinions on 17/43 sprockets?
Too high to use it for anything except drag racing?
Cash
Lets try this from a different angle...
What are you looking for? What do you have?
I like the taller gearing, less punch when I twist the throttle but more high end speed. I run 18/38...
:unknown:
Search the files. There are as many opinons on gearing as there is on what oil to use. Stock gearing on the 84 FJ is 17/42. I ran mine with that gearing in town and highway and it was fine. Since most of my riding is highway speeds I went to a 18/42 to bring down the rpm's. It depends on what kind of riding you do most. Dave
This might be help...
http://www.gearingcommander.com/ (http://www.gearingcommander.com/)
Quote from: Cash Dereszynski on December 29, 2014, 11:22:58 PM
Whats the opinions on 17/43 sprockets?
Too high to use it for anything except drag racing?
Cash
You need to ride it for a while to get a feel for what is right for you. Your combo as stated will be pretty low and you will like it around town but on the freeway you might want a higher ratio. It's all a personal as to what you want. I started at stock went to 18/38 and the dropped the front to 17. I am happy with 17/38.
I might be off here a little but one tooth on the front is equal to about 3 teeth on the rear. I am sure someone has the exact ratio.
I will end it where I started, ride the thing before you make any decisions. :good2:
George
Quote from: Cash Dereszynski on December 29, 2014, 11:22:58 PM
Whats the opinions on 17/43 sprockets?
Too high to use it for anything except drag racing?
Cash
My opinion is sounds like fun . You are gonna give up some top end but have a lot more bottom end for climbing hills and steep grades.
You may experience minor front wheel lift on hard acceleration. If you are riding 2up with luggage this is the perfect combo to keep the fj snappy.
you will still have plenty of power for the freeway.
I currently run the 17/41 on my 86 and get 35 mpg if on the mains for extended periods, all freeway is 45mpg with an average of 38-40mpg for spirited riding.
120/70/17" on the front with a 180/55/17" on the rear. When on level ground I see 5k rpm for 80mph.
I did play around with gearing using a 17/45 =wheelie monster , tire smoker , got annoying with it lifting the front wheel accelerating out of a corner.
17/43= snappy and fun but found myself in the wrong gear (3rd )trying to exit corners (2nd would be redline for me).
17/41=My personal favorite , well balanced and in the right gear for the corners. good for 2up and bags.
18/38=bogged the whole bike down and lowered my fun factor. engine pinged ,did not like it.
18/41=I will use this setup for long distance runs between states , great mileage and still usable power.
I must state these are my opinions and YMMV (your mileage may vary).
Please use steel gears , the fj eats aluminum ones.
Q1: Be it either 18/41 or 17/41, is a chain length of 110 links good for each set of gearing?
Q2: I thought that I dug up an old post, and someone fitted a 18/42 set, and they could barely use a 110 link chain. I think they said that they had to take a rat-tail file (slightly) to the fronts of the axle slots on the chain adjusters to get that chain length to fit. Can anyone confirm?
Thanks.
I'm running 18/43 on a 180/55 GSXR wheel and its growing on me. I like the oomph, and I'm getting 40mpg, no matter what.
edit: 110 link chain worked fine for me
Yes on the 110 link for that combo.
Pick a flavor. My fav is 18/40
The larger diameter 18 tooth counter shaft sprocket is easier on your chain.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 30, 2014, 06:17:07 PM
Pick a flavor. My fav is 18/40
The larger diameter 18 tooth counter shaft sprocket is easier on your chain.
I have been running 18/42 for the last 10,000 miles and going to install my 40t sprocket when I change the rear tire. I think that will do it for me at highway speeds of 75 to 80 to keep up with the cagers here in Texas at a reasonable rpm. Dave
Quote from: Cash Dereszynski on December 29, 2014, 11:22:58 PM
Whats the opinions on 17/43 sprockets?
Too high to use it for anything except drag racing?
Cash
Not at all - probably great in-town gearing or weekend fun gearing. Want to do a road trip - then just swap in an 18 c/s sprocket.
Now 16/43 starts to become heavily drag oriented, and maybe too much gear depending on your chassis setup...
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 30, 2014, 06:17:07 PM
Pick a flavor. My fav is 18/40
The larger diameter 18 tooth counter shaft sprocket is easier on your chain.
My last 2 sprocket sets have been 18/41 having previously run standard gearing. You do lose a little punch but it's a pretty good compromise.
Noel
Quote from: Mark Olson on December 30, 2014, 05:20:44 PM
.....When on level ground I see 5k rpm for 80mph.
....and on hills? :biggrin:
Noel
I ran 17/42 teeth with a 160x17 tyre and found it too short geared for comfortable riding, the engine felt far too busy and I had two vibration periods at inconvenient cruising speeds. Went up to 18/42 teeth, back to almost like stock.
18/40 teeth with a 180x17 tyre, very similar.
18/40 teeth with a stock 150/80 x16 tyre is a nice cruising combination that still goes up hills.
The problem with short geared final drives is that the overlap of the gears gets reduced. Fine if you like stirring gears but for me the FJ works best with tall gears. It is a big CC engine so you can get a lot of fuel into it to compensate for any ill judged speed vs revs situation and it will still cope.
All of the above sprocket combination where done with the same chain which has a few thousand miles on it.
Quote from: ribbert on January 01, 2015, 08:24:40 AM
Quote from: Mark Olson on December 30, 2014, 05:20:44 PM
.....When on level ground I see 5k rpm for 80mph.
....and on hills? :biggrin:
Noel
Don't know , too busy having fun . :gamer:
Opinion? You want Opinions ? OK, here's mine :-)
Assuming you are still running the OEM 150/80x16 rear wheel, a 17/43 isn't necessary, but it should be fun around town. You'll give up some fuel economy and maybe have a few un-intended wheelies, but it will do no harm (other than maybe a ticket or two for those wheelies)
On a longish trip, the bike will seem busy all the time.
Your choice.
Or, get a proper "hooligan" bike :yahoo:
Thnx to all.
Regards
Cash
I´d like to add one thing that has not been addressed in this thread
In order to extend the life time of the chain it is preferred to use one sprocket with an even number of teeth against an odd number sprocket,
-just to throw in one more factor for you to think about :biggrin:
Quote from: IceFJ on January 15, 2015, 06:33:22 AM
I´d like to add one thing that has not been addressed in this thread
In order to extend the life time of the chain it is preferred to use one sprocket with an even number of teeth against an odd number sprocket,
-just to throw in one more factor for you to think about :biggrin:
That's the theory and why I run 18/41. I have always run odd sprockets for this reason but whether it actually makes a real world difference, cant say.
Noel
Quote from: IceFJ on January 15, 2015, 06:33:22 AM
I´d like to add one thing that has not been addressed in this thread
In order to extend the life time of the chain it is preferred to use one sprocket with an even number of teeth against an odd number sprocket,
-just to throw in one more factor for you to think about :biggrin:
I'm sorry, but I can't seem to grasp this. From your comment, a 19 tooth sprocket would wear a chain out faster than an 18 tooth sprocket. I don't get how just an odd number plays into this.
I can reason how a 17 tooth sprocket would wear faster than an 18 tooth sprocket, due to its smaller pitch diameter. Hence, more rotations over a given time, with the chain riding along with it. But I just don't know how a sprocket that has an odd number of teeth, and its tooth count being greater than the even count below it, would wear itself and the chain out faster.
I guess I require some enlightenment on the above.
Thanks.
FJ gearing article. More food for thought...
http://www.fjcatalogue.com/f/FJ_gearing_sheet.pdf (http://www.fjcatalogue.com/f/FJ_gearing_sheet.pdf)
Quote from: IceFJ on January 15, 2015, 06:33:22 AM
I´d like to add one thing that has not been addressed in this thread
In order to extend the life time of the chain it is preferred to use one sprocket with an even number of teeth against an odd number sprocket,
-just to throw in one more factor for you to think about :biggrin:
The odd/even number of teeth has no affect on life of the chain. The two sprockets are only connected via the chain, otherwise independent of each other. However, bending a chain over smaller diameter sprockets can reduce the life, the chain links have to rotate more to turn around the smaller sprocket. But I don't think the difference of a 17T vs. an 18T will be worth the argument. Wives tales BS. Nothing personal, my background is mechanical engineering. :bomb:
The even/odd sprockets is a wear pattern thing. The old bevel drive cams used even/odd gear sets to make sure the gears always meshed differently. If it was an even/even gear set, the gear teeth would always mesh in the same pattern. The even/odd ratio changes the gear teeth meshing on every rotation. The theory was to prevent a potential fatigue failure from a constant wear pattern.
Same with even/even sprockets. The sprockets will have a fixed engagement pattern on the chain. Even/odd sprockets would have a random meshing pattern on the chain. Whether it really makes a difference is anyone's guess.
Edit: This technique is also employed on ring and pinion gear sets. A quick check of common differential ring and pinion ratios shows them to be either even/odd or odd/odd, no even/even applications.
Doesn't that all depend on whether you have an odd or even number of links in the chain? What if there's a half-link? :unknown:
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on January 15, 2015, 12:07:57 PM
Edit: This technique is also employed on ring and pinion gear sets. A quick check of common differential ring and pinion ratios shows them to be either even/odd or odd/odd, no even/even applications.
I can see the ring and pinion as the teeth have direct contact with each other. I just don't see how two sprockets connected with a chain of 100+ links can have that much repeat contact with the same tooth and link. But since I really don't care or need to prove a point and I really don't want to figure out the math on this, I will leave at that. Besides, I am likely to have way more fun starting another oil or tire thread.... :bye2:
So anyways which oil is better and why?.. just kidding
Quote from: FJmonkey on January 15, 2015, 01:03:53 PM
But since I really don't care or need to prove a point and I really don't want to figure out the math on this, I will leave at that.
Not defending the practice, just attempting to show where the "logic" comes from.
For the record, I'm running an 18/40 sprocket combo.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on January 15, 2015, 02:59:44 PM
For the record, I'm running an 18/40 sprocket combo.
Risk-taker.
18/38 on my FJ
I got to thinking (oh no) about this in more detail and worked up a spreadsheet. I was wondering what the sprocket pattern on a chain would look like. I worked the math for a countershaft sprocket but the same logic would apply to a rear sprocket also.
Fact: A chain has the same number of links, gaps, and rollers. (I drew a small diagram but correct me if I'm wrong on this)
I designated a chain roller as #1 and start with it meshing tooth #1 on a countershaft sprocket. I then rotate the sprocket to see how many revolutions it takes for chain roller #1 and sprocket tooth #1 to mesh back up again.
The results were (kind of) interesting.
An 18T CCS on a 110 link/roller chain repeats every 55 CCS revolutions (1/2 the number of chain links)
A 17T CCS on a 110 link chain repeats every 110 revolutions (same as # of links!)
An 18T CCS on a 109 link chain repeats every 109 revolutions (same as # of links!)
A 17T CCS on a 109 link chain repeats every 109 revolutions (same as # of links!)
So it appears that even or odd doesn't matter, they both have a repeating pattern on the chain.
Although the even tooth sprocket and even link chain combo repeat more often.
The even/odd and odd/odd combos are the same.
Too much time on your hands ... :morning1:
Thanks Ed! :-)
Oh yeah, it's pretty much the same story for the rear sprocket.
Even/odd and odd/odd tooth count and chain link combos repeat at the # of revolution equal to the number of chain links.
The even/even combo repeats at 1/2 the number of links; however, sprocket teeth that are multiples of 10 are the worst repeating at only 11 rotations of the sprocket.
This means the 40 tooth sprocket and 110 link chain is one of the worst combinations your could choose as far as avoiding a frequent sprocket/chain meshing pattern. Which proves that this is all BS since the 40 tooth/110 link combination is out there in spades and not throwing chains all over the place. :-)
But, the math was kind of fun. Nothing else to see here, keep moving........
Just to add more trivia to an already totally trivial thread.......
This is a "half-link" for a non-Oring 530 chain. It is probably 40+ yrs old.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/99_16_02_14_7_36_08.jpeg)
I have not seen one for a current O or X ring chain in any shop or catalog.
Without this type of device you can only have a chain with an even number of links.
Therefore, it might be possible that a wear pattern could develop in an even/even or odd/odd sprocket set eventually. I'd guess that it would be less than significant.
Arnie
Arnie,
Are you saying that I can't cut a single link out of my chain and have 109 links?
What you show above looks like it's a whole link. But I'm confused about the offset on the side plates. How does it install?
I had a Hodaka that came with a rear sprocket overlay to make the rear sprocket bigger. The tool kit included a small section of chain (I seem to recall 5 links but not sure) along with an extra master link (clip of course) to lengthen the chain for the overlay.
Hooli, question: on the load transfer from the output shaft to the c/s sprocket to the chain...
Does the 18 tooth sprocket add a tooth to the distribute to load on the chain vs the 17 tooth?
I've always assumed (visualizing the chain wrap) 1/2 of the 18 teeth (9) would pick up the load vs only 8 teeth on a 17 tooth sprocket. The extra tooth transferring the engine load to the chain is a good thing.....distributes the load over a larger area.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on January 15, 2015, 08:01:57 PM
Arnie,
Are you saying that I can't cut a single link out of my chain and have 109 links?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You would have no way to join it into a loop
What you show above looks like it's a whole link. But I'm confused about the offset on the side plates. How does it install?
It's a "half-link". You install it with a normal "master" on one end and a single pin that has a washer and cotter pin on the other. The offset (small end with roller) fits inside the outer link plates
I had a Hodaka that came with a rear sprocket overlay to make the rear sprocket bigger. The tool kit included a small section of chain (I seem to recall 5 links but not sure) along with an extra master link (clip of course) to lengthen the chain for the overlay.
Your chain extension had rollers at both ends so the master link would work.
Quote from: IceFJ on January 15, 2015, 06:33:22 AM
I´d like to add one thing that has not been addressed in this thread
In order to extend the life time of the chain it is preferred to use one sprocket with an even number of teeth against an odd number sprocket,
-just to throw in one more factor for you to think about :biggrin:
I see that I opened a can of worms here, an other "oil" thread, LOL!!
I did not mean to though.... :rofl:
For those of you who are still interested in the math here is a link that has been posted on some previous gearing threads www.gearingcommander.com (http://www.gearingcommander.com)
:bomb:
Quote from: IceFJ on January 16, 2015, 10:41:08 AM
For those of you who are still interested in the math here is a link that has been posted on some previous gearing threads www.gearingcommander.com (http://www.gearingcommander.com)
:bomb:
Yep. Including this one. Fourth post down on first page. :rofl2: