Hello one and all.
So I put my rare wheel back on today after getting a new tire on it and the following just popped in to my head so I thought I would ask you all.
Is the vibration experienced through the handle bars solely found with the 1200 models?. Is it something to be expected?
I have not ridden for over a month because of weather but when i was riding I got to say after about 40 minutes or so I was beginning to feel my hands getting numb.
I have put lead shot in the handle bars which helped a little but I think even after doing that an hour of riding would not be enjoyable.
I looked in to the "vibernators" but not sold on them yet. What are your remedies to reduce the vibration?.
Tom
First, I must add that you are in Illinois, your hands getting numb from riding now is likely the cold temperature... Many things can cause added vibration on an '86... First sync the carbs, then make sure your carbs are synced.... Then get back to us... Or you could sell it and get a '91/'92 with rubber mounted engines...
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 14, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
First, I must add that you are in Illinois, your hands getting numb from riding now is likely the cold temperature... Many things can cause added vibration on an '86... First sync the carbs, then make sure your carbs are synced.... Then get back to us... Or you could sell it and get a '91/'92 with rubber mounted engines...
Ah yes good old Illinois winter weather but I have ridden the bike all summer with the same issue. Its a 92. The carbs are synched One of the first things I did when I got the bike and do once a month. Maybe the rubber mounts have passed their useful life?
I hear what fjmonkey is saying. On my 1990 syncing the carbs makes a big difference. There is more to syncing the carbs than just hooking up the tool and do a quick sync.. That last 10% makes a difference. Takes a bit of time and adjusting for the best compromise. Also I like the foam grips and wear gloves with some padding on the palm. Another thought relates to how you grip the bars. I try to relax on the grips and adjust the levers so my wrist isn't cocked to much. Also you can pull, re-lube the engine mounts and re-torque the bolts. Check for cracks in the frame while you are at it at around all the welded joints. I have seen a few cracked.
All that with the inherent design of the 4 cylinder it will still vibrate some. I can't say anything about the "vibernators" other than the theory looks good.
George
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Ah yes good old Illinois winter weather but I have ridden the bike all summer with the same issue. Its a 92. The carbs are synched One of the first things I did when I got the bike and do once a month. Maybe the rubber mounts have passed their useful life?
Then I think you need to find an '86 owner to test ride... The vibes are more pronounced... I kind of like it... lets me fall a sleep on longer rides...
Yeah.I am comparing it to a 85 Goldwing so maybe thats part of it. But of all the bikes I have had over 29 years I never felt my hands getting numb. Maybe its age creeping in :unknown:javascript:void(0);
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:27:27 PM
Yeah.I am comparing it to a 85 Goldwing so maybe thats part of it. But of all the bikes I have had over 29 years I never felt my hands getting numb. Maybe its age creeping in :unknown:javascript:void(0);
85 Goldwing??? :wacko1:
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 14, 2014, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:27:27 PM
Yeah.I am comparing it to a 85 Goldwing so maybe thats part of it. But of all the bikes I have had over 29 years I never felt my hands getting numb. Maybe its age creeping in :unknown:javascript:void(0);
85 Goldwing??? :wacko1:
Yup . Is that blasphemy. I could compare it to my 2001 Honda Cr250. Now that is a vibration monster.
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Its a 92. Maybe the rubber mounts have passed their useful life?
Here is a thread on removing the rubber motor mounts to inspect and grease them. A 92' should have nearly no vibration in the handle bars. After you inspect, replace possible bad bushings and grease the mounts and you still have a bit of a buzz in the bars, the RPM vibranators will dampen them away.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on December 14, 2014, 10:53:32 PM
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Its a 92. Maybe the rubber mounts have passed their useful life?
Here is a thread on removing the rubber motor mounts to inspect and grease them. A 92' should have nearly no vibration in the handle bars. After you inspect, replace possible bad bushings and grease the mounts and you still have a bit of a buzz in the bars, the RPM vibranators will dampen them away.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Fred
Thanks Fred. I will check them out during the week. Are new rubber mounts still available?
Here is a link to a parts break down for the '92 frame. From what I can see, the mounts may be obsolete. That is not to say that they are completely unavailable.
If you find that you need the parts, contact Randy at RPM and if there are any hidden away in a small Podunk town Yamaha shop, he will find them.
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1992/FJ1200D/FRAME/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1992/FJ1200D/FRAME/parts.html)
Fred
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:59:40 PM
Quote from: aviationfred on December 14, 2014, 10:53:32 PM
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Its a 92. Maybe the rubber mounts have passed their useful life?
Here is a thread on removing the rubber motor mounts to inspect and grease them. A 92' should have nearly no vibration in the handle bars. After you inspect, replace possible bad bushings and grease the mounts and you still have a bit of a buzz in the bars, the RPM vibranators will dampen them away.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Fred
Thanks Fred. I will check them out during the week. Are new rubber mounts still available?
Its not usually the rubber that is the problem..... the bushings that ride in the rubber seize to the shaft and then the mounts are essentially solid.
My personal feeling is that the Vibranators do make some improvement in the high frequency vibes.
Harvy
When I synched my carbs and greased the motor mounts, it was way smoother. When it hit 3000 rpms it became turbine smooth.
with my 90 model, i experienced exactly the same, the grip puppies really helped and made it manageable . Ithink the larger diameter of the grip helps aswell. when i synced the carbs it made a noted improvement again. I borrowed Harvy's vibranators from him for a week or so and i couldn't notice any difference BUT that was just me. Many folks claim success with them.
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:59:40 PM
Quote from: aviationfred on December 14, 2014, 10:53:32 PM
Quote from: wildfire on December 14, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
Its a 92. Maybe the rubber mounts have passed their useful life?
Here is a thread on removing the rubber motor mounts to inspect and grease them. A 92' should have nearly no vibration in the handle bars. After you inspect, replace possible bad bushings and grease the mounts and you still have a bit of a buzz in the bars, the RPM vibranators will dampen them away.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Fred
Thanks Fred. I will check them out during the week. Are new rubber mounts still available?
I just had Randy do mine, and I have NO vibration where I used to experience the numb hands just like you describe. The mounts made all the difference in the world. Nothing was replaced, just removed, cleaned, greased, and reinstalled. 65k miles, and she purrs like a kitten.
Forget about grips, sync's, vibranators, worn out mounts etc. there is a 99.9999% chance all your woes are coming from seized engines mounts.
Do as some have suggested, remove, clean up and lubricate them and you won't believe the difference, it's night and day.
Below 3500 rpm you can feel the motor working but I wouldn't call it vibration and above, turbine smooth. With seized mounts the vibes are terrible.
This is a well trodden path and those that have done it usually cannot believe the difference.
Noel
The bush that's sticking out and the collar it slides into is what needs to be cleaned and greased, but beware they can be hard to get out.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a586/the4ts/DSC_0137_zps4cd48743.jpg)
Much better explanation than mine Tony........the pic brings it to life - so to speak.
Harvy
Quote from: Bones on December 15, 2014, 01:35:03 AM
The bush that's sticking out and the collar it slides into is what needs to be cleaned and greased, but beware they can be hard to get out.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a586/the4ts/DSC_0137_zps4cd48743.jpg)
And pay close attention to which bolt goes where etc. Both times I've greased them I seemed to get it back together wrong the first time.
Yep, that's the same one Randy did for me. My rubber mounts were left alone.
Quote from: Bones on December 15, 2014, 01:35:03 AM
The bush that's sticking out and the collar it slides into is what needs to be cleaned and greased, but beware they can be hard to get out.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a586/the4ts/DSC_0137_zps4cd48743.jpg)
Great pic. Will help a lot. I might be able to try it tomorrow. Would moly grease be OK to use?
It may be age :empathy3:
Go ahead and lube up the mounts and sync your carbs again . If that doesn't fix it then you may have arthritis kicking in .
I have had to use the soft grips and vibranators and just added the handlebar risers to deal with mine. Got them from RPM Randy.
The vibranators made a huge difference for me . Most will not notice on short rides under a hour , but if you are out for a day of griping and twisting you will notice the advantage of them.
Take a good look at your chain and sprockets. A worn chain and old sprockets will make even the late models vibrate like crazy.. Take some time to make sure you don't have a dead link or two in your chain and look at the sprockets for tooth wear. Make sure your front mounts are greased and move freely, synch your carbs and check your chain and sprockets. Your late model should be smooth as silk at highway speeds....
Eric M
Quote from: wildfire on December 15, 2014, 01:58:41 PM
Great pic. Will help a lot. I might be able to try it tomorrow. Would moly grease be OK to use?
One member even went as far as doing this and swears he can feel the difference after it's annual / 15,000km lube.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg)
Noel
Quote from: wildfire on December 15, 2014, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: Bones on December 15, 2014, 01:35:03 AM
The bush that's sticking out and the collar it slides into is what needs to be cleaned and greased, but beware they can be hard to get out.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a586/the4ts/DSC_0137_zps4cd48743.jpg)
Great pic. Will help a lot. I might be able to try it tomorrow. Would moly grease be OK to use?
You were not kidding. How do you even go about removing the bushing?. I have removed removed the bolts and the bushing is flush with the collar. Do I need to remove anything from the rear of the bushing?
You'll need to fashion a puller. A deep socket the same diameter of the outer sleeve with a couple washers and a threaded rod with nuts on each end should work.
Your question is the reason we built the Maintenance Files: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 19, 2014, 10:09:21 AM
Your question is the reason we built the Maintenance Files: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Thanks Pat.Got to love this site.
sublime, isn't it?
Ok so I dont want to risk causing damage. I just got back from Home Depot with the necessary parts to make a puller and I have run in to a problem.
In the link below there is a picture where a mirror is used to show the back side of the bushing and collar. However on my bike there is another bracket and a rubber mount . Obviously it needs to be removed/moved to enable using the puller. I have tried rotating but no luck.
I will try to get a pic to explain what I am talking about .
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3613.0)
Yes, you have to remove all 3 bolts and the plates on each side, then the 2 bushing grease caps, to get access to the bushing.
And that is what is called not pay attention to the pics. Thanks again.
No worries lad, report back on your findings...
Well I had one about 3/4ths out and the bolt snapped in half. :dash2: I wonder would adding some WD40 and leaving it overnight help loosen things up?
PB Blaster is a good penetrating oil (much better than WD40) ...not sure if it will help....did you use all tread or a actual bolt?
I saw a test where a homemade 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF beat all the other penetrating oils by a wide margin.
Never tried it, and I've heard it stinks really bad.
This isn't the actual link to the study, but a mention of it:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182271 (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182271)
Some other good hints in that thread too.
Quote from: Bminder on December 19, 2014, 02:43:09 PM
I saw a test where a homemade 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF beat all the other penetrating oils by a wide margin.
Never tried it, and I've heard it stinks really bad.
This isn't the actual link to the study, but a mention of it:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182271 (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182271)
Some other good hints in that thread too.
I think PB Blaster is pretty close to the same formula. It also stinks or has an odd oder. I have used both and PB Blaster is a lot more convenient. Plus you can buy it at Walmart or just about any Auto supply store. It is one of those items that I keep in stock on my shelf along with Brake Clean and and WD 40.
George
I've used the acetone/ATF mix. It works! And no trip to the store (for me, anyway).
All I have got at the moment is WD40. I will see how that works out overnight.
Quote from: wildfire on December 19, 2014, 04:43:07 PM
All I have got at the moment is WD40. I will see how that works out overnight.
If you have some light oil squirt some on if you can. 3 In 1, sewing machine, gun oil oil etc.. Along with the WD 40. :good2:
George
Success at last. I mixed up 50/50 of the wifes nail polish remover with ATF and after an hour or so I was able to remove the first one with a pliers . The second one came out simple with just a tap with a wooden dowel after using the mixture. There was some serious rust in there .
Feet up and having a beer right now so I will put them back in tomorrow.
Does anyone know the torque poundage for the 3 bolts?
Quote from: wildfire on December 19, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Success at last. I mixed up 50/50 of the wife's nail polish remover with ATF and after an hour or so I was able to remove the first one with a pliers . The second one came out simple with just a tap with a wooden dowel after using the mixture. There was some serious rust in there .
Feet up and having a beer right now so I will put them back in tomorrow.
Does anyone know the torque poundage for the 3 bolts?
Looking in the manual by description it reads as follows
Engine bracket (front) and frame M12X1.25 65ft lbs
Engine bracket (front) and engine M12 65 ft lbs
Engine bracket (rear upper) and frame M12 65 ft lbs
Engine bracket (rear upper) and engine M10X1.25 46 ft lbs
Down tube (front) and frame M10 35 ft lbs
Down tube (rear) and frame M10 22 ft lbs
Rear frame and frame M10 35 ft lbs
Good on using the wife's acetone and ATF :).. :good2:
George
Quote from: Bones on December 15, 2014, 01:35:03 AM
The bush that's sticking out and the collar it slides into is what needs to be cleaned and greased, but beware they can be hard to get out.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a586/the4ts/DSC_0137_zps4cd48743.jpg)
Its the 3 bolts that have been removed in the pic above that i need the torque lbs for. My wife actually encouraged me to use her acetone. I bet she was tired of hear strange Irish curse words coming from the garage because things were not going my way..
I revised my above post with what that manual is telling me. Looks like the M12's are 65 ft lbs.
George
Quote from: movenon on December 19, 2014, 10:10:42 PM
I revised my above post with what that manual is telling me. Looks like the M12's are 65 ft lbs.
George
Thanks George. So would you read that as the two bracket bolts are 65lbs and the third one is 35lbs.?
Or put another way from the pic above moving left to right what should torque be.
Yes if that one is a 10mm bolt. I am a bit handicapped because I own an old 1990 FJ but my manual covers the 91-93 bikes also.
George
Interesting that the manual would say that, considering the rear lower frame bolts are M8's ...not M10's
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 20, 2014, 12:11:37 AM
Interesting that the manual would say that, considering the rear lower frame bolts are M8's ...not M10's
What can I say. That's what Yamaha claims. :dash2: That's for the FJ 1200 B/BC.
Digging here in the manual the FJ 1200S/SC lists the "Downtube frame" as 8MX1.25 and a torque of 20 ft lbs.
So if they are 8mm then 20 ft lbs is the tq for them.
George
I PM'ed Wildfire.
Seems to be different torque settings depending on what manual is used. i came across a excerpt online from a Haynes manual under "Engine Mount bolts" that said the long flange bolts were 65lbs and the "upper damper" bolts were 40lbs.
Well job done. Bushings cleaned and greased and back in the bike. Now got to wait for the weather to improve to find out the improvement.
I dont think the bushings were ever removed before so to those considering the same task I would advise using some penetrating oil and leave to soak for a while. It makes such a huge difference in freeing up the bushings.
Tom
I think you're gonna be surprised. I was amazed.