Are the Uni replacement air filters worth considering ?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNI-AIR-FILTER-YAMAHA-FJ1100-FJ1200-1984-1993-/270974839672?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f175beb78 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNI-AIR-FILTER-YAMAHA-FJ1100-FJ1200-1984-1993-/270974839672?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f175beb78)
I would prefer retaining the std air box. The alternatives to these seem to be the paper type or the K&N gauze type.
I have some k&n filters you can have for postage both pods and one for the box. K&ns do not stop the fine stuff. I roached an ATV engine with a k&n. After engine took a shit. You could feel and see the grit in the intake. I always have spare filters no matter what brand. To swap out before they get too dirty and always take proper care of my filters. K&ns flow slightly better than the others... And flow dirt into your engine better too. If you want to keep your air box I would use the uni. But I like the uni pods. More room for other things like the air horns I have under my seats. Much easier servicing carbs. And lighter. And the intake sound is awesome. :yahoo:
But that's just me
Oh yah I'm sure the pod flow more air than the box. But I'm no expert. Randy or someone who does know. Could educate us if that's true. And if it does indeed mean more power. Not just sound great.
Quote from: FJools on December 10, 2014, 10:15:01 PM
I would prefer retaining the std air box.
Wait until you have to remove/replace your carbs for cleaning, you will rethink this preference.
Guaranteed.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 10, 2014, 11:32:00 PM
Quote from: FJools on December 10, 2014, 10:15:01 PM
I would prefer retaining the std air box.
Wait until you have to remove/replace your carbs for cleaning, you will rethink this preference.
Guaranteed.
+1 My bike had a K&N on it when I bought it. POS. I threw it in the trash. I now run pod's. The K&N might have be a contributing cause to my 120 PSI compression on all cylinders. That's yet to be determined. I like all the extra room I now have where the old box was not to mention how easy it is now to pull/service the carbs especially if I need to do it on the road. Ever notice things don't break in the shop ? :lol: You can always reinstall the old air box if for some reason you have the need.
But if I wanted to keep the stock air box I would probably use the filter you are looking at. Make sure the filter seals on the top side against the box. One of the pet peeves is you can loose that seal. :drinks:
George
Ya know, I always find it interesting that some folks here, and other places, trash (literally) K&N filters and deride their performance. Some cite independent studies, heresay, or their own observations. However, if they are such junk, I don't understand why a quality supply house such as RPM Racing offers them http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3Aknfilter (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3Aknfilter), OR that K&N continues to grow in size and applications over the decades.
One could surmise, that if a company sold such garbage it would have ceased to exist long ago. Either that, or the marketing and selling of its products is one of the biggest scams/swindles perpetrated on motoring enthusiasts and performance seekers for a long time running.
I have been running a K&N filter in a non-FJ application for years. I have always cleaned and re-oiled it using the company's products and procedures. When I remove it, wipe the inside of the air horn on the air mass flow (non-carb application) module with my finger tips and rub them together, I feel no grit at all.
Good luck with whatever filter you use. Regardless.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on December 11, 2014, 05:08:30 AM
Ya know, I always find it interesting that some folks here, and other places, trash (literally) K&N filters and deride their performance. Some cite independent studies, heresay, or their own observations. However, if they are such junk, I don't understand why a quality supply house such as RPM Racing offers them http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3Aknfilter (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3Aknfilter), OR that K&N continues to grow in size and applications over the decades.
One could surmise, that if a company sold such garbage it would have ceased to exist long ago. Either that, or the marketing and selling of its products is one of the biggest scams/swindles perpetrated on motoring enthusiasts and performance seekers for a long time running.
I have been running a K&N filter in a non-FJ application for years. I have always cleaned and re-oiled it using the company's products and procedures. When I remove it, wipe the inside of the air horn on the air mass flow (non-carb application) module with my finger tips and rub them together, I feel no grit at all.
Good luck with whatever filter you use. Regardless.
You're absolutely right.
Several members have posted here recently suggesting these filters were responsible for engine failure and excessive wear..
Other than ingesting a stone or something hard and large, even running
no air filter at all will only prematurely wear the rings and cylinders because of the abrasive action of fine particle airborne dirt, and then, only over more miles than most here put on their bikes.
Even a poor quality filter will do a reasonable job, a good filter a better job. The thing I don't like about foam filters, any brand (leaving aside the argument about whether they are any better than paper) is they are only any good if you are regular and thorough with the servicing of them.
I am no poster boy when it comes to these things and was quite shocked the last time I did my foam filters at how little dirt washed out of them. They should have been filthy and they weren't.
I mentioned yesterday about different forums each having their own set of entrenched beliefs that are at odds with the greater motorcycling community.
A couple of examples that spring to mind, I have seen an FJR forum that swears EBC HH pads with destroy you rotors in under 10K, everyone agrees.
Another one says you may as well throw yourself off a cliff as use Arashi rotors, they will kill you, they fly apart, they all "know" someone it happened to yet the Hyabusa track day forum endorses them and it would appear they all use them and love them, without incident. We alone probably have hundreds of members using them and swear by them.
Maybe the widely held belief here that K&N filters are the work of the Devil and one step up from pouring sand into the carbs is just one of those.
I am not offering any personal opinion here just pointing out that these entrenched and widely held views do not always have a basis of fact, despite the "factual" anecdotes.
I have always taken reviews here of filter A vs filter B with a pinch of salt because I don't agree with either of them.
From supercars such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche etc where performance regardless of cost is what it's all about to long haul trucks where engine life and fuel efficiency are paramount to earth moving equipment with super expensive engines operating in harsh environments, to aircraft where reliability is everything, paper filters are the only choice. There are only two cars produced with foam filters and they are some new fangled impregnated material that is supposed to last 200,000 km without servicing.
Having said that, I use Uni pods because my bike is a toy and mostly I love the induction sound, I like the extra room they leave and although carb maintenance is rare, the improved access is great.
IMO running these will take some life off the motor but it doesn't worry me. I look after it well in every other respect and on average will get more miles from my engine than most.
Foam filters are traditionally used in situations where excessive dirt is encountered such as dirt bikes or off road racing or simply as a means of keeping large debris out of your engine.
Noel
Usual Disclaimer
I use the UNI filter with stock box with no complaints. I tried the pods but didn't care for them. To each their own!
Either that, or the marketing and selling of its products is one of the biggest scams/swindles perpetrated on motoring enthusiasts and performance seekers for a long time running.
How many other filter companies do you see advertising on TV & in the magazines? K&N has done an excellent job at marketing for many many years. I was once a K&N filter user. Every vehicle I owned had a K&N. Until one day that I went to service one & I noticed an extremely fine layer of dust on the clean side of the filter housing. To fine to feel with your fingers, but if you take a white cloth & wipe the inside, you will probably be shocked at the brown or tan color on the cloth. Now I believe that some parts of the Country may not have the problem as badly, due to a more loamy soil, vs. sand & dust. I lived in the Arizona desert at the time. Anyway... I removed every K&N filter & checked each vehicle. I found the dust on the clean side of each one. Now before anyone jumps to the conclusion that I must not know how to service the K&N filter correctly, you're wrong.
Now I only use UNI oiled foam filters, or the AFE gauze & screen type of filter. The AFE is far superior to the K&N in filtering ability, as it is 7 layers thick. If you must use a gauze & screen filter, buy an AFE. You won't regret it. http://afepower.com (http://afepower.com)
Quote from: ribbert on December 11, 2014, 07:49:42 AM
You're absolutely right.
Noel
With that comment, and considering the source, I am honored.
But you know, the saying goes, "Every now and then, a squirrel finds a nut." :rofl:
Quote from: ~JM~ on December 11, 2014, 08:05:24 AM
..... one day that I went to service one & I noticed an extremely fine layer of dust on the clean side of the filter housing. To fine to feel with your fingers, but if you take a white cloth & wipe the inside, you will probably be shocked at the brown or tan color on the cloth.
Glad to see the filter did it's job.
Noel
As I said, I run Uni pods and have no intention of changing them but I find the absence of dirt when I wash them disturbing. Take an air hose to a paper filter at the same mileage and crap will fly out every where, and that's just the loose stuff.
I also hate the process of removing, washing, oiling and refitting them, but for the previously stated reasons I will stick with them.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 11, 2014, 08:28:05 AM
Quote from: ~JM~ on December 11, 2014, 08:05:24 AM
..... one day that I went to service one & I noticed an extremely fine layer of dust on the clean side of the filter housing. To fine to feel with your fingers, but if you take a white cloth & wipe the inside, you will probably be shocked at the brown or tan color on the cloth.
Glad to see the filter did it's job.
Noel
The filter failed! How do you consider dirt on the supposed CLEAN side as a sign that the filter is doing its job? There should be zero dirt or dust on the CLEAN side of the filter.
I replaced my paper OEM filter element with a UNI filter element as shown in that Ebay ad and used it for probably 20-30K kms. Then I replaced that with UNI dual-pods.
I can't tell you how each one actually performed, but the one you're asking about uses a single layer of foam that is only 5-6mm thick. The UNI dual-pods use a dual layer of foam that it about 10-12mm thick.
The benefits of the UNI dual-pods include that delicious intake honk :-) and the ease of access to both the filters and the carbs. I won't be going back to the airbox - ever.
If you still want the insert, send me a PM and I'll look in my shed to see if I still have it.
Arnie
Quote from: FJools on December 10, 2014, 10:15:01 PM
Are the Uni replacement air filters worth considering ?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNI-AIR-FILTER-YAMAHA-FJ1100-FJ1200-1984-1993-/270974839672?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f175beb78 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNI-AIR-FILTER-YAMAHA-FJ1100-FJ1200-1984-1993-/270974839672?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f175beb78)
I would prefer retaining the std air box. The alternatives to these seem to be the paper type or the K&N gauze type.
Yes I too used k&n filters on everything. Until I killed my ATV. Like I said I always have spare clean filters. And change them out. And yes it was probably the extreme dusty conditions. (Fresh k&n filter less than a full day's ride.) Have since ridden the same trails many times over with. Afe and foam filters.(6 different ATVs since the k&ns) and have never had the problem. The k&ns flow better. So everyone wants that little edge. (They still sell lots of open velocity stacks) And you may never run into fine enough grit that it will get through. But I will never take the chance again. (Built 2stroke motor grit everywhere. Took motor apart cleaned it out as good as I could. Put a bigger piston in it. Put it back together. And sold it right away)
I have never had a problem with AFE filters I am currently running in my diesel or my ATVs. Although I do still check the intake every time I change a filter. (Paranoid now) And I never had any problems with the foam filter (twin air, uni).
I just don't have the money to waste rebuilding my motors. If I should ever run into the right/wrong conditions. (Again) too take the chance running velocity stacks or k&ns slightly better (in my opinion from personal experience) for the slight edge they might give me.
I just want people to know. That It does/did happen to me. So they don't have to cut their vacation short. With their awesome new built motor. Sitting in camp for 2 days. While everyone else's out riding. So they can make an educated decision.
Quote from: ribbert on December 11, 2014, 07:49:42 AM
You're absolutely right.
Several members have posted here recently suggesting these filters were responsible for engine failure and excessive wear..
Other than ingesting a stone or something hard and large, even running no air filter at all will only prematurely wear the rings and cylinders because of the abrasive action of fine particle airborne dirt, and then, only over more miles than most here put on their bikes.
<snip>
Noel
Usual Disclaimer
Noel, I must disagree with your statement above. My favorite lubricant manufacturer Amsoil, put out the following info for dealer training:
Ninety percent of the contaminants within an engine come from the air, and the air filtration system serves to eliminate, as much as possible, these contaminants in order to reduce engine wear. Intuitively, this makes sense. Air is consumed at 14x the rate of fuel, so it has to be the largest source of contaminants and then engine wear.
I know that some here think that Amsoil is more n the business of selling oil than protecting their customers, but the 2 do go hand in hand, and Amsoil performs testing to verify all of their claims, using SAE and/ASTM specs to test to. Plus Amsoil has been in the business for over 40 years and they do have the resources to run exhaustive testing (and do!)
Bottom line: A
good air filter will prolong your engine life, far beyond just protecting the rings and/or bores. I'm running UniPods!
YES
I like mine.
Andy
Thanks for the diverse and informative responses guys.
The Jury is out !
I have K&N filters in both my FJ (in the stock air-box), and in my '95 Firehawk........and I have never had any horrible issues with them........
I can tell you that the K&N filter that is in my Firehawk, is the one that was in the car when I bought it....(bought the car in '99, with around 50,000 miles on it)
I now have more miles on that car than most people have on all their vehicles combined..............(currently 273,000)
I don't clean it very often (K&N actually recommends this), but I do look at it everytime I open the hood (It sits right on top of the radiator support)
It always looks dirty, however they say the dirt particles that stick to the oiled filter media help to trap more dirt particles..................so I leave it alone....
The engine is not worn-out..................It doesn't smoke or burn excessive oil..............I've never even had a valve-cover off the engine the whole time i have owned it...........
For a stock LT-1, it still runs strong, and I'd be willing to bet it has just as much horsepower as when it was new................maybe even a few extra :mocking:
The only thing that happens with these type of filters, is that some of the oil gets pulled off the filter, and gets ingested by the engine.......................Every once in a great while, I have had to clean the heater wires in my mass air flow sensor with a cotton swab, and some rubbing alcohol. The oil deposits on them, and leaves a film.........
I clean and re-oil the one in the FJ air-box once in a great while.(usually if I have to remove the airbox for some reason) Which is about once every 4 years or so........................Otherwise I leave it alone.
I am considering going with the UNI pods (only for the reasons that Noel stated) But I'm not sure if I want the extra intake noise? :scratch_one-s_head:
I'll have to decide that one down the road some time...............
For what its worth, when I cleaned out my UNI dual pods at the RPM shop during my last visit.... They were filthy, full of all kinds of dark dirt and grime. That covers about 6K miles of SoCal riding, not AZ sand and silt. So I know they filter, and I keep my off roading on the FJ to a minimum :blush:, and I like the ease and access of not having an air box.
With the Uni Pods, what sort of jetting changes are you finding necessary ?
I also saw the Ram Air Pods on ebay..........
Interesting opinions. I've got K&N's uni filters in both my FJs. They seem to work ok. Both bikes have big mileages so I'm not going to change now. K&N recommend cleaning at 50,000 miles. This is far too much. I'm in Scotland and it's not dusty here but they needed cleaning at 15,000 miles. When I sprayed the filter with K&N cleaner and put them into water the dirt that came out was very fine - like smoke - so they must be stopping very small particles.
Quote from: simi_ed on December 11, 2014, 11:13:44 AM
Noel, I must disagree with your statement above.
Ed, I've just read your post several times over and from my reading of it, we are saying exactly the same thing. Nothing to disagree with.
Airborne contaminants wear your engine out.
The amount of that wear is relative to how good your filtration is.
Good filtering = minimal wear.
No filtering = lots of wear.
The only thing that could ever be disagreed about on this subject is what offers the best filtering.
Noel
Quote from: FJools on December 11, 2014, 02:33:41 PM
With the Uni Pods, what sort of jetting changes are you finding necessary ?
None, I installed the ss screw/o ring kit in the carbs the same time as the filters so I had to retune the carbs anyway, but all the jets and needle heights are the same as before. Runs well with no flat spots and revs to redline strongly with that sweet induction sound.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on December 11, 2014, 05:08:30 AM
One could surmise, that if a company sold such garbage it would have ceased to exist long ago. Either that, or the marketing and selling of its products is one of the biggest scams/swindles perpetrated on motoring enthusiasts and performance seekers for a long time running.
This is a great quote.
First thing I thought of was Harley Davidson. :-)
Bose and K&N are products that don't come close to equaling their advertising campaigns.
Chiz
Quote from: chiz on December 11, 2014, 05:30:32 PM
Bose and K&N are products that don't come close to equaling their advertising campaigns.
Chiz
I feel the same way about this product...
https://www.pocketfisherman.com (https://www.pocketfisherman.com)
OP: I installed a UNI air box style filter this past spring. I can't speak to any changes in performance. For the cost of paper filters around here it made $ sense to go with the re-usable foam for that reason alone. It was a bit messy to get saturated and drained of excess filter oil before installation, but no headaches. I was all set to go with UNI pods because before this I had my carbs in and out so many times, someone said I should mount them with velcro. :)
Once I got the carbs dialed in, I have had no cause to remove them so I'm good with the air box setup.
(http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/ag17/Charliebrm/FJ1100/UNI_oem_style_air_filter_installed_zps850c9865.jpg) (http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/Charliebrm/media/FJ1100/UNI_oem_style_air_filter_installed_zps850c9865.jpg.html)
OK!
Ed
Quote from: Firehawk068 on December 11, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
I am considering going with the UNI pods (only for the reasons that Noel stated) But I'm not sure if I want the extra intake noise? :scratch_one-s_head:
I'll have to decide that one down the road some time...............
I`ve got a set of the dual uni`s on a recooperating FJ, ready to go, but untested yet. I too had concerns re the extra intake noise.
A few weeks ago I found myself in a 100klmhr speed zone doing 80klm/hr on the side car, behind a large truck. I went to overtake but was concerned at the distance of vision and the familiar missile just behind and in the overtaking lane, giving me a right of way. (Does he realise how wide I am?) I chose to let him have his head and backed off. Summarising the situation of my giving way and the diminishing vision of bitumen, the rider and new owner of my previously stock FJ passed safely, with the throat well and truly open. I immediately knew something was different with both the language, and my old girl`s delivery of it. I knew then, I wanted what he was having with her! (Basted....she was an innocent sweet thing! :cray: )
Now I can`t wait for my own Uni concert.
Quote from: The General on December 11, 2014, 08:56:36 PM
I immediately knew something was different with both the language, and my old girl`s delivery of it. I knew then, I wanted what he was having with her! (Basted....she was an innocent sweet thing! :cray: )
Now I can`t wait for my own Uni concert.
Ooooooohhhh.......................................You are tempting me......... :blush:
Quote from: The General on December 11, 2014, 08:56:36 PM
I immediately knew something was different with both the language, and my old girl`s delivery of it. I knew then, I wanted what he was having with her! (Basted....she was an innocent sweet thing! :cray: )
How could you not love a forum with talent like this. It's as if Shakespeare himself had taken to riding and discovered the rapture of induction roar.
Noel
Wow what a thread. :shok:
I have used both the K&N singles and the unipods on my fj.
Currently I run the Unipods due to the superior filtering ability.
The K&N singles required more maint as they would dry out , resulting in more carb work.
The uni's get a once a year cleaning and oiling and work well. less carb work.
If you are a redliner, pinning it , 2nd gear popping kind of rider, use the K&N's cause you're gonna be rebuilding the engine anyway. :wacko3:
Both make noise that is awesome and resonates thru your very soul. :dance:
Confused now, can't make my mind up - I knew I should have just left it.........................but great thread, great bunch!!! :drinks:
Quote from: FJools on December 12, 2014, 12:57:27 AM
Confused now, can't make my mind up - I knew I should have just left it.........................but great thread, great bunch!!! :drinks:
Just go buy the uni,s ..
There ya go , now you are all set.
usually you don't have to mess with the jetting unless you have a 4-1 exhaust. :drinks:
Have any of you hung out at "Joe Is The Oil Guy" web-site?
There are several threads about various air filters & the amount of silica found in the oil samples. Whenever someone changed from a paper filter to a mesh & gauze K&N type of filter, the silica numbers went up substantially. Supposedly paper still offers the best filtration, but less flow. I like having a washable re-useable filter vs. buying a new paper one every time a new filter is needed. In my personal experience over roughly twenty plus years, the oiled foam filters are far superior at trapping dirt than the mesh & gauze K&N filters. The exception is the AFE mesh & gauze filters. These filters are superior to the K&N in every respect. Check them out if you can't use an oiled foam filter for whatever reason. http://afepower.com/technology_detail.php?tech_id=6 (http://afepower.com/technology_detail.php?tech_id=6)
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period. How do I know this? All the moto X and professional dirt bike racers use them. These bikes are subjected to the harshest conditions in racing continuously in the dirt, mud and crud. I have Randy's unipods on my FJ. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period. How do I know this? All the moto X and professional dirt bike racers use them. These bikes are subjected to the harshest conditions in racing continuously in the dirt, mud and crud. I have Randy's unipods on my FJ. Dave
Dave, that is exactly what I said, foam filters are for just this very environment. Those guys use them for the very reason you describe, they are continuously covered in dirt, mud and crud, they have no choice.
That is the same as saying knobby tyres are the best because the moto X and professional dirt bike racers use them.
Nothing to do with riding on the road on a street machine.
You can't cite one as proof of merit for the other, totally different application.
Noel
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period.
If you believe this to be the case, why don't manufacturers of internal combustion everything use them?
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 12, 2014, 07:28:04 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period. How do I know this? All the moto X and professional dirt bike racers use them. These bikes are subjected to the harshest conditions in racing continuously in the dirt, mud and crud. I have Randy's unipods on my FJ. Dave
Dave, that is exactly what I said, foam filters are for just this very environment. Those guys use them for the very reason you describe, they are continuously covered in dirt, mud and crud, they have no choice.
That is the same as saying knobby tyres are the best because the moto X and professional dirt bike racers use them.
Nothing to do with riding on the road on a street machine.
You can't cite one as proof of merit for the other, totally different application.
Noel
I don't see it as a totally different application. Yes the dirt bikes are in a harsher environment but the application is the same. The most efficient filtering of the air. Dave
Quote from: ribbert on December 12, 2014, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period.
If you believe this to be the case, why don't manufacturers of internal combustion everything use them?
Noel
Initial mfg cost and owners ease of maintenance. Most owners replace the paper air filters with regular oil changes and this is alot easier than cleaning and reoiling their foam oil filters. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 07:42:19 AM
Quote from: ribbert on December 12, 2014, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period.
If you believe this to be the case, why don't manufacturers of internal combustion everything use them?
Noel
Initial mfg cost and owners ease of maintenance. Most owners replace the paper air filters with regular oil changes and this is alot easier than cleaning and reoiling their foam oil filters. Dave
.
The additional maintenance of foam filters is irrelevant when it comes to special purpose engines where performance, economy or longevity are critical. Adding foam filter maintenance to a Ferrari service would be a drop in the bucket. Likewise for long haul trucks or heavy plant. They use paper because they do the best job.
How many here have converted their daily drivers to foam filters? Those engines are worth a lot more than the FJ mill. About the same number that have converted their rubber brake hoses I imagine.
And, who changes their paper air filter with every oil change anyway?
When you've got a half million dollar engine in a commercial application you are only interested in one thing, whatever is best for the motor.
I've already exceeded my usual number of posts on one subject, that's it from me.
Noel
Yes paper is the best for filtering. And also when it gets too dirty it will let you know by cutting performance to the point that you will know. But if you want the convenience and economy of being able to clean and replace. The foam is next in line for filtering. Followed by AFE and some others. Then k& n. Then open velocity stacks.
Paper is also used because it generates a LOT of income for the manufacturers. And I suspect that is the main reason for them not using cleanable foam filters.(any more)
I too am done. I just wanted too share my personal experience with major loss due to use of k&n filters. So others could decide if they want to take the chance.
Quote from: ribbert on December 12, 2014, 08:25:17 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 07:42:19 AM
Quote from: ribbert on December 12, 2014, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period.
If you believe this to be the case, why don't manufacturers of internal combustion everything use them?
Noel
Initial mfg cost and owners ease of maintenance. Most owners replace the paper air filters with regular oil changes and this is alot easier than cleaning and reoiling their foam oil filters. Dave
.
The additional maintenance of foam filters is irrelevant when it comes to special purpose engines where performance, economy or longevity are critical. Adding foam filter maintenance to a Ferrari service would be a drop in the bucket. Likewise for long haul trucks or heavy plant. They use paper because they do the best job.
How many here have converted their daily drivers to foam filters? Those engines are worth a lot more than the FJ mill. About the same number that have converted their rubber brake hoses I imagine.
And, who changes their paper air filter with every oil change anyway?
When you've got a half million dollar engine in a commercial application you are only interested in one thing, whatever is best for the motor.
I've already exceeded my usual number of posts on one subject, that's it from me.
Noel
I agree with everything except "they use paper because they do the best job". Even K&N recommends their heavy duty filters for Heavy duty truck and industrial engine applications. These filters are non oiled washable composed of a "hybrid filter medium comprised of a thick lofted 3D non woven synthetic media." Sounds like and looks like foam to me. They claim better filtering with a thicker filtering area. Dave
Quote from: ribbert on December 12, 2014, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: TexasDave on December 12, 2014, 06:46:48 AM
The most efficient air cleaners are oil impregnated foam type period.
If you believe this to be the case, why don't manufacturers of internal combustion everything use them?
Noel
How old are you Noel?
I'm 51 & I can recall older trucks with an oiled foam filter from the factory. Many engine manufacturers used to use, or still do use, an oiled foam filter. Especially in the small engine arena. It has only been since the end of the 50's or so, that the paper filters started becoming the norm. Paper is the most convenient & probably easier to manufacture. Paper also has an edge on any filter that requires oil. The paper filters don't gunk up your mass air flow sensors like an oiled filter can.
I think I've expressed myself the best that I'm able. I'm a believer in oiled foam.
The paper type would also have to have a greater surface area from their design compared to an equivalent foam type (not pods)
I wouldn't expect the dirt bike guys would be wanting to change paper filters every race so oiled foam is more a convenience/maintenance/cost thing.
And so with that in mind and the milkeage and terrain I ride in I will probably stick with the paper type.
Having said that, I should check what is already fitted first...... :yes:
3 pages of posts and you haven't even looked inside . next you will ask how to get the seat off. :sarcastic:
:hang1:
Quote from: ~JM~ on December 12, 2014, 10:36:11 AM
How old are you Noel?
Haha, old enough for many of the vehicles I worked as a young bloke to have oil bath air filters.
Noel
I figured you might be familiar with the old style of oil bath filters.
Quote from: Mark Olson on December 12, 2014, 02:39:08 PM
3 pages of posts and you haven't even looked inside . next you will ask how to get the seat off. :sarcastic:
:hang1:
Now you come to mention it.........................I did have to look in the handbook :shok:
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on December 11, 2014, 05:08:30 AM
However, if they are such junk, I don't understand why a quality supply house such as RPM Racing offers them http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3Aknfilter (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3Aknfilter)
I stock them because people ask for them. I have covered this topic many times in the past, and the difference between the air box K&N filter and the carb mounted filters is the distance from the carbs and how the fuel mist washes the single layer media of the K&N gauze filters when directly mounted to the carbs.
Since the air box filter is so far away combined with the velocity stacks, the fuel cannot get there to wash them out, unlike the K&N's mounted directly to the carbs.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9615.msg91512;topicseen#msg91512 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9615.msg91512;topicseen#msg91512)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1041.msg7676;topicseen#msg7676 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1041.msg7676;topicseen#msg7676)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6908.msg61387;topicseen#msg61387 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6908.msg61387;topicseen#msg61387)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9433.msg89492;topicseen#msg89492 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9433.msg89492;topicseen#msg89492)
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4245.msg37424;topicseen#msg37424 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4245.msg37424;topicseen#msg37424)
Now as far as performance comparison, if you read about half way down regarding Flynt's 1350 you can see what FP found on their dyno.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9688.msg92264;topicseen#msg92264 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9688.msg92264;topicseen#msg92264)
Randy - RPM