Well, I think............................... I know which I will go for. Just curious about your thoughts?
Currently have the 16" standard rear wheel. Nitron shock fitted.
From what I have gathered lately, early 90's GSXR750/1100 rear wheels are scarce in England. :pardon: Days spent searching the web for all the accomponing bits and pieces :dash1:
A few clicks of a mouse and RPM fork valves can be headed your way.
Looks like an easy choice........RPM
Fred
On www.allegro.pl (http://www.allegro.pl) You can find all parts for rim swap in 15 minutes from one lad and one motorbike. For 100-200 Euro plus 20-40 Euro postage.
Only one catch...... It is Polish website :hi:
Just jack up the gas cap on your FJ and put a modern bike under it. :good:
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on November 13, 2014, 04:26:24 PM
Just jack up the gas cap on your FJ and put a modern bike under it. :good:
What fun would that be?
Quote from: aviationfred on November 13, 2014, 03:36:38 PM
From what I have gathered lately, early 90's GSXR750/1100 rear wheels are scarce in England. :pardon: Days spent searching the web for all the accomponing bits and pieces :dash1:
A few clicks of a mouse and RPM fork valves can be headed your way.
Looks like an easy choice........RPM
Fred
early suzuki bandit rear wheels are the same as the gixers... the 600 is 4.5 and the 1200 is 5.5 also the rf 6 and 900 wheels and rear brakes :good: thats the good thing with suzuki they use the same parts on different models ...
Quote from: TexasDave on November 13, 2014, 04:29:22 PM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on November 13, 2014, 04:26:24 PM
Just jack up the gas cap on your FJ and put a modern bike under it. :good:
What fun would that be?
In the riding and braking department, a whole lot of fun.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on November 13, 2014, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: TexasDave on November 13, 2014, 04:29:22 PM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on November 13, 2014, 04:26:24 PM
Just jack up the gas cap on your FJ and put a modern bike under it. :good:
What fun would that be?
In the riding and braking department, a whole lot of fun.
True. But it is also fun modding the old bikes to improve their handling and braking. :biggrin: Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on November 13, 2014, 04:45:40 PM
True. But it is also fun modding the old bikes to improve their handling and braking. :biggrin: Dave
Yea Dave I know. That's why I own three of these damn things. Always something to play around with. Plus, the satisfaction of people's comments when they see one. "I used to own one of those", "What year is that, really?", and the like.
Mmmm, the valves plus the Racetech springs from Randy really transform the front end, really nice. The GSXR wheel is great as well, but you would probably get the most satisfaction from the front end upgrade first. Only problem with mine is the superb feeling forks now show up how shitty the rear standard shock is, LOL :good2:
To my way of thinking, it's most important to keep whatever rubber you have in the best contact with the road. I would (and have) put suspension well ahead of wider tires. Straight-rate springs, fork valves and a proper rear shock will make your bike feel more "planted" on the road. After that, think about your best path to fat tires.
Quote from: Capn Ron on November 14, 2014, 01:28:54 AM
To my way of thinking, it's most important to keep whatever rubber you have in the best contact with the road. I would (and have) put suspension well ahead of wider tires. Straight-rate springs, fork valves and a proper rear shock will make your bike feel more "planted" on the road.
In total agreement. I put an aftermarket shock on to replace the worn-out stocker, and straight-rate springs too. Those two mods combined with a flush and fill of good fork oil, and fresh rubber, made a world of difference in handling. Of course, it has on all of the other bikes that I've done it to.
I'm looking at the RPM fork valves too, but am waiting for the much-anticipated customer appreciation sale for them. :rofl2:
Much as I thought, upgrade the front end then.
I did the GSXR rear wheel mod first due to cost, then later did the entire front.
FZR1000 wheel (17 x 3.5)
89 forks
Blue-Dot calipers
Galfer (like) rotors
HH pads
braided lines
RPM vales
straight rate springs (.85)
90 degree valve stem (easier to air up)
What a major difference that made, I felt like I got a new FJ that was planted in the front around corners regardless of surface condition. If you can afford to do the front, then do that first. I did not notice any improvements by changing the rear wheel. However, as mentioned by X-Ray, once the front is upgraded, the rear is really gonna feel like cold custard in an old sock. You have been warned. Let us know your impressions after you get the front upgraded. We really do like to hear about modifications to our FJs.
Quote from: Capn Ron on November 14, 2014, 01:28:54 AM
To my way of thinking, it's most important to keep whatever rubber you have in the best contact with the road. I would (and have) put suspension well ahead of wider tires. Straight-rate springs, fork valves and a proper rear shock will make your bike feel more "planted" on the road. After that, think about your best path to fat tires.
+1 on the suspension first. I have Randy's fork mod and shock. I was very happy with the handling at the Central Rally twisties in the Ozarks riding on 16" wheels. I am running Avon Azaro radials and am happy with their performance and longevity. Unfortunately I have just received another 16" rear tire and understand Avon is discontinuing the 16" Azaro. I might be forced to find 17" wheels. Dave
I have just fitted a 16" Avon Storm 3DXM to mine.
Do the front end with Randy's RPM fork valves. You will not be disappointed.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9670.msg92044#msg92044 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9670.msg92044#msg92044)
Cheers...Jake
Quote from: TexasDave on November 17, 2014, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: Capn Ron on November 14, 2014, 01:28:54 AM
To my way of thinking, it's most important to keep whatever rubber you have in the best contact with the road. I would (and have) put suspension well ahead of wider tires. Straight-rate springs, fork valves and a proper rear shock will make your bike feel more "planted" on the road. After that, think about your best path to fat tires.
+1 on the suspension first. I have Randy's fork mod and shock. I was very happy with the handling at the Central Rally twisties in the Ozarks riding on 16" wheels. I am running Avon Azaro radials and am happy with their performance and longevity. Unfortunately I have just received another 16" rear tire and understand Avon is discontinuing the 16" Azaro. I might be forced to find 17" wheels. Dave
Could not agree more. if its an Either or decision suspension or wheels, suspension would be my priority with the front having priority over the rear.
when I did my 92 I did the front first;
blue dots
rotors
ss braided lines
RPM valves
.85 race tech straight rate springs
3.5" wide front wheel
and I did it all at the same time, I just wanted it done. part of me wishes I had done it in stages to see how the improvements affected the handling in progression. EG... forks, then brakes, then fatter rubber...
when I did the rear, again I did it all at once;
FZ1 swingarm, FZ1 shock, FZ1 blue dot, 5.5" wheel with 180 conti-motions. I raised the ass end 2inches but did it by welding a new upper shock mount instead of doing it with dog bones. I wanted to keep the shock linkage geometry as Mr Yamaha designed it.
My FJ is officially done... now my XR650 is scratching my Moditus itch :wacko3:
Scott
Just ordered the bits from Randy.............. well, it is The Black Friday sale :good2:
Hi
Newbie here - this is my second post !
I was drawn to this topic straight away :good2:
I picked up my '92 FJ1200 yesterday and although it has a race tech front end, my first consideration is replacing this with some 43mm R6 triples, forks and blue spots I have lying around. I first need to measure axle to fork tops in the extended position to see how close they are.
It already has EBC rotors on the front but the brakes don't seem to have much initial feel.
Then the rear shock, which is probably original. What do you guys recommend? - bearing in mind I'll probably go 17" at the same time. Any tyre clearance issues ?
Jools
Quote from: FJools on November 29, 2014, 06:44:32 PM
Then the rear shock, which is probably original. What do you guys recommend? - bearing in mind I'll probably go 17" at the same time. Any tyre clearance issues ?
Jools
Many of us have posted up on 17" conversions for the front and rear. If ya go to a 5.5 inch wide rear then you will get mixed results on a 180 wide tire clearing the chain. I run the Continental Motion combination and the rear clears the chain with a few MM to spare. When I ran the Dunlop Q2 set the chain machined off about 3 to 4 MM of the side of the tire. Not enough to worry about but the side load on the chain might reduce the chain life. Poke around, lots of good info already posted. If you get lost then holler for help....
Rear shock you ask? Many good options. I chose the RPM rear shock after installing the RPM fork valves. Awesome product, made my FJ feel like a new machine.... The fork valves have made my FJ and I faster in the corners, they are so smooth now...
I just finished reading the link to the UK site (?)
There seem a lot of options for the rear conversion but I might go with the simpler option of a new shock until this new rear Pirelli wears out.
The main reason for going to the R6 front end is because the std 41mm FJ forks will go nicely in my Period 5 CMR chassis for my TZ750 race bike, which needs a better chassis and 17" wheels to be competitive these days. I bought the R6 items thinking they were 41mm, but they are of course 43mm so can't be used - neither could the blue spot callipers.
How different is the 86 - 87 rear shock from the 92 ?
Quote from: FJools on December 01, 2014, 03:32:01 PM
How different is the 86 - 87 rear shock from the 92 ?
Here is my stock 84/87 shock next to the RPM 89+ shock:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/104_24_11_14_1_12_09_0.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/104_24_11_14_1_12_13_1.jpeg)
I did not take any measurements of the difference, you will have to take a swag at the approximate difference. I am guessing about 0.75 of an inch.
A question Mark, When you look at the front cross member of the swing arm (the area behind the shock spring) do you have clearance between the spring coil and that cross member under load? Any signs of rubbing or binding on the swing arm cross member ?
I do not run the RPM shock but have a shock of similar dimensions as yours the coil bottom is lower than the stock FJ spring was and initially when I installed it with raised dog bones when I sat on it (under load) then it would impact/rub slightly against the swing arm cross member. The fix for me was to adjust the dog bones now I have a few mm of clearance. My rear end is still approx 3/4-1 inch higher than stock. My problem was that my dog bones were to long for where the new spring was located. It did take some fine tuning of the dog bones.
I was just looking at your photo's remembered a problem I had with a slightly longer shock with the spring mounted lower.
George
George, you ask a good question. I am breaching uncharted territory in my quest for dog bones on my 86'. I have some miles on my 86' with the 89+ shock and longer than expected dog bones. I found that I cannot have my center stand (CS) installed, it is held/pushed down low enough that I could lean over and hit the CS and lose control under normal riding conditions. I was lucky to discover this before my recent ride with Cap'n Ron and Simi_Ed. I am sure Ed has cleaned and repainted my CS by now. I will get a ratchet strap and compress the rear to make sure the current configuration will not hit any unexpected hard stops. As it is I am riding with caution, I have made changes and that alone is cause for caution. And the changes are beyond the OEM intended geometry so things could go really wonky. The current set up feels better than the sacked out OEM shock so I am happy to be putting the miles and smiles on the SoCal roads this season...
The reason I asked was that looking at Ohlins shocks (just looking -= honestly!)
They list different types for:
1986 - 87
1988 - 90
1991 - 93
But without listing the differences. Makes it hard to work out if an earlier shock will still fit the later bike, taking in to account the latest replies of course.
Hey Mark,
when I was installing my FZ1 arm and shock I thought I would need some adjustable dogbones. I ended up making a new top shock mount and keeping the stock doggies on the link arm. you are welcome to the adjustables if you want them. Ill be home first of jan.
Scott
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 01, 2014, 06:10:25 PM
George, you ask a good question. I am breaching uncharted territory in my quest for dog bones on my 86'. I have some miles on my 86' with the 89+ shock and longer than expected dog bones. I found that I cannot have my center stand (CS) installed, it is held/pushed down low enough that I could lean over and hit the CS and lose control under normal riding conditions. I was lucky to discover this before my recent ride with Cap'n Ron and Simi_Ed. I am sure Ed has cleaned and repainted my CS by now. I will get a ratchet strap and compress the rear to make sure the current configuration will not hit any unexpected hard stops. As it is I am riding with caution, I have made changes and that alone is cause for caution. And the changes are beyond the OEM intended geometry so things could go really wonky. The current set up feels better than the sacked out OEM shock so I am happy to be putting the miles and smiles on the SoCal roads this season...
My shock is 290mm center to center of the mounting holes just for info. My center stand is back on so far no problems dragging but you are a much more proficient rider than I am. The stand when retracted rests on the muffler stop so I guess it is as it should be. My current spring diameter might be larger than your also. All I can say is mine is close with the modified dog bones. On mine I could bounce hard on the seat and her something down there squeaking and it didn't feel right. If it is impacting or rubbing against the swing arm cross brace you should see some marks on the cross brace and marks on the back side of the spring. You are probably OK I am just throwing out what happened to me.
It will be interesting to hear what you find out about the upper mount. I know the 91-93 mounts are higher and offset, they use a shallower but wider battery than the 84-90"s enabling Yamaha to raise the upper mount.
George
Scott, I may be interested in the adjustable bones. That will help me dial things in when I start playing around with any corrections I may need to do. No rush, I am waiting to hear back from Randy after he has had the chance to look at few different years of frames. My bike is ride-able, just pissing rain right now so I will stay inside where it is warm.
George, my CS was held down an inch or more and would not rest on the bumper. Not safe for any skill of rider. Once I get the shock mounted correctly, the CS will fit properly once again.
Is the RPM not adjustable for riide height/length?
Every aftermarket shock I have purchased has had this feature. I am somewhat surprised if it is not.
Quote from: the fan on December 02, 2014, 03:10:47 PM
Is the RPM not adjustable for riide height/length?
Every aftermarket shock I have purchased has had this feature. I am somewhat surprised if it is not.
The RPM shock does not have that feature. The other shocks had to fit a wider selection of bikes so they had to be adjustable. The RPM shock was designed specifically for our FJs. However, the 89+ FJs have dog bones that allow the height to be altered by swapping them with longer or shorter (dog bone) links. Or you could do what I am working on, convert my 86' to have 89+ rear suspension with the dog bones. I recommend that if you chose this path, wait till I can post up details of my project. I have a few bugs to work out to get the upper shock mount in the proper position.
I hope that helps.
I am not a suspension expert, but, according to all the guru's I have talked to (Jim Lindemann RIP, Ed Sobro, Dan @Traxxion) they all agree that on raising the rear height, it is preferable to do it with extending the shock rather than messing with the swing arm links.
+1
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 02, 2014, 04:29:42 PM
I am not a suspension expert, but, according to all the guru's I have talked to (Jim Lindemann RIP, Ed Sobro, Dan @Traxxion) they all agree that on raising the rear height, it is preferable to do it with extending the shock rather than messing with the swing arm links.
Pat, I have always been taught the same. I assumed the RPM shock had this feature but never really looked into it.
I agree with avoiding altering the suspension geometry (my current geometry is scary looking :shok:). But the amount of change is not that much if you upgraded to a 17" wheel and you want put the tire contact point back to OEM.
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 02, 2014, 05:55:24 PM
I agree with avoiding altering the suspension geometry (my current geometry is scary looking :shok:). But the amount of change is not that much if you upgraded to a 17" wheel and you want put the tire contact point back to OEM.
I bet someone will have an aneurism over the rear setup I've run for years on my 89 - FZ1 swingarm, 94 FZR1000 knuckle, 94 FZR1000 shock, FJ1100 spring, and adjustable dog bones...all combined with R1 forks that are shorter than stock FJ forks. :diablo:
QuoteI am not a suspension expert, but, according to all the guru's I have talked to (Jim Lindemann RIP, Ed Sobro, Dan @Traxxion) they all agree that on raising the rear height, it is preferable to do it with extending the shock rather than messing with the swing arm links.
Pat, did they elaborate? I'm cutting some shorter bones to go with my GSXR wheel / RPM shock conversion.
I don't know if this will help as I'm still running the standard rear shock, but I went from the factory 12.5cm centre to centre dog bones to 11.5cm C to C.
Works great with around an inch seat height rise, but more importantly for me puts the back wheel closer to the ground when using the centre stand, nearly launch the bike through the shed wall now. :biggrin:
Some interesting reading Rick here http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12381.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12381.0) and here http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12370.15 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12370.15)
Hoo Roo
Quote from: ZOA NOM on December 03, 2014, 04:06:37 AM
QuoteI am not a suspension expert, but, according to all the guru's I have talked to (Jim Lindemann RIP, Ed Sobro, Dan @Traxxion) they all agree that on raising the rear height, it is preferable to do it with extending the shock rather than messing with the swing arm links.
Pat, did they elaborate? I'm cutting some shorter bones to go with my GSXR wheel / RPM shock conversion.
If you're only altering the height a small amount, go for it.
Those comments are technically correct but idealistic and based on the theory that the linkages in standard configuration offer the most efficient relationship between swing arm movement and shocker action as calculated by people with far more resources than us. Theoretically, any deviation from that diminishes it's performance.
The reality is that small changes will not have any perceivable negative effect, as shown by the many here who have done it, some with very high and hard mileages.
The other thing is, the OD of the 16" and 17" wheel is much the same because of the different tyre profiles but the bike's handling does seem to benefit from raising the rear end a bit. Unlike many of the touted improvements floating around, this does actually improve handling.
Go for it, there are many who have gone before you. Just don't fall for the trap of thinking more is better when it comes to how much you raise it.
Noel
"Just don't fall for the trap of thinking more is better when it comes to how much you raise it."
Been there... All I can recommend is don't get it to far out of balance.
George
Great feedback, thanks. I've laid out a set of bones at 115mm c-c, so I'm making the same change as X-Ray. Now if this damned rain would let up...
The fork upgrade is on hold....................... I am splitting up with my partner of 15 years.
Quote from: ELIMINATOR on January 22, 2015, 02:23:06 PM
The fork upgrade is on hold....................... I am splitting up with my partner of 15 years.
Sorry to hear that...it's a big change for sure with a lot of adjustments to make. Hey, maybe it's time for an upgrade there as well? :biggrin:
That is why I am splitting up.