Hi Everyone
Growing up in Ireland I started riding at 17 with the purchase of a Yamaha RD 350.
I thought it was a cool bike until I saw the FJ1100 but at its price I could not afford it.
Well fast foward 27 years and various bikes and I find myself in the US and I have bought a 92 Fj1200 .
I love the bike, its old school lines and confortable riding position and the familiar style.
I do have an issue with my clutch that I hope someone can help with.
It seems to be a very heavy clutch in that a lot of pressure has to be used to pull
the lever in.
The clock says it has 14K on it I dont know if that is correct or not. The clutch does
not slip no matter how much gas I give it so I dont think it worn plates. It is also
easy to shift up and down through the gears.
I replaced the fluid and bled both master and slave cylinders when I got the bike.
My understanding is that the FJ does not use a number of spings in the clutch but a
plate like single spring. I also dont know if the previous owner has changed
the oem plates for aftermarket ones.
So fellas what should I be looking for to have such a heavy clutch..
Thanks in advance
Welcome ! The clutch spring is a diaphragm. One mod is to double up on them. Here is a good link to read. It might help to give you a picture of how it is designed. I tried stacking the spring once and personally found it to stiff so I went back to a new single spring. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0)
George
I will look in to that. I wonder how much easier it is to pull in the clutch lever using a FJR 14 mm piston than the stock FJ piston. If I could get a 25% improvement I would be happy.
Someone else will have to answer that. I am using the stock FJ M/C.
George
Wildfire, that is an uncommon issue unless, as George points out, someone has doubled up the spring which at 14k would seem unlikely, although people have been known to do it even without a slipping clutch.
I have the same model (not that it matters) and it is a very easy 2 finger operation, even 1 finger is easy.
I sometimes change gears thousands of times a day and never give it a thought and without any sign of fatigue.
A different m/c is not the solution because a standard FJ clutch is not heavy, there must be some other reason.
At that mileage and age it has spent a lot of time sitting around unused. How many miles have you put on it since buying it?
Bikes tend to show their mileage more than cars and it should be reasonably obvious is the odometer is in the ballpark.
The system is pretty simple with only a few components that could cause this. Start with simple stuff, is the lever free moving and well lubricated.
If you have acces to an experienced mechanic he should be able to narrow down where the stiffness is happening by feel.
Even if you ultimately isolate each component to check for freedom of movement, it's not a big job and there are plenty here that will walk you through it.
Good luck, the 92's are a great model with many improvements over the early years but most significantly, the rubber mounted motor is turbine smooth at highway speeds. The FJ is a great allrounder.
Noel
Welcome to the group. :hi:
As the above members have stated, a heavier than normal clutch pull is rare on an OEM clutch. The doubled up OEM clutch spring has been addressed. Another possibility is that you have a Barnett or A.P.E. clutch installed with the heavy duty springs.
Fred
Thanks all for the replies. I do suspect that the clutch had been modified since it is way too heavy for what I feel it should be but is really only a pain in traffic. I will have a look at it and see what if any changes were made to the oem clutch . At least I dont have to drain the oil to do so which is great. Worse case scenaro I will put it back to stock specs assuming clutch components are easily obtained..
I recently replaced my clutch as it was slipping. I discovered it was an after market clutch with thinner (redish colored) fibers and steels to increase the friction surface area. But it was a sticking clutch for the 17 years I owned it, damn the PO for that down grade!!! I now have the OEM steels and fibers with a single spring and all is well. Butter smooth if I had to describe it. The OEM clutch is one thing that does not require change(s) for a healthy stock engine....
Ok so can anyone in the US recommend a good online store that sells FJ OEM Parts and actually keeps their website up to date.
Mark (monkey) and I agree that a stock clutch with a single spring will give you the same life expectancy and performance as any other wet clutch, on average about 80k. This figure varies wildly though depending on use or abuse and choice of oil and frequency of changes.
In my opinion, the widely held view that the FJ clutch is weak is a myth. Although I formed that view from a wide spread of bikes, my own only started to slip at 80k and even then only under the harshest conditions, high revs, high gears,full throttle. I rode it for another 15k before replacing it. I consider this a pretty good life from a wet clutch.
Stock components are readily available and modestly priced.
Noel
RPM You will find him on this site. Randy sells a lot of FJ specific parts and is a wealth of knowledge. Anything you want to know he will probably have an answer for you. Big R
Quote from: wildfire on November 07, 2014, 08:55:16 PM
Ok so can anyone in the US recommend a good online store that sells FJ OEM Parts and actually keeps their website up to date.
As Big R pointed out, I got my clutch parts from RPM www.rpmracingca.com (http://www.rpmracingca.com). I have been to his shop and enjoyed a few FJ rallies with the man. He is a Yamaha dealer so he gets parts direct from the supplier. Feel free to check his prices, he is a straight shooter and has my full support...
Quote from: wildfire on November 07, 2014, 08:55:16 PM
Ok so can anyone in the US recommend a good online store that sells FJ OEM Parts and actually keeps their website up to date.
www.RPMracingCa.com (http://www.rpmracingca.com)
Randy - RPM
Can you tell us where you are located and are you comfortable working on your bike ? Do you have basic tools ? If I were you I would pull the clutch cover off and investigate what you have for a spring. You will need a clutch cover gasket, a torque wrench and a few sockets. With the bike on the side stand you will not lose any oil. To read about it and look at the pictures it can look confusing but it is real simple if you have some basic mechanical knowledge. Hard to judge ones desires or ability via the internet. The most important thing is to ask questions first and take your time. As you can see there is lots of help here.
As noted a stock master cylinder works fine with the stock or near stock diaphragm spring. If you ever want to upgrade or replace the spring then get with RPM and buy the FJR spring he has.
A picture sometimes helps. Go to this link scroll down to the clutch topic and click on the picture. When you remove the cover this is what you are looking at if it is stock. The spring is what you are looking at under those 6 small bolts and small steel ring. http://www.fj1200.info/Engine.html (http://www.fj1200.info/Engine.html)
George
Quote from: movenon on November 07, 2014, 11:56:29 PM
Can you tell us where you are located and are you comfortable working on your bike ? Do you have basic tools ? If I were you I would pull the clutch cover off and investigate what you have for a spring. You will need a clutch cover gasket, a torque wrench and a few sockets. With the bike on the side stand you will not lose any oil. To read about it and look at the pictures it can look confusing but it is real simple if you have some basic mechanical knowledge. Hard to judge ones desires or ability via the internet. The most important thing is to ask questions first and take your time. As you can see there is lots of help here.
As noted a stock master cylinder works fine with the stock or near stock diaphragm spring. If you ever want to upgrade or replace the spring then get with RPM and buy the FJR spring he has.
A picture sometimes helps. Go to this link scroll down to the clutch topic and click on the picture. When you remove the cover this is what you are looking at if it is stock. The spring is what you are looking at under those 6 small bolts and small steel ring. http://www.fj1200.info/Engine.html (http://www.fj1200.info/Engine.html)
George
I am in Lake Bluff illinois.I have replaced clutch packs, basket hub etc on bikes and atvs before along wth other general mechanic work , carbs, stators etc
and have all the necessary tools so I am not phased about working on the FJ. I just wantd to confirm what i expected.
On a side note I do have a few valve shims that I have left over from replacing some on my FJ so
I am more than willing to donate them to the forum when I dig them out as I have just moved house and thingsare still in boxes.
Tom
Welcome Wildfire! Do you like to play with matches :lol: Enjoy the FJ.
Thanks for the information Tom. It helps. sometimes we start to discuss how to do something not having any idea of the capability's or experience of the other party. The cheapest and easiest thing to do is see what you have for a spring or springs. If you need or would like some input you might start a post in the "Yamaha FJ1100 / FJ1200 Running Problems". :good2:
Not everyone is on it but more and more are adding to it, is member locations on ZEE Map. You might check it out.
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=724879# (https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=724879#)
George
Wildfire I am in Elgin i am from Scotland and I am taking one of my FJ's for a ride today.I am going to Lake Zurich this afternoon at 1:30.Happy to help out if possible.
You can put the bike on the side stand and remove the cover.Takes 5 min to open up and then you can operate the clutch and watch it move.
OEM will have a single spring aftermarket/barnet will have 6 springs.
Easy to see whats going on.
My # is 630 202 6472 if you have any questions.
I have a double oem spring in my 85 and a Barnet in my 90 and i dont have any issues with a stiff clutch.
Welcome to the forum.
Scott,
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on November 09, 2014, 10:50:18 AM
Wildfire I am in Elgin i am from Scotland and I am taking one of my FJ's for a ride today.I am going to Lake Zurich this afternoon at 1:30.Happy to help out if possible.
You can put the bike on the side stand and remove the cover.Takes 5 min to open up and then you can operate the clutch and watch it move.
OEM will have a single spring aftermarket/barnet will have 6 springs.
Easy to see whats going on.
My # is 630 202 6472 if you have any questions.
I have a double oem spring in my 85 and a Barnet in my 90 and i dont have any issues with a stiff clutch.
Welcome to the forum.
Hello and thanks for the kind for the kind offer. The wife has my day planned so I am going to tackle the clutch during the week. Its good to know there is another FJ owner not too far away. Maybe we could go for a ride sometime in the future.
Tom
Scott,
A ride sometime would be fun.
SCOTT........
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on November 09, 2014, 11:14:35 AM
A ride sometime would be fun.
SCOTT........
Keep me in mind, too, fellas. I'm a little further away - around Princeton - but I'd be interested.
Quote from: rlucas on November 10, 2014, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on November 09, 2014, 11:14:35 AM
A ride sometime would be fun.
SCOTT........
Keep me in mind, too, fellas. I'm a little further away - around Princeton - but I'd be interested.
Will do. Lets hope the white stuff does not come to early this year.
White stuff?
What's that?
Bwhaaaahaaahaaa!
Welcome Tom....
Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 10, 2014, 04:16:10 PM
White stuff?
What's that?
Bwhaaaahaaahaaa!
Welcome Tom....
Pat, Damn you, Damn you i say :biggrin:
Got a cold spell coming here but I will still get out when I can.
Any pictures of your FJ Wildfire ?
Tiskilwa going to google map that lol............
2 hours no big deal Rossi....
Quote from: Flying Scotsman on November 11, 2014, 09:15:07 AM
Got a cold spell coming here but I will still get out when I can.
Any pictures of your FJ Wildfire ?
I put a pic in the Fj Bikes gallery but for some reason I cant add one to profile. I select the pic and it appears to be attached but when I click change profile the pic is not saved.
It looks familiar,I think I saw it listed for sale somewhere in the past.
Posting it here:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4425_11_11_14_11_06_04.jpeg)
Nice paint job! It's rare that something other than factory looks good to me...I like it! :good2:
Quote from: Capn Ron on November 11, 2014, 04:57:33 PM
Posting it here:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4425_11_11_14_11_06_04.jpeg)
Nice paint job! It's rare that something other than factory looks good to me...I like it! :good2:
Yes I like the paint job too.It was done by the PO. Looks even better when the bike is clean and waxed up.
Welcome Wildfire! That is a cool lookin paint job...nice FJ. I'm mid-state WI. I'm hoping come spring some of us from the tri-state (Ill. Min. WI.) area can get together for a ride or some local ralleys keep that in mind. It is now snowing here and the temp is in the 20s...this makes me sad...Pat, its not funny! Cheers! Charley.
Quote from: charleygofast on November 11, 2014, 06:07:54 PM
Welcome Wildfire! That is a cool lookin paint job...nice FJ. I'm mid-state WI. I'm hoping come spring some of us from the tri-state (Ill. Min. WI.) area can get together for a ride or some local ralleys keep that in mind. It is now snowing here and the temp is in the 20s...this makes me sad...Pat, its not funny! Cheers! Charley.
Thanks for the welcome. I will be up in Wisconsin next Sat for the deer season so hope it is not as cold as last year.
Yeah we should definitely organize some group rides when the weather is good enough.
Quote from: wildfire on November 11, 2014, 07:16:40 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I will be up in Wisconsin next Sat for the deer season so hope it is not as cold as last year.
Yeah we should definitely organize some group rides when the weather is good enough.
[/quote]Good luck to you...Them bastards have been trying to take me out all summer! They deserve to die and be eaten! Its gonna be cold, very cold...sorry. What part of WI will you be hunting? Again,good luck and take care,and be carefull...above all, "watch everything, and enjoy the piss out of it!!!" Charley. :drinks:
Welcome Wild. I'm about halfway up Wisconsin. Fond du Lac. I really like the paint too. Next year.. If you guys are going for a ride I'd ride down to meet you. Is there any good riding in Illinois? If there is I'd like to ride it.
The more riders the better. Roll on the spring.
Quote from: Mike 86 in San Dimas on November 08, 2014, 05:49:12 PM
Welcome Wildfire! Do you like to play with matches :lol: Enjoy the FJ.
Maybe this from Johnny Cash would explain it?
"Well, bad news travels like wild fire
Good news travels slow
They all call me 'Wildfire' 'cause everybody knows
I'm bad news, everywhere I go"
johnny cash - bad news.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21QrQfh0S4c#)
Quote from: ribbert on November 07, 2014, 09:08:15 PM
In my opinion, the widely held view that the FJ clutch is weak is a myth. Although I formed that view from a wide spread of bikes, my own only started to slip at 80k and even then only under the harshest conditions, high revs, high gears,full throttle. I rode it for another 15k before replacing it. I consider this a pretty good life from a wet clutch.
Stock components are readily available and modestly priced.
Noel
I know it's an old thread, but it's relevant to me as I'm swaying towards believing (or hoping) the stock clutch with single spring IS enough for the FJ. I've had the double spring mod for a while now and in town traffic it is awful on my fingers, and so for that reason I am waiting on new spring/plates/steels - all Yamaha originals which I hope will last the life of the bike and make using the clutch more of an automatic process rather than something I dread because it is so heavy...I do have a ZZR1100 clutch master which is supposed to make life easier for the double spring approach, but not enough for me.
Anyway, I will be sorting all that out over the next few weeks so hopefully all will be well on the grippage front..
Incidentally, I have had 2 previous FJ's 10-15 years ago neither of which had any problems on that front, and were all running stock spring / master cylinder. Admittedly they were both lower mileages (25-35000 miles) but it does play into the argument that the stock clutch is enough as long as all the parts are within their reasonable lifespan.
I'm sure many have already made their minds up on this issue, but on the off chance 1 or 2 are thinking the same way it may be interesting to someone. :good2:
Cheers! :drinks:
mark
Mark, I can't speak for mileage but the stock clutch with the stock spring worked really well for me. I could not get it to slip. I think Yamaha got it right for the FJ...
The slipping clutch is real and not a myth.
It all depends on how much weight you put on the FJ's back.
The latest testing by Muppet Labs has confirmed a single spring is good enough if you substitute a full size disc for the skinny one deepest in the pack.
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 27, 2015, 07:00:02 PM
The slipping clutch is real and not a myth.
It all depends on how much weight you put on the FJ's back.
The latest testing by Muppet Labs has confirmed a single spring is good enough if you substitute a full size disc for the skinny one deepest in the pack.
Oh yea, I did that as well...
Me too, the fat fibre plate mod is already in the bike and will also be part of the newly reconditioned clutch...I don't really carry pillions too often, so weight shouldn't be too much of an issue. I'm not too lardy..
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 27, 2015, 07:00:02 PM
The slipping clutch is real and not a myth.
It all depends on how much weight you put on the FJ's back.
The latest testing by Muppet Labs has confirmed a single spring is good enough if you substitute a full size disc for the skinny one deepest in the pack.
Muppet labs......right, Jim Henson ran that lab. I remember reading that test, Kermit was the test pilot and when miss piggie was on board the clutch slipped. :flag_of_truce:
Couldnt help myself, friday night shenanigans :drinks:
Quote from: FJscott on March 27, 2015, 08:16:35 PM
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 27, 2015, 07:00:02 PM
The slipping clutch is real and not a myth.
It all depends on how much weight you put on the FJ's back.
The latest testing by Muppet Labs has confirmed a single spring is good enough if you substitute a full size disc for the skinny one deepest in the pack.
Muppet labs......right, Jim Henson ran that lab. I remember reading that test, Kermit was the test pilot and when miss piggie was on board the clutch slipped. :flag_of_truce:
Couldnt help myself, friday night shenanigans :drinks:
you got it.
Quote from: Mark Olson on March 27, 2015, 07:00:02 PM
The slipping clutch is real and not a myth.
It is most definitely real... My first FJ had 8,800 miles on it when I bought it. Took it to RPM Randy when he was first getting into FJs (knew the engines already)... uni pods, clean carbs, and the 4 degree timing advance took me into the slipping clutch a zone on the first test ride just when the Kook kicked in (I weigh about 175#). Mentioned it after test ride and we put the second spring in. Problem solved.
When I built Wizard I was a little worried... Lots more power, I ride 2 up (over 300#) most of the time, and I'm known to open the f'ing thing up frequently... so I went straight to double springs and was ready for a spring type clutch if needed. Never had an issue to date. That beast pulls power wheelies at 60mph in 3rd routinely and I've had no issues with clutch slipping with north of 160Hp at the rear wheel.
I really don't understand why some want to so vehemently argue it isn't needed. It works... do it if you need it. Beats the crap out of a slipping clutch that's going to just get worse. If you don't need it, don't do it. Simple...
Frank
Leon's quote is the best:
"You will never find your kookaloo with a shitty clutch..."
On my 1350 (not as extreme as Frank's) i have the full fiber plate conversion and I enjoy the FJR 14mm m/c with the APE coil spring conversion kit using the heavy green coils.
I think the key to comfort is the smaller piston in the FJR m/c and the key to absence of slip is the heavier clamping force of the coil springs and the added fiber in the diet.
Yes, with the attrition of time, clutch slippage is real....deal with it.
Quote from: Flynt on March 27, 2015, 11:09:00 PM
I really don't understand why some want to so vehemently argue it isn't needed. It works... do it if you need it. Beats the crap out of a slipping clutch that's going to just get worse. If you don't need it, don't do it. Simple...
Frank
I'm sensing frustration which is puzzling. I don't want the double clutch mod because my left hand is not in great shape. I accept that there
can be a problem with the slipping clutch, there is no argument from me, I just want a lighter clutch pull. Maybe this is more about riding styles? I don't ride full throttle that much, preferring to open it up occasionally. Maybe that is a factor, but hey, who cares really aside from me..?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 28, 2015, 01:33:04 AM
Yes, with the attrition of time, clutch slippage is real....deal with it.
What you're really saying is, if I don't do it your way then you're not interested in talking about it. Fair enough..
Quote from: mark1969 on March 28, 2015, 06:10:40 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 28, 2015, 01:33:04 AM
Yes, with the attrition of time, clutch slippage is real....deal with it.
What you're really saying is, if I don't do it your way then you're not interested in talking about it. Fair enough..
No I think Pat is just saying in time all clutches will slip. Its a wear item that needs attension at some point. Most FJ's out there run a stock spring with no problem but after 20 or 30 years of constant use they do get weak. I have a single oem Yamaha FJR spring installed and it works excellent. Has a nice show room type pull. Not hard at all. I did try the double spring and didn't like it at all for normal riding around town. I to have weaker fingers I guess. My engine is basically stock. This is a nice read on some testing of spring rates along with some general clutch information. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0). As a note I did change out the narrow clutch disk and removed the thin wire but that has nothing to do with the pulling force on the lever.
George
Quote from: mark1969 on March 28, 2015, 06:10:40 AM
What you're really saying is, if I don't do it your way then you're not interested in talking about it. Fair enough..
I tried to fairly discuss the different clutch options here: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0)
With consultations from very knowledgeable FJ owners and mechanics, I wrote the above post because I was tired of talking about it....
I suspect we all we all were.
The same questions, over and over, ad naseum
Hey Mark1969,
Sounds like you got a plan to put new steels and fibers in with a single clutch spring . You also have a zzr master for an easy pull ..
So you are gonna remove the double spring and see if it works ok for you.
From the way you describe your preferred riding style , mainly low rpm with an occasional blast here and there you should be just fine.
please report back on how it worked out.
thanks.
MarkO.
Thanks Mark, I will report my experience with the new clutch when all is fitted and road tested. :good2: