Yes, I finally did it I finally got balls enough to take my new to me 84FJ into " the zone" in top gear. Goin along about 65 I dropped down to 4th and pinned it! Whoopee!!! 8k and beyond, shifted to 5th past 10k and yes, I automatically yelled KOOKAF-NLOO!!! Then I realized how fast I was going, so I backed her down, rode back home and popped open a cold one, I couldn't stop grinning the rest of the evening. Now I can go back to riding like a sane man again...I hope. ... I don't condone speeding, I just had to check it out for myself! Kookaloo everyone! Charley.
That sounds awesome!
"My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about.
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law.
And on Sundays I elude the Eyes,
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits.
Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline.
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine.
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty-odd years.
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream.
I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car:
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time.
We fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar.
Tires spitting gravel,
I commit my weekly crime.
Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge...
Well-weathered leather,
Hot metal and oil,
The scented country air.
Sunlight on chrome,
The blur of the landscape,
Every nerve aware.
Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide.
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase.
Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man.
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan.
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside.
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the fireside." --Rush - Red Barchetta--
But it could easily be "Red FJ, actually in my case Red and white with a navy blue stripe."
I always try and keep in mind what good old Clint said, "a man's got to know his limitations." Before I get it on, I always know where I'm at, ie., weather conditions; road surface conditions; location of turns, on ramps and aerial traffic, (johnny is sneaky), all so as to anticipate potentiality five or more errors deep, and I always ensure that if something does go wrong, it's only me and maybe a gopher, or some other animal found in the boons that will get taken out if I fail to know my limitations. Not to sound preachy, I'm just covering my tracks, a disclaimer if you will, because one never knows for sure, how their words are taken.
FJ Forever! :drinks:
JoBrCo
Nice!!! Have you ever read any of Neil Pearts books about his travels aboard his BMWs ? A brilliant man and writer of Lyrics an literature for sure! And yes be carefull what you talk to others about... but everyone with an FJ who goes there knows that feeling... that Rush...(pun intended) kind of like W.F.O. on a 490 Maico!!! same feeling. My only trouble with my Kookaloo experience was I couldn't get her into 6th gear! :lol: Charley.
Quote from: charleygofast on July 27, 2014, 11:53:18 AM
Nice!!! Have you ever read any of Neil Pearts books about his travels aboard his BMWs ? A brilliant man and writer of Lyrics an literature for sure! And yes be carefull what you talk to others about... but everyone with an FJ who goes there knows that feeling... that Rush...(pun intended) kind of like W.F.O. on a 490 Maico!!! same feeling. My only trouble with my Kookaloo experience was I couldn't get her into 6th gear! :lol: Charley.
Never read any of his books, yet! But I know of his journey on that BMW and bicycles too. Unfortunately I know why he took that journey down through the Americas, and how my soul cried out for him, first his daughter, then his wife, I know he was in pain, just glad he made it back from the trip, finding a new love, something to live for.
If only it had a 6th, huh? Super Kookaloooooooooooooo!
Here's to that Canadian, consummate rocker and fellow rider. :drinks:
"Straining the limits of machine and man." -Peart-
Quote from: charleygofast on July 27, 2014, 10:43:18 AM
Yes, I finally did it I finally got balls enough to take my new to me 84FJ into " the zone" in top gear.
What was the speedo reading (if you took your eyes off the road long enough to take a peek) ?
I'm wondering what things are like over 130.
Smooth as glass. On a Arizona hwy (north of Why) I had my '84 pinned in 5th for a long count of 30...
17/38 gearing running at 9500 rpm hunkered down behind the windscreen, chin bar resting on the tank, the bike squatted low, no front end lift at all, nice and steady. She was singing her kookaloo song. She was happy.
The speedo was wiggling between 150 and 160 so no telling how fast I was going but she felt just fine.
First post in a long time that really made me smile. That's what this bike is all about. :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:
Glad to see you are still young at heart. :yahoo: Dave
My speedo is 5mph off at 60 and I've got stock 17/42 gearing and 16" wheels. Speedo was 140 plus and I backed down. Lots of Law on the highway. But if there werent......kooka-fn-loo! To good times! Charley. :drinks:
at century plus speed my speedo bounces way too much to even bother with. my good ole Gps mounted on the bars is a much better substitute. My last really really speed run was on the 395 going north -- GPS at 137 with saddle bags and rear tail and all moved smoothly through the desert air.
I have no issues with the FJ at speed --- it does everything well at least a 7 to 8 but when it comes to the high speed runs I rate it a 10 plus. Truth be told 150 is my limit so buying a Busa or zx14 would be a waste as I am not going past that mark but it is good for the soul to venture into speed land once in awhile.
The boys will tell you I am quick to full throttle it when the time is right --- couldn't get any of the Lambos to run the 210 with me on our last ride but it was fun playing. ( note they can't use all of their power either so -- fair race) kookaloo
OH ya -- as far as the 6th gear -- many of times I keep looking and its never there---- But when I ride my 84 gpz900 all of sudden its there and when I get into it I do think of the WOW I would get from an FJ with Overdrive---
I *NEVER* speed, and none of my bikes have *EVER* been past the posted speed limit! :yes:
Quote from: moparman70 on August 15, 2014, 09:20:08 PM
...think of the WOW I would get from an FJ with Overdrive---
NOW you've got me thinkin'...
The Triumph Spitfire transmission in my MG has an option for an electric overdrive unit that's highly coveted. It consists of a planetary gear unit on the output shaft, actuated electrically via a switch on the gearshift.
I wonder... Something like that incorporated into the hub of the rear wheel? Still driven by the chain and sprocket, but slightly multiplied, "on demand" within the hub?
Hmmmm.....
Steve
Maybe after Randy perfects the injection system he can work on the overdrive..
+1...I would be happy with a taller 5th gear
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on August 15, 2014, 09:57:52 PM
NOW you've got me thinkin'...
The Triumph Spitfire transmission in my MG has an option for an electric overdrive unit that's highly coveted. It consists of a planetary gear unit on the output shaft, actuated electrically via a switch on the gearshift.
I wonder... Something like that incorporated into the hub of the rear wheel? Still driven by the chain and sprocket, but slightly multiplied, "on demand" within the hub?
Hmmmm.....
Steve
So, why _NOT_ this concept for motorcycles? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear/url]
Is the input torque too high for the gears?
Sure would be an interesting, possibly bolt-on mod for ANY sport-touring bike. Seems like any reduction in RPM, especially at sustained cruising speed would be a plus.
Steve
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on August 16, 2014, 10:03:05 PM
Quote from: Steve_in_Florida on August 15, 2014, 09:57:52 PM
NOW you've got me thinkin'...
The Triumph Spitfire transmission in my MG has an option for an electric overdrive unit that's highly coveted. It consists of a planetary gear unit on the output shaft, actuated electrically via a switch on the gearshift.
I wonder... Something like that incorporated into the hub of the rear wheel? Still driven by the chain and sprocket, but slightly multiplied, "on demand" within the hub?
Hmmmm.....
Steve
So, why _NOT_ this concept for motorcycles? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear/url]
Is the input torque too high for the gears?
Sure would be an interesting, possibly bolt-on mod for ANY sport-touring bike. Seems like any reduction in RPM, especially at sustained cruising speed would be a plus.
Steve
Steve, I have habit of replying to people who ask "I wonder if it's possible to ........" (and I cut them off before they even get to the question and say) "yes, of course it is, it's only a matter of time and money" However, I think in this case I would have to retract that. Not so much because it's impossible but because it's impractical and the need isn't that great.
I had actually given passing thought to this some time back, for about a nano second, before the impracticality of doing so became obvious. Not for me though, I don't have a problem with the revs my bike sits on at cruising or even high speeds but because it is the sort of project that interests me, like my power assisted clutch for an arthritic rider I'm working on (or for non arthritic FJ riders who want to run 3 or even 4 clutch springs)
I am familiar with overdrive units and in principle anything with enough bits in it to do the job and withstand the power and the weight is going to too big and too heavy and anything mounted at the wheel is going to double your unsprung weight which will do horrible things to your handling.
Yes, I have roughly thought of ways it could be done at the engine end but keeping in mind the small gain, the cost and the engineering make it not even worth thinking about.
While the concept in the link you posted is interesting, the push bike size hub weighs 8lbs. Imagine the weight of one for the FJ. Also many of these sort of drives ( I have no idea about this one in particular) do no lend themselves to being scaled up.
The bottom line remains the weight, the bulk, the time and the cost balanced against the gain.
What I devoted slightly more thought to was transplanting a six speed box from something else in to the crankcase!!
Our bikes are not Harleys, I actually like the sound of mine when it gets to about 5000+ cruising. It sort of develops a pitch and sounds very happy, or maybe that's just me that's happy when cruising at 5000+
The fuel injection Randy is working on is an entirely different proposition. While there are plenty of bugs to iron out it's not a mammoth engineering challenge, the system is largely off the shelf, the cost is not great and the outcome will deliver significant advantages.
We are fortuneate in Australia still having unadulterated fuel. Carbies here are pretty much set and forget and maybe service every 100,000km's and fuel injection does not have the same appeal as it would in the US.
Now, if Randy wants to sell stuff here maybe his next project could be an electronic kangaroo repellent/deflector.
Noel
Speaking of drive train modifications....
The new Gates carbon fiber technology applied to belts means that belts can now be narrower, more flexable (tighter wrap, smaller sprockets) and carry higher loads...
How about a belt drive conversion for the FJ? Lighter, quieter, no maintenance, set it and forget it....
Unless you really like lubing your chain...
Quote from: ribbert on August 17, 2014, 12:43:48 AM
...Not so much because it's impossible but because it's impractical and the need isn't that great.
Noel,
Yeah, I figured as much. I was just mulling over some ideas that were flying through my head last night, and wanted to throw them out here for discussion. How often I read "I keep looking for 6th gear"...
Yes, a 6-speed transplant might be interesting, too. So would a cell-phone proximity jammer. And a Stupidity/Idiot detector. And LASER BEAMS!!!
I digress...
:hi:
Steve
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 17, 2014, 01:06:32 AM
Speaking of drive train modifications....
The new Gates carbon fiber technology applied to belts means that belts can now be narrower, more flexable (tighter wrap, smaller sprockets) and carry higher loads...
How about a belt drive conversion for the FJ? Lighter, quieter, no maintenance, set it and forget it....
Unless you really like lubing your chain...
I looked at this mod, briefly. what I found was Yamaha models that were belt driven so the rear sprocket would bolt on to our sprocket carrier all had WAAY too short of final drive ratio. the belt drive sprockets are huge. would be a cool FJ Streetfighter mod, or the first ever FJ Stunt Bike...hmmm
Scott
Yah I've got a belt drive on my chopper. One of the narrow, supposedly supper strong. If I whack the throttle open too fast snap. It shoots it about 60'. My chopper has a big engine 120 HP 120 ft lbs. If I roll on the throttle it'll smoke the tire. But I have to be careful not to be too abrupt. Those belts are expensive last one I bought was a while ago. Was $220 if I remember right. Broke 2 right away. Thought the first one must have been defective. Third one was an accident.
Quote from: moparman70 on August 15, 2014, 10:57:25 PM
Maybe after Randy perfects the injection system he can work on the overdrive..
Well, I can't help with an overdrive (nor 6th) per say, but who would be interested in setting up their transmission with a wider gear spread than a Suzuki Hayabusa (which has six speeds) and still keep the spacing between gears well suited to the FJ?
(popcorn)
Quote from: FJscott on August 16, 2014, 08:17:07 AM
+1...I would be happy with a taller 5th gear
Me too - big time - and that is the simplist OD option.
Wonder if Randy could get a set of final gear cogs cut with one more tooth on the input cog and 2 less on the output cog.
My guess is that the stock bike is geared for max top speed and a taller 5th would probably lose a few MPH on top, but would be vastly better in 90% of cruising situations..
Change your sprockets. The FJ will pull it easily.
At times I had the same thoughts..... A 6th gear would be great. Once I went to the 18t/38t sprocket set up a 6th gear is no longer a thought.
Fred
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on August 20, 2014, 10:07:06 PM
Change your sprockets. The FJ will pull it easily.
I've got the sprockets where I want them for the first 4 gears. A real tall OD 5th would make it perfect for me.
Quote from: Burns on August 22, 2014, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on August 20, 2014, 10:07:06 PM
Change your sprockets. The FJ will pull it easily.
I've got the sprockets where I want them for the first 4 gears. A real tall OD 5th would make it perfect for me.
+1 I think a taller 5th is the best solution to not having a 6th gear. I like my gearing 1st - 4th and don't want to mess that up
If I had a spare transmission laying around I would definitely pursue that option. there might already be a Yamaha gear out there that would work. when I looked into a viable belt drive for our FJ's I was looking at Yamaha cruisers for compatibility. what I found was the diameters of the belt sprockets were much greater in diameter. To make these work the ratios inside the gearbox have to be taller to compensate for that low final drive ratio....Hmmmmm :mail1:
Scott
Running 18 and 42 now and still looking for 6th gear. Have a 40t I am going to install when I change rear tire. I think that might solve my 6th searches or will go to 38 like Fred. Dave
I'm 18/40 and find myself double checking top cog on a pretty regular basis.
Quote from: aviationfred on August 20, 2014, 10:56:42 PM
At times I had the same thoughts..... A 6th gear would be great. Once I went to the 18t/38t sprocket set up a 6th gear is no longer a thought.
Fred
Even if you could swap out the entire 6 speed transmission from a Busa, you wouldn't really be happy with it ...
While 6th gear on a Busa is 7% taller than 5th gear on the FJ....BUT 1st gear on a Busa is 9% taller than 1st in the FJ...
So the FJ actually had a wider span of gears with its 5 speed transmission than a Busa does with 6.
Gear it for what you want on top and first will take care of itself :good2:
Quote from: fj1289 on August 22, 2014, 06:23:50 PM
Even if you could swap out the entire 6 speed transmission from a Busa, you wouldn't really be happy with it ...
Gear it for what you want on top and first will take care of itself :good2:
Chris, you stole my thunder...
I was going to ask, why does everyone keep wanting "6th" gear...
The 6th gear tooth count & ratio for the busa is; 24/23 (1.043:1)
for the FJ it is; 29/26 (1.115:1)
So, all one can hope for with a "6th" gear is overdrive, but there is not enough room in the case for additional gears.
Like just stated if you want to slow the engine down fro cruise efficiency then the larger 18T front sprocket and the smallest rear sprocket you can fit is what you are looking for.
Randy - RPM
My bike really loves 3800rpm and up. And right now thats about 65mph with 17/42 final and 16" wheels. I do plan on going to a 40 rear sprocket just to slow her down for distance and gas mileage. But I'll probably find myself going faster to get into that sweet zone where she hits it (3800 and up) I do think stockish gearing with an overdrive would be sweet, like older Volvos had with an electronic o/d and switch on the gearshift knob. Charley. :good:
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 22, 2014, 06:35:54 PM
I was going to ask, why does everyone keep wanting "6th" gear...
Randy - RPM
Exactly!
The other one that appears here regularly that I don't get is "I keep going for the next/6th gear"
Just how long does it take to get used to your own bike? Not that you should need to, but a quick look at the tacho will confirm that you're already in top.
I don't have an issue with the gearing on mine (18/41) but then I don't do a lot of constant speed riding either. On the odd occasion that I do, I don't mind the constant high cruising revs. I suppose it depends a lot on how and where you ride.
Noel
The FJ wasn't designed to be a cruiser. It is more efficient and smoother at higher RPM's. At least that's how I see it. I ran 18/38 combo and went back lower to 17/38 and am happier with the bike all around.
George
Quote from: movenon on August 22, 2014, 08:58:08 PM
The FJ wasn't designed to be a cruiser. It is more efficient and smoother at higher RPM's. At least that's how I see it. I ran 18/38 combo and went back lower to 17/38 and am happier with the bike all around.
George
George, you are spot on, the FJ motors definitely get sweeter from about 4000+
Noel
If you could get a 6th gear, then you'd just be searching for 7th.
That's what I do on my FZ1
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 22, 2014, 06:35:54 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on August 22, 2014, 06:23:50 PM
Even if you could swap out the entire 6 speed transmission from a Busa, you wouldn't really be happy with it ...
Gear it for what you want on top and first will take care of itself :good2:
Chris, you stole my thunder...
I was going to ask, why does everyone keep wanting "6th" gear...
The 6th gear tooth count & ratio for the busa is; 24/23 (1.043:1)
for the FJ it is; 29/26 (1.115:1)
So, all one can hope for with a "6th" gear is overdrive, but there is not enough room in the case for additional gears.
Like just stated if you want to slow the engine down fro cruise efficiency then the larger 18T front sprocket and the smallest rear sprocket you can fit is what you are looking for.
Randy - RPM
it really doesn't matter "why does everyone keep wanting "6th" gear..." if they do, they do.
The ride experience is subjective and tastes vary.
For every tooth up on the counter or down on the rear there is less "snap" everywhere in the rev range.
The bike is buzzy in the 65 to 75 mph range in 5th with the sprockets that I've ridden. That is the speed range where you spend most of your 2-lane time.
Are you and others suggesting folks should drop into 4th in that neighborhood to get the motor happy?
Well, to each his own, but that would not be my personal riding style.
Some (me e.g.) would like to keep as much "snap" as we can and still smooth things out a bit at 2-lane highway cruising speed; we don't plan to require the torque needed at the rear wheel in 5th to exceed 140 mph or so. If there is a mileage improvement with the taller gearing - yahoo! that's a bonus.
The bottom line here is that riders want the ride that they want and there is no scripture to quote on the subject nor moral authority to chide riders whose tastes do not mirror your own.
With all due respect.
Add me to the list of those that was a 6 speed.
I remember reading somewhere about a direct bolt in from some other model - anyone remember that?
It's not just the 6th gear, it all of them, properly spaced.
Have you ever heard a rider with a six speed tranny say" damn, wish it only had five gears"?
Quote from: FJscott on August 23, 2014, 08:28:33 AM
Have you ever heard a rider with a six speed tranny say" damn, wish it only had five gears"?
No, but a lot of guys short shift through them, particularly with a torquey motor. I even do that on the 5 speed more often than not.
Porsche at one stage went from a 4 speed back to a 3 speed box in the 911's when the motors were powerful enough not to need the extra ratio, and they were faster.
Noel
I short shift and double shift my FJ's all the time. The bike seems happiest pulling a bit of load.
For me the spacing of the bottom 4 is fine.
With a tall 5th you could add some teeth to the rear and make the bike quicker if you wanted too, not overdoing it to the point of defeating your original purpose of course.
Replacing the entire transmission is rather extreme, 2 each and all that.
As far as that goes, I personally would not open up the motor just to change the top cogs but would put those parts in at rebuild time if they were available. Someone suggested that there might even be such things in other Yam transmissions.
There's a research project for ya.
Quote from: Burns on August 23, 2014, 02:12:46 AM
The bottom line here is that riders want the ride that they want and there is no scripture to quote on the subject nor moral authority to chide riders whose tastes do not mirror your own.
I am sorry you feel that I have chided you, it was merely a question to the topic not directly to you specifically.
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 22, 2014, 06:35:54 PM
...why does everyone keep wanting "6th" gear...
Randy - RPM
That was followed by the gearing information of the two transmissions indicating the transmission final drive ratios.
Everyone compares the want or desire of 6th gear to the busa so based on the gear ratio of the busa, there is not a benefit that can be obtained other than a closer split of the mid gear ratios.
I am not sure how you found my question to be preaching or for that matter on a moral level, but you did...
Quote from: Burns on August 23, 2014, 02:12:46 AM
The ride readers experience is subjective and tastes vary.
Quote from: Burns on August 23, 2014, 02:12:46 AM
The bike is buzzy in the 65 to 75 mph range in 5th with the sprockets that I've ridden. That is the speed range where you spend most of your 2-lane time.
Are you and others suggesting folks should drop into 4th in that neighborhood to get the motor happy?
No, that is not my recommendation to eliminate buzzing vibrations at highway speed.
I recommend maintenance of the motor mounts, properly built, jetted and functioning carbs, carbs synchronization at higher rpm range than idle, proper tune up, timing plate advance modification, proper chain maintenance with free moving links, better handle bar grips, RPM Vibrantators, rubber mounted foot peg upgrade on the early model bikes, lower frame rails tight and no broken bolts and insure there are no cracks in the frame.
I fully enjoy all of my FJ's vibration free at highway speed due to many if not all of the above recommendations.
In fact the FJ I rode in Australia was a vibrating machine. I was unable to service the motor mounts or sync the carbs before we had to start off on the journey. I did install foam grips and RPM Vibranators which eliminated the vibrations in the handlebars, but I could really feel it in the foot pegs.
So, the same statement or question that has been asked multiple times over the years since this forum was founded seems to be different for each and every rider. Some guys want it for higher top speed as they felt they needed to shift because the wanted to go faster or for others to slow the engine down in the quest for better cruising mileage and your reasoning;
Quote from: Burns on August 23, 2014, 02:12:46 AM
Some (me e.g.) would like to keep as much "snap" as we can and still smooth things out a bit at 2-lane highway cruising speed; we don't plan to require the torque needed at the rear wheel in 5th to exceed 140 mph or so. If there is a mileage improvement with the taller gearing - yahoo! that's a bonus.
Sure, by slowing the engine RPM's down via sprocket changes, you lose the "snap" and the drop of a gear brings it right back as the engine is now back closer to or within the power band instead of down at the lower RPM range where the engine is basically lugging when asked to accelerate.
As far as my "taste" is concerned for this, I use what Yamaha provided to obtain the best performance I can obtain. This past week, with my 93' running up towards the red line in the twisties and I still got 39 MPG on the highway to & fro with 18/38 sprockets. I think Yamaha came up with a good all around package that if someone wants to tweak with sprocket changes they still keep the engine in the preferred operating range.
Quote from: Burns on August 20, 2014, 06:58:10 PM
Wonder if Randy could get a set of final gear cogs cut with one more tooth on the input cog and 2 less on the output cog.
No, I will not be investing any time or money for different gear ratios for the FJ since I am investing my time & monies elsewhere to improve the FJ.
I can tell you that since I have been riding the 86' with the development RPM EFI system, there is all kinds of "snap". Now when I ride my carbed FJ's they are very "sluggish" as there is the time that the throttle opens before the fuel in drawn from the emulsion tube as there is no acceleration pump.
Randy - RPM
Is this horse dead yet? let me shoot it one more time. everyone in this conversation makes good, valid arguments supporting their position. For me, I would prefer a 6th gear or taller 5th. that being said, I would rather be riding my bikes than splitting the cases to install it. would it be nice? yes. doesn't make me wrong or right, just my position.
My Ninja1000 is a 6 speed. I don't feel the need to shortshift nor do I search for 7th
Scott
Quote from: FJscott on August 23, 2014, 02:24:26 PM
Is this horse dead yet? let me shoot it one more time.
Scott
FTFY...
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/big-machine-gun.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
Randy - RPM
The Japs aren't stupid, if they thought the FJ needed an extra gear don't you think they would've added one. The FJ will cover the quarter mile in 11sec and top 240kmh/150 mph, which in the era it was made was top performance and still respectable in this day and age. Personally I think the ratios are spot on with the standard gearing, I think it's the torque of the motor giving some people the impression it's under geared, but if you want higher or lower, just change your sprockets.
Wow - didn't think I'd hurt anyone's feelings - just wanted to point out that six speed tansmissions don't necessarily offer any advantages over what we already have!
But I guess we can always pretend it will be better than reality...
"...these go to ELEVEN!"
Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
Spinal Tap - "These go to eleven...." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc#ws)
The valuable point made by Mr. RPM is that a properly set up FJ won't buzz at highway speed. That moots out the taller 5th gear issue for me. If indeed the FJ can be rendered buzzless there is no need to "patch" a symptom that can be cured. I would certainly exhaust that avenue before I peeked into the FJ's innards.
Subtilties are lost in this type of forum and personal attribution for generic comments is common. I'm not offended by what I took to be generic chiding and did not take it as a personal affront.
I'll leave it at this: if the shoe fits wear it.
Quote from: fj1289 on August 24, 2014, 12:32:40 AM
But I guess we can always pretend it will be better than reality...
Yea, we can always go pay golf :).... For some, the comment is an American related joke... :good2:
George
Back to the FJ. Mine runs real smooth at 4500 - 6000 RPM. Not that bad below that but the sweet spot is at higher RPM (mid range).
No worries -- everyone has their own idea of the perfect bike and perfect mods (or even none). :drinks:
I'm truly sorry this went the direction it did. If you read my original post, it was just a story about me taking my bike to the "Kookaloo-zone" for the first time and diggin it! My comment to JoBrCo about "looking for 6th gear",was only meant as "goi'n fast humor"...nothing more! I'm actually pretty happy with the 5 gears and final gearing my bike has. If all of you were here right now we'd tip a few cold ones and have a good laugh over this! Charley.
I don't think you have anything to be sorry about ! Just conversation around the campfire. :drinks:
George
Quote from: charleygofast on August 24, 2014, 08:14:59 PM
I'm truly sorry this went the direction it did. If you read my original post, it was just a story about me taking my bike to the "Kookaloo-zone" for the first time and diggin it! My comment to JoBrCo about "looking for 6th gear",was only meant as "goi'n fast humor"...nothing more! I'm actually pretty happy with the 5 gears and final gearing my bike has. If all of you were here right now we'd tip a few cold ones and have a good laugh over this! Charley.
Yep, we just have to hug it out over some frosty mugs.....until the next oil or ethanol debate....doh! :flag_of_truce:
Scott :drinks:
Quote from: movenon on August 24, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
I don't think you have anything to be sorry about ! Just conversation around the campfire. :drinks:
George
All it's meant to be George...Kookaloo to you, and cheers! :drinks: Charley
Quote from: FJscott on August 24, 2014, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: charleygofast on August 24, 2014, 08:14:59 PM
I'm truly sorry this went the direction it did. If you read my original post, it was just a story about me taking my bike to the "Kookaloo-zone" for the first time and diggin it! My comment to JoBrCo about "looking for 6th gear",was only meant as "goi'n fast humor"...nothing more! I'm actually pretty happy with the 5 gears and final gearing my bike has. If all of you were here right now we'd tip a few cold ones and have a good laugh over this! Charley.
Yep, we just have to hug it out over some frosty mugs.....until the next oil or ethanol debate....doh! :flag_of_truce:
Scott :drinks:
I know, right?!!! (popcorn) (popcorn) :drinks:
Quote from: movenon on August 24, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
I don't think you have anything to be sorry about ! Just conversation around the campfire. :drinks:
George
Ditto
If everybody agreed on everything there would be nothing to talk about.
Quote from: Burns on August 25, 2014, 01:14:11 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 24, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
I don't think you have anything to be sorry about ! Just conversation around the campfire. :drinks:
George
Ditto
If everybody agreed on everything there would be nothing to talk about.
I can't really agree with you there..... :rofl2:
Now about that 6th gear..... my bike is smooth and happy throughout its rev range. I like riding a lower gear when sporting the bike. That said, I tour a lot and when I am doing long miles at 80mph or greater I often times reach for another gear. It would be so nice to drop from the 4500-5000rpm range to the 3700-4200 rpm range for long hauls at speed. Wouldn't this also improve mileage?
Cheers- tim
As Noel pointed out...You would think that after 30 years of riding the same bike, I would know what gear I'm in....occasionally I still reach for sixth. :wacko1:
Same Pat, same. :yes:
Agree!!! I think a gear indicator might be nice, but I bet I would still be checking to see if I'm in top gear. Just a habit I guess :good: Charley.
Funny thing is that an r1 6th gear ratio is about the same as the fj's 5th and they also hang at 4000 rpm doing 100 km/h. So it must be the vibes causing us to want another gear and i agree sitting at 3500 is much more pleasant.
Quote from: Fj.itis on August 26, 2014, 07:48:03 AM
Funny thing is that an r1 6th gear ratio is about the same as the fj's 5th and they also hang at 4000 rpm doing 100 km/h. So it must be the vibes causing us to want another gear and i agree sitting at 3500 is much more pleasant.
You're right, a six speed box in itself offers no benefit unless top gear is higher.
If may be so presumptuous as to think I know what people mean, without incurring Franks wrath, when they say they want a 6th gear, is that they want a higher top gear, whether it's on a 4,5,6 or 7 speed box isn't the point. As has been pointed out, many of the 6 speeders out there have much the same top gear as the FJ.
When BMW went from a 5 to a 6 speed box on their enormously grunty 1200 boxer twins, it was not universally welcomed and seen by many as unnecessary on a motor that has bucket loads of torque, a wide power band and is not a moto GP bike. It made the upper gears annoyingly close together. They also pull similar revs to the FJ at cruising speeds in top.
Yes it would be nice it snick up another gear or flick a switch and drop 600-700 revs on the highway if the road or the mood took you but I don't think it's going to happen.
I actually prefer the sound of my engine cruising at 5000+ rather than loping along at say 3 and a bit.
It's entirely personal though.
Try getting a pilot to relax or enjoy the sound of a Rotax when he's flown Lycomings at just under 2500rpm all his life.
Interestingly, one of our highly respected, experienced, knowledgeable multi bike owning members here once rode his FJ a
very long way on the open road in 4th!
Noel
Quote from: Fj.itis on August 26, 2014, 07:48:03 AM
Funny thing is that an r1 6th gear ratio is about the same as the fj's 5th and they also hang at 4000 rpm doing 100 km/h. So it must be the vibes causing us to want another gear and i agree sitting at 3500 is much more pleasant.
With 17/39 gearing mine sits at 110 kmh/70mph at 4000 rpm, smooth as glass and with instant acceleration. If I did a lot of touring or our roads had a higher speed limit than 110 kmh then maybe I might look at a change in ratios, but at the moment standard is just fine.
Can anyone tell me if this bike gets to 5th in the 1/4 mile with stock/near stock gearing?
My guess is no.
If that is the case, with a taller 5th the bike would would still cut the e.t.'s of a stocker.
Yamaha sent this bike into the world with a very heavy bias for a top speed that most riders will rarely, and only occassionally use.
It was the gentleman racer of its day but now that examples are available at give-away prices it strikes me that there is a market for mods suited to riders with a more utalitarian application than that of the speed-deanons that were its original target market.
I think it is entirely possible to reach targets of 60mpg cruising at 80 mph; a 135+ mph top speed with a low 12 sec e.t. and have ample luggage capacity, good wind protection and better than stock handeling and stopping.
Maybe Yamaha didn't intend for this to be a tourer but I reckon it could be a great one.
A taller 5th gear would certainly make a contribution to such a package.
I have two motors ....
ooh wow, guess ill throw my hat into the ring, the drags question I can answer fairly accurately I think.
with 17/38 gearing, there was no need to pull top gear at the drags, unless you were making more power at lower rpm, which mine was at the time I think, so I did generally pull top gear, but I could go over the line at about 9k in 4th.
the drags is mostly about 1st gear, and top end power, as in, the sooner you can get out of first gear, the quicker your time should be, keeping in mind that you still want 500rpm in reserve when you cross the line, just in case you suddenly start making more power, this avoids you pinging the limiter for too long at the top of the track, which stops you accelerating.
so I used a gearing calculator and worked out that my perfectly consistent top speed could be easily reached with 16/46 gearing, leaving me about 1000rpm in reserve for more power, this making a huge difference in my 60 foot times, going from about 2secs down to 1.7secs, combined with a fork strap and some tuning, I went from 11.7 et's to 11.0 et's. more to this story yet to come this southern summer with pods now fitted and tuning being sorted.
in stark contrast to my drag gearing, I've been using 20/37 sprockets on the road, giving me 116kmh @ 3500rpm, I use dedicated chains for each sprocket set, providing I get can get one made, ill go for a 21t front with my next set of road sprockets, because it will pull it no problems, and my road riding style is generally short shifting and chasing economy, other than when I'm scratchin through the twistes, which are few and far between over here, but the long road gearing doesn't effect the scratching anyway, you just use a lower gear in a corner than you would with stock gearing.
but that's what suites me, each to their own, and more power to ya. :good2:
k
Kris, I'm not aware that a 19 or 20 tooth counter shaft sprocket will fit in our cases...
Can you take some pictures for us? Do you leave your cover off?
Are you running a 530 chain?
From this drag racer's experience it is clear that the "stock/near stock gearing" answer is clearly "no".
It seems to me that a tall 5th gives you gearing that provides stock or better accelloration in all real world driving situations ("better" since you can pull shorter sprockets if you want) ("real world driving situations" being up to say 120 mph) with the obvious benefits purchased at the expense of a top speed that many will never use.
So, do the math.
Do you ever go faster than your bike can go in 4th? A few do, most probabaly don't.
Is it worth the expense/is the market cohort big enough to cut a decent ROI and justify development? I leave those questions for those wiser than I in such matters.
But if (big IF) there are existing gears that fit those splines and would give the desired ratio, well I'd buy a set.
Anybody know how to chase that rabbit down?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 01, 2014, 10:59:13 AM
Kris, I'm not aware that a 19 or 20 tooth counter shaft sprocket will fit in our cases...
Can you take some pictures for us? Do you leave your cover off?
Are you running a 530 chain?
it fits in mine, no problems, I'm using an RKxso 530 chain, I don't believe that there are significant differences between the sprocket cover and engine casings between the xjr's and fj's (I may be wrong) except to say that later model xjr's may have a speedo sensor in their covers, and I'm of the impression that the output shaft on fj's is a little different than on xjr's, with the xjr's being extended a little, probably to allow for the wider stock rubber on the rear of them, but the same spline and sprockets are used.
unfortunately I don't actually have a picture with the cover off of my 20t front sprocket fitted, (I have one of the bolt clearance on my 37t rear though, I will endeavour to take a picture of this in the future, ill be changing my gearing in a few months for my upcoming summer drags and ill sort a picture then.
however, if you measure your radial clearance (chain fitted) of your front sprocket, you will get an idea of what will fit, the diameter of any 520,525,530 sprocket increases by about 5mm with every tooth added, so 2.5mm (0.100") radially, so from an 18 to a 20t sprocket, your chain clearance in the area of you countershaft sprocket will reduce by about 5mm.
even with my 20t sprocket, my radial clearance is still at about 10mm, so as far as I'm concerned a 22t sprocket will go in there no problems, however, clearance in the event of a chain failure may be an issue for some.
basically with stock sprockets, if a chain lets go, you will have extra clearance for the chain to find its way out of there, and hopefully not pitch you down the road (no guarantee's though), with the reduction in radial clearance, you could argue that the broken chain may be more likely to get stuck, and pitch you down the road, and/or, do more damage to the engine casing, in such an event.
so the fact, in my case at least, that the 20t countershaft sprocket fits in the area, is perhaps not the only thing to consider.
personally I know the condition, strength, and maintenance, of my road chain is well up to the task, and am prepared to take the risk (if there is one) on my own terms, if anyone were to take on the fitting of a larger sprocket based on my experiences and opinions, they would have to assume the risks of doing so as their own. what I'm prepared to do, I do my way, I wont be held accountable for what others do.
I had 5 x 20t front sprockets made for my bike about 5 or 6 years ago, the USA company that made them said I had to have minimum 5 made or it wasn't worth their while, I'm endeavouring to chase down the company who made them for anyone who is interested, the name is on the tip of my tongue, but I think I still have the receipt with my spare sprockets so I will chase this down.
the 5 sprockets only cost about $150us, I've still got 2 unused ones (and no, at this point I'm keeping the unused ones, but Chris (fj1289, I think) has dibs on a good condition used one, if he still wants it.
I'm not trying to pull your leg you blokes, I'm using these sprockets, if your a little patient, I will to prove it to you.
this mob in oz can make these sprockets, my 37t rear is from them, although I was not 100% happy with the quality of it, they have at times said they will make me custom front sprockets any size I wont, but at other times they have said they wont, but try them if you want, in the meantime I will sort the details of the company that actually made my 20t front sprockets.
http://www.chaingangchainsandsprockets.com.au/ (http://www.chaingangchainsandsprockets.com.au/)
pics are of 37t rear sprocket clearance, and a wider view, and drag gearing fitted, this is what I have atm.
k
found em, this is the mob who made my 20t front sprockets :dance2:
thrust company sprockets, sugar grove, p.a.
http://www.thrustcompany.com/ (http://www.thrustcompany.com/)
k
this avoids you pinging the limiter for too long at the top of the track
Do the FJ1200's have rev limiters or is that a 13 thing?
Quote from: Burns on September 03, 2014, 05:40:08 PM
this avoids you pinging the limiter for too long at the top of the track
Do the FJ1200's have rev limiters or is that a 13 thing?
not 100% sure Burny, my guess would be if you've got an electronic ignition it will be rev limited (such as my xjr, which is at about 9500rpm, or redline, from what I can tell), but I think the 11's had points, but other than what my bike does, I don't know.
easy way to find out, pull it to the stop and see what happens, if its not breaking down by about 11 grand id say its unlimited, but if its anything like mine, it becomes quite obvious that its limited at about 9.5k.
the legends can use a specific control dyna ignition system which lifts the limit a bit I think, or with a dyna 2000 you can set your own limit's, but that's a ways down the track for me at least, ill see what I can do with the stock ignition first.
k.
I guess valve float would limit it at some point but I'm not THAT curious.
Seems like I recall that when the 'busa came out the Japs agreed to rev limit all bikes to keep top speed at 190 or so (40mph North of FJ1200 territory).
Kris, that is one bitchen XJR you have... :good:
Thanks for the info on the 20t sprockets. I didn't mean to imply that I disbelieved you, I was just not aware that you could fit that large of a drive sprocket in our cases.
Re: Rev limiter, I think Randy or Bob W could comment on this. They have extensive racing experience.
I have not detected a ignition limiter on my bikes (doesn't mean that there isn't one) I've had them up above 10k and have not felt a studder.
I do have upgraded valve springs so valve float does not seem a problem.
We are of course, talking about the stock ignition. The Dyna ignitions have a programmable limiter.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 04, 2014, 11:53:50 AM
Kris, that is one bitchen XJR you have... :good:
Thanks for the info on the 20t sprockets. I didn't mean to imply that I disbelieved you, I was just not aware that you could fit that large of a drive sprocket in our cases.
Re: Rev limiter, I think Randy or Bob W could comment on this. They have extensive racing experience.
I have not detected a ignition limiter on my bikes (doesn't mean that there isn't one) I've had them up above 10k and have not felt a studder.
I do have upgraded valve springs so valve float does not seem a problem.
We are of course, talking about the stock ignition. The Dyna ignitions have a programmable limiter.
cheers Pat, the old girl is actually pretty stock, particularly from a major components perspective, cycle parts stock, sundries like gearing and brake lines aside, and the engine internally is as it left the factory, save for valve clearance blueprinting, and an extra spring in the clutch, but I do like to play.
just to remove some doubt about the existence of 20t sprockets, some pics, I will show installed pics at later date.
in terms of fitting there is one caveat that I haven't looked into, my sprocket cover has some bits missing after I lost a chain a number of years ago, cant be seen externally but at the point where it curves around the oil filter housing I've lost some chunks of material, if a stock item means that a 20t wont fit I don't know, I have an undamaged one I intend to fit after returning to street gearing after this summers drags, ill look into if this affects the clearance at this point, and get some fitted pics for ya's.
k.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 25, 2014, 07:26:22 PM
As Noel pointed out...You would think that after 30 years of riding the same bike, I would know what gear I'm in....occasionally I still reach for sixth. :wacko1:
I agree with that... I occasionally try to grab for 6th as a joke to myself... I laugh about it when I do it too....
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on September 12, 2014, 01:31:20 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 25, 2014, 07:26:22 PM
As Noel pointed out...You would think that after 30 years of riding the same bike, I would know what gear I'm in....occasionally I still reach for sixth. :wacko1:
I agree with that... I occasionally try to grab for 6th as a joke to myself... I laugh about it when I do it too....
I'm using 20/37 gearing and I still search for 6th gear every time I ride, I don't really care what gear im in as I mostly ride by feel, but there is no doubt in my mind that the fj/xjr engine will happily pull 110kmh (70mph) at 3000rpm, no doubt whatsoever, standing starts will be the only problem, but its only a problem if your in a rush.