While working out my electrical-soup on my 1990 FJ1200, I noted that when I apply 12vdc to the fuel pump directly (not hooked up to tank and without fuel) I just get a click and nothing else. Now I would never run the fuel pump without fuel present for more then a second or so, but I expect more than just a click....
I did some searching and found a little bit about the fuel-pump points kits. Makes mne think I should crack it open and take a look inside...
But I've gone down that road before... Figured this time maybe I will ask first.
The only thing I can add is that the pump should "click" or run for about 4 or 5 seconds then shut off if it doesn't get a engine cranking / running signal from the ignition pickup via the CDI box to the fuel pump relay.
George
Quote from: dma251 on July 01, 2014, 10:48:39 PM
While working out my electrical-soup on my 1990 FJ1200, I noted that when I apply 12vdc to the fuel pump directly (not hooked up to tank and without fuel) I just get a click and nothing else. Now I would never run the fuel pump without fuel present for more then a second or so, but I expect more than just a click....
I did some searching and found a little bit about the fuel-pump points kits. Makes mne think I should crack it open and take a look inside...
But I've gone down that road before... Figured this time maybe I will ask first.
The end of the pump is just a cap and can be removed to access the points without "disassembling" the pump. George is right about it only running for a few seconds when wired through a standard harness but I would think with power applied independently to the pump it should run continuously.
Take the cap off and clean up the points and see what happens. The points don't do much work compared to ignition points but they generally don't get serviced or replaced at regular intervals either and will still get a bit crappy over time. Start with the simple stuff. Clean them up with a bit of emery or sandpaper or file or whatever and see what happens.
Noel
ooc, what did you expect the fuel pump to do when independently stimulated?
(other than click)
Quote from: theLeopard on July 03, 2014, 02:50:08 PM
ooc, what did you expect the fuel pump to do when independently stimulated?
(other than click)
My expectation is that it will hum/vibrate while power is applied. Instead, my pump just makes a single faint click, like a relay. One click.
I have been busy with other things and haven't pulled the cap off the end of the pump and take a look inside, but I will later today.
We must give this Amerikan a wide berth.
Quote from: dma251 on July 03, 2014, 04:11:26 PM
my pump just makes a single faint click, like a relay. One click.
Could be normal if you're float bowls are full or the hose to the carbs is blocked somehow. The clicking will be really rapidly when the fuel is flowing, then slow to a stop when the float valves close fully. Mine will click once or not at all if the float bowls are full.
Frank
Quote from: dma251 on July 03, 2014, 04:11:26 PMMy expectation is that it will hum/vibrate while power is applied. Instead, my pump just makes a single faint click, like a relay. One click.
Why would you expect that?
Electricity gives the pump power, but isn't what makes the pump operate.
The fuel flow within the pump is what operates the pump (via a sensor); if that sensor reads the pump is primed and fuel is not flowing your pump shouldn't do a damn thing.
That clicking sound is your fuel pump priming the system. When the clicking stops, your pump is ready.
Others with more technical knowledge could clarify the matter further.
Examples are often helpful, maybe this will clear up any questions:
I was working on my bike and closed the petcock to remove the tank.
When I remounted the tank I had forgotten to open the petcock.
When I started the bike the pump clicked. And clicked. And kept clicking. I even got on and rode it for a bit when it sputtered to a stop.
When I realized my error I opened the petcock, could audibly hear the vaccum created in the line disappear as fuel filled it, and the pump clicked a few times and was ready to go.
If I misunderstood your inquiry I apologize but my impression is you're on a wild goose chase here.
This is how I would test the fuel pump. Once the fuel system is up to pressure the pump shuts off until needed. Disconnect the fuel line from the pump to the carbs. Install a piece of fuel line to the pump out put port, direct this line into a container to catch the fuel. Now turn the key on or apply power to the fuel pump. It should start and run, pumping fuel out and making a buzzing sound. This may shut off after a few seconds but you will have fuel coming out of the line and all is well. If you do not get fuel, cycle it a few times. If all you have is a click and nothing else, look to a bad relay or pump. If the pump runs and nothing comes out, check for a blockage in the fuel system. Hope this helps.
Kurt
I guess I need to clarify - there are no hoses hooked to it. I hit it with 12vdc directly from a battery. There is only a single faint click.
That sound right? No fuel present, no hoses. Just power to the pump = 1 click.
One click is not right. Just turning the key on it will normally run for two or three seconds. The one click may just be the relay.
Kurt
How does the pump operate when no fuel is present?
I would think it would endlessly click like it did when I had my petcock closed, but then it wasn't sucking air either.
Does the pump detect air in the fuel line? If so, would that automatically shut-off the pump?
These are important questions, maybe someone has answers?
It's not the relay, because I gave it 12v directly from the battery. If it has a pressure sensor in it, it would sense no pressure and turn on.
I think maybe mine is seized somehow and the click is the motor. I still haven't had the chance to dig deeper into it.
Whatever it is, I hope it's in the points mechanism and not deeper inside. I really don't want to buy a new pump or roll the dice on a used one...
Check the points and see if you can get it move, before getting in to it too far. Hope this helps.
Kurt
'Scuse my newbie ignorance men, but do all FJ1200's have fuel pumps? I don't think my 1TX has one? Cheers, Terry. (mentally preparing for a bashing.......) :good2:
Quote from: Terry in Australia on July 05, 2014, 09:39:41 PM
'Scuse my newbie ignorance men, but do all FJ1200's have fuel pumps? I don't think my 1TX has one? Cheers, Terry. (mentally preparing for a bashing.......) :good2:
No problem Terry. Questions are always good. The answer is no. 1988-1993 FJ's have a fuel pump, the 84-87's are gravity feed. Because of the low head pressure in the gravity feed models they do not have a fuel filter and there needle and seat orifice's in the carbs are larger to flow fuel easier.
The fuel pump models have a fuel filter and smaller orifice's in there needle and seats and some additional control from the CDI for the fuel pump relay.
George
Quote from: Terry in Australia on July 05, 2014, 09:39:41 PM
'Scuse my newbie ignorance men, but do all FJ1200's have fuel pumps? I don't think my 1TX has one? Cheers, Terry. (mentally preparing for a bashing.......) :good2:
I think it was from 84-87 before the fuel pumps Terry.
Harvy
I hope he researches it and reports back, I would love to learn more about fuel pumps but I'm not troubleshooting mine :morning1:
Quote from: dma251 on July 03, 2014, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: theLeopard on July 03, 2014, 02:50:08 PM
ooc, what did you expect the fuel pump to do when independently stimulated?
(other than click)
My expectation is that it will hum/vibrate while power is applied. Instead, my pump just makes a single faint click, like a relay. One click.
I have been busy with other things and haven't pulled the cap off the end of the pump and take a look inside, but I will later today.
Sorry, but your expectation is wrong. The actions of the fuel pump are not dependent on vacuum!
The pump will cycle exactly 1x when 12V is applied if not installed. The pump cycles when an AC signal is supplied from the ignition. When the key is 1st turned on, there is a signal sent for 4-5 seconds to allow the pump to fill the carb bowls. If the bike has sat long enough for the carbs to be emptied, you may need to turn the key off and then back on several times for the carbs to fill. You'll know they're full when you hear the pump cycling slow, then click 1 or 2 x then nothing further until the engine is started. If you install the pump and it behaves as such, you're in good shape.
Hey thanks guys, I appreciate your wealth of knowledge! Cheers, Terry. :good2: