Okay it has been mentioned a couple of times since the WCR but there has been nothing official until now
Quote from: movenon on June 17, 2014, 06:09:58 PM
Speaking of the FJR fuel injection set up, not much has been said about that. I was pretty impressed. Standing by for more updates :good2:.
George
I have designed an electronic fuel injection system for the FJ.
It is not a FJR system. Everything else from the intake manifolds, fuel pump, ignition system and all the way down to throttle cables are specific items for this application.
The system ran almost flawlessly at the WCR and I was truly impressed with the system and it was a lot of fun to ride. We got the bike running the Thursday before the WCR and even with a really rough tune, it performed better than any set of BS36 Mikuni carbs because when you twist the grip you don't have to wait for fuel to draw from the emulsion tube, the fuel is there and the bike is pulling hard.
Since the FJ is air cooled, we have tried several different ways of reading the engine temp and finally decided the oil temp was the best way compared to trying to mount senders in fins of the head. The only problem I experience at the WCR with the EFI on my 86 was since the temp sensor is for "coolant" it does like temps above 225* and then the ECU goes into a "limp mode" to not burn up the engine. So, once the oil temps got to the 235* mark the engine ran poorly, but it did not leave me stranded and I was able to get back to camp.
Software changes are already completed and it has been running great since then.
So far there are no modifications required of the fuel tank, side panels or anything else to have the system installed. That was the first task, make it fit without having to modify the bike and that was successful. So, after that we started making the system run and that is the point we are now.
I am data logging all of the rides at this point with adjustments to tune being made to improve the system. This will continue until I am happy with the system in regard to performance and economy. I am working with a tuner specialist that is very sharp. He is the same guy who tuned my sons Miata to make just south of 400 wheel horsepower from a 1600cc engine.
The goal is to make the RPM EFI kit a plug & play system that can be installed onto an FJ with a minimal of modifications required to complete the install. There are things that will have to be done, like welding in a bung for the oxygen sensor in the exhaust, wiring and plumbing but that will be covered completely if the kit does become available.
I have to thank a couple of other FJ owners who have used their skills to get us to this point of the RPM EFI system. Without guys like Chris Wyatt and Dan Thiede, who both own and ride FJ's, I would not be to the point of development I am with the RPM EFI system.
I have no estimated time of release or even a cost point at this time. So far we are more than a year into this project at this point and until I am fully confident in all aspects of the system it will not be available for sale.
I will post more as information becomes available, but the posts will be few & far between as there are still hundreds, if not thousands of hours & miles of testing & tuning required.
Next time I have the tank off I will shoot a couple of pictures.
Randy - RPM
Yes!yes!yes! I'm sure you'll have a map for the 1350s ??? (popcorn)
And to top it off, there would be someone who claims that a FJ actually is fuel injected! I have it on good authority that EFI on the FJ ''cannot be done...!'' for many have tried in vain. Let us pray it is possible & who knows, perhaps the concept will give legs to the FJ for the next thirty years... Grabbed from Mike Ramos's eloquent prose.
Fred
Quote from: giantkiller on June 18, 2014, 01:08:58 PM
Yes!yes!yes! I'm sure you'll have a map for the 1350s ??? (popcorn)
Yep, that will be on the list.
Randy - RPM
:music: FUEL INJECTION PORN!!! :drinks:
Good news! Maybe this is a solution for my ignition woes ...
Is that a Colder coupling on the fuel line? It looks like one of their plastic ones. They make them in SS with Viton seals for not much more money. Much better for the under tank environment.
Very nice work on the FI!!!! Let me know if you need extra "testers."
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on June 18, 2014, 03:30:38 PM
Is that a Colder coupling on the fuel line? It looks like one of their plastic ones. They make them in SS with Viton seals for not much more money. Much better for the under tank environment.
Very nice work on the FI!!!! Let me know if you need extra "testers."
I think it was a Motion Pro coupler, which might be the same brand just repacked. It is not going to be a requirement, we only did that because the tank has been on & off at least 100 times while trying to sort everything out and I did not want to break my petcock elbow loose by installing the hose that many times.
I will look into the metal unit as well just in case I decide it should be a requirement.
...the line is long for "testers" at this point as they are lined up from all around the world...
Randy - RPM
I wonder how adaptable this would be to other Yamaha inline fours...
There is a rather large number of XJ series bikes out there and I'm sure a bunch of their owners would like to give up carbs as well.
Quote from: JPaganel on June 18, 2014, 04:33:57 PM
I wonder how adaptable this would be to other Yamaha inline fours...
There is a rather large number of XJ series bikes out there and I'm sure a bunch of their owners would like to give up carbs as well.
No very...
The intake manifolds for the FJ are exclusive to the FJ and will not work any other bike. There could be an opportunity to make intakes for anything, but my focus is for FJ's only if I can make it work.
Randy - RPM
Thanks for the update Randy. :good2: This really is a leap forward for the FJ's.
George
Wow, That is truly remarkable. I would love to have an EFI FJ, it would take the level of "Moditis" into the stratosphere. The added benefits of EFI would be sensational on the FJ. :good2:
Randy thanks for the hard work and the update. Please keep us posted with the new developments.
Kurt
that is badass Randy ,, seeing it in person was a treat.
the crowd around the efi fj was like a circle jerk.
Circle jerk ? Not sure what that is exactly but we didnt have one at the Oz rally.
Quote from: stua1959 on June 19, 2014, 05:07:58 AM
Circle jerk ? Not sure what that is exactly
:rofl: Here, this will help...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=circle+jerk (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=circle+jerk)
Umm just looked that word up....
From the urban dictionary
1.) When a group of males sit in a circle, jerking each other off. 2.) *NOT* when a group of males stand in a circle to jerk off onto a cookie or a...
whats it do to mpg?
You crazy Americans. We just drank beer and told lies
Quote from: Vsekvsek on June 19, 2014, 06:38:52 AM
whats it do to mpg?
Well, I got 34 mpg while riding all twisties at the WCR and I think I was riding pretty hard.
The mpg should also increase because EFI is now a fully controlled distribution of fuel not reliant on jetting and tapered needles.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on June 19, 2014, 02:09:47 PM
Quote from: Vsekvsek on June 19, 2014, 06:38:52 AM
whats it do to mpg?
Well, I got 34 mpg while riding all twisties at the WCR and I think I was riding pretty hard.
The mpg should also increase because EFI is now a fully controlled distribution of fuel not reliant on jetting and tapered needles.
Randy - RPM
Great Job Randy,
This is my next goal for my FJ. So to see it done on 2 separate bikes now is just awesome.
Is that a MicroSquirt under the battery?
Andrew
Hi Randy,
would you happen to have a ballpark figure of the cost so I can save up until you have a release date.
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: chocker on June 20, 2014, 01:54:46 PM
Hi Randy,
would you happen to have a ballpark figure of the cost so I can save up until you have a release date.
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: racerrad8 on June 18, 2014, 12:23:14 PM
I have no estimated time of release or even a cost point at this time. So far we are more than a year into this project at this point and until I am fully confident in all aspects of the system it will not be available for sale.
Randy - RPM
Mark,
I have no idea even what I have invested into the system as of right now. We have had to try several different fuel pumps, fuel filters, sensors and so I have spent much more than the system that is being tested right now.
Plus, each and every part was purchased at the retail level and if I am able to make this a production item, I will be seeking out vendors offering dealer pricing so I can build the kits.
I would love to give you a ball park, but I can't and wont until I get the system refined a little more to make sure we are able to use the system as it is.
Randy - RPM
As I have seen in the past, the time, effort and meticulousness you put into creating something new for all FJ owners is extremely appreciated and the products you put out are fantastic. I have already bought two oil filter adapters from you and I was very impressed by the quality. Still waiting eagerly for the handlebar risers to get here. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask and I was not insinuating that you would put less effort into this project as you have done in the past.
Thanks again,
Mark
No insinuation taken, I just can't put the cart in front of the horse on this one; I really do not know where I stand at this point.
I put it out there because people kept inquiring on the PM/email side and I just needed to be able to post about it once instead of a bunch of emails and PM's about the system.
I have too many times thought things were going to be a price or ready at a certain time and those plans have fallen through. The rear shock and exhaust system have both been the two biggest issues that have cost more time & money than expected.
I am still awaiting the exhaust system. I called three times this week for an update and a return call never happened, so I really don't know when to expect the exhaust. I was supposed to see them before the WCR and that past 4 weeks ago...
If and when I get more info that I am comfortable passing along I will gladly post it, but right now I cant offer anything.
Thanks for the interest and I hope I am able to make this a kit that will be available in the future.
Randy - RPM
On the subject of fuel economy -- any plans on making the system have different modes like are found on the newer systems ---economy mode -- cruising mode -- sport mode -- etc ---- I am thinking that is just part of the mapping but don't really know if it is necessary -----given the crew here they probably just want More Power mode.
steve
Randy, fair dinkum mate, you're going to be responsible for my next divorce the way you're going. :biggrin:
I'm looking forward to you getting this one sorted. I want my FJ1200 FI'd. :good: ...although it sounds like you're well down the track.
Best of luck, mate.
Quote from: moparman70 on June 20, 2014, 05:32:20 PM
On the subject of fuel economy -- any plans on making the system have different modes like are found on the newer systems ---economy mode -- cruising mode -- sport mode -- etc ----
Steve, the Microsquirt V3 is pretty basic and does not support multiple, on the fly, user selectable maps (not in the Microsquirt documentation I have read....)
http://www.useasydocs.com/ (http://www.useasydocs.com/)
Of course you can build different maps in your laptop, but you need to connect it to the ECU to upload.
One feature that I've always liked in the aftermarket ECU's was a function called "auto tune"
Instead of tuning on a dyno, building all the tables, with auto tune you just input the fuel/air ratio target values you want for the engine's different rpm ranges, then go for a drive....the ECU learns (via the o2 sensor) what data you need and automatically loads this information in all the tables for you....
Need to make a change? Change the target values, go for a drive, the system makes the revisions based on your new target values.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 25, 2014, 11:23:25 PM
One feature that I've always liked in the aftermarket ECU's was a function called "auto tune"
Instead of tuning on a dyno, building all the tables, with auto tune you just input the fuel/air ratio target values you want for the engine's different rpm ranges, then go for a drive....the ECU learns (via the o2 sensor) what data you need and automatically loads this information in all the tables for you....
Need to make a change? Change the target values, go for a drive, the system makes the revisions based on your new target values.
That is a great way of setting up the system. FJ is fairly calm below 5,000 rpm, above that the engine wakes up. Sounds like the EFI can be set up the same. Could be the best of both worlds.
Kurt
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 25, 2014, 11:23:25 PM
Quote from: moparman70 on June 20, 2014, 05:32:20 PM
On the subject of fuel economy -- any plans on making the system have different modes like are found on the newer systems ---economy mode -- cruising mode -- sport mode -- etc ----
Steve, the Microsquirt V3 is pretty basic and does not support multiple, on the fly, user selectable maps (not in the Microsquirt documentation I have read....)
http://www.useasydocs.com/ (http://www.useasydocs.com/)
Of course you can build different maps in your laptop, but you need to connect it to the ECU to upload.
One feature that I've always liked in the aftermarket ECU's was a function called "auto tune"
Instead of tuning on a dyno, building all the tables, with auto tune you just input the fuel/air ratio target values you want for the engine's different rpm ranges, then go for a drive....the ECU learns (via the o2 sensor) what data you need and automatically loads this information in all the tables for you....
Need to make a change? Change the target values, go for a drive, the system makes the revisions based on your new target values.
Pat/Randy,
I have my eye on building a MicroSquirt system. I will keep you posted on the results as I get it together. I plan to add a wideband sensor into the ecu. Then the bike could truly run on closed-loop and it would perform even better. I know of a few part that come with the ASIC chip already and are 0-5v plug and play units.
Andrew
Hi Randy
Any updates on the fuel injection... (popcorn)
Darran, it would be best to e-mail Randy.
He checks in here only on occasion.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 24, 2015, 01:15:29 AM
Darran, it would be best to e-mail Randy.
He checks in here only on occasion.
So, did he actually follow through and abandon us over a few page 3 photos?(which I notice has predictably run its course and died) or is his sustained absence over the taunting and comments that were made?
I just realised he has posted for a while.
Noel
G'day oz.fj here is a system on ebay. I wonder if anybody has retrofitted from an XJR1300 before!
I might try that again :wacko2:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-XJR1300-FUEL-INJECTION-CONVERSION-SUIT-FJ1100-AND-FJ1200-XJR1200-COMPLETE-/131395011326?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e97c0c2fe (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-XJR1300-FUEL-INJECTION-CONVERSION-SUIT-FJ1100-AND-FJ1200-XJR1200-COMPLETE-/131395011326?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e97c0c2fe)
Quote from: Andells1200 on January 24, 2015, 04:04:30 AM
G'day oz.fj here is a system on ebay. I wonder if anybody has retrofitted from an XJR1300 before!
Don't quote me on this but I think I remember reading somewhere, that there is a problem with the throttle bodies fouling on the FJ frame.
Pete.
What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ, what do you expect it to do that the carbs don't that warrants all the money and friggin' around to make it work?
Just curious.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on January 24, 2015, 05:00:49 AM
What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ, what do you expect it to do that the carbs don't that warrants all the money and friggin' around to make it work?
Just curious.
Noel
You just wouldn't understand.
Fuel Injection is magic.
Makes 3x more power, uses 15% less fuel, and the engine is always raring to go.
And, nothing to wear out, or get dirty, or have leaky diaphragms.
And so easy to tune.... All you need is a laptop and an eprom burner.
Plus, the system tells you what is wrong
(if you can read the diagnostic codes and have the proper connector).
And, when or if you ever need to troubleshoot the system,
you get to double think all the symptoms because the EMU is already
compensating for the spurious signals and parameters its getting.
Oh yeah, you're also dealing with high pressure fuel lines and pumps.
And being a digital system, it'll have a limited and fixed number of discrete
throttle positions so the difference between 2% throttle and 3% throttle may
give you a 10% difference in engine output. Can you say "touchy" ?
Give me a sorted set of carbs every day.
Arnie
^^ This could be one of those rare occasions that you can compare (albeit loosely) an automotive application to a motorcycle's. I have a car with close to 130,000 miles on it, that is equipped with multi-port fuel injection that I purchased with 33,000 miles on it. Since I've owned it, I have never had to once service its fuel injection system. I can't say that about any of the carbs on any of the FJs that I have.
I know:
1. The car is a daily driver, so it doesn't sit idle for extended periods like the bikes.
2. The car was made in this century. Unlike the FJs.
3. Something(s) else I can't think of right now.
Anyways, it's an observation on my part. The carbs on an FJ are a fact of it, and I've been around carbureted bikes all of my life, so I am used to their care. However, lack of servicing needed on the car with fuel injection has been most welcome. :good2:
Quote from: ribbert on January 24, 2015, 05:00:49 AM
What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ...
My perspective comes from z cars of various configs over the years and current FJ with FCRs:
Case #1 - I had a 240z with the std 2x Hitachi SU setup that I converted to 3x DCOE Webers. Throttle response was vastly improved to my taste and the accelerator pump + 3 fuel circuits allowed you to get it running like a fuel injected car (with significant dyno time), but only in a narrow temp and altitude range... ended up needing a set of jets for winter and for summer (pilots and mains). This car needed balancing and jet change 2x per year, but ran great and the increased power (about 15%) and throttle response were worth it for me. If I took it above about 6,000 feet, it would get too rich and run like crap... It also went from 20+mpg to 12-14mpg and my driving habits did't change much.
Case #2 - Our fellow FJ'er Dan has the 240 above, but now it has a 3 liter Rebello built 280z engine with tuned Hitachi SUs. My 3 liter is the same engine but has TWM side draft throttle bodies (essentially the DCOE Webers with an injector and an air bypass) and the cars are virtually identical in power (we confirm this frequently :good2:). I get the throttle response of the Webers combined with the closed-loop auto trim that compensates for temp and altitude, so now all I need to do is balance them once every couple of years. I also get about 1.4x the mileage he gets with the SU setup...
Case #3 - Wizard has FCRs that are dyno tuned really nicely. To my tastes the throttle response is (again) vastly improved (accelerator pumps) and the engine probably makes more power (don't have data here... maybe Pat should bring his bike up once Randy gets the dyno), but I get about 30 mpg on average. The get a bit rich(er) in the winter, but so far have run great in all temps and altitudes I've exposed them to. They do run better at dyno-tuned conditions, but so far have required no rebalancing (good, cause it is a bitch to do it with these things) and I've been too lazy to mess with the "winter jets/summer jets" that it could probably use. Runs like a hose and I'm delighted... but
Case #4 - Wizard will get fuel injection when Randy wants it to. I hope to replicate Case #2 (mostly the mpg improvement with no power loss) and that's why I want FI on the FJ...
Frank
Last I checked with Randy, the FI system is still up and running. He has solved the sensor issue.
He needs Dyno time to properly calibrate and build the maps, specifically the high rpm, high speed maps.
The thought of strapping his lap top on his bike and going 130mph down a runway to gather data, is not appealing to him.
He was looking at installing a dyno at his shop $$$ ...which would be way cool.
Frank, the stock BS36's really hold back my 1350 at anything above 7k.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 24, 2015, 11:43:51 AM
Frank, the stock BS36's really hold back my 1350 at anything above 7k.
Sorry to hear that... your poor Kookaloo must need constant attention. :praising:
Frank
When I was at the RPM shop a few months ago Randy described the FI on the bone stock '86 to be a huge improvement in performance. The response time between twisting the wrist and Kookaloo was quick, it could lift the front with stock gearing. Considering the improved fuel economy and added performance, I am following this development as an option to punching out my engine. It seems like I could add HP and still have control in how I want to use it. Once he has a Dyno set up we can see numbers and speculate less on the black magic of FI.
Quote from: Arnie on January 24, 2015, 06:26:02 AM
And being a digital system, it'll have a limited and fixed number of discrete
throttle positions so the difference between 2% throttle and 3% throttle may
give you a 10% difference in engine output. Can you say "touchy" ?
Arnie
That's a new one on me. How do you figure this? Even with a throttle by wire, this wouldn't be the case, because increments will be small. Throttle on FI does the same thing it does in carbs - opens the hole where the air comes in.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on January 24, 2015, 07:26:20 AM
I have a car with close to 130,000 miles on it, that is equipped with multi-port fuel injection that I purchased with 33,000 miles on it. Since I've owned it, I have never had to once service its fuel injection system. I can't say that about any of the carbs on any of the FJs that I have.
This.
I have always had old cars. All but a couple were FI. I have had to service the fuel system on a couple of them, but this really is a very rare occasion. My current 1995 pickup hasn't needed any FI service in the four or five years I've owned it. Whatever this "dealing" with high pressure hoses and pumps is supposed to be, it's really no big thing.
Quote from: ribbert on January 24, 2015, 05:00:49 AM
What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ, what do you expect it to do that the carbs don't that warrants all the money and friggin' around to make it work?
Just curious.
Noel
For me, it was a logical progression when I had my FCRs stolen (along with all the other parts and tools that were in the trailer). The stock carbs definately hold back a modified engine, I don't likes he street manners is the Mikuni RS carbs, and the correct set of FCRs were expensive and difficult to find. About that time Marc Rittner was selling a lot of FJ related item to fund his 200 mph effort on his Aprilia -- so I ended up with the FI bits. In the end it just seemed smarter to go down this road for me....
Chris
Pat
Bite the bullet and go for these. http://www.allensperformance.com/tmr40-d16.html (http://www.allensperformance.com/tmr40-d16.html) Or....I should buy them and sell you my FCR-39's (freshly rebuilt secondary to the f'ing ethanol in our fuel)?
So, I was idly browsing and came across this thread.
It's been a while. Whatever happened to the FIFJ?
Last I heard Chris (fj1289) has some components the RPM FI system on his race bike.
Randy has shelved development the FJ FI system until he gets his shop dyno installed.
Pretty much all the hardware is sorted. It's the ECU tuning that needs dyno time to properly develop.
It's been abandoned in favor of a full electric powerplant utilizing 48 Makita lithium battery packs from your local Home Depot tool aisle. :)
Quote from: ZOA NOM on August 09, 2017, 12:20:27 AM
It's been abandoned in favor of a full electric powerplant utilizing 48 Makita lithium battery packs from your local Home Depot tool aisle. :)
Wrong section, but I get the reference, credit for creative effort.
(http://images.uncyc.org/spank/c/cc/Icon_paddle.gif)
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 09, 2017, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on August 09, 2017, 12:20:27 AM
It's been abandoned in favor of a full electric powerplant utilizing 48 Makita lithium battery packs from your local Home Depot tool aisle. :)
Wrong section, but I get the reference, credit for creative effort.
(http://images.uncyc.org/spank/c/cc/Icon_paddle.gif)
:wacko1:
Wooden paddle emojis? Klavdy would've just posted the pic! And the bright red buttocks wouldn't be the most disturbing part of the picture ...
Pat, yes the race bike FI is probably 90% common with Randy's system. The main differences are component placement and fuel system upgrades to support 240+ horsepower levels.
Randy's goal is an OEM level of quality and "out of the box" function. That is a tall order to achieve. For example, I sent Randy a very well sorted project (fuel and ignition maps, basic and advanced settings, etc) from my stock 1200 engine. I fully expected him to be able to upload it and hit the start button. Nope! Not even close. Ryan had to help get it going - had to add a lot of fuel as I recall. Now I know a little more about the system - I think it might have been how the ITB (individual throttle bodies) works with just a single MAP sensor and no dedicated baro -- and then "exporting" the tune from 6800' elevation to near sea level. It will take quite a bit of development work to make a plug & play system that requires no permanent mods - but it will be worth it - especially as the supply of new carbs slowly diminishes.
Chris, do you use a dyno for tuning on your race bike?
Pat, I'd like to, but haven't had the opportunity yet. All my tuning has been from datalogging and making changes. When the tune is rough I use the VE Analyser algorithm to make changes. Then I tweek the maps to smooth them out a bit (most auto tuning or auto analysis programs can create some odd maps with large peaks and valleys that have to be manually smoothed out to create a "good" map).
I'd like to "build" a good tune via my techniques -- and then compare that to what a full dyno tune would create. But, you "always" need to tweek a dyno tune for the real world. It shouldn't be major changes, but has to be tweeked for the real world.
Ok, thanks Chris. On your data logging, to get the data, do you do high speed runs at, for instance, an airport, or do you run high rpm's in the lower gears and interpolate for 4th and 5th gear conditions.
Like Randy said, running an airstrip at 130 with a laptop strapped to the back of the bike is not his idea of fun.
Although I think it would be fun.
I began learning to tune it by trying to cover as much of the map as possible (all loads and rpms) on each run. I later learned I got much better and quicker results by focusing on one rpm band as much as possible for a run / trying to vary the load via hills and gear selection. Starting at say 3000 Roma for the first test ride. Then making adjustments to the map and "scale" the changes up the map for higher rpms. Then go try for 5000 rpms, etc. The problem like you allude to is finding a safe place to do higher rpm runs - especially at a higher load (usually gear).
When I start the tuning I give the O2 sensor a lot of authority over real- time corrections to the map (like maybe +/- 40%. Then, as the map gets closer, I decrease the authority to +/- 20%. Once I'm pretty happy with the map, I decrease it to maybe +/- 10%. I do this since an O2 sensor that goes bad (usually has been an O2 controller issue) can make it unrideable if it has too much authority.
I keep things a bit on the rich side for my tunes - like 12.5:1 for high load conditions, and come back to maybe 13.2:1 or so at cruise. Newer water cooled bikes will get tuned closer to 13.2:1 for WOT and leaner for cruise. I know I'm fairly aggressive with the throttle at times and want to make sure the air cooled lump stays happy. For a true daily driver or touring setup I'd go a little leaner - but haven't played much with it to see what the FJ likes.
I tried the real-time auto tuning a few times - never worked for me. I'd either kill the laptop battery too quickly or I'd end up with a blue screen of death or I'd end up with the lap top disconnecting from the ECU. So I datalog to an android phone using a BT transmitter or an OTG cable. Can't wait to try the internal SD card logging for the MS3!
I'll use the quarter mile at Bandimerr or Pueblo to test for the Colorado Mile. Then hopefully just one pass without nitrous to double check the tune at the Colorado Mile and then start working up the nitrous levels again.
Thanks Chris!
Speaking for all of us, we are looking forward to the development of this year's bike!
Thanks! It's coming together. I'm traveling home from vacation today. Hope to get it fired up this weekend!
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 09, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Ok, thanks Chris. On your data logging, to get the data, do you do high speed runs at, for instance, an airport, or do you run high rpm's in the lower gears and interpolate for 4th and 5th gear conditions.
Like Randy said, running an airstrip at 130 with a laptop strapped to the back of the bike is not his idea of fun.
Although I think it would be fun.
Good evening Gentlemen,
I agree Pat, it did sound like fun... at least initially....
It should be noted that the FI system as conceived for the FJ seriously improves engine performance. I do not know the engineering involved but it is substantial.
I had the opportunity to ride the FI FJ locally outside of Oakdale. I cannot state that it has Wizard's (or yours & other big bore engines) power, but it does pull exceptionally hard - and it DOES NOT let up. In better hands than mine, I have seen it lift the front wheel in the higher gears...
Back to the "sounds like fun part". I told the gentleman from RPM that I would run the FI equipped FJ through the gears to establish a baseline - I even have the freeway selected.
However, the 130 mph would only be part of it (say what?!) as it would need to pull PAST red line in FIFTH gear... hmmm, fourth I PERHAPS could do, but in calculating the FIFTH gear speeds at the rpm's needed, well... after having seen the power that they were able to achieve on the Miata with proper FI mapping, it got down right scary...!
So, as do others, I eagerly await a dyno at the RPM facility...!
Quote from: Mike Ramos on August 11, 2017, 02:40:53 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 09, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Ok, thanks Chris. On your data logging, to get the data, do you do high speed runs at, for instance, an airport, or do you run high rpm's in the lower gears and interpolate for 4th and 5th gear conditions.
Like Randy said, running an airstrip at 130 with a laptop strapped to the back of the bike is not his idea of fun.
Although I think it would be fun.
Good evening Gentlemen,
I agree Pat, it did sound like fun... at least initially....
It should be noted that the FI system as conceived for the FJ seriously improves engine performance. I do not know the engineering involved but it is substantial.
I had the opportunity to ride the FI FJ locally outside of Oakdale. I cannot state that it has Wizard's (or yours & other big bore engines) power, but it does pull exceptionally hard - and it DOES NOT let up. In better hands than mine, I have seen it lift the front wheel in the higher gears...
Back to the "sounds like fun part". I told the gentleman from RPM that I would run the FI equipped FJ through the gears to establish a baseline - I even have the freeway selected.
However, the 130 mph would only be part of it (say what?!) as it would need to pull PAST red line in FIFTH gear... hmmm, fourth I PERHAPS could do, but in calculating the FIFTH gear speeds at the rpm's needed, well... after having seen the power that they were able to achieve on the Miata with proper FI mapping, it got down right scary...!
So, as do others, I eagerly await a dyno at the RPM facility...!
NOW we're talking... Gimme some of THAT!
Quote from: ZOA NOM on August 11, 2017, 11:04:24 AM
NOW we're talking... Gimme some of THAT!
Sorry, too modern.
Here's the best we can do for you
:rofl2:
Bet a jelly donut that buggy has battery electric running lights... :wacko2:
Feed the horse the right diet and the lights could be powered by methane... :shok:
You guys are hilarious. I'll bet that jelly donut you guys are first in line for that FJFI system...
Quote from: ZOA NOM on August 14, 2017, 08:34:18 AM
You guys are hilarious. I'll bet that jelly donut you guys are first in line for that FJFI system...
Nup, they'd be at least second... :good2:
Quote from: GS Jockey on August 14, 2017, 04:45:58 PM
Quote from: ZOA NOM on August 14, 2017, 08:34:18 AM
You guys are hilarious. I'll bet that jelly donut you guys are first in line for that FJFI system...
Nup, they'd be at least second... :good2:
Actually, I think I'm the closest to RPM... Although Ramos will likely beat me there. :)
finally i can strap a nitrous tank onto my fj without catching on fire (usually due to my irresponsible tendencies) you know like a suggested wet 25 shot turning into a wet 50 shot with no fire extinguisher on hand....i really need adult supervision, then again maybe efi will solve my irresponsibilty issues what with not squirting gasoline off separate jets when im a little ignorant.
Quote from: brentjgordon on October 23, 2017, 12:50:18 PM
finally i can strap a nitrous tank onto my fj without catching on fire (usually due to my irresponsible tendencies) you know like a suggested wet 25 shot turning into a wet 50 shot with no fire extinguisher on hand....i really need adult supervision, then again maybe efi will solve my irresponsibilty issues what with not squirting gasoline off separate jets when im a little ignorant.
Dry nitrous sure is nice! Attention to detail is a must - lots of settings to ensure you understand and get right. After that though, it's almost cheating!
Well im definitely interested in installing that if it becomes available
Hi All,
Yep, I know this is nearly a year old but are there any updates in the FI kit that can be shared?
I wonder if there's enough interest to justify a crowdsource funding scenario for a development dyno? I know I would be willing to donate.
That would take a lot of donors to cover the cost of a dyno for RPM. I would be willing to donate though.
Joe
Quote from: Tuned forks on October 17, 2018, 12:32:46 PM
That would take a lot of donors to cover the cost of a dyno for RPM. I would be willing to donate though.
Joe
I agree, but I REALLY want a FIFJ.
Quote from: kwikas on October 16, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
Hi All,
Yep, I know this is nearly a year old but are there any updates in the FI kit that can be shared?
A year?
The first post in this puppy is from 2014.
Quote from: JPaganel on October 17, 2018, 04:38:35 PM
Quote from: kwikas on October 16, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
Hi All,
Yep, I know this is nearly a year old but are there any updates in the FI kit that can be shared?
A year?
The first post in this puppy is from 2014.
Yeah, I should have been more specific. I meant a year since the last post.
But as you say, it's been a topic for 4 years now so I was interested to find out whether this still had legs.
I think there is merit in getting FI for the FJ engine....or perhaps one could consider dropping the FI XJR1300 motor into the FJ frame if they were really hung up about it...
The RPM EFI system was in the middle of final tuning & details, but ran into the need for a dyno. The local shops are really not interested in helping me. The one local dyno guy that I was hoping to be a good connection did not pan out. Even when I took pat's bike for dyno time. I had to roll his bike outside to make the jetting changes. While I rolled off the dyno, another bike went on and I had to wait for that one to get done before knew if the jetting changes were what we needed or not.
Since 2014 I have had to make business decisions on what direction was best for my FJ specific business. The purchase of my Yamaha dealer was the right choice to ensure continuance of the Yamaha parts supply.
The RPM EFI system has been successful in taking Chris Wyatt o so close to the 200 MP goal of the standing mile at a mile in the sky.
They dyno is on the list of purchases as the RPM business model grows.
One note on the XJR1300 EFI system, it is a governed system to control speeds. There have been many XJR owners who have ditched the EFI for carbs so they can go fast.
The project is still on the counter next to the stove. When on of the burners opens up, it will go back on.
Thanks for Inquiring, Randy - RPM
Call me cynical, but I have been reading stuff like this before there was an internet. It was wonderfull to read in some magazine that someone had figured out how to make a turbo work on a particular brand or fuel injection on another.
Then the internet forums came along and all the bright folks could go back and forth discussing the merits of this and that and if this would work and so on. I lost interest way way back cause I knew I could never justify the cost of a properly designed system and honestly over the last 5 decades I have never seen aftermarket fuel injection brought to the motorcycle world in any great profusion.
What I have seen is a multitude of other stuff designed an brought to market at a reasonable cost, electronic ignitions come to mind exhaust and suspension and so on. Not to say there haven't been "one offs" that have served their purpose to say get up the hill or down the strip really really fast, but for the most part after market EFI is not prolific on motorcycles of age the way the less expensive stuff is. Although the folks at RPM are more than capable of designing a good system I wonder if it is really worth the effort.
Chiz
Quote from: chiz on October 21, 2018, 11:06:56 AMI have never seen aftermarket fuel injection brought to the motorcycle world in any great profusion. . . . the folks at RPM are more than capable of designing a good system I wonder if it is really worth the effort.
Chiz
Chiz,
After my decades of riding, it is safe to say that I have had the course with carbs, and I'd be
done, here. I can't wait for a good fuel injection system to appear, hopefully using some tried-and-true brands of fuel injectors from similar engines as mine. I would not want a system that uses one-source fuel injectors, unless that source sells a lot of bikes and will still be in business next year.
I know that Power Commander has a "learning" module that tunes the injectors on the fly, as you ride, and then saves the resulting "map" of mixture profiles. I wonder how difficult it would be to rig a Power Commander to a bank of injectors, to fit any particular bike. No Dyno needed; just copy the good "map" to the next bike, whether it will have the "learning" module or not.
:biggrin:
No need to be cynical Chiz, just be patient. (btw I fixed your spelling)
Of course, the future RPM FI system will not be a big seller, we know that and Randy knows that.
I could count on one, maybe two hands, the number of folks who would buy this offering.
That said, the prototype RPM FI system I saw was well thought out, and very well executed.
Using off the shelf (easily accessible via eBay) FJR throttle bodies along with RPM proprietary offset boots to fit the FJ cylinder spacing, was a stroke of genius. The high pressure fuel pump and fuel line routing designed in a way that you did not need to drill your tank for a return line, was a stroke of genius.
I was impressed.
Cracked your frame on a tour in the middle of BFE?
No worries, with the RPM FI Beefy Tostada ignition coils (tm) you could arc weld your frame. (kidding, but not really)
The silver lining is that every year we wait, the aftermarket ECU's get better and better. The Microsquirt ECU Randy used on his prototype has now evolved 2 generations since the FI prototype was built.
The Power Commander is used as a tuning accessory added to a FI bike that already has a ECU.
We call this a "piggy back".
This is done so you don't have to crack the highly complex code of (in many cases) a non programmable factory ECU.
When you start out with a fully programmable ECU like Randy will, the Power Commander is unnecessary.
The days of pulling our carbs and guessing on jetting will hopefully soon be behind us. (some of us)
The O2 sensor and the ECU (with auto tuning) will be simple to tune and dead nuts accurate. The new generation ECU's with the ability to store and recall multiple maps *on the fly* will be cool.
Want a power setting? Like 4th gear power wheelies? Got a cramp in your shoulders and you need to stretch them out?
Push a button.
Want a soft power setting for riding in the rain?
Push a button.
Riding on the freeway and want 50mpg?
Push a button.
Take a glass, add gasoline, put a straw in the glass and blow air across the top of the straw.
That's basically all we are doing now with our carbs.
Optimistically Pat
I cant argue with any of this In fact if I ever get another bike it's going to be fuel injected but that's a slim possibility at my age. Even if this new bike came with all the tuneability as mentioned I think I would try it once and that would be it for me. But I do understand that once a project is undertaken like EFI on an FJ folks want to see it through to the end. For me I would have a stroke just trying to understand the set up manual.. God's sake I dint even have a cell phone for this same reason I just avoid feeding the digital world beast; my desktop is as high tech as it gets round here.
Chiz
I find this stuff fascinating, not scary. I can always call Randy or Robert and ask WTF?
.....or log on to the forum here and Noel will walk me thru it.
I'm 65 and I figure I've got another 15 years left** to ride (God willing) so I do hope the RPM FI happens sooner, rather than later.
**When my sense of balance declines, I do have plans on turning my mistress into a bitchen 3 wheel trike (with fuel injection) Don't 'cha think an FJ with some 245/40-15 gum balls in the back, would look cool?
Gives me plenty of room to carry my walker.
Well all this discussion makes a body wonder, what does Randy want? So what is your preferred brand and type of dyno? Have you priced it? Dynojet eddy current?
Joe
http://www.dynojet.com/products/dynamometers/DynoModel250iX/dynojet-dynamometer-250ix.aspx (http://www.dynojet.com/products/dynamometers/DynoModel250iX/dynojet-dynamometer-250ix.aspx)
Randy talked about it here at post #10 http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18077.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18077.0)
I forgot about that thread. Don't know how you remember all this stuff Pat. Wonder why Randy wants wide body version?
Joe
Oh I get it now, the Legends cars. Duh.
Joe
Quote from: chiz on October 21, 2018, 05:30:35 PMI cant argue with any of this In fact if I ever get another bike it's going to be fuel injected but that's a slim possibility at my age. Even if this new bike came with all the tuneability as mentioned I think I would try it once and that would be it for me. But I do understand that once a project is undertaken like EFI on an FJ folks want to see it through to the end. For me I would have a stroke just trying to understand the set up manual.. God's sake I dint even have a cell phone for this same reason I just avoid feeding the digital world beast; my desktop is as high tech as it gets round here.
Chiz
Chiz,
Nothing difficult about a fuel-injected bike! :yes: Buy a running bike, turn the key and go. Carbs are
far more delicate and finicky. Other than adding a very occasional half-a-can of fuel injector cleaner to the gas during a fill-up, there is nothing strange or tricky about them. There is no "tunability" needed or wanted, with fuel injection. The Yamaha FJR1300 (the FJs new big brother) here can be had for US$3k~$5k in fine condition. The newer used versions can cost twice that much and more, of course. Those FJR engines typically run 250k+ miles with no costly repairs, so an FJR with 40K miles on the clock is barely broken in.
Replacing carbs with Fuel Injection on the FJ would be a fair challenge, sure, but you won't have any such concerns with the average Fuel Injected bike built in the last dozen years.
Kick the tires, and light the fires. SshOOoommm . . .
:biggrin:
Quote from: chiz on October 21, 2018, 11:06:56 AM
..... and honestly over the last 5 decades I have never seen aftermarket fuel injection brought to the motorcycle world in any great profusion.
What I have seen is a multitude of other stuff designed an brought to market at a reasonable cost, electronic ignitions come to mind exhaust and suspension and so on......but for the most part after market EFI is not prolific on motorcycles of age the way the less expensive stuff is.....
Chiz
I don't find that surprising. IMO the reason is simply cost/benefit. The cost of making a universal after market FI would be huge, fraught with problems (trying to make it universal) and would never sell in the volume required to make it worth while, and for the customer, very little benefit to justify the cost. With carbies being reliable and requiring very little maintenance once set up
properly* why would owners have wanted to change.
Bikes are relatively cheap and while you are thinking about buying an aftermarket FI system for your bike, next years model has hit the showroom, makes more power than your current bike would with FI, costs less to trade up to than the FI system would have cost and it's shiny.
Such an expensive upgrade to a current bike of the day you'll probably trade up every couple of years anyway is a different consideration to fitting it to your classic (the FJ) you never intend selling.
The motivation for manufacturers to change to FI originally was to meet increasingly difficult emission standards, not higher performance. Even the humble Honda Postie bike is now fuel injected for that reason.
I ride two bikes, one with carbs, one with FI. The only difference is one needs choke to start it cold and the other one doesn't.
*That includes jetting, tuning, fuel cut-off, supply, flooding etc.
Noel
I also find it funny that a lot of the moto-journalists who get to test properly set up 70's - 90's superbikes always comment on how much more "rideable" these carbed bikes are, than some of the modern FI and fly-by-wire bikes. They almost always comment on the "linear" response to throttle inputs.
My favourite magazines are Practical Sportsbikes and Classic Motorcycle Mechanics - and their testers seem to be big advocates of carbed bikes.
I've had an Aprilia RSV 1000 for 13 years, the only fuel injected bike I've ever owned and to be honest, I never even think about it being fuel injected - it works exactly as I expect it to and never even think about it. In terms of maintenance, I do everything on all my bikes, except messing with the FI on the RSV, but I have a great independent Aprilia expert nearby.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 21, 2018, 06:12:01 PM
.....I can always call Randy or Robert and ask WTF?
.....or log on to the forum here and Noel will walk me thru it.
Haha, why not, the last one went well!
I'm flattered Pat. Such high praise from
you is indeed humbling.:biggrin:
Noel
The motivation for manufacturers to change to FI originally was to meet increasingly difficult emission standards, not higher performance. Even the humble Honda Postie bike is now fuel injected for that reason.
I ride two bikes, one with carbs, one with FI. The only difference is one needs choke to start it cold and the other one doesn't.
Of course this I had not considered..... While we are at it wonder if any of the producers are thinking like Mazda with their compression ignition... probably not practical on a bike. I must mention here though that once OMC Jonson Evinrude went belly up because of warranty work on their untried and untested EFI two stroke outboards. Bombardier saw an opportunity and bought them out and now produce a fantastic outboard motor that is more powerfull uses less fuel and oil and is ultra reliable
Quote from: Millietant on October 22, 2018, 08:20:11 AM
I also find it funny that a lot of the moto-journalists who get to test properly set up 70's - 90's superbikes always comment on how much more "rideable" these carbed bikes are, than some of the modern FI and fly-by-wire bikes. They almost always comment on the "linear" response to throttle inputs.
I wasn't going to wander into that but I agree entirely. There's also a nano second of delay with the FI that you would get used to if not for alternating with a carb bike. Same for the electronically boosted brakes.
The harder you ride in the twisties the more pronounced the difference becomes. The modern bike is quicker but the FJ has more feel at the controls.
Noel
There is a delay on our FJ's between the time you open the throttle plates and the time it takes the slide to raise up.
We are used to it, we don't even notice.
You will only notice this if you ever get a chance to ride a FJ that has flat slide carbs, with fuel squirters.
The RPM FI system is reported to have an immediate effect on acceleration, much like flat slides but faster.
The response of our CV carbs is slow by comparison.
Throttle response on our CV carbs can be measured in 1/10's of a second, on a FI system it's measured in 1/100's of a second.
Exponentially different, not even in the same galaxy.
It's fast Jim, but not as we know it...... :sarcastic:
But, I wonder if that very slight delay works in our favour as everyday street riders, where the immediacy of FI works against our human senses (as opposed to the "enhanced" senses of top notch pro racers etc), making them feel jittery.
I really do notice that my FJ has a smooth feel to the throttle at small openings which makes it feel extremely "controllable". Because most of my miles on the RSV are track miles, I don't use the throttle in the same way - very little pootling around at low revs on track, so I don't really notice it as an issue.
Those are just a few of my thoughts - undoubtedly FI is the way to go for the future, in terms of economy, efficiency and reliability - but for old road bikes with carbs, replacemen doesn't seem like a value proposition unless the carbs are totally shot and a new working FI system can be had for a similar cost.
Now, for race engines - I can see it's a totally different picture.
Hey Dean, I know what you mean, that was exactly how I felt... "startled" when I rode the FJ with 39mm Keihin FCR's and a lightened crank. Holy Shit.
I remember thinking that this bike does not care if you are having an off day, you HAVE GOT TO pay attention. 100% attention.
For sure I was not used to it. I'm not sure I liked it.
Is there such a thing as having too crisp of a throttle on a street bike?
I think so, at least for for my ability and skill level.
Dean - in my experience with the fuel injection it is not "too sensitive" or "over reactive". It is just nice and crisp.
Best way I can explain it - think of it reacting quicker, but with smaller, more precise fueling adjustments.
All my tuning was done on the road and using conservative settings. I can only imagine how nice it will be when the tune is optimized on the dyno and then tweaked for road use. Ignition settings are the best gains with a well sorted EFI system - usually resulting in better fuel economy in cruise mode and better throttle response everywhere. Overall horsepower gains depend on how well the original carbs were sorted.
There is a lot of work that goes into making an EFI conversion run as well and reliably as an OEM type system. That is Randy's intent for the EFI conversion — unfortunately it will require a lot of focused and dedicated work to get there - and a dyno is truly the proper tool for that endeavor.
The other part of this is also as an eventual replacement for carbs once the Yamaha supply has dried up. How many years until that really begins to be a factor? Whenever it does occur, it will be nice to have a well sorted, easily supported alternative.
Quote from: fj1289 on October 22, 2018, 07:50:15 PM
Dean - in my experience with the fuel injection it is not "too sensitive" or "over reactive". It is just nice and crisp.
Best way I can explain it - think of it reacting quicker, but with smaller, more precise fueling adjustments.
All my tuning was done on the road and using conservative settings. I can only imagine how nice it will be when the tune is optimized on the dyno and then tweaked for road use. Ignition settings are the best gains with a well sorted EFI system - usually resulting in better fuel economy in cruise mode and better throttle response everywhere. Overall horsepower gains depend on how well the original carbs were sorted.
There is a lot of work that goes into making an EFI conversion run as well and reliably as an OEM type system. That is Randy's intent for the EFI conversion — unfortunately it will require a lot of focused and dedicated work to get there - and a dyno is truly the proper tool for that endeavor.
The other part of this is also as an eventual replacement for carbs once the Yamaha supply has dried up. How many years until that really begins to be a factor? Whenever it does occur, it will be nice to have a well sorted, easily supported alternative.
I understand what you mean, but I don't really have any experience of FI bikes other than my RSV - and it wasn't the smoothest at very low speeds/rpm' - which I (as a layman) put down to a combination of mostly it being a big V twin and slightly down to its FI being designed primarily for higher rev running (it's very snatch compared to the FJ).
I do know that I much prefer the FI in our cars now to the old Twin SU carbs my MG's had in the 1970's :biggrin:
Quote from: Millietant on October 22, 2018, 08:20:11 AM
I also find it funny that a lot of the moto-journalists who get to test properly set up 70's - 90's superbikes always comment on how much more "rideable" these carbed bikes are, than some of the modern FI and fly-by-wire bikes. They almost always comment on the "linear" response to throttle inputs.
I now have three FI bikes of different generations.(Ok, one is my wife's) Analog from 1986, early digital from 1996, and a relatively recent from 2003. There is nothing non-linear about their throttle response.
Seriously, how can the tiny digital increments be less linear than having distinct circuits in the carb?
I could see this being a complaint against some very early FI systems, but on a modern one it just makes no sense.
Quote from: ribbert on October 22, 2018, 08:35:40 AM
I wasn't going to wander into that but I agree entirely. There's also a nano second of delay with the FI that you would get used to if not for alternating with a carb bike.
I don't know what kind of FI you have dealt with, but on all of the ones that I know it is exactly backwards from that. There is no delay, especially compared to my FJ and XJ with their CV carbs. Switching from one to the other I have to be more careful on the FI, as it reacts immediately.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 22, 2018, 12:22:04 PM
There is a delay on our FJ's between the time you open the throttle plates and the time it takes the slide to raise up.
We are used to it, we don't even notice.
You will only notice this if you ever get a chance to ride a FJ that has flat slide carbs, with fuel squirters.
The RPM FI system is reported to have an immediate effect on acceleration, much like flat slides but faster.
The response of our CV carbs is slow by comparison.
Throttle response on our CV carbs can be measured in 1/10's of a second, on a FI system it's measured in 1/100's of a second.
Exponentially different, not even in the same galaxy.
Exactly.
Also, FI systems are tons safer than having carbs which spill gas when tipped over. Pretty sure that if the FJ I wiped out on was FI, it wouldn't have burned down.
Quote from: JPaganel on October 23, 2018, 12:28:48 AM
Also, FI systems are tons safer than having carbs which spill gas when tipped over. Pretty sure that if the FJ I wiped out on was FI, it wouldn't have burned down.
Whoa, no one is suggesting carbs are better than FI. The discussion merely talked about the benefit of converting a bike with existing carbs to FI was not significant enough to warrant the expense. It then dfrifted on to some subtle differences in feel.
Maybe by the time I'm Pat's age I'll know what he know's, in the meantime I'll defer to his experience on the subject. :biggrin:
Noel
Noel
Having read all the replies regarding input reaction of carbs vs FI I am reminded of the difference between two of my dirt bikes. I own a 2009 WR 250 and a 2018 WR 250. At the start, I was startled at the jumpy throttle of the 2018 bike. I was a little concerned to say the least, as I ride trails almost exclusively . It was unnerving and I thought it too responsive. I even purchased the Yamaha power tuner to soften the response. My thought was to ride it for 4-500 kilometers first and once I really understood it, to fiddle with it, making it less jumpy at low speed. What happened was, I went back to the 2009 bike and could not believe how slow the throttle response was, and how much input and effort it took to gain any speed at all. So what really happened is the 2018 bike reprogrammed my wrist and now that I'm used to it, it is much easier to ride than the 2009. when any of us try something new the slight input changes are immediately felt and they don't always feel good. However, over time as we become accustomed to it, the real benefits are realized.
Quote from: ribbert on October 23, 2018, 04:27:39 AM
Maybe by the time I'm Pat's age I'll know what he know's, in the meantime I'll defer to his experience on the subject. :biggrin:
Hey Noel, buddy boyo, I have a feeling we are close to the same age...just a feeling.
I never rode the RPM FI bike so I have no experience with FI on a FJ, Chris and Randy know, I do not.
I have had experience with factory FI on other bikes, most have been great, except for that first year 2014 FZ09 which was not so good.
Embarrassing that Yamaha let that new bike out in the market with a tune like that, although it made Dynojet very very happy with the sales of their Power Commander.
Pat,
Another bike that Yamaha released before it was ready for prime time was the early 2nd gen. FZ1. The low speed throttle response was terrible, I noticed it before I managed to get out of the parking lot on a test ride. The 2006 was generally acknowledged as being the worst, but later years were still afflicted with it to a lesser degree. It spawned the creation of several different "fuel cut eliminators" to bandaid over the problem, eventually they fell out of favor due to better reprogrammed ECUs becoming available. It seems that some manufacturers are better at creating flawless fuel injection programs than others. :mail1:
Thanks Joe, yea, there is something to be said about the advantage of offering a FI kit with a fully programmable aftermarket ECU vs. futzing around with a factory hard coded ECU with tuning flaws, and then needing to correct it with band-aid piggybacks.
:good: