#1: 38psi below minimum
#2: 28psi below minimum
#3: 18psi below minimum
#4: 08psi below minimum
no comment.
going to replace rings, valves, and gaskets.
can someone direct me towards the items I need, please. I don't have a parts catalog and don't know what to buy since I've never done this before.
Leopard,
Please describe the method you used to check your compression (cold or hot engine), and what the actual values are.
Did you happen to also perform a leakdown test?
I ask, because I care!
Steve
Quote from: theLeopard on June 09, 2014, 06:49:05 PM
#1: 38psi below minimum
#2: 28psi below minimum
#3: 18psi below minimum
#4: 08psi below minimum
no comment.
going to replace rings, valves, and gaskets.
can someone direct me towards the items I need, please. I don't have a parts catalog and don't know what to buy since I've never done this before.
Engine was warm.
Plugs were still hot to the touch, but not too hot to handle.
haven't done a leakdown yet. don't have the gauge nor a source of compressed air.
#'s came in from 1-4 @ 90,100,110,120.
thanks for choppin it up with me. i'm kinda stressed cause I started leaking fuel on the freeway again (not much, just a very slow drip out of all 5 of my hoses) but I think this would explain most everything that's bothering me. lousy idle, smokes bad when it's cold, runs great when it's at speed but every now and again I get a very slight hiccup in my rpm.
won't ride until I fix this, the idle is down to 600 hot and it was at 1000 last week.
Also,
If you are leaking fuel, that could be washing down the cylinders causing the low compression and smoking.
You really need to her the carbs sorted out before you do anything else.
Randy. - RPM
I'll tear em apart again, but I swear the carbs are in good order.
I inspected them myself, clean as a whistle. And the needles seat properly cause the leaks disappeared last week after I pulled out that faulty emissions system.
Which probably wasn't faulty but that's not really the point.
also,
it only leaks when I get on the gas pretty good. which is usually, but if i'm just puttering around town it's dry.
as soon as I open it up (like I did on the freeway today) is when I notice overflowing fuel from the carbs and also from that atmosphere hose.
Spots, if your carbs are dripping fuel, they're still f'd up. Now it sounds like float levels are too high. As we've all been telling you since your 1st post, either they're right or they're WRONG. I'm pretty sure yours are not right!
As to your compression woes: I understand it's not 'RIGHT'. But this is a bit more complicated than a simple set of carburettors. You've got to have a semi-sterile environment to work in, like a garage. Do you have that? Do you have the tools to disassemble & reassemble an engine? Are you going to have to run out the store for a wrench? How about a mallet to get the cylinder head off? Have you ever put rings onto a piston? How about a 3 piece oil ring? Do you have 2 ring compressors to install 2 pistons at a time into the bores? Have you ever tried to install circlips into the wrist pin bores? Do you have shop rags to STOP the circlips from going in the crankcase? How about a magnet & flash light to RETRIEVE the circlip that just went INTO the crankcase?
Are you getting the picture yet? This is not a job for a rookie! You may have all the desire, piss & vinegar to do this, but there are about a million ways for this to go wrong, and exactly 1 way for it to go right. This because your compression numbers are a bit low? Get the small shit sorted, run it a while, see how it runs, then let's revisit this in a while.
FYI, I just kissed off a car because the block was warped, which I learned AFTER I spent a shit load of $$$ rebuilding the heads and associated gear. And let me tell you, this wasn't my 1st rodeo, yet I still got burned. Are you sure YOU want to try this???
Not trying to be insulting, but trying to get your feet on the ground before you resume digging.
Ed
Good post Ed :good2:
George
how clean is your fuel tank?
if there is rust in there it will keep messing up your carbs , no matter how clean you get them.
the fuel filter doesn't catch everything and your model has small float ports that will hang open with junk.
Yamaha makes a product called ring free. Get the carbs sorted out then try it first. A small amount of money and time may fix this. You can always go back in and do the rebuild later if this dose not work. Hope this helps.
Kurt
Garage: not really
Disassembly tools: need a 22mm to hold the camshaft but i think I've got everything else.
trip to the store: is why i'm here causing such a stink, store runs are the worst mid-project problem
mallet: check
previous experience: none
3 piece oil ring: huh?
two ring compressors to install two pistons: that's not in my manual :flag_of_truce:
circlips: haven't yet
shop rags: check
magnet & flash light: check and check
Get the small shit sorted, run it a while, see how it runs, then let's revisit this in a while: roger that! :drinks:
The tank appears clean, mark. And i'll check out that additive kurt. Might do the trick, as long as I don't break the thing by overrevving in neutral or something equally :dash1:
I just cleaned her up yesterday, here's an update:
(http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a417/sunkenstrings/IMG_20140613_175848.jpg)
fuel leak disappeared and it's not smoking as bad. not sure what caused it so i'm just monitoring the situation.
gonna try bleeding the clutch today, putting off rebuilding the carbs until I can buy new intake manifolds (or unless it's immediately necessary).
Just go ride it now , you washed it so now you can see any leaks.
Brian, that's a nice looking bike! I'm glad to see you've read AND responded to some of our posts. Keep it up, we'll get you on the right page yet.
Ed
I'm fairly confident there's a small oil leak from that #1 cylinder @ the valvecover nut but I think i'm bleeding the clutch wrong...
question1: do the clutch and brake systems share the same reservoir?
question2: after pumping the lever a few times then loosening the bleed screw some fluid enters the tube I've connected to the screw and as I slowly release it just ends up sucking air. is this bad? (I would think so but I gotta ask)
I syphoned the reserves in the reservoir because it looked like molasses, here's the reservoir I'm putting DOT3 fluid in
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_130113_zps9b1977f9.jpg)
using Prestone DOT3 brake fluid but the guy said DOT3 is DOT3 is DOT3 and it shouldn't matter if it's the clutch or brake cup.
the reservoir is located on the right side of the bike.
I found my (edit*)brake reservoir.... :dash2:
how do I clean this out? shop rag?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_133007_zpsb9608f7a.jpg)
Mate, best thing you can do with that master cylinder is take it apart and clean it properly, giving it a new seal kit at the same time. You will find that all that gunge is in the bore of the cylinder and also right through the line and into the slave cylinder ( its all down hill from that reservoir).
Do yourself a favour and purchase master and slave kits and also a spray can of brake cleaner.
Remove the banjo bolts at the master and slave now that the master is empty. Put the slave end into a clear plastic bottle (like coca cola or similar) and flush the line thru with the spray can.
If you don't have the necessary tools and knowledge, I suggest the master and slave cylinders be cleaned by someone who knows what they are doing. Now that the WC rally is over I'm sure one of the socal boys will pop up with the offer of assistance.....
But to answer your question......yes a shop rag will clean that stuff out of there but it won't make the system any better just cleaning that.
Cheers
Harvy
it's in pieces, need those pliers to remove the circle clips.
you're correct, the entire thing is filthy. if I clean the master cylinder and bleed the hoses properly will that be sufficient?
I can't find any info about the slave in the brief look I gave to my manual.
Quote from: theLeopard on June 14, 2014, 05:03:17 PM
it's in pieces, need those pliers to remove the circle clips.
you're correct, the entire thing is filthy. if I clean the master cylinder and bleed the hoses properly will that be sufficient?
I can't find any info about the slave in the brief look I gave to my manual.
OK Brian, school's back in session:
It's "Circlip", or snap ring; not "circle" clip. You need a set of "snap ring pliers" to get that bugger out. The problem with all that shit on the bottom of your brake (and clutch!) system is: it is heavier than the brake fluid and settles to the lowest point in the system. Either at the caliper or slave cylinder. The slave needs to come apart. See if the bore is rusted and/or pitted. Pitted means its TOAST!
Calipers are another story. You may have noticed the discussion of Blue Dots. Far easier solution than working on the original calipers. What about the brake lines? Still rubber? They need to go!
alright i'll tear apart the slave cylinders (those are the assembled units on the calipers, yes?) but
I still need someone to walk me through bleeding the system. I can't for the life of me do it properly and the manual assumes I already know how.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_181828_zpse23882cf.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_172638_zpsfb2be090.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_172645_zps6855fd6e.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_191719_zpsb5fbb4cd.jpg)
figured out what gravity drip is, and they were dripping clean by the end of this service.
everything inside the slaves was orange. doing the rears tomorrow.
still need an explanation on bleeding the lines though, not really sure how it works.
productive day! thanks guys! :good:
Slave cylinder is clutch, not Brakes! Brakes have calipers. What rust did you remove? Visible rust means nothing. The rust between the piston and the bore is what matters.
Keep reading!
Quote from: theLeopard on June 14, 2014, 09:43:13 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/capnfrank/IMG_20140614_172645_zps6855fd6e.jpg)
OK, here's the next thing. Looking at the above pic, I see you've unbolted the caliper halves. Big No-No! Yamaha DOES NOT SELL THE O_RINGS! You damage or lose one, or it doesn't fit for reassembly, you've toasted a caliper.
Do you have a shop manual? Do you ACTUALLY READ it? You can only get lucky for so long, then something goes south. Like the gasoline overflow from the carbs, or dumping all your oil while riding home.
If you keep doing stupid shit, you're gonna get hurt! Stop doing stupid shit! Read up BEFORE you start doing something. Ask questions.
Ed
Ed, I'm the first to 'dip me lid' to you for persevering with this the thread and the amount of detail you are going into but it's a bit hard coming down on him like that over terminology he is clearly not familiar with. In hydraulic terms, a caliper is a slave cylinder anyway. Not how they are commonly referred too but technically correct and certainly doesn't warrant a rebuke (I just noticed Harvy called them slaves as well).
As far as those 'O' rings between the caliper halves goes, you can get something that will do the job from any bearing service.
Leopard,
Harvy suggested new seals all round. New seals are a MUST if dismantling. Once you have removed the seals from the bores, do not reinstall them. If you do, they may not leak straight away, but they will certainly leak a lot sooner than they would have left undisturbed. It is also a waste of time putting new seals into a cylinder if the condition of the bore is sufficiently scored or otherwise damaged, and to make that call, you need to know what you are looking at.
You have unnecessarily opened up a can of worms here. If simply wanting to have brakes that work on a budget you could have either left them alone or flushed the system out in situ rather than jump the gun and pull everything apart.
Anyway, you've done it now. Just make sure you don't get fluid on the disc pads and the discs are clean.
Noel
Quote from: simi_ed on June 14, 2014, 11:12:46 PM
Slave cylinder is clutch, not Brakes! Brakes have calipers. What rust did you remove? Visible rust means nothing. The rust between the piston and the bore is what matters.
Keep reading!
though it is just semantics, I believe "slave cylinder" is a generic term that applies to the "receiving end" of all hydraulic systems (pressure is generated in the "master" and transmitted to the "slave"). Brake caliper assemblies include such a slave.
Pretty sure.
Agreed. However, if you walked into a parts store with a caliper and asked for a "slave rebuild kit" or a "rebuilt slave cylinder", the parts guy (and most everyone else in the place) would look at you as if you were an idiot. Again, I agree, technically it is a "slave cylinder", but since the youngster has ZERO KNOWLEDGE, should we at least try to educate him properly? Or do we want to have another person that cannot describe an item using common terminology?
Point taken.
I usually just go to the parts place and ask "do you have one of these thingees?"
umm,, you guys are having man-talk time and I respect that but I just wanted to update everyone on current events.
1) I rebuilt all 3 brake calipers.
2) I flushed all 3 brake lines
3) I bled all 3 brake lines
4) I serviced the brake master cylinder but couldn't find a suitable tool at the local store to remove the circlips so I didn't get to rebuild that
4) I flushed clutch line
5) I serviced the clutch master cylinder, same as above
6) I did not get the chance to remove the clutch slave due to time constraints but am interested in possibly doing that next weekend
questions:
1) all my lines are kinda squishy despite not seeing any air in the lines. ride a few days and try again?
2) I spilled DOT3 all over my left-front brake-disc. problem? solution? buy a sledge?
3) when I was pumping my clutch to flush the line it kept dripping from the bottom of the oil-filter fitting. I have OEM oil/clutch parts so I presume it was leaking from the bleed screw?
will reread and try to pick up the semantics being rolled around, accurate terminology is important for both instruction and learning.
ed: yes, I read my manual but mostly its a brief skim, start the project, get stuck the reference the book. works pretty good for the most part if I don't lose anything
noel: understood. you are referring to the clutch-slave, not the brake-calipers, yes? I didn't see any gaskets for the calipers; but i'll remember to buy new rubbers any time I rebuild other OEM parts (or any parts for that matter).
Quote from: theLeopard on June 15, 2014, 04:02:40 PM
questions:
1) all my lines are kinda squishy despite not seeing any air in the lines. ride a few days and try again?
2) I spilled DOT3 all over my left-front brake-disc. problem? solution? buy a sledge?
3) when I was pumping my clutch to flush the line it kept dripping from the bottom of the oil-filter fitting. I have OEM oil/clutch parts so I presume it was leaking from the bleed screw?
I read my manual but mostly its a brief skim, start the project, get stuck the reference the book. works pretty good for the most part if I don't lose anything
1, If your lines are "squishy" its likely due to their age. They should be replaced, preferably with StainlessSteel braided lines. If you're saying your braking feels "squishy", that would be because you haven't bled all the air out of the system. Try again.
2. Brake fluid on your disk is a BIG problem. Get some brake cleaner and clean the disk thoroughly. If you've also contaminated your brake pads with fluid.... you should replace them, but you may be able to get away with just soaking them in brake cleaner for a day. Your braking will be diminished.
3. The dripping from the oil filter housing is most likely actually from the clutch slave which is immediately above the oil filter housing. You need to either rebuild or replace the clutch slave.
You will need a rebuild kit (at least). RPM has them and they are inexpensive.
4. You are not (yet) at the stage to skim your manual as you do a job. READ it before starting and then reference it as needed during that job.
Arnie
Thanks arnie, i'll start planning this weekends project.
And another 2 cents :greeting:
I am guessing you have not seen anyone bleed a brake/clutch system, if this is the case then have a look on YouTube (because a picture is worth... ).
Although not necessarily FJ specific there will be good videos showing how it is done.
To "theleopard"
Good work on getting into the Fj bug, looks like you are having an experience getting to know your bike. While reading the manual can be a great way to start, there are also lots of online resources to help get youor head around methods or terminology. As suggested youtube has heaps of videos on how to do things, and there are lots of websites such as this one:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm)
that have handy basics. At the end of the day, enjoy working on your bike, you will make mistakes, just try and be sure they are cheap ones...
Correct fitting tools, patience, and heaps of rags are a great start.
Good luck
gareth
Quote from: mr blackstock on June 24, 2014, 04:08:46 PM
To "theleopard"
Good work on getting into the Fj bug, looks like you are having an experience getting to know your bike. While reading the manual can be a great way to start, there are also lots of online resources to help get youor head around methods or terminology. As suggested youtube has heaps of videos on how to do things, and there are lots of websites such as this one:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm)
that have handy basics. At the end of the day, enjoy working on your bike, you will make mistakes, just try and be sure they are cheap ones...
Correct fitting tools, patience, and heaps of rags are a great start.
Good luck
gareth
+1 on the kudos for sticking with it and getting your hands dirty and being willing to learn!
I know it took a while for me to get enough of the basics figured out to start fixing things more often than breaking them...then again, making a mistake on an old Honda 100 doesn't tend to me quite as critical as on a 100 + horsepower, 500 pound FJ! Just keep double checking your work and make sure it's "right" before betting your (on other people on he road) life on it.
It surprises me how few people these days grow up with almost zero exposure to doing anything mechanical. In the last 6 months my stepson has gone from not liking to get his hands dirty to being interested in taking care of (and modifying!) his dirt bike. A few weeks ago he installed his new exhaust on his own -- and without stripping or breaking anything or losing any of my tools...can't wait for Christmas to get him some of his own tools