BUENA PARK (CBSLA.com) — The California Legislature is looking at a voluntary program that would tax motorists for every mile they drive.
KCAL9's Bobby Kaple reports that Sen. Mark DeSaulnier, D-Concord, introduced a bill to test out the vehicle miles traveled (VMT) tax because the state's gas tax was no longer bringing in the revenue it used to due to people driving more fuel efficient vehicles.
The program is modeled after ones in Oregon and Washington.
"We want to do as Washington and Oregon have done in a much bigger state with much longer commutes...to make sure that we find out whether it would work, whether the public would like it or not," DeSaulnier said.
It's unknown how much the tax would be, but Oregon currently charges its volunteers 1.5 cents per mile.
"All of those things would be determined. We would let the agency determine that because this would be a voluntary program," DeSaulnier said.
Southland commuters were not thrilled about the idea of a VMT tax.
"I bought a hybrid...one, because of my drive. I'm very opposed. I drive to Brentwood every day from Burbank, and I am already paying more than I should be," Carmen Smith said.
"So if we go on vacation and I drive up to Mammoth, that's 600 miles. We're being taxed on vacations?" Kim Robinson said. Plus they already have some of the highest gas prices in the USA . Dave
(popcorn)
So, the electric cars get taxed once, and the gas cars get taxed twice?
Anybody wanna bet that those states will abolish the gas tax, when they add in the tax-per-mile plan? Not likely !! :biggrin:
Cheers,
Red
And they say there's no gold left in california. Ha! :drinks:
I wish, but wife still not good with her broken femur. :ireful:
She's just now beginning to use the walker and out of the wheelchair. :good:
CraigO
Unfortunately I think vehicle miles traveled tax will become mandatory for CA in the near future. It was no coincidence this bill was introduced to the CA legislature. Earlier in the week the GOP in Washington planned a huge cut in the federal transportation grant program that funds road and bridge projects in the 2015 budget year. It is an 83% cut from current levels. If you think CA is hurting for highway funds now just wait untill next year. Dave
So how does this work?
Currently we get taxed at the gas pump...(and every year for registration)
Do the "volunteers" pay a different rate for gas? (less the fuel tax) if so, sounds burdensome for the vendor.
Or will they pay the full price (all year) and get reimbursed at the end of the year?
Will Kalif install black magic boxes on your car which tracks and reports your mileage? (That will be popular)
Newsflash: Californias middle class leaving in droves. Californias lawmakers mystified why
How does it work? Just like every other government tax program---bend over! I think this "voluntary" thing is just to get Californians used to the idea. I think it will be mandatory very shortly. Dave
Once again, Californians leading the nation in letting their politicians form a police state. Oh goody!
California has to come up with the highway funds for building and repairing. I think the politicians looked at OR and WA and decided we could do this also. Texas does it in a sneaky way. The politians here appropriate our gas tax money for other uses and then tell the public they don't have enough money for roads and we need more toll roads. At least CA is more honest about it. Dave
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 07, 2014, 07:04:47 PM
So how does this work?
Currently we get taxed at the gas pump...(and every year for registration)
Do the "volunteers" pay a different rate for gas? (less the fuel tax) if so, sounds burdensome for the vendor.
Or will they pay the full price (all year) and get reimbursed at the end of the year?
Will Kalif install black magic boxes on your car which tracks and reports your mileage? (That will be popular)
There are currently 5000 "volunteers" in Oregon's VMT tax scheme. Apparently, they get a rebate at the end of the year...not really sure how that is scaled. They allowed 1,500 of the volunteers to be vehicles that got 17MPG or less per gallon. I'm sure those sign ups went in the first ten minutes...Likely put in place to show how "popular" this new idea is! Obviously, the collection of a new tax will have a cost overhead...Salaries, marketing, some oversight panel, collection processing, device installation, defending privacy lawsuits...Add in the rebate amounts and the VMT tax collected will have to make up the vast costs involved before any net tax is even realized! Someone who bought a 75MPG car (me) 8 years ago will be getting screwed by this program compared to someone driving a 6000 pound Suburban.
You mentioned registration fees as well. Mine have all more than doubled since owning most of my cars... New York State is just behind California as the two highest fuel tax states in the country, but at least they base their registration fees on the WEIGHT of the vehicle...that should take into account the wear and tear you put on the highways. My commuter car only weighs 1850 pounds. If I put less wear and tear on the highways, I should be taxed less (Hey, I can dream right?) :rofl:
Oregon states that getting past the privacy concerns of the ACLU was a simple meeting with a few questions when asked about the tracking of people and mileage and location (What if I drive out of my state?). A GPS tracking device isn't mandatory (yet), but the "volunteers" can choose from a number of commercially available devices or self report (for now).
We're all the proverbial frogs in the frying pan... :ireful:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: Vsekvsek on May 07, 2014, 07:10:08 PM
Newsflash: Californias middle class leaving in droves. Californias lawmakers mystified why
The Torrance Toyota facility is moving to Texas next year. I wonder why?
Incrementalism at it's finest... First volunteers, then only certain classes of vehicles, then only during peak seasons for all, then.. well, you know..
I'm getting charged an additional 300 bucks per year " heavy vehicle tax" for my Landcruiser in NSW, Oz, which works out to an additional 30 odd cents/ mile over and above the taxes the government pulls out at the pump for the miles I do each year.
They don't miss the bike either, 700 bucks compulsory third party insurance because riders are 'vulnerable road users'. Still waiting for someone from the government to explain to me why they've collected about 8 billion more then they've paid out in claims in the last ten year but still want to up the premiums.
I've considered joining an organised crime gang but have concluded that the only way to really get ahead of the system is to become a politician.
What are pikes and heads for? :lol:
Quote from: movenon on May 11, 2014, 01:55:40 AM
What are pikes and heads for? :lol:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants ."
― Thomas Jefferson
I think we are over due. Dave :yes:
Quote from: craigo on May 07, 2014, 09:45:28 PM
Quote from: Vsekvsek on May 07, 2014, 07:10:08 PM
Newsflash: Californias middle class leaving in droves. Californias lawmakers mystified why
The Torrance Toyota facility is moving to Texas next year. I wonder why?
And taking 4,000 or so jobs with them. What's left in Torrance is mostly administration and management and the PC line from Toyota is that they aren't leaving the state of California over regulation and taxes...they just need to be closer to manufacturing. Manufacturing left years ago over taxes and regulation. :dash2:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Toyota's official line was that they wanted a more centralized location for their mfg plant. But they did tell the employees they would have a better standard of living in Texas. Better schools, no state income tax, cheaper cost of living and they could buy 3x the house for 1/2 the price. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on May 11, 2014, 02:42:14 AM
Toyota's official line was that they wanted a more centralized location for their mfg plant. But they did tell the employees they would have a better standard of living in Texas. Better schools, no state income tax, cheaper cost of living and they could buy 3x the house for 1/2 the price. Dave
Dave,
Why is this so crystal clear to you and I...but seems a mystery to more than 1/2 the population of California? I bought a house in the San Fernando Valley north west of LA... in the last 13 years, I've seen HUGE chunks of land that were industrial...manufacturing...Panavision, Catalina Yachts, Rocketdyne, Aerospace...All move out of either state or country...and the old buildings are getting bulldozed and replaced with enormous condo/apartment complexes. Everyone wants to live here, but there is no longer any non-service oriented work here. Sad this.
WHEN I abandon California...Texas is one of the contenders. :good2:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Another excrement agitator, my kind of guy :good:
Quote from: simi_ed on May 11, 2014, 08:52:43 AM
Another excrement agitator, my kind of guy :good:
Yes I'm still stirring the shit and for the Oregon drivers its almost ready to eat. I said this "voluntary road tax" would wind up mandatory and it has. California's "voluntary road tax" won't be to far down the road (pun intended).Lower Gas Prices Can't Last – Soon You May Be Taxed for Every Mile You Drive
12/26/2014 - 8:00 AM EST From the Philadelphia Inquirer
NEW YORK ( MainStreet) — You knew the good news couldn't last. Low prices at the pump seem like a budget-saving end-of-the-year bonus for most of us. But because Americans are driving more fuel-efficient vehicles , the government is seeing drastically lower tax revenues. And they're going to find a way to make up the shortfall, by either increasing taxes on every precious drop of fuel – driving the price of gas back up – or by imposing a "mileage tax."
Federal and state taxes amount to about 50 cents per gallon, on average. And with Americans buying less gas, tax income is plummeting. The fact that cars are mandated to become even more fuel efficient in the years ahead, combined with the possibility of more drivers opting for electric or hybrid vehicles , is also fueling legislators' concern. More than a dozen states are seeking a solution that raises the ire of many drivers – a tax on the number of miles you drive. Oregon will be the first state out of the gate with such a mileage tax
Beginning in July, Oregon motorists will be charged 1.5 cents per mile in order to help span the gap of declining fuel taxes that support half of the state's budget to maintain and operate its highway system. The state is working to move from a fuel consumption-based tax system to a "road usage" revenue base tax.
Rush's song Red Barchetta springs to mind ..........................
Well that is going to suck, My service truck gets 7 mpg and I already pay a fuck-ton to the state for fuel. :ireful:
I thought they stopped this last year when they tried to pass it. Time to call my lobbyist.
Actually the Oregon per mile tax is voluntary starting July 1st. ODOT wants 5,000 volunteers to sign up for the program and have a GPS mileage tracking device installed in their vehicles. An alternative is to track by regular odometer readings.
Portland is working on a street privilege/usage tax to pay for road improvements. Never mind the fact our former gay, child molesting mayor stole all the road improvement/maintenance money along with the money for improvements and maintenance to the water and sewer systems to pay for bike lanes. Differed any and all road repairs and improvements for the four years he was in office. Water and sewer rates are expected to climb 80%+ over the next few years to put money back into repairs, upgrades, etc.
Texas Dave's quote is 100% true and we are very overdue....
Very interesting, I see california only has to wait a few more days and the price will rise over night.
http://cafuelfacts.com/cap-and-trade-for-fuels/ (http://cafuelfacts.com/cap-and-trade-for-fuels/)
http://www.californiadriversalliance.org/about/ (http://www.californiadriversalliance.org/about/) (this one has a petition that can be signed)
Just google cailfornia 2015 gas tax and there are hundreds of similar posts
Quote from: TexasDave on May 07, 2014, 03:03:34 PM
"...to make sure that we find out whether it would work, whether the public would like it or not," ..."this would be a voluntary program,"
Yes please, tax me more. No doubt I will like it just as much as my colonoscopy without anaethstetic. I would gladly volunteer, as soon as I'm finished with my other volunteer program of anthrax injections by the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases.
FFS - if one state does it, they will all do it. Cash cows don't recognise borders. Since when has a "voluntary" (let alone involuntary) tax ever been recinded? Remember that income tax was a "temporary" measure to pay for WW1. No doubt if the Ontario provincial government "up here" gets wind of this (and I'm sure they are wringing their hands in glee at the prospect of a new "green" measure) - we will probably have it legislated here before the Cali. program becomes law. Minus the "voluntary" phase. :hang1:
If Mayor Tommy Shanks was in charge, this would never fly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n245u_GB3c&index=54&list=PLjNKJ6bCc99SoAt60Q9psiHCjqvxOIbr3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n245u_GB3c&index=54&list=PLjNKJ6bCc99SoAt60Q9psiHCjqvxOIbr3)
Quote from: rusjel on May 11, 2014, 01:47:21 AM
I've considered joining an organised crime gang but have concluded that the only way to really get ahead of the system is to become a politician.
I was thinking about this just the other day, and decided I want to be a Senator. :yes:
Quote from: South Park Writers
Mayor: Yes! If I can show just how much I turned South Park around, I could become a Senator.
Aide 2: Maybe even a State Senator.
I'm now accepting campaign contributions via PayPal.
Steve