My FJ is running great. I have the factory-original handlebars, so it's a long reach over the tank for me. Now I want to try moving the hand-grips up and back by maybe 4 inches (10cm) or more. I know there are riser plates and other tricks, but I am open to all suggestions on the best ways to go about this mod, preferably without breaking the bank. Some extra width between hand-grips might be okay, but I would not want not too much more width. The old posts here show some older hardware, but if anything better is available now, I am game for that. If I need to get new hydraulic lines for this mod, I probably could live with that.
Any advice is welcome here.
Cheers,
Red
4" back is quite a bit...
If you're not stuck on this 4" measurement, why not try out the typical bar risers first? See if you like them.
Perhaps someone can lend you a set to try, before you purchase them?
"Without breaking the bank" is a subjective term which can mean anything. No help for us there.
To get the bars you want are you willing to spend $400? $200?.$80?
Quality handle bar conversion kits purchased off the shelf can be expensive. (e.g. Spiegler)
Especially depending on the handle bars you choose...you might need new clutch and brake lines...then again, might not...might need new longer throttle cables...might not.
Are you a DIY'er? Whatever you do, invest in quality motorcycle components...handlebars are kinda important.
In all cases, absolutely no mountain bike stuff.
Here is a set of off the shelf solid bar brackets, handle bar and brake lines. This should give you an idea of what can be done. Price is $340.81 delivered from Germany.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260708982283?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/260708982283?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648)
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o145/aviationfred/_576_zpsc2b4e6ca.jpg) (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/aviationfred/media/_576_zpsc2b4e6ca.jpg.html)
Once you get a set-up similar to this, you can play with handle bars of varied pull back and height to get the riding position you like.
Keep in mind as stated previously by Pat. If you get too radical, longer brake/clutch and throttle cables will be needed.
Fred
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 05, 2014, 05:43:26 PM4" back is quite a bit... If you're not stuck on this 4" measurement, why not try out the typical bar risers first? See if you like them. Perhaps someone can lend you a set to try, before you purchase them?" Without breaking the bank" is a subjective term which can mean anything. No help for us there.
To get the bars you want are you willing to spend $400? $200?.$80? In all cases, absolutely no mountain bike stuff.
Pat,
Yeah, that Spiegler's stuff would just about break the bank, here . . . but still maybe one good approach, as a concept. If anybody has hardware that I could try first, I'd be game, although I would not have asked for that much of a favor here. I may not need as much "lift" as 4" but I do not want to spend a fortune on a half-inch riser, either. I do not want to set a cost limit, but dollars count, so if somebody gives me choices, I would go for good engineering rather than the lowest possible prices.
Cheers,
Red
Hey mate, i wanted to bring my bars back too ,so what you can do is this
get a small offcut block of steel or alloy about 1/2 inch square & about 3/4 -1inch long ,then drill 1 end & counter sink it so the allen key head bolt is under the top surface it will screw into the thread in the triple tree so this becomes a 1/2 inch riser ,then put your bars on & bring them back to where you want them then drill & tap/ thread the other end of the block depending where you want the bars to be pulled back to and screw the allen bolt thru the original hole in your bars and into the new threaded block , you now have a new position to clamp your bars to .
1 thing to watch out for though ,make sure you can get full turn each way & your bars dont hit your tank
total cost almost zero ,can get parts at any hardware store .
If i could work out how to send a picture i could draw it & show you what i mean, its too easy to do
cheers Brian
Quote from: Brian on May 07, 2014, 05:45:55 AMHey mate, i wanted to bring my bars back too ,so what you can do is this
get a small offcut block of steel or alloy about 1/2 inch square & about 3/4 -1inch long ,then drill 1 end & counter sink it so the allen key head bolt is under the top surface it will screw into the thread in the triple tree so this becomes a 1/2 inch riser ,then put your bars on & bring them back to where you want them
If i could work out how to send a picture i could draw it & show you what i mean, its too easy to do
cheers Brian
Brian,
Check PM. That may be one good solution, if I can get enough change in the handlebars' position. All help is welcome. Thanks, mate.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: aviationfred on May 05, 2014, 05:59:51 PMHere is a set of off the shelf solid bar brackets, handle bar and brake lines. This should give you an idea of what can be done. Price is $340.81 delivered from Germany.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260708982283?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/260708982283?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648)
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/aviationfred/media/_576_zpsc2b4e6ca.jpg.html (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/aviationfred/media/_576_zpsc2b4e6ca.jpg.html)
Once you get a set-up similar to this, you can play with handle bars of varied pull back and height to get the riding position you like.
Keep in mind as stated previously by Pat. If you get too radical, longer brake/clutch and throttle cables will be needed.
Fred
Fred,
That Spiegler kit is probably the right thing for me, but I would not want their handlebars and hydraulic lines. $340 is more than I would hope to pay for just the parts that I need, and if I want different handlebars, their hydraulic lines may not fit, anyway. Any local hydraulic shop can make the custom-fitted braided hydraulic lines here, and they won't cost much.
Wish I could buy just the top plate and the handlebar clamps; any decent hardware manufacturer would suit me. That Spiegler stuff is fairly expensive, anyway. Thanks for the idea; for now, that plan would be the best way to go, for me. Is there anybody making hardware like that in the USA?
Cheers,
Red
Red,
I bought one of these by mistake. I have not installed it on the bike but I did mock up with a triple and forks and it went together fine.. I can get a measurement for you on the weekend.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-08-Yamaha-FZS600-FZ6-Top-Triple-Tree-Clamp-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-/231063226781 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-08-Yamaha-FZS600-FZ6-Top-Triple-Tree-Clamp-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-/231063226781)
As someone said...if there is no pic it did not happen:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/14152100143_b84e842c9b_z.jpg)
You can also see the FZ1 risers bolt on. Might be an option.
Jeff
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 07, 2014, 01:42:36 PMRed,
I bought one of these by mistake. I have not installed it on the bike but I did mock up with a triple and forks and it went together fine.. I can get a measurement for you on the weekend.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-08-Yamaha-FZS600-FZ6-Top-Triple-Tree-Clamp-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-/231063226781 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-08-Yamaha-FZS600-FZ6-Top-Triple-Tree-Clamp-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008-/231063226781)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/14152100143_b84e842c9b_z.jpg (https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2915/14152100143_b84e842c9b_z.jpg)
You can also see the FZ1 risers bolt on. Might be an option.
Jeff
Jeff,
Hey, those FZ1 stand-off posts just gave me an idea. I think those FZ1 stand-offs are too tall, and I would want two bolts holding the stand-off to the top plate, not just one. Now if we could find two-bolt stand-offs similar to the one in my picture, I could drill a stock FJ top plate to match, and mount handlebars to them. Does anybody have a suggestion there?
(http://user.xmission.com/~red/FJbarClamp.jpg)
The FJ top plate does have recesses underneath, but I can pack the recesses solid and smooth with fiberglass mat and epoxy. I would use the highest quality bolts, of course, with washers and locking nuts on the bottom. Advice and comments are welcome, here.
Cheers,
Red
I'm definitely not a metallurgist...or a mechanical engineer, but looking at the FZ1 top clamp:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_37_0.bmp)
It sure looks like a lot of effort was made to distribute load into the aluminum... Appears to be a sleeved steel insert...with rubber bushing material cushioning the inner steel sleeve which then takes the bolt.
Looking at it from the underside:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_40_1.bmp)
There is a *lot* of aluminum casting there to support those inserts. It looks like measures were taken to strengthen the aluminum substantially AND avoid any steel bolt to aluminum movement/contact.
Not calling this one at all because I'm not qualified and I'm a bit afraid to...but I probably wouldn't ride yours if you do end up doing it. :nea:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Red,
The FZ1 riser raise the bars slightly more than the stock FJ. Check out the FZ6 or the FZ8. They both use the same rubber mounted (that's a good thing) approach but the risers are not so tall.
Regards,
Jeff
Remember that the FJ 1200's use 41mm forks and the early model FZ1's have 43mm forks. I'm not sure you can clamp a 41mm fork into a 43mm bore unless you use something to take up that 2mm space.
Eric M
Quote from: Yamifj1200 on May 07, 2014, 06:24:52 PM
Remember that the FJ 1200's use 41mm forks and the early model FZ1's have 43mm forks. I'm not sure you can clamp a 41mm fork into a 43mm bore unless you use something to take up that 2mm space.
Eric M
Eric,
Thanks, I do have the smaller fork tubes, and I would not even
try to shim them to fit. Great catch! That saves me some real heartburn, there. Much appreciated!
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: Capn Ron on May 07, 2014, 05:43:27 PM
I'm definitely not a metallurgist...or a mechanical engineer, but looking at the FZ1 top clamp:
http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_37_0.bmp (http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_37_0.bmp)
It sure looks like a lot of effort was made to distribute load into the aluminum... Appears to be a sleeved steel insert...with rubber bushing material cushioning the inner steel sleeve which then takes the bolt. Looking at it from the underside:
http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_40_1.bmp (http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_40_1.bmp)
There is a *lot* of aluminum casting there to support those inserts. It looks like measures were taken to strengthen the aluminum substantially AND avoid any steel bolt to aluminum movement/contact. Not calling this one at all because I'm not qualified and I'm a bit afraid to...but I probably wouldn't ride yours if you do end up doing it. :nea:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Cap'n Ron:
Your concerns are noted, with thanks. I really think the FZs are asking
a lot from that single-bolt mount. I plan to fill all the recesses underneath the top plate with industrial epoxy and fiberglass matting. I will add the metal inserts (bushings) for the through-bolts, like those in the FZ top plate; I appreciate your input. I will add an aluminum plate to the bottom of the FJ plate, of respectable thickness, bonded to the underside of the top plate with no voids. To me, "engineering" is the art of using no more material than what is needed for the loads applied. I have NO such ambitions here, but I will have a reliable structure when finished. With four through-bolts to carry the stresses, not two, I think this project will be sufficiently "over-engineered" even for my cautious nature. If not, I will still have an un-drilled factory top plate, to backtrack the bike into stock form again.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: jscgdunn on May 07, 2014, 05:51:56 PMRed,
The FZ1 riser raise the bars slightly more than the stock FJ. Check out the FZ6 or the FZ8. They both use the same rubber mounted (that's a good thing) approach but the risers are not so tall.
Regards,
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for that, only I want the stand-offs to carry two bolts each, so I need to find something a little better than the FZs' hardware.
Still lookin' for the right stuff, here . . .
Cheers,
Red
As I was re-reading this thread and taking a look at the underside of my top clamp, there does seem to be room to work in a steel sleeve in your plan. The top of the plate is at two levels, so you'll have to work that into whatever clamp design you work out as well.
Could you use a West System epoxy on the underside utilizing steel fibers instead of fiberglass? Pulling apart steel wool should suffice. Also, cross-hatching the aluminum structure on the underside will promote a good bond.
Sounds like you could engineer in enough of a safety margin here. At first pass, I was picturing four drilled holes with 6mm through bolts! :shok:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: Capn Ron on May 07, 2014, 10:09:46 PM
As I was re-reading this thread and taking a look at the underside of my top clamp, there does seem to be room to work in a steel sleeve in your plan. The top of the plate is at two levels, so you'll have to work that into whatever clamp design you work out as well.
Could you use a West System epoxy on the underside utilizing steel fibers instead of fiberglass? Pulling apart steel wool should suffice. Also, cross-hatching the aluminum structure on the underside will promote a good bond.
Sounds like you could engineer in enough of a safety margin here. At first pass, I was picturing four drilled holes with 6mm through bolts! :shok:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Cap'n Ron,
I would expect West Systems to have a good grade of epoxy for this project. The top plate is aluminum, so I could use aluminum matting, to avoid dis-similar metals there. I would strip the under-surface to bare metal, for a secure bond. Rather than 6mm bolts, I was planning to use AN-4 or AN-5 aircraft bolts (I fly hang gliders). The yield strength on
that steel is almost unbelievable, and those bolts will bend, before they break.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: red on May 08, 2014, 12:05:46 AM
Cap'n Ron,
I would expect West Systems to have a good grade of epoxy for this project. The top plate is aluminum, so I could use aluminum matting, to avoid dis-similar metals there. I would strip the under-surface to bare metal, for a secure bond. Rather than 6mm bolts, I was planning to use AN-4 or AN-5 aircraft bolts (I fly hang gliders). The yield strength on that steel is almost unbelievable, and those bolts will bend, before they break.
Cheers,
Red
Hey Red,
I've taken a liking to your project...mostly because I like doing things that most people say can't be done. Sometimes (and most times on this forum), I'm well out-classed on the experience front and should really listen to those that have gone before me who say it's a no-go. Outside of that, I take on a "how hard can this be?" attitude and set about solving things. Sometimes I fail...but slightly more often than not, I succeed. In all cases, I learn....and I apply that to the next project. Priceless!
I like your thinking on aluminum fibers to avoid the dissimilar metals problem. Whenever I put aluminum on the drill press, I should start saving the long spiral strands! At some point, you will have steel sleeves, but if all is encased in epoxy, galvanic corrosion is not likely to be an issue. I'm also encouraged by the fact that you fly hang gliders...You clearly know the value of the strength of a single bolt in the grand scheme of your well-being. :good2:
When I was around 15, I went up to a local mountain in Upstate New York to take a hang gliding lesson. There was some momentary lapse in my parent's protective side and I took full advantage of this. When I got there, I was told it was too windy to proceed and to come back the next weekend. By then, my parents had come to their "parental" senses and it was a no-go. Throughout my life, I have dabbled in flight here and there...Cessna 172s...even a Robinson R-22, but I truly believe that if the weather was calmer that first day...and I caught the wind in the wing of a hang glider, my life...and career...would have been aviation centric.
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: Capn Ron on May 08, 2014, 01:04:46 AM
Quote from: red on May 08, 2014, 12:05:46 AMCap'n Ron,
I would expect West Systems to have a good grade of epoxy for this project. The top plate is aluminum, so I could use aluminum matting, to avoid dis-similar metals there. I would strip the under-surface to bare metal, for a secure bond. Rather than 6mm bolts, I was planning to use AN-4 or AN-5 aircraft bolts (I fly hang gliders). The yield strength on that steel is almost unbelievable, and those bolts will bend, before they break.
Cheers,
Red
Hey Red,
I've taken a liking to your project...mostly because I like doing things that most people say can't be done.
I like your thinking on aluminum fibers to avoid the dissimilar metals problem. Whenever I put aluminum on the drill press, I should start saving the long spiral strands! At some point, you will have steel sleeves, but if all is encased in epoxy, galvanic corrosion is not likely to be an issue. I'm also encouraged by the fact that you fly hang gliders...You clearly know the value of the strength of a single bolt in the grand scheme of your well-being. :good2:
When I was around 15, I went up to a local mountain in Upstate New York to take a hang gliding lesson. When I got there, I was told it was too windy to proceed and to come back the next weekend. By then, my parents had come to their "parental" senses and it was a no-go. Throughout my life, I have dabbled in flight here and there...Cessna 172s...even a Robinson R-22, but I truly believe that if the weather was calmer that first day...and I caught the wind in the wing of a hang glider, my life...and career...would have been aviation centric.
Cap'n Ron. . .
Cap'n Ron,
Aluminum matting comes as aluminum-wool (the aluminum version of steel wool), and even as woven scrubbing pads (used by the corrosion-control guys). After some thought, I can use solid aluminum as bushing stock as well, so the only steel will be in the bolts. AN bolts (the aircraft standard) are cadmium-plated, so they will get along very nicely with aluminum, and hey, I cheat; I car-wax the AN bolts as an extra defense against moisture and abrasion.
Yeah, it's safe to say, flying has "ruined" my life :good2: and it has unexpected dangers; you may walk into a pole, while watching the clouds (BTDT). They say, one day you have to decide whether to grow up, or to be a pilot, because you can't do both. :biggrin: Sounds like you went to Ellenville, which is known for wild winds at times. When the winds are good, though, that place is amazing. I moved to the Rockies (the Wasatch Range) early on, and never looked back. Now we can fly on a par with the eagles and hawks, in silence. In the gentle lifting air of a mountain evening (when they have the kids fed), they will sometimes fly in formation with us.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: Capn Ron on May 07, 2014, 05:43:27 PM
I'm definitely not a metallurgist...or a mechanical engineer, but looking at the FZ1 top clamp:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_37_0.bmp)
It sure looks like a lot of effort was made to distribute load into the aluminum... Appears to be a sleeved steel insert...with rubber bushing material cushioning the inner steel sleeve which then takes the bolt.
Looking at it from the underside:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/697_07_05_14_4_32_40_1.bmp)
There is a *lot* of aluminum casting there to support those inserts. It looks like measures were taken to strengthen the aluminum substantially AND avoid any steel bolt to aluminum movement/contact.
Not calling this one at all because I'm not qualified and I'm a bit afraid to...but I probably wouldn't ride yours if you do end up doing it. :nea:
Cap'n Ron. . .
While I share the good Captain's concern for structural integrity, and for that reason question relying on two screws to take the load as some of the proposals require, I suspect that the webbing issue noted is more a weight saving thing than a load distribution thing. The top could have been cast as a sold piece had Yamaha so chosen.
On an older thread a member welded up those webbings on his top clamp (making it a solid piece) and drilled it to take "standard" perches for 7/8" bars, which allows total freedom of choice for the bars. New clutch/brake/throttle lines are required to get substantial change.
Keep in mind that any significant change in riding position will probably put the rider out of the wind protection zone provided by the stock fairing. Having just mounted the Power Bronze Flip screen - which is at the top end of the "bolt on" wind screens for added wind protection - I suspect that much change in bar location trades one comfort issue for another, potentially much more expensive one.
The "whole enchilada" of dialing in a personal comfort zone could be pricey and it will change the character of the FJ. That's the route that I'm taking but with cost eyes open.
At under a hundred bucks total, while far from ideal, the 3/4" you get from RPM's risers is very probably the off-the-shelf best bang for the buck.
Quote from: red on May 08, 2014, 08:36:37 AM
Aluminum matting comes as aluminum-wool (the aluminum version of steel wool), and even as woven scrubbing pads (used by the corrosion-control guys). After some thought, I can use solid aluminum as bushing stock as well, so the only steel will be in the bolts. AN bolts (the aircraft standard) are cadmium-plated, so they will get along very nicely with aluminum, and hey, I cheat; I car-wax the AN bolts as an extra defense against moisture and abrasion.
Sounds like you've got a good handle on this! I deal with corrosion issues on a regular basis in the salt water environment of the Pacific Ocean and anything you can do to help the cause will make a difference! I never thought about aluminum wool, but it makes sense...I have brass, bronze and stainless steel wool in the shop.
Quote from: red on May 08, 2014, 08:36:37 AM
Sounds like you went to Ellenville, which is known for wild winds at times. I moved to the Rockies (the Wasatch Range) early on, and never looked back. Now we can fly on a par with the eagles and hawks, in silence. In the gentle lifting air of a mountain evening (when they have the kids fed), they will sometimes fly in formation with us.
Cheers,
Red
Flying with the birds sounds idyllic and I'm quite familiar with the Wasatch Range! My girlfriend's family is up in Morgan County and I'm actually riding there right after the WCR. My missed moment in the air was in the tiny town of Greenwich, NY, well above Albany...I think it was just a few guys that got together every weekend and wanted to introduce more people to flying.
I get my dose of Bernoulli Effect on the sailboat and there's a moment...after you've set the boat up...motored out of the harbor...picked a point of sail and then shut down the diesel. It's a very calming moment and even after all these years, it still has an awe about it.
Back on topic...I see that you're looking to get a spare top triple clamp to mess around with. I replaced mine a few years ago during a rebuild because a previous owner drilled holes in it (for mounting switches). I just looked on Ebay and wow they are going cheap with a lot to pick from! We'll expect pictures of this endeavor. :yes:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Is it possible that all that engineered strength in the top yoke is for the load the forks apply to it and not the handlebars? The most load the bars ever see is manoeuvring around the garage.
Those rubber sleeved collars with single mount bolts were popular back in the 70's. One pissy little screw holding the bars on. I don't recall any falling off.
Think about how much load you put on the bars, yes their role is important but I don't think the mounts need to be overly robust to do the job safely.
Noel
I think I put a LOT more force on the top triple when riding downhill, passenger in place and decelerating from a but too much throttle. I sure feel the load in my shoulder & arms, and I know I cannot grip the tank that hard. I started to worry about that shitty little 6mm bolt shearing (anti-rotation bolt in the bars) until I realized there's also the clamp of the bars to the fork tubes.