Has anybody removed the cylinder head with out removing the engine from the frame?
Also are there any tricks or tips for separating the head from the cylinder block.
I ask this because i have a spare engine I tried to take the head off of. it came with the deal when I got the bike. I have tried prying and hammering, the head is about 1 inch above the cylinder block and seems to be stuck. it's unfortunate that it apears i have damaged the head and broke a few cooling fins on the cylinder block.
You have removed the nuts down at the head gasket line?
I've removed my head twice with the engine in the frame. It can be done.
Yup, it's doable. Sounds like it's cocked sideways slightly or you've got the gasket stuck to the studs at the front and rear of the head. Put the hammer away and look carefully at it, it should come off pretty easily but only if it's dead straight and not hitting anything. There's also some wiring clips on the frame that can get in the way.
It's actually almost easier just to pull the motor. It's heavy and it's a lot of crap to remove to get access, but it means that you can see what you're doing and you don't tend to break stuff.
Quote from: Baycruzer on April 23, 2014, 06:50:22 PM
the head is about 1 inch above the cylinder block and seems to be stuck.
Was it ever a Legends car or race car engine?
If so, you can only get the head off by removing the case stud(s) of the exhaust side towards the left.
Randy - RPM
Thank you for that Randy.
I don't know the engines history, but that is how it is acting. I will try to put the head back on and pull the studs.
While you're here can you give me an idea what a vavle jobe would cost. The #2 cylinder #1 exhaust valve seat has come out of the head.
Some of this advice seems to ignore the fact that he has already raised it an inch.
I reckon andyb has identified the most likely culprit, it's cocked a bit.
Knock the head down until it is loose again, get a hand under each end and rock gently it as you lift it. While it could be many things, the most likely, if you are unfamiliar with this operation, is simply getting it jammed on the studs by not lifting it squarely.
I assume you have removed the camshafts.
Also, you should be able to see and feel if there is something actually stopping it coming off, that is, does it feel like it's just catching in one spot or has it jammed rock solid.
Start with the simple and obvious and if that doesn't work, move on to less likely causes.
Noel
I just pulled one....the gasket did present the most resistance sticking on the front and back studs that fasten the head to the barrels.
Jeff
Quote from: ribbert on April 24, 2014, 02:15:27 AM
Some of this advice seems to ignore the fact that he has already raised it an inch.
Yep, my bad. Need to work on on that reading comprehension thing.
I think my brain was screaming at the prying and hammering comment and completely missed the 1 inch fact. I got back in gear at about "...seems to be stuck." Then I started typing.
Quote from: Baycruzer on April 24, 2014, 01:35:50 AM
Thank you for that Randy.
I don't know the engines history, but that is how it is acting. I will try to put the head back on and pull the studs.
While you're here can you give me an idea what a vavle jobe would cost. The #2 cylinder #1 exhaust valve seat has come out of the head.
Well, by the sounds of things I am reading, this was a car engine at one point or it just got really hot for a very long time as a bike engine. The valve seat(s) commonly fall out of those cylinder heads due to excessive heat. That excessive heat also distorts the aluminum of the head studs. Since the stud has a reduced shank, the aluminum distorts to the reduced shank and then the threaded portion of the stud will not fit through anymore.
As far as the valve job, there is just no way of knowing. That head might not be worth fixing as if two seats have fallen out, there are more likely in the future. Plus if the seat had previously sunk into the head, custom valve seat(s) must be made as the stock seat is no longer "tall" enough. The you will have some port work ahead to remove the displace aluminum on the port.
Sure, the gasket could be a problem as well, but if you hold the gasket up against the head as you are removing it, they come right off.
Keep us posted.
Randy - RPM
just so we are clear here, I am talking about 2 different engines.
The engine in my bike, one valve seat has come out.
The engine I can't get the head off of, a spare engine that came with the bike when I bought it.
So I gather that I'm going to have to remove the head and bring it to Randy to see if it can be repaired. Plus side I get to see the store - gota keep it positive right!
The deal I got was 2 bikes and a bunch of parts with 2 extra engines. most of the parts were left out in the weather at some point and are not much more than collections of rust. one engine was mostly taken apart. This is the one I tried to take the head off of, it is wasted. cylinders rusted, can't get the head off. I'm going to get rid of it.
The story I was given on the second bike is that it overheated, so by what I'm hearing here it's trash too. Keep in mind it was left outside also, carbs, plugs and clutch cover removed.
That leaves the other engine, I have no history on. It however is mostly corroded on the outside, I can't turn it with a wrench.
With luck one of these will donate a useable head to the cause.
Ugh, oh dear, oh dear... Good luck. :dash2:
Quote from: Baycruzer on April 26, 2014, 08:17:00 PM
just so we are clear here, I am talking about 2 different engines.
The engine in my bike, one valve seat has come out.
The engine I can't get the head off of, a spare engine that came with the bike when I bought it.
So I gather that I'm going to have to remove the head and bring it to Randy to see if it can be repaired. Plus side I get to see the store - gota keep it positive right!
The deal I got was 2 bikes and a bunch of parts with 2 extra engines. most of the parts were left out in the weather at some point and are not much more than collections of rust. one engine was mostly taken apart. This is the one I tried to take the head off of, it is wasted. cylinders rusted, can't get the head off. I'm going to get rid of it.
The story I was given on the second bike is that it overheated, so by what I'm hearing here it's trash too. Keep in mind it was left outside also, carbs, plugs and clutch cover removed.
That leaves the other engine, I have no history on. It however is mostly corroded on the outside, I can't turn it with a wrench.
With luck one of these will donate a useable head to the cause.
ok, here is a little trick I learned about locked engines.. Remove the spark plugs and pour a 1/4 cup of oil in each cylinder and let it soak over night.. New or used oil can be used just as ok if its not too black... If it still won't turn over, ditch the engine cuz it ain't worth the hassle to rebuild unless u have the time and money:)...
An added not to the below post is you might have to beg, borrow, steal what is called a "breaker bar"... "Really long ratchet type bar with a 1/2' size socket attachment" ... Your local car parts store will have one... Once u got one, attach it to the bolt that holds the pickup coil and rotate the engine as if tightening the bolt... You might have to use your upper body strength for this to work... Eventually the pistons will become unstuck allowing the engine to be easily "overhauled" or repaired...
All of which is sorta useless if the head is stuck in place on it.
My next question would be is the head being takin off with the engine in the bike?
That's a loaded question.
The engine I tried to remove the head from is on my garage floor, and going to the metal recyclers on Tuesday.
The engine for my motorcycle is still in it, I haven't tried to take it apart yet. I was considering removing the head while still in the frame. Randy is saying that overheating is usually what causes the valve seat to come out. There are other things that happen to the head in that situation. The holes shrinking around the studs could present a real challenge in this case as well.
Something else Randy said kinda has me worried now. when I got the bike I was told it lost power. one of the first things I checked was the valve clearance. All of the valves were tight, 7 of the 8 exhaust valves were riding the cam when closed. So the possibility is the seats have sunk into the head, lets hope the last engine hasn't been so roughly treated.
Ok... So the head that you wanted is the one you can't get of?? Do you have a sawsall, or a grinder?
It might be time to just bring everything over so we can get things sorted.
Don't junk that engine yet, you might need something from it...
Randy - RPM
That's what I'm sayin... Don't give up yet... :empathy: "if there is a will, there is a way" :good2:
Quote from: Baycruzer on April 28, 2014, 12:34:10 AM
The engine I tried to remove the head from is on my garage floor, and going to the metal recyclers on Tuesday.
Another thing, that old engine might be good for the FJ cause, especially since someone just ventilated a crank case...
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11551.msg114468#msg114468 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=11551.msg114468#msg114468)
Because Chris is going to make an attempt at Bonneville and is now going to have to install the engine he planned on using at Bonneville in his daily rider, so now he has to sort out another engine and your spare stuff would work great for that.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=10720.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=10720.0)
Do not scrap that engine...
Randy - RPM
OK, so I still have all of it.
The engine with the head stuck on it, I checked the numbers and it is an 86 1200. The cases had been separated when I got it, all of the transmission has been removed, some of which is in the box of rusty parts. The crank, rods and pistons are still installed. can't promise condition.
I did break some of the cooling fins on the rear of the cylinder block, left side. I still have the pieces, could be welded if somebody knows how.
The head seems to be stuck on 2 of the studs between the #1 and #2 cylinders. At this point I'm going to leave it alone. offer it up to see if someone can use it or wants it.
OK, so I grew a hair and pulled the head off of my motorcycle engine. What a completely different experience this was. All it took was a light tap with a rubber mallet to loosen the gasket and lift it off, no damage, no fighting.
Next is a trip to RPM to see if it can be fixed and to drop off the spare cases.
Awesome.... Let us know how it goes:)
Got the head to Randy. He says caused by PO not adjusting the valves, he can fix it.
Great news he was able to fix it:).. I've noticed with that type of valves u have to check them once in a while... Hopefully he does fix it:)...
Picked up my head from RMP yesterday. Randy did a beautiful job on it, it`s now the best looking part on it. Today I put on the head and reassembled the rest of the bike, got it running but for some reason the carbs are all out of sync. Must be because I synced them with the three burnt valves.
Sorry it has taken so long to get back on this.
I have put the bike back together, cleaned the carbs, bike runs like a champ. I am super happy with how it has worked out. There will be some new questions asked soon, I will start a new subject for them as they are not related to this one.
thanks for all the support, lets go ride!
Right on! :good: