Hi guys.
Went for å drive today, and at the end of my trip i noticed some weird sounds coming from the back.
Got home, put the bike on the center stand and turned the rear wheel around. I can't describe the sound so i recorded a video.
I don't dare drive until i know what it is.
Check the video:
https://youtu.be/nEEMLJ7pGxY (https://youtu.be/nEEMLJ7pGxY)
Probably wheel (or cush drive) bearing.
Grab the wheel and/or sprocket and see how much play you have in it.
Ken, make sure your rear brakes are not dragging and not down to metal. Your chain looks lubed. Are there any places that you can see rubbing that would cause that sound? Chain guard, some piece of crap picked up on your last ride. Bearings normally make a grinding noise when they fail but it could be a bad bearing. If you don't see any external cause then I would take the wheel off and check for internal causes. See if you can narrow down where the noise is coming from with a poor mechanics stethoscope. A short piece of garden hose held up to your ear, move the other end around to different parts of the rear wheel while it is making that noise. When the noise heard from inside the hose is the loudest, then the end of the hose is closest to the source.
Quote from: not a lib on April 11, 2014, 01:47:48 PM
Probably wheel (or cush drive) bearing.
Grab the wheel and/or sprocket and see how much play you have in it.
Hmm... I will check and se if theres any play, but they should be torqued down so ther shoulden't be any...
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 11, 2014, 01:53:31 PM
Ken, make sure your rear brakes are not dragging and not down to metal. Your chain looks lubed. Are there any places that you can see rubbing that would cause that sound? Chain guard, some piece of crap picked up on your last ride. Bearings normally make a grinding noise when they fail but it could be a bad bearing. If you don't see any external cause then I would take the wheel off and check for internal causes. See if you can narrow down where the noise is coming from with a poor mechanics stethoscope. A short piece of garden hose held up to your ear, move the other end around to different parts of the rear wheel while it is making that noise. When the noise heard from inside the hose is the loudest, then the end of the hose is closest to the source.
I will try to remove the rear brake caliper, I'l have to rebuild the master cylinder anyway. The bearings are all new, but one could never be sure..
I have noticed that my chain guard has been hitting the rim, and some of the plastick have been worn of, but cant see if that could make a sound like this.. It sounds like its from the inside the rim, or bearings area...
Oh, and by the way.... I really am looking forward to clean that dirty rim :good2: :wacko3: :wacko3: :wacko3:
Cheers
I have heard it before. Undo the clothes pin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0fzzuxTBc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0fzzuxTBc)
Ken,
That is a bad bearing...
Do I recall you having to alter the length of the internal spacer(s) for that wheel?
Randy - RPM
My best guess is...... :scratch_one-s_head:
It sounds like the possibly the left hand wheel bearing could be bad. You may not be able to hear any grinding, due to the bearing being covered by the sprocket carrier. As for the noise you do hear. With the bearing being bad, the rubber cush drive is sliding around and squeaking as the wheel rotates.
Fred
Quote from: keand3 on April 11, 2014, 02:00:36 PM
The bearings are all new, but one could never be sure..
Can you describe your bearing installation process? Hammer, press?
If you put excess force on the inner race during installation that could cause premature failure.
Quote from: keand3 on April 11, 2014, 02:00:36 PM
Quote from: not a lib on April 11, 2014, 01:47:48 PM
Probably wheel (or cush drive) bearing.
Grab the wheel and/or sprocket and see how much play you have in it.
Hmm... I will check and se if theres any play, but they should be torqued down so ther shoulden't be any...
The torque on the axle nut has nothing to do with a bad bearing....unless your inner spacer is too short.
As Randy questions, is the inner spacer the correct factory spacer for the rear rim? Positive?
If so, and the bearings are new (inc. the cush drive)....then you have to question your installation technique.
Regardless....time for new bearings..
Quote from: jscgdunn on April 11, 2014, 02:12:47 PM
I have heard it before. Undo the clothes pin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0fzzuxTBc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs0fzzuxTBc)
:rofl2:
Sorry for late reply guys, been busy with the bike.
Randy: No, the internal spacer is original. That's the one sitting between the bearings you mean, right?
Fred: The sound seems to originated from the left side of the wheel, and it could be the bearing on the sprocket carrier since i didn't replace that, it came new with the carrier.
I did notice when i tourque it to spec it notice to sound and as soon as i released it some it stopped. I took the wheel of and focused on the left side and noticed something peculiar. Either it seems like the left bearing isen't installed all the way in, or the is the wrong inner spacer. I could take my finger and wiggle the spacer around and that's not right.
I am hammering the bearing in with a piece of wood that press the entire bearings OD. I do remember when installing that i heard the distinctive sound when the bearings seats thevrims edge.
The inner spacer wasn't loose when i installed it the first time, but i could have been sloppy and not noticed. I will need to check tomorrow with the other spacers that i got to see which length they are. Fzr spacer should be longer, right?
Wood is not good for bearing install. It compresses where it gets the most resistance and, then transfers the load to the center race of the bearing, side loading it. Better to find a piece of pipe that is just under the major diameter as a punch. Some flat plates and some all-thread with nuts and you have a press. Or use a punch/drift with a small enough tip to tap the bearing in little by little. Constantly moving around the diameter to prevent the bearing from going in all catywompis. It takes more time than having the proper size punch, but it works and does a proper job.
....and put the bearings in a plastic baggie, then pop them into the freezer the night before the install.
....then warm up the bearing race (on rim) with a heat gun....not too hot, not scalding, just very warm.
Every little bit helps....
+1 with what Pat mentioned about putting the bearings in the freezer overnight and heating the wheel. When driving press fit bearings, you want the driver to only apply force to the outer bearing race.
This is what I have to drive wheel bearings.
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-bearing-race-and-seal-driver-set-95853.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-bearing-race-and-seal-driver-set-95853.html)
Fred
Quote from: keand3 on April 11, 2014, 05:58:22 PM
Sorry for late reply guys, been busy with the bike. I am hammering the bearing in with a piece of wood that press the entire bearings OD. I do remember when installing that i heard the distinctive sound when the bearings seats thevrims edge.
Ken,
You can use an old socket, the same size as the outer race, as the correct-sized "punch" to drive the bearing into place. Put your piece of wood on top of the old socket and hit the wood, to avoid transferring the hard hammer-shots to the metal of the bearing race. The correct-sized socket should just fit (closely) inside the wheel hub, where the bearing will live, before you begin installation.
Cheers,
Red
Get the old bearing and skim the outer race on a belt sander, bench grinder, angle grinder, anything. You only need to remove a whisker so it's a loose fit, then use that to drive the new bearing in. Only takes a few seconds and you have the perfect size tool.
Monkey is right about the wood putting some of the load on the centre race and is best avoided.
In most cases the axle spacer will be loose with the bearings properly seated.
Freezing / heating, special tools, giant sockets (if you have one that big) etc. all work but makes more of a job of it than it needs to be, they knock it in without much effort.
Noel
I also use the old socket method, will try again tomorrow and see if can get the bearing further in. I just hope that is the right one spacer that I've got. Don't was ruin new and perfectly good bearings if ı don't have to..
Cheers
Ken
Quote from: keand3 on April 11, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
I also use the old socket method, will try again tomorrow and see if can get the bearing further in. I just hope that is the right one spacer that I've got. Don't was ruin new and perfectly good bearings if ı don't have to..
Cheers
Ken
Bearings don't heal and get better when we fix the problem.... You can't un-fuck them... So I hope you meant trying to install new ones... Right? Nothing but love my friend Ken...
Sounds like steel against rubber, (maybe).
Check the carrier blades and rubber buffer thingys.
Much more likely to be one of the bearings, but that's a wierd sound for any of them to be making.
Any chance the tire is rubbing against something?
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 11, 2014, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: keand3 on April 11, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
I also use the old socket method, will try again tomorrow and see if can get the bearing further in. I just hope that is the right one spacer that I've got. Don't was ruin new and perfectly good bearings if ı don't have to..
Cheers
Ken
Bearings don't heal and get better when we fix the problem.... You can't un-fuck them... So I hope you meant trying to install new ones... Right? Nothing but love my friend Ken...
Ken,
The FJmonkey is correct. My comment was aimed at the installation of the
NEXT new bearings, not at the noisy ones that you have now. If axle-nut torque causes so much noise, the bearings (that you just installed) have been side-loaded in a way that has ruined them now. Please replace those noisy bearings with two new bearings, before they can do serious damage to you or the machine.
Cheers,
Red
Quote from: FJmonkey on April 11, 2014, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: keand3 on April 11, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
I also use the old socket method, will try again tomorrow and see if can get the bearing further in. I just hope that is the right one spacer that I've got. Don't was ruin new and perfectly good bearings if ı don't have to..
Cheers
Ken
Bearings don't heal and get better when we fix the problem.... You can't un-fuck them... So I hope you meant trying to install new ones... Right? Nothing but love my friend Ken...
Hehe... Yes i meant new ones :smile:
With Easter just around the corner, and we being a "metric country" and all there isn't a store that's open during Easter. So im in a hurry to find some correct bearings today, Monday or Tuesday...
I'll need to measure the inner spacer to so that I'm surtain is the FZR spacer.
Quote from: red on April 11, 2014, 10:45:35 PM
Bearings don't heal and get better when we fix the problem.... You can't un-fuck them... So I hope you meant trying to install new ones... Right? Nothing but love my friend Ken...
Ken,
The FJmonkey is correct. My comment was aimed at the installation of the
NEXT new bearings, not at the noisy ones that you have now. If axle-nut torque causes so much noise, the bearings (that you just installed) have been side-loaded in a way that has ruined them now. Please replace those noisy bearings with two new bearings, before they can do serious damage to you or the machine.
Cheers,
Red
[/quote]
Okey, finally its day time over here, and I am awake to read the threads more thoroughly. I see that I have been explaining my own processes rather poorly :dash2: :dash2:
Installment:
I am aware of not hitting the inner ring so I am using an old socket gently on the bearings. This is how I installed the bearings on my rim.
The sprocket carrier came from DOC i FJ UK Club with a new bearing in, so in times of desperation (a sick FJ equals a desperate time!! :yes: ) i grabbed a wood (
NO JOKES :lol:) tried to seat it better. I noticed it looked like it was not all the way in. So realizing that the wood thing was kinda stupid I replaced the bearing on the sprocket carrier. Had one spare from the All Balls kit i bought since it was allready installed.
I took a closer look at the bearings on the rim, and the seems to be properly installed and working like the should. Can't really find any thing odd as of now.
I mounted the rim back on, but this time around I used the spacer for the disc side that came withe kit, 12mm spacer. (some of you might remember the clearings issues i had withe the caliper on this) As of now, I am not able to recreate the sound any more when i spin the wheel. But I haven't been able to torque the axle nut to 150nm, or 110 ft lb if you like, as the manual says so I have to wait for a helping hand, before I can see if the sound apearse again on propper torque..
I find all of this rather strange... Replacing bearings, taking wheel on and off should be a pretty straight forward, and I can't find any obviuse foult in my working methode. But I Im surtain you guys will be able to spot the "gorilla" :rofl2:
The Monkey Business Illusion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY#ws)
Damn it.. It really is annoying. The sound is still there and i can't for the life of my find out what it is.
I have ordered new bearings that arrives on Tuesday, so i removed the "old" bearings today. All but one. The bearing on the disc side is stuck, completely stuck and my bearing removal tool did not manage to get it out. I might need have a shop press it out. Perhaps that's the reason? That i might have installed it slightly offset, causing it to be flush with the rim?
I will get the new bearings machine pressed on theis time around. But i did noticed something else too. Quit peculiar if you ask me.
I liked at my old sprocket carrier and found to my surprise a part that i don't have on my new sprocket carrier, the 36Y-25377-00-00 COLLAR,WHEEL.
This might be a stupid question, but this part did not follow with the new carrier i bought, so i figured i bought it as "plug and play" and haven't even consider it until now.
Im guessing its needed, but any one with the fzr mod that could enlightened me, or anyone with the knowledge on it.
Cheers
The has to be a spacer between the cush drive bearing and the left wheel bearing.
If not when you torque down the axle the inner races are not held center in the outer race and it ruins the bearing in short order.
You also have the spacer between the two wheel in the wheel correct?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 13, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
The has to be a spacer between the cush drive bearing and the left wheel bearing.
If not when you torque down the axle the inner races are not held center in the outer race and it ruins the bearing in short order.
You also have the spacer between the two wheel in the wheel correct?
Randy - RPM
:dash2: :dash2: :dash2: :dash2:
F&%#&% No wonder things diden't add up..
Randy, yes I have the spacer's on both side. Not sure what you mean with
"You also have the spacer between the two wheel in the wheel correct?" (my english might be off....)
But I have the spacers on the right (disc) side between the bearing and caliper tourque arm, the inner spacer and the left spacer between the cush drive bearing and swingarm...
Damn I feel stupid right now... How it is possible to ignore a crusial part like that?? :dash1: :dash1: :crazy: :crazy:
Well, hopefully next time I install the rear wheel,
with the wheel collar between cushdrive bearing and wheel bearing, the sound is hopfully not there anymore..
Nothing else to say but leasson learned... :pardon: :pardon: :flag_of_truce: :flag_of_truce:
Thanks for the info Randy...
I think the part that Randy mentioned is Number 12 in the drawing. http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1990/FZR1000A/REAR+WHEEL/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1990/FZR1000A/REAR+WHEEL/parts.html)
I could not remember if you have a FZR1000 or a GSXR rear wheel. Both have a similar spacer. An easy item to leave out when assembling the wheel. I did forgot to install mine after I had the wheel powder coated. The sprocket carrier would not seat into the wheel correctly with out the spacer.
Fred
Yes, it's the past nr 12 :smile:
I have the FZR1000 wheel on the back so the part is interchangeable, luckily :good2:
Will be sure to get it on when i have gotten the new bearings in...
But hey, on the bright side I'll get to clean that white rim thoroughly :yahoo: