Well, five months ago, I had a bike that hadn't been started in 6 years; through my own blood, toil, tears, and sweat, and a lot of tips, hints, and encouragement from you guys here, I now I have an almost bone-stock FJ that's running just about as well as it ever did. But I've resisted almost all the tantalizing stuff I've learned about here and elsewhere, always pleading poverty.
It's now been a year since I got laid off and my wife and I saw our combined incomes reduced by almost 50%. Since my layoff, I've been adamant that we live within our new income, and we've managed. I'm not used to feeling poor but such is my lot right now, so I've grinned and borne it.
Last week the weather was nice and I wanted to go for a ride. But I couldn't, because until my wife got paid on Friday I didn't have a spare $10 for gas. Sure, I could have just charged it but that would have gone against the principle of living within our current means, so I didn't. That was one of the last straws.
Meanwhile, outside events have conspired in such a manner that I find myself on the brink of liquidating one of our rainy-day holdings. The amusing part of this (and the reason why I'm explaining the situation here) is that once the immediate and necessary reason is taken care of, I'll find myself with some extra money left over!
As has been frequently advised here and elsewhere, I tend to agree that at this point the best bang for my modification buck can be gotten from suspension upgrades. It's a rare occurrence when I get to use all the engine power I have now, after all! So motor improvements for the near future will be limited to the coil relay mod, slotting the pickup rotor, and raising the needles a tad. Those'll cost less than a tank of gas.
I'm still waiting for the right 3.5" front wheel to come along, and since I just did a basic fork upgrade (new seals, Progressive springs, and 15-wt. oil) and brakes ('02 R1), the wheel and a good brace are all else I'm planning for the front end right now. Those benefits I can use as soon as I get the parts.
Looking at the rear, of course my stock shock needs upgrading, and I'll do the 5.5" FZR1000 rear wheel mod so I can run good radials.
But before I do either of those, I need to make a decision about a swingarm swap, if any.
I like the prospect of the ~20-lb. weight savings of an aluminum swingarm; I also like the notion of a slightly shorter swingarm to decrease the wheelbase a little for better cornering. So since Frank's FZ1 swingarm swap is a little long for my purposes, I'm wondering... has anyone checked the suitability of an early '90s FZR1000 swingarm (the same one my wheel will come off)? Or might the FZ1 swingarm be shortened an inch or two? Or anyone know of another likely prospect?
Cheers, and TIA!
I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.
I'd never heard that there was a 20 lb difference between the aluminum and steel swingarms, but even so, the weight is at or below the COG (and much of it close to the swingarm pivot), so given a decently set up rear shock, I wouldn't think it would be enough of a handling difference to be worth the hassle just for that reason alone.
Going to the YZF600r rear wheel saves ~6 lbs of unsprung weight out at the end of the the swingarm and that IS noticeable, and not nearly as much hassle.
The aluminum arms sure do look purty all polished up, though, right, Pat?
JMO,
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.
You may be right, but after I posted that I got to looking at the (apparently a little shorter) Thunder Ace conversion on the FJ Mods site, and they did report slightly quicker handling. 'Course that may have been subjective...
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
I'd never heard that there was a 20 lb difference between the aluminum and steel swingarms, but even so, the weight is at or below the COG (and much of it close to the swingarm pivot), so given a decently set up rear shock, I wouldn't think it would be enough of a handling difference to be worth the hassle just for that reason alone.
Frank reported about 20 lb. weight savings after his mod; he may have been including savings from other changes, though.
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
Going to the YZF600r rear wheel saves ~6 lbs of unsprung weight out at the end of the the swingarm and that IS noticeable, and not nearly as much hassle.
How about the FZR1000 5.5 x 17 wheel?
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.
You may be right, but after I posted that I got to looking at the (apparently a little shorter) Thunder Ace conversion on the FJ Mods site, and they did report slightly quicker handling. 'Course that may have been subjective...
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
I'd never heard that there was a 20 lb difference between the aluminum and steel swingarms, but even so, the weight is at or below the COG (and much of it close to the swingarm pivot), so given a decently set up rear shock, I wouldn't think it would be enough of a handling difference to be worth the hassle just for that reason alone.
Frank reported about 20 lb. weight savings after his FZ1 mod; he may have been including savings from other changes, though.
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
The aluminum arms sure do look purty all polished up, though, right, Pat?
Yeah, that and the underslung calipers were just a couple of the wheels turning in my head lately. :P
Thanks, Randy; although I don't think I'll be making any big decisions for a couple of weeks (at least) right now I'm kinda leaning toward doing the Thunder Ace mod and the 5.5 in. wheel with a 170/60.
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.
It's subtle, but you can definitely tell the difference in a wheelbase change as small as 5/8". Thing is, if you had 3 FJ's with different wheelbases, they'd have other things different between them, and that would influence your perception more, I think.
Quote from: andyb on October 26, 2009, 09:21:22 AM
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 26, 2009, 06:34:38 AM
I'm gonna guess that if you could ride blindfolded, and we gave you 3 otherwise identical FJs, one stock, and one each with an inch shorter and longer swingarms, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, handling wise.
It's subtle, but you can definitely tell the difference in a wheelbase change as small as 5/8". Thing is, if you had 3 FJ's with different wheelbases, they'd have other things different between them, and that would influence your perception more, I think.
What I said... no way to ever prove it for anyone, but the vast majority of riders wouldn't be able to tell.
If you say that you can, I guess you can. :flag_of_truce:
I don't think I could.
Randy T
Indy
Go from 17/40 to 17/42 gearing (or v/v) and take a turn coasting off throttle. It's noticable, and that's about a 5/8" wheelbase change. It's very minor though, like a small change in tire pressure is.
Steve,
your next step is a penske shock.
check out linderman engineering , they are in socal.
a new chain will shorten wheelbase :lol:
personally I would just charged the gas and gone for a ride.
feed your soul.
Mark, Linderman is down in the south bay not L.A.
Kim
that 20 lbs weight savings i reported was all the changes combined.... swingarm, forks, wheels and brakes
my biggest weight savings were the wheels.... as the early model FJ wheels are very heavy.
the early model FJ already has an aluminum swingarm but the FZ1 model was still beefier and lighter by a couple of lbs.
you can quicken the steering by raising the ride height and IMO everyone who has done a swingarm swap has also raised the ride height.
except for my latest ride out west i ride exclusively in the mountains ( mostly roads that are very narrow and extry twisty.....i've never had a problem with turning the motorcycle or thinking that the swingarm was too long :good:
KOokaloo!
Quote from: tqmx1 on October 26, 2009, 01:29:29 PM
Mark, Linderman is down in the south bay not L.A.
Kim
uh ohh ,there goes my Alzheimer's again. along with my C.R.S. (can't remember shit).
Quote from: Mark Olson on October 26, 2009, 12:40:38 PM
your next step is a penske shock.
Agreed; it's at the top of the list! But before I place that order, I need to decide if I'm gonna do anything about the swingarm so that any necessary reconfiguration is "baked in".
Quote from: Mark Olson on October 26, 2009, 12:40:38 PM
check out linderman engineering
I looked at their web site; prices seem a little on the high side. And then there'd be in-state sales tax, and shipping because they're almost 340 slab miles away. Likely I could do better getting it from one of the shops in AZ or NV. ;) But thanks for letting me know they're there!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 26, 2009, 01:46:12 PM
that 20 lbs weight savings i reported was all the changes combined.... swingarm, forks, wheels and brakes
Ah, so! It did seem like a lot from the swingarm alone, but apparently I misinterpreted.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 26, 2009, 01:46:12 PM
the early model FJ already has an aluminum swingarm
I have a '91 with a steel swingarm - has anyone ever compared the weights of the later steel and the earlier alloy swingarms? I'm thinking that it might be relatively easy to transplant an early aluminum arm and save a few lb.
I might add here that I'm a middle-weight, about 185 right now, and I never carry enough luggage to matter and my wife has declared that her passengering days are over. Although I had concerns about a 600 arm being strong enough for a 1200, since I'm not planning a monster motor (yet :P ) I'm sure the stock arm is plenty beefy enough for my purposes. But a bit shorter WB would be nice, and weight savings is always good!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 26, 2009, 01:46:12 PM
you can quicken the steering by raising the ride height and IMO everyone who has done a swingarm swap has also raised the ride height.
Although I may need to reexamine this when I know the diameter of the back wheel I eventually put on, I've already raised it 1 in. with shorter dogbones... any higher and I'd need to put a board under the centerstand to lube the chain, and there is the issue that you're also raising the CoG when you do raise the rear. And the fork tubes are 1/4 in. higher in the triples, adding a little more quickness to the steering and lowering the CoG slightly. I don't think I'd want to go further in that direction without shortening the WB. Too quick of steering and too long of WB and you can wind up with something that wants to high-side at the drop of a hat!
And thanks to everyone else who's weighed in - the wheels in my head keep turning! (http://i33.tinypic.com/j9bm0m.gif)
Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!" (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 26, 2009, 09:02:20 PM
Although I may need to reexamine this when I know the diameter of the back wheel I eventually put on, I've already raised it 1 in. with shorter dogbones... any higher and I'd need to put a board under the centerstand to lube the chain, and there is the issue that you're also raising the CoG when you do raise the rear. And the fork tubes are 1/4 in. higher in the triples, adding a little more quickness to the steering and lowering the CoG slightly. I don't think I'd want to go further in that direction without shortening the WB. Too quick of steering and too long of WB and you can wind up with something that wants to high-side at the drop of a hat!
And thanks to everyone else who's weighed in - the wheels in my head keep turning! (http://i33.tinypic.com/j9bm0m.gif)
Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!" (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
You're going to have to go a lot further than you think to really mess up the FJ handling and turn it into a "high side machine" lol..... i've got my ride height so far up i would need a 4" block for my centerstand to do any good :good2: By having adjustable ride height shock and adjustable dogbones i was able to set my FJ to launch/ handle just the way i wanted. A hard launch now for me equates to just a bit of wheelspin and the front tire about a foot off the ground.....time and space compressing very quickly in front of the bike.
too high in the back and the rear tire will just break loose.... too low and the front end wants to come up.
See this is the beauty of modification.... the ability to make the machine into what you want it to be.... everyone has a different idea of "perfection" but there have been enough experiments done for us to have a pretty good handle on what will work well for most people
KOokaloo!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 26, 2009, 11:42:20 PM
You're going to have to go a lot further than you think to really mess up the FJ handling and turn it into a "high side machine" lol.....
Oh, I'm sure you're right, and I'm also sure that I'll like the handling a lot better when I have the proper 3.5 in. wheel for my 120/70 Sport Demon front tire. Right now, it feels like the front contact patch is about 1/4 in. wide! LOL
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 26, 2009, 11:42:20 PM
See this is the beauty of modification.... the ability to make the machine into what you want it to be.... everyone has a different idea of "perfection" but there have been enough experiments done for us to have a pretty good handle on what will work well for most people
Yes, and that's a big part of the reason that I'm not (too) embarrassed to run off at the mouth here, spitting out ideas like a 4th of July sparkler... Folks will say, "Tried that; it didn't work," or "Tried that; it worked but was too much time/money for the benefit," or "Tried that; it's great!" or maybe, "Hey, I haven't tried that - might be a good idea!"
Now, about that early alloy for late steel swingarm swap idea... anybody got a clue if it'd be worth it?
I might add that when I'm putting the new shock on, even if I don't do
any swingarm mod, I'm planning to repack the swingarm bearings anyway - not that I have any particular reason to other than that it's an 18-year-old bike!
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 26, 2009, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 26, 2009, 01:46:12 PM
the early model FJ already has an aluminum swingarm
I have a '91 with a steel swingarm - has anyone ever compared the weights of the later steel and the earlier alloy swingarms? I'm thinking that it might be relatively easy to transplant an early aluminum arm and save a few lb.
I might add here that I'm a middle-weight, about 185 right now, and I never carry enough luggage to matter and my wife has declared that her passengering days are over. Although I had concerns about a 600 arm being strong enough for a 1200, since I'm not planning a monster motor (yet :P ) I'm sure the stock arm is plenty beefy enough for my purposes. But a bit shorter WB would be nice, and weight savings is always good!
I recall someone discussing the possibility of going from steel to aluminum swingarms on the late model FJ's. It's probably doable, but you'll need all of the linkages as well as the shock, something about the entire setup being slightly different.
There was a FJ with a rather lot of power that took a stock swingarm and twisted it (Johnny Cannon?) but he was up in the 150hp range if memory serves, and using a good deal of nitrous.
Quote from: andyb on October 27, 2009, 07:52:30 AM
There was a FJ with a rather lot of power that took a stock swingarm and twisted it (Johnny Cannon?) but he was up in the 150hp range if memory serves, and using a good deal of nitrous.
Well, at least it's good to know that the stock swingarm is good for 150 hp... likely that was BEFORE he hit the little red button! (http://i35.tinypic.com/317cbiu.gif)
Neg, that was after. He had a 1250 motor with headwork and cams and around 45 from a bottle. If I remember correctly he hit 150 but lost a clutch in the process.
I also seem to remember him running insane gearing, like 16/47 or some such. I have to think that would have put ungodly forces on the swingarm, if the tire could stay hooked.
Anyone have a working link to Jaroz's bike, Black Sunshine? It used to be on Amy's site if nothing else, but my links ain't no good no mo`... boo.
Quote from: andyb on October 27, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
Neg, that was after. He had a 1250 motor with headwork and cams and around 45 from a bottle. If I remember correctly he hit 150 but lost a clutch in the process.
Oh, well. I was hoping somebody could at least claim 200hp out of an FJ. :wacko1:
I have a 1349cc engine (stock valve sizes) and i'm getting 162 at the rear wheel with 115 lb ft of torque on pump gas. 10.25 compression
Andy York also has a 1349cc with oversize valves and higher compression.... while his torque numbers aren't as good as mine (still around 100 lb ft) he has me on the big end with 175hp +
i'm sure his motor is at 200 hp at the crank and mine is probably real close....maybe even over if i ran some good fuel thru it.
if you plan on building a monster motor it's best to start out with a crate 1250 motor..... i mean you can replace every single piece inside and still have 20 yr old engine cases.
Kookaloo! (like ya mean it :biggrin:)
Frank
Quote from: andyb on October 27, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
Neg, that was after. He had a 1250 motor with headwork and cams and around 45 from a bottle. If I remember correctly he hit 150 but lost a clutch in the process.
I also seem to remember him running insane gearing, like 16/47 or some such. I have to think that would have put ungodly forces on the swingarm, if the tire could stay hooked.
Anyone have a working link to Jaroz's bike, Black Sunshine? It used to be on Amy's site if nothing else, but my links ain't no good no mo`... boo.
Yeah, in its last form before catastrophe...
IDK if he ever got it dynoed after the supercharger or not, but I don't think so.
http://www.reservoirdogs.ca/blacksunshine.htm (http://www.reservoirdogs.ca/blacksunshine.htm)
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 27, 2009, 03:35:43 PM
Quote from: andyb on October 27, 2009, 12:23:02 PM
Neg, that was after. He had a 1250 motor with headwork and cams and around 45 from a bottle. If I remember correctly he hit 150 but lost a clutch in the process.
Oh, well. I was hoping somebody could at least claim 200hp out of an FJ. :wacko1:
Steve, why not 1000 HP.....http://www.kingracing.com/ (http://www.kingracing.com/) :shout:
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 27, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Yeah, in its last form before catastrophe...
Catastrophe?
Sure was purdy... don't know that I'd've gone for a chrome gas tank, but looks to have been an engineering marvel!
Oh, and Frank, those numbers you mentioned, and your description of your launch, make me think you must be in the low 9s, or even the high 8s! (http://i35.tinypic.com/2lxjeq0.jpg)
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 27, 2009, 08:16:37 PM
Steve, why not 1000 HP.....http://www.kingracing.com/ (http://www.kingracing.com/) :shout:
Ah, but Mark, although that motor might be "based on" the FJ design, it's all Puma this and billet that - the only production bike parts mentioned in the specs are the Gixxer forks, so if it could be called anything, it's as much a Suzuki as anything else! (http://i36.tinypic.com/2uz2yvm.gif)
Torque is my friend :biggrin:
there have been a few bikes beside me that thought their brakes were draggin' when the light turned green.... i mean how could an antique air cooled motorcycle WITH LUGGAGE and a KUKALU! license plate possibly get out of the hole that fast? ?
Life is good when you KOokaloo!
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 27, 2009, 09:09:10 PM
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 27, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Yeah, in its last form before catastrophe...
Catastrophe?
Sure was purdy... don't know that I'd've gone for a chrome gas tank, but looks to have been an engineering marvel!
Oh, and Frank, those numbers you mentioned, and your description of your launch, make me think you must be in the low 9s, or even the high 8s! (http://i35.tinypic.com/2lxjeq0.jpg)
I looked through the archives, but couldn't find Jon's post on exactly what happened, but IIRC, the engine sneezed, and very bad things happened inside.
If you have time, go over and search 'Black Sunshine'... there's lots of entertaining posts there about the build.
Randy T
Indy
I believe Black Sunshines demise occured when a connecting rod made a new and rather large crankcase vent in the front of the engine.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on October 27, 2009, 10:19:19 PM
I believe Black Sunshines demise occured when a connecting rod made a new and rather large crankcase vent in the front of the engine.
There's a video of it featured on a TV show on this page, with an interview with Jon:
http://www.reservoirdogs.ca/video.html (http://www.reservoirdogs.ca/video.html)
Randy T
Indy
Which video of the many is the correct one?
:mail1:
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 27, 2009, 10:41:16 PM
Which video of the many is the correct one?
:mail1:
Try the one that says BLACK SUNSHINE.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 27, 2009, 10:29:30 PM
There's a video of it featured on a TV show on this page, with an interview with Jon:
http://www.reservoirdogs.ca/video.html (http://www.reservoirdogs.ca/video.html)
Randy T
Indy
Yes, probably the ultimate modded FJ... The telltale line was when he said, "Cost? About $45k (!!!)." Speed costs money; how fast do you want to go? ;)
But back on topic, has anyone ever tried using the swingarm from an 89-96 FZR100?
Oops; of course I meant FZR1000! (http://i36.tinypic.com/2enp4p0.gif)
Quote from: threejagsteve on October 28, 2009, 06:54:12 PM
Oops; of course I meant FZR1000! (http://i36.tinypic.com/2enp4p0.gif)
yup..... Steve Conklin tried one.....lots of interference from the bracing... shock is at the wrong angle thru the swingarm etc etc etc.... he did it......... but now has a FZ1 swingarm on his FJ.
KOokaloo!
Frank
Why yes it can be done, I did it!! It is no small chore but if you are looking for a winter project go for it. Step one you have to bush the FZR swing arm bushing to fit the FJs shaft. Step 2 once you get the swing arm installed you need to clearance the right arm to clear the rear master cylinder.
And thats just the begining, The farther you go the more you will find.
Good luck if you try it.
As far as I know the FJ is somewhere in the south state.
Kim
Thanks, Frank and Kim,
Also, Don W. posted on the Yahoo board that he had tried to do that mod and wound up going back to the stock arm. Though he didn't say what exactly caused him to throw in the towel, from his post it sounded like maybe he got hung up on those shock linkage issues.
I think I'm beginning to see a negative cost/benefit ratio in this notion... i.e., it'd be more trouble than it'd be worth!
There was just this nice FZR1000 arm, already polished, 4 sale cheep! :P Figured it couldn't hurt to ask!
And I gather that a '90-and-before aluminum arm wouldn't be a simple bolt-on either, and likely for minimal benefit.
So, for now at least, I'm back to either the Thunder Ace conversion or the mental drawing board... or just leaving well enough alone! (http://i37.tinypic.com/aox9ur.gif)
There are a couple aftermarket swingarms out there, and they occasionally show up on fleabay..... just keep your eyes open. One of them would be even cooler, think under-brace...... like the one on Black Sunshine :biggrin:
Thanks, Rich, good idea!
I'll keep that in mind as I'm trolling eBay, the Junk Heap of the World! (http://i36.tinypic.com/2r2awko.gif)
And the plot thickens...
It seems that the Thunder Ace swingarm used by those on the FJmods site was only available (in the U.S., at least) for one year.
However, I like the idea and push won't come to shove until I wear out my back tire, which as of this writing has less than 500 mi. on it.
So I'll persevere and continue trolling the Web...
Quote from: RichBaker on October 29, 2009, 02:14:55 PM
There are a couple aftermarket swingarms out there, and they occasionally show up on fleabay..... just keep your eyes open. One of them would be even cooler, think under-brace...... like the one on Black Sunshine :biggrin:
You can order the JMC (like on Black Sunshine) about anyway you want it.
They have two styles of top and bottom bracing.
One with eccentric adjusters and powdercoat, with any bracing at all will set you back $800-950.
They will bottom brace a stock swingarm for L140, however, and polish it for another L80-90.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on October 30, 2009, 08:37:27 AM
You can order the JMC (like on Black Sunshine) about anyway you want it.
One with eccentric adjusters and powdercoat, with any bracing at all will set you back $800-950.
Thanks, Randy,
I'd already priced a couple of custom arms... all in about the same ballpark.
At this point, I'm not gonna be able to justify THAT much for a swingarm... it'd be that OR the Penske, but not both, and I'm pretty certain the shock would give me a much greater ROI (return on investment).
I figure I'll just have enough for a Penske, F & R wheel mods, and a used swingarm if I can find one that isn't too pricey.
The swingarm mod will cut down on (but not completely eliminate) the machining for the rear wheel mod, and that'll help pay for the necessary machining on the swingarm if I can find the right T-Ace arm...
But I'd wager that some lucky FJer got some tasty leftovers at an excellent price after B.S. blew up!
So although I'm not wishing any unfortunate mishaps on any other FJer, I'll continue to keep my eyes open on the secondary market (i.e., used stuff)! :P
Hi
I fitted a JMC to my 90 FJ, awsome bit of kit but had to junk the centre stand.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/FJ12SP/My%20Bike/0005.jpg)
Adam.
check your registration.. sure looks 91'ish
Quote from: Adam FJ on October 30, 2009, 03:12:28 PM
Hi
I fitted a JMC to my 90 FJ, awsome bit of kit but had to junk the centre stand.
Adam.
Very nice, Adam!
Which pipe is that? Any oil change difficulties?
Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!" (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
Sorry its a 91 sold this bike early this year now have a Black 89, the cans are from an XJR1300 it uses the same lump as the FJ just bored out a bit, under powered though(detuned), dont know if you have them in the US.
Heres a pic of one.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/FJ12SP/yam_401_1999_00_700x500_yamaha-xjr1.jpg)
Adam.
No, unfortunately the XJR1300 isn't available in the States; but I do like those pipes!
I'd wager P&P from the UK on just a pair of cans would be ~$100; so maybe eBay Canada or eBay Mexico is the way to go... ;)
Cheers, mate! (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
Nope...we don't see them up here. Wish we did...nice lookin bike.
Cheers...Jake
The Thunderace swingarm does not have a shorter wheelbase than stock. If that were true, I would have had to change the sprocket and chains, which I did not. It does appear a little shorter than stock, which is because it does not have that funky stock chain tensioner setup.
I think you will have some trouble using that FZR1000 rear wheel with the Ace arm. The sprocket carrier assembly is quite a bit different. Honestly, unless you are a real scratcher, just do the YZF600 rear wheel mod with 170 tire. It is cheap and it works.
I saw this posted earlier in this thread by racerman_27410 and thought it appropriate to comment:
"I have a 1349cc engine (stock valve sizes) and i'm getting 162 at the rear wheel with 115 lb ft of torque on pump gas. 10.25 compression"
I promised my old Kookaloo buddy Frank that my 2 cylinder Aprilia would have more horsepower than his mighty Brutus. And I have made good on that promise. Frank's mountain motor makes 162rwhp, on what I would guess is a Dynojet 250i dynamometer. That is equal to or better than all the current Japanese I-4 liter bikes available in 2009. A worthy accomplishment for the FJ.
My Aprilia makes 181rwhp on a Factory Pro dyno. The correction factor from Factory Pro to Dynojet is between 1.15 and 1.20 in that horsepower range, which conservatively yields 208 Dynojet rwhp with 11.4 psi of boost. On pump gas. Now THAT is Kookaloo!
Still have some tuning to do, but working toward a run at The Texas Mile this Spring. And if all things go well, we might make it to the Maxton Mile as well. All will depend on whether the motor can hold together or not.
Quoteworking toward a run at The Texas Mile this Spring. And if all things go well, we might make it to the Maxton Mile as well. All will depend on whether the motor can hold together or not[/quote
I would like to do that, too.
I live just over the hill from Bonneville. That black line running to the sky....
Best of luck to you
Quote from: derbybrit1 on October 31, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
The Thunderace swingarm does not have a shorter wheelbase than stock.
Well, that contradicts what's on the FJmods site: http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/ (http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/)
And if it's so not a good idea, why did
YOU do it?
And if I have the complete FZR1000 rear wheel - sprocket carrier, spacers and all - what difference does it make that the T-Ace units are different? I'd only be using the T-Ace arm, and perhaps the axle if the FZR axle isn't long enough.
And BTW, the correct tire size for a YZF600 rim is a 160... just because you can get a 170 on doesn't make it right.
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 01, 2009, 02:55:07 AM
And BTW, the correct tire size for a YZF600 rim is a 160... just because you can get a 170 on doesn't make it right.
A 160/60 is usually used on 4.5 and 5.0" wheels.
A 170/60 is used on 5.0 and 5.5" wheels.
A 180/55 is used on 5.5 and 6.0" wheels.
This is from the Pirelli spec sheets.
>>Well, that contradicts what's on the FJmods site: http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/ (http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/)
That information is incorrect. Again, I used stock sprockets and chain. Stock wheelbase is preserved. You can't believe everything you read. Sometimes you have to do your own homework.
>>And if it's so not a good idea, why did YOU do it?
I used the Thunderace swingarm with the Thunderace wheel. And it turned out great. Just ask Pat Conlon or Gary Mastro, who have Ace conversions that I built. Using the Ace wheel, not an FZR1000 wheel as you have.
And a swingarm is not just a swingarm. There is such a thing as wheel offset and swingarm width, front and rear. The FZR is not the same as the Ace. And countershaft sprocket alignment is an issue as well.
Anybody tell you how using a 180 on the 5.5" wheel is so close to the chain that you have to be careful what tire you select?
I'll tell you a quick story. Brian Hunt, a really good guy from the Pacific NW, met up with us at a rally a few years ago. He had done some kind of FZR wheel conversion, and he had a ton of room between his tire and chain. I referred him to my Ace conversion, where there was almost zero tire clearance. It took some discussion before he understood that the different swingarm and sprocket carrier offset allowed him good chain alignment, but his wheel was probably 1/2" off-center. I built a measurement jig to insure my wheel and sprocket were perfectly centered, so that was the end of the technical discussion. In practical riding terms, his setup appeared to work just fine. I didn't ask him how it worked flat-out in 5th gear.
A YZF600 wheel and a new set of dogbones is a good starting point. No chain or tire issues. You can do that in the $100 price range easily. If that inflames your the modifier virus, then you will know which path to take.
Mark, Just looking at them the thunderace arm sure looks a lot like a G1 FZ1 arm.
Quote from: derbybrit1 on October 31, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
I saw this posted earlier in this thread by racerman_27410 and thought it appropriate to comment:
"I have a 1349cc engine (stock valve sizes) and i'm getting 162 at the rear wheel with 115 lb ft of torque on pump gas. 10.25 compression"
I promised my old Kookaloo buddy Frank that my 2 cylinder Aprilia would have more horsepower than his mighty Brutus. And I have made good on that promise. Frank's mountain motor makes 162rwhp, on what I would guess is a Dynojet 250i dynamometer. That is equal to or better than all the current Japanese I-4 liter bikes available in 2009. A worthy accomplishment for the FJ.
My Aprilia makes 181rwhp on a Factory Pro dyno. The correction factor from Factory Pro to Dynojet is between 1.15 and 1.20 in that horsepower range, which conservatively yields 208 Dynojet rwhp with 11.4 psi of boost. On pump gas. Now THAT is Kookaloo!
Still have some tuning to do, but working toward a run at The Texas Mile this Spring. And if all things go well, we might make it to the Maxton Mile as well. All will depend on whether the motor can hold together or not.
Damn those are some serious numbers on that I talian bike... of course you are doing some major ramming if the charge into the cylinders WITH A SUPERCHARGER !!!!!!! :flag_of_truce:
and BTW have you been taking assatall pills? You have gotten so skinny it looks like you're wearing someone else's pants! (explains the lighter springs you are now using LOL :biggrin:
KOokaloo!
Quote
Anybody tell you how using a 180 on the 5.5" wheel is so close to the chain that you have to be careful what tire you select?
I'll tell you a quick story. Brian Hunt, a really good guy from the Pacific NW, met up with us at a rally a few years ago. He had done some kind of FZR wheel conversion, and he had a ton of room between his tire and chain. I referred him to my Ace conversion, where there was almost zero tire clearance. It took some discussion before he understood that the different swingarm and sprocket carrier offset allowed him good chain alignment, but his wheel was probably 1/2" off-center. I built a measurement jig to insure my wheel and sprocket were perfectly centered, so that was the end of the technical discussion. In practical riding terms, his setup appeared to work just fine. I didn't ask him how it worked flat-out in 5th gear.
(http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/43218/2961760740045553760S200x200Q85.jpg)
This is exactly why I didn't attempt to do this set up via the FJ Mod page. I had a professional machinist and motorcycle gurus (Poway Motorcycles) set mine up. It is a complicated set up, but when done properly the FZR1000 rim in the stock FJ swingarm is a tremendous performance and ride improvement over the stock set up. And I can tell you that my bike will run out at over 140 mph very nicely, as well as travel down the interstate at any rate of speed very comfortably and securely planted to the road. Now, If I can just get the front forks set up to handle stopping and turning of the beast more efficiently I would be happy all the way around. Hint, Looking for another Guru, someone who knows a bit about the YZF750 USD fork set up, for a little help. :pardon:
Anyways, it is always best to have all your ducks in a row before you start any modification.
Later..... :bye2:
Marsh also has a FZR1000 wheel conversion. If properly done, they are just as good as an Ace wheel.
I think the writeup about YZF750 forks I posted on Barry's website is pretty complete, with pictures.
If I had to do it over again, I might have put new posts on the lower triple clamp instead of putting a bigger block on the steering neck. I think the decision came down to which method had best strength and did not require welding.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 01, 2009, 02:55:07 AM
Quote from: derbybrit1 on October 31, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
The Thunderace swingarm does not have a shorter wheelbase than stock.
Well, that contradicts what's on the FJmods site: http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/ (http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/)
And if it's so not a good idea, why did YOU do it?
And if I have the complete FZR1000 rear wheel - sprocket carrier, spacers and all - what difference does it make that the T-Ace units are different? I'd only be using the T-Ace arm, and perhaps the axle if the FZR axle isn't long enough.
And BTW, the correct tire size for a YZF600 rim is a 160... just because you can get a 170 on doesn't make it right.
Steve
I think maybe you should take task.... go digging thru a motorcycle junkyard with a tape measure and micrometer so you can come up with something all on your own....you know.... a mod that NO ONE has ever done before.... "perfect" mods that suit your idea of what your FJ should be!.... that would give you a little more street cred when debating a "pioneering modifier" . right now you got a bunch of ideas..... Rittner has the facts AND the street cred to back up his statements.
Marc has done his homework.... he has tried mods that didnt work and found some others that worked very well... i really dont think he has any reason to BS you .....JMO but actually developing a clean functional mod for a FJ is a lot harder than dreaming while clickity clacking some keys on a computer keyboard
KOokaloo!
Quote from: racerman_27410 on November 01, 2009, 04:08:04 PM
Rittner has the facts AND the street cred to back up his statements.
KOokaloo!
FYI: So does Frank. He was the 1st one to do the FZ1 mods to an FJ - he (actually his sister I believe) also invented the word Kookaloo...
This is Frank (racerman_27410 - in case you don't know): http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/FrankMoore/FrankMoore.htm (http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/FrankMoore/FrankMoore.htm)
Quote from: Marsh White on November 01, 2009, 04:36:05 PM
FYI: So does Frank. He was the 1st one to do the FZ1 mods to an FJ - he (actually his sister I believe) also invented the word Kookaloo...
This is Frank (racerman_27410 - in case you don't know): http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/FrankMoore/FrankMoore.htm (http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/FrankMoore/FrankMoore.htm)
LMAO....my little sis may have coined the term "Kookaloo" but the feeling has existed since the dawn of the wheel and the first person to roll off the top of a steep hill :good2:
KOokalooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Quote from: derbybrit1 on November 01, 2009, 02:23:43 PM
Marsh also has a FZR1000 wheel conversion. If properly done, they are just as good as an Ace wheel.
I think the writeup about YZF750 forks I posted on Barry's website is pretty complete, with pictures.
If I had to do it over again, I might have put new posts on the lower triple clamp instead of putting a bigger block on the steering neck. I think the decision came down to which method had best strength and did not require welding.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks. I am sure I will. I was thinking it may be cleaner to cut the tabs and re-weld them in their new position. I'm not much of a welder, although I have the welder to do the job. But, I think by the time I bought the gas, and set it up with new line, I could have someone weld the tabs back on for me.
I will certainly be fallowing up with you on the YZF set up. Right now I have my hands full changing out the fuel pump in my wife's 02 firebird. I swear the GM designers' must plan their designs around how they can make the service departments some $. It takes about 5 minutes to switch out the pump and 5 hours to get the tank out and back in again. It is crazy.. :wacko3:
Later.....
Quote from: derbybrit1 on November 01, 2009, 09:43:19 AM
I'll tell you a quick story. Brian Hunt, a really good guy from the Pacific NW, met up with us at a rally a few years ago. He had done some kind of FZR wheel conversion, and he had a ton of room between his tire and chain. I referred him to my Ace conversion, where there was almost zero tire clearance. It took some discussion before he understood that the different swingarm and sprocket carrier offset allowed him good chain alignment, but his wheel was probably 1/2" off-center. I built a measurement jig to insure my wheel and sprocket were perfectly centered, so that was the end of the technical discussion. In practical riding terms, his setup appeared to work just fine. I didn't ask him how it worked flat-out in 5th gear.
Now that IS a scary story! (http://i34.tinypic.com/15h1x55.gif) LOL He actually hadn't noticed that the wheel was off-center to the rest of the bike?
Marc, it was actually your detailed writeup of the T-Ace conversion that convinced me of its feasibility.
Though I haven't done much to my FJ yet, I have a good bit of experience modifying other, mostly 4-wheeled, stuff. And no, I don't just mean bolt-ons. Once upon a time, I had a fair bit of "street cred" as they call it these days for being the first anyone knew of on the Gulf Coast to put a 351C in a '67 Mustang. That was in '73. I'm not around here much on Saturdays because Saturday is Jag day... I'm currently turning a '66 3.8S into a rat rod. (http://i34.tinypic.com/32zhq21.gif)
Anyway, I'm at least aware of all the issues you raised regarding the T-Ace arm, even if I haven't engineered solutions yet.
Yes, I've been throwing out a bunch of ideas, looking for comments and feedback. The online equivalent of what we used to call bench racing.
And yes, Marsh, I know "who" Frank is, and Frank is right... Now I should SFU until I've accomplished something worth posting.
And finally, thanks to everyone who's taken the time to contribute comments, constructive criticism, and ideas to this discussion.
I guess there is no reason to toot my own horn if my buds do it for me. Thanks, guys.
Somebody mentioned that an FZ1 arm looks a lot like an Ace arm. YES, it is very similar. Same extrusion. But it is longer, and the wheel is different, and I think it is little wider at the rear of the arm as well. But as Frank demonstrated, a perfectly fine and easily aligned conversion. Extra length wheelbase a problem? I say no.
Look at the new BMW K1300's. They have a 62" wheelbase IIRC. That is a TRAIN! But I have heard few complaints. And don't be surprised when that Beemer sucks the headlight right out of an FJ when it goes burning by...straights or corners. Modern technology is wonderful. But still no substitute for skill, experience, and balls. That's a page right out of Frank's playbook.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/IMG_0789.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/IMG_0794-1.jpg)
it might be a little longer than stock but its not like the rear tire is hanging out the back like a main street squid either.... notice i have the wheel at its most rearward position with the 18/ 38 sprockets..... but.... i can swap gearing to 18/39 ,18/41, 17/41 and 17/44 without having to modify the chain.
gratuitus ass shot .... this is the part the wannabe's see when the light turns green :biggrin:
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/IMG_0996.jpg)
it hasnt stopped me from going around even the tightest,decreasing radius uphill corners either
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/IMG_0180.jpg)
Here is a little taste of the kind of roads we have around here..... This is "green"..... East Coast style !
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/Racerman27410/421pic.jpg)
damn i love some riding shots....... :good2:
makes me wanna KOOKALOO!
Frank, If you have any intrest in it I installed a 02 or later R1 wheel under the back of my FZ1. It's not that big of a job. The drive side remains the same and all the mods are made in the brake side.
Kim :good:
Quote from: tqmx1 on November 05, 2009, 12:24:51 AM
Frank, If you have any intrest in it I installed a 02 or later R1 wheel under the back of my FZ1. It's not that big of a job. The drive side remains the same and all the mods are made in the brake side.
Kim :good:
thanks Kim but i already have two extra rear wheels ( its nice to have a fresh set of rubber mounted up and ready for a wheel swap/tire change ).... the R1 is 6" wide right?... i know some R1 guys run a 180 on their 6" rims ...do you run 190 or 180?
how can the changes all be on one side and the wheel stay centered?
180 roadtech2 when ever I where it out I might try a 190/55 every thing I have seen says it's the best of both worlds.
I wish you were cloaser I have a 170/60 mounted up on a 5.5 try it you might like it :good:
Kim
Well, soreness from the recent chest-beating contest having subsided, I thought I'd post an update for those following my progress:
Unless I come across new and different information, I've pretty much discarded the swingarm transplant idea. Since it seems that the T-Ace arm if fact isn't shorter than stock and the FZ1 arm is a little longer, neither would fulfill my main goal of shortening the wheelbase any better than extending the axle holes in the stock arm as suggested by Arnie in another thread. Frank and others have said that weight savings, if any, would be minimal, and I seriously doubt that the slight lowering of CoG achieved with the underslung caliper would even be noticeable. And unless/until I go for a monster motor, I really don't need any more strength or rigidity. So although doing the swap would probably gain me a better table at the Modders' Ball, for my purposes at least the whole notion fails the old hot rodders' basic bottom line: Will it improve performance?
On the bright side, yesterday I picked up a few .030" washers for my carb needles, so now I can slot my pickup rotor when the spirit moves me.
My 5.5x17 rear wheel is supposed to arrive on Monday, and on Tuesday I'm gonna go see a man about his 3.5x17 front wheel, dial indicator in hand.
Ever onward and upward! (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
One other you might try is slipping a R1 or R6 front end under the bike you would gain cartrage forks in eather standard or inverted legs depending on year and bike chosen.
From what is said it shortens the wheel base and quickens the stearing.
I am about to do the dirty deed on my FZ1
I wanna be there for that one Kim. Let me know when you're gonna get started on that.
Quote from: tqmx1 on November 08, 2009, 08:21:05 PM
One other you might try is slipping a R1 or R6 front end under the bike you would gain cartrage forks in eather standard or inverted legs depending on year and bike chosen.
Yes, I have the strong suspicion there is a front-end upgrade somewhere off in the future, but right now the weakest suspension link is my stock rear shock. That was the reason for getting the swingarm issue sorted now - didn't want to get an expensive shock and then 6 months down the road realize that I should have ordered it a little different to mount to a different arm...
In the meantime, today it's supposed to be ~80* here in LA... as soon as UPS delivers that package, I'm gonna go out and put some wear on my tires! :D
Thats the super nice thing about the Penskie shock the lower attach can be changed from fork to eyelit with 2 - 1" wrenches.