I have recently inherited the 84 fj 1100.. Started digging into it to see why it was not running.. Found no compression in any of the cylinders, cracked carb bodies, and bad cdi box..
here is what I have done so far:
new dynatec cdi ignition and pickup coil
new accel spark plug coils and spark plugs
new carburetors
what I want to know is all of the needle and screw sittings.. No one has really answered that question I have had for a long time... Any help would be awesome :good2:
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on March 28, 2014, 06:11:12 PM
I have recently inherited the 84 fj 1100.. Started digging into it to see why it was not running.. Found no compression in any of the cylinders, cracked carb bodies, and bad cdi box..
here is what I have done so far:
new dynatec cdi ignition and pickup coil
new accel spark plug coils and spark plugs
new carburetors
what I want to know is all of the needle and screw sittings.. No one has really answered that question I have had for a long time... Any help would be awesome :good2:
Welcome, The fuel air screws for a starting point set at 2 1/2 turns out. Sounds like you have a project !! No compression ? Please explain a little more if you can. Cracked carb body's ? If you can post some pictures.
How did you conclude that you had a bad TCI / CDI box ? Do you have a Yamaha Service Manual ?
If you haven't done so already go up into the introductions area and introduce yourself. Lots of good members to help you out. Let us know where you are located.
George
Mike,
IF you have NO compression in any of the cylinders, you need to find out why FIRST.
Don't put any (more) money into carbs, settings, ignition, until after you know why it has no compression.
Possible causes are very bad head gasket, or badly cracked head, totally worn rings, bent valves, totally worn valve stem guides and seals.
These are items that may make you choose to abandon this bike. And, no matter how well it can carburate, or how big and fat the spark may be, if you got NO compression the engine will just not run.
Well for the cdi problem I found no fire at any of the spark plugs. Traced the plugs to the coils, no fire at the coils:(.. Ok, traced the wires to the cdi box, no fire out but fire in to the box:) saw the cdi is vaccum controlled.. Decided I wanted to update to electronic controlled.. As for the coils I saw they looked kinda old and worn out... So I replaced them with accel coils.. Have used accel coils on other bikes and cars and found no issues..problem solved for the "no fire" issue:) took the bike to a mech, he told me that there is no compression in any of the cylinders:(... Ok, now I'm thinking of buying a used engine, bad or good.. Taking two bad engines and make a good one... Haven't done much since the mechanic.... Also have individual air filters as an added upgraded... Guy I got the bike from said if I got it running I could have it...the only screws I could see are the ones where the throttle adjustments are and inside the float bowls... Is there any others I might be missing...
Zero compression eh? I guess it won't matter much if you get some compression back when you squirt some oil in the cylinders and test again. Just in case you get that part sorted out, the air/fuel mix screws are plugged by the factory. You may need to drill them out to access the screws. They are on top near each intake manifold, under an aluminum plug in the carb body. Pulling these plugs has been documented here, try the search function, I find all kinds of good stuff when I search.
An added note to this last post is i took the spark plug out and looked through the plug hole with a light today, from what I could see the top of the piston looked burnt... From that I'm guessing it ran out of oil at one time or another... I might be wrong, I'm gonna take the cylinder head off after the weather clears up in the next day or so...
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on March 28, 2014, 08:23:19 PM
Well for the cdi problem I found no fire at any of the spark plugs. Traced the plugs to the coils, no fire at the coils:(.. Ok, traced the wires to the cdi box, no fire out but fire in to the box:) saw the cdi is vaccum controlled.. Decided I wanted to update to electronic controlled.. As for the coils I saw they looked kinda old and worn out... So I replaced them with accel coils.. Have used accel coils on other bikes and cars and found no issues..problem solved for the "no fire" issue:) took the bike to a mech, he told me that there is no compression in any of the cylinders:(... Ok, now I'm thinking of buying a used engine, bad or good.. Taking two bad engines and make a good one... Haven't done much since the mechanic.... Also have individual air filters as an added upgraded... Guy I got the bike from said if I got it running I could have it...the only screws I could see are the ones where the throttle adjustments are and inside the float bowls... Is there any others I might be missing...
There are no screw adjustments inside the bowl. On the out side there are 3 larger screws that are for syncing the carbs. Each carb on the engine side has a fuel/air adjustment. As Arnie said sometimes they are capped, but in these days that is a rare. The caps can be removed. On the engine side under the carbs in the center there is a star wheel to adjust the idle.
Obviously with no compression the motor will never run. IMO you would be better off just buying another bike with a good engine in it. Free can sometimes be expensive.... You can buy a nice FJ between 1500 and 2500.00..... At least here (I don't know where you are located). Occasionally you see an FJ for less than a 1000.00.
I believe the vacuum line going to the TCI is for emissions only. Some just disconnect it. At least on mine it doesn't help or hurt it. On or off can't tell the difference.
If you have no compression in any of the cylinders then I would suggest that it was massively mistreated and if that's the case, what is the condition of the gear box etc...
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on March 28, 2014, 08:41:10 PM
An added note to this last post is i took the spark plug out and looked through the plug hole with a light today, from what I could see the top of the piston looked burnt... From that I'm guessing it ran out of oil at one time or another... I might be wrong, I'm gonna take the cylinder head off after the weather clears up in the next day or so...
Piston looked burnt? Here's a shot of two of my pistons at around 20,000 miles. They're supposed to look burnt.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/697_16_09_13_1_31_50.jpeg)
The one on the left has just been cleaned up a little during the rebuild. All four looked exactly like that.
As for the NO compression on ANY cylinder? We're all looking forward to the answer there, so please keep us posted as to what you find. I can't imagine...other than a valve in EVERY cylinder stuck in an open position?....someone forgot to install rings on the last rebuild? ...head is just sitting loose on the cylinders with no gasket? EVERY piston has a big hole in it? Definitely a head-scratcher.
Cap'n Ron. . .
If it sat for a long time the condensation inside the cylinder can cause the rings to rust and or seize, which will also cause no compression. This is the first issue to deal with. IMO.
Quote from: fj johnnie on March 28, 2014, 10:02:00 PM
If it sat for a long time the condensation inside the cylinder can cause the rings to rust and or seize, which will also cause no compression. This is the first issue to deal with. IMO.
Pictures please. It will be interesting.
George
It has sat in my driveway for a little over 2 years now... I will post pics as soon as the weather clears.. It is bad over here in Louisiana...
It is unusual to have no compression in all 4 cylinders of a motor that spins over to the point that the first thing I would do is verify it, before doing anything else.
The simplest way to do that is take the plugs out, move the plug leads away from where you hand will be and push you thumb over the plug hole, pushing down hard. Spin it over. If you can't hold your thumb over it without it being blown off, it has enough compression to start. If you can hold it there while cranking without air escaping past your finger, it probably doesn't have enough to start. A trained ear could tell you the same thing by listening to it spin over with the plugs in.
It is possible your mechanic was being loose with his terminology. No compression meaning low compression.
The motor was running immediately before the condition it's in now, so what has happened to stop it when it was running or since it was parked? There are things that will effect an unused motor, one is rust, and that will only be on the cylinders with the valves open and is usually the valves stems it effects, not the rings and not all four at once. This is far less common with far fewer consequences than widely believed. The other is the intake or air filter becoming blocked. This can show a dramatic drop in compression readings, as will a cold engine.
Frozen rings are when the ring rusts to the cylinder wall, not contracted into the ring lands on the piston, so if it's spinning over, they aren't frozen.
Just sitting in you drive for a couple of years with the exhausts, carbies and air cleaner mounted I can't see how rust will effect all 4 cylinders. The spare motor I am running in my own bike at the moment had been left in the rain, tilted forward with no carbies. Two inlet ports and one cylinder were full of water and rust. Two valves had blistering rust on the stems that I flicked off with a screw driver. Even with that sort of rust it was running on all cylinders within 30 secs of starting.
Some of the suggestions involve the wearing of different engine parts. A motor can't wear itself beyond the point of running.
Back to my original point. Clean out or remove the air filter element, make sure it is spinning over on the starter at normal speed and verify it has no compression before chasing anything else. Next thing I would do is quick random check of some valve clearances.
No compression on all 4 cylinders? Most unusual. There are a number of other things it could be (like the PO just sitting the head and barrels on it, I've seen that!, carbies fitted with the rags still stuffed in the ports etc) but let's not jump ahead of ourselves. Verify the basics first.
What do you mean by cracked carbies?
Noel
Hmmmmmm, no compression on all four cylinders :scratch_one-s_head: IMHO...I think, given the money you have thrown at your old girl already, I would go out and beg, steal or borrow a compression tester before I went any further. It will at least give YOU a starting point to work from... (popcorn)
John
That motor is stuffed. Dont' spend money on anything yet, start looking for motors while you do a teardown and see what the damage is.
FJ motors are difficult to find, unfortunately.
To capn Ron...
I see the two pistons u have.. What did u use to clean them with?
how do I upload photos? I have pics of piston walls now...they look fine... piston tops look normal wear... all intake valves on carburetor side don't look fully seated with camshafts out....
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 28, 2014, 12:00:10 PM
Posting photos is easy once you get the important details down. First, you need to publish them on the web somewhere. Flicker, Photobucket, Picasa, etc.... Or post them to you photo album in the FJowners gallery. Once they are publicly accessable, you need to copy the URL or path to that photo. Most of the time you can right click on the photo you want and chose the option like "Copy image/file location". When you paste it it will look like this: http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/104_20_10_12_5_59_46_7.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/104_20_10_12_5_59_46_7.jpeg)
Then insert this [ img ][ /img ] (Note: spaces added to prevent it from reading as code.
Then put the URL in between the [ img ]http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/104_20_10_12_5_59_46_7.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/104_20_10_12_5_59_46_7.jpeg)[ /img ]
Remove the spaces and you get the photo to display like below.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/3/104_20_10_12_5_59_46_7.jpeg)
You can also see all coding by choosing to reply with quote. Remember to move your cursor below the bottom quote bracket so your comment is not mixed in the original quote.
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on March 29, 2014, 04:22:50 PM
To capn Ron...
I see the two pistons u have.. What did u use to clean them with?
Hey Mike...
I pulled each piston and set them on the bench in order 1-2-3-4 and was mindful of the orientation. I then cleaned each one individually and marked it with a Sharpie as to it's position in the engine and within each cylinder. I wrote the numbers as I would read them sitting on the bike 1-4 from left to right. That process in place, I just gave the top of each piston a shot with Easy-Off oven cleaner and let it sit for...ohhh...30 minutes. I then scraped the resulting sludge off with a plastic scraper. I then hit it again with oven cleaner and let it sit for 30 minutes and used a green scrunge to clean up the last little bits of carbon. They came out looking like new! Then I set about measuring them each in six ways...and likewise the cylinders with a bore gauge...Put a quick "freshening hone" on the cylinder walls, fitted up fresh rings and reinstalled.
Cap'n Ron. . .
Awesome tip :good: ...... Will give it a try... When u say green scrunge, do u mean one for cleaning pots and pans with?
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on April 01, 2014, 01:51:40 PM
Awesome tip :good: ...... Will give it a try... When u say green scrunge, do u mean one for cleaning pots and pans with?
Maybe he meant one of these.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSK_-dptZBIGdPykWHKM_jAtmwbg_-H0W1WDiVraoHVcLyHfSY_Ag)
Hahahaha :sarcastic: that's funny:)
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on April 01, 2014, 01:51:40 PM
Awesome tip :good: ...... Will give it a try... When u say green scrunge, do u mean one for cleaning pots and pans with?
Yes, exactly! Well, not *exactly*...those scrubbing pads are available from a good hardware store in different grits. White, red, green and black from the least abrasive to the most abrasive. I keep those on hand and only go as gritty as the job calls for. The green one did the trick with a little added elbow grease. The one on the back of the pot scrubber sponge will do the same job! :yes:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on March 31, 2014, 12:36:13 PM
how do I upload photos?
Shit. :sorry:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=341.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=341.0)
http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_07_3.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_07_3.jpeg)
http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_05_2.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_05_2.jpeg)
http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_28_59_0.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_28_59_0.jpeg)
http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_02_1.jpeg (http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_02_1.jpeg)
this is as far as I got.... im thinking the rings are fine.... felt the walls for any scoring and found none.... forgot to take a pic of bottom of head to show valves... all intake valves were not fully seated... im thinkin possible bent or stuck valves....
what do you guys think??
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on April 01, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
what do you guys think??
I think you need to post some bigger pictures... by the time I zoom in enough to see anything, the resolution is horrible. I'm not sure you'll get much feedback from these pics.
Frank
Quote from: mikedastonfj1100 on April 01, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_07_3.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_05_2.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_28_59_0.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/thumb_4013_01_04_14_1_29_02_1.jpeg)
Fixed It For You.
Quote from: Flynt on April 01, 2014, 05:10:01 PM
I think you need to post some bigger pictures…
Frank
Go to the gallery, you can zoom in on them.
I see what appears to be scoring on the cylinder with the piston at the bottom.
Pull the cylinders so you can see the piston skirts and cylinders better.
Randy - RPM
I will pull the pistons when I can find replacement rings... I'm gonna try some oil in the cylinders tomorrow... Maybe it might solve the compression...
Quote from: racerrad8 on April 01, 2014, 06:03:04 PM
Go to the gallery, you can zoom in on them.
Thanks Randy...
Other than the scoring you can't see much here and nothing that looks catastrophic or would give you zero compression... keep looking.
Did you take pics of the head as well? Definitely doesn't look like the valves hit the pistons... not sure how they'd be bent. They could be partially open just from poor/no valve adjustments?
Frank
The pics in full size:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4013_01_04_14_1_28_59_0.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4013_01_04_14_1_29_02_1.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4013_01_04_14_1_29_05_2.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4013_01_04_14_1_29_07_3.jpeg)
Yeah, I agree with most here...no smoking gun short of a little scoring of the cylinder walls on that last pic.
Watching this thread with great interest...
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: Capn Ron on April 01, 2014, 07:59:52 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/4013_01_04_14_1_29_05_2.jpeg)
Take back what I said... your intake valves hit the top of that piston at least (thanks for the big pics Ron). I'd bet you have some bent intakes (and a cam timing problem of some sort).
Frank
You can see the carbon displaced on the piston down in the hole too on the intake side.
Did you check the cam timing before you removed the cams?
Randy - RPM
Yes... I did check cam timing... It looks like it skipped a gear tooth or two... Removed cam and saw no broken teeth....
exaust side looked fine on timing and the gear... Will look a little further tomorrow...
Thanks everyone for all the posts:)... She fired up today:).... What the most awesome music to my ears to here the engine run for the first time in a few years...
Wow has it been a long time since i been on this forum.. completely forgot about it honestly... did enjoy the old FJ for about a year or so after i got it back running.. but sadly it got sold few months ago... went and tried my luck on a cruzer and am enjoying it very well.. 2001 vstar 650 classic.. kinda decided to slow down for a while becuz the fj just about nearly killed me
Hey mike what part of Louisiana are u from, I live in the Covington area, I have a 1992 fj 1200....so how did you like the accel coils
Quote from: yambutt on February 05, 2019, 11:56:23 PM
Hey mike what part of Louisiana are u from, I live in the Covington area, I have a 1992 fj 1200....so how did you like the accel coils
Those coils worked very well with no issues.. im living in the natchitoches parrish area..