first time post , been reading a lot here for almost 2 months before I bought my FJ. After owning an 89 FJ1200 for 3 weeks and loving every minute of it, I have ran into a carb issue that scared me to death while riding today. I was sitting at a red light and noticed my idle slowly dropping and the bike started to stumble. I gave it a quick blip and it revved to 6k and slowly went back to a normal idle and then started to load up again. I rode it home (runs fine above 1500rpm) and fuel was dripping from one of the overflow lines and after 10 minutes I tried to start it and it seems hydrolocked and now my oil level has risen by quite a bit, ok so there is fuel in my oil now, and it's off to a great bike mechanic I know. Could it be a stuck needle valve or float problem, fuel pump? Is this a known issue with these bikes? The bike did this once a week ago but it stopped when I fixed a broken T fitting coming off the front of the fuel tank and tapping the float bowls, I don't know if the T fitting caused the initial overflow or if tapping of the bowls stopped it the first time. thanks for any advice.
Sounds just like you have one or more needles with some crap keeping it from closing fully. It happens on carb equipped bikes. The last time I saw this we fixed it by draining the offending bowl, and when it filled back up it flushed the crap out. You can also try tapping on the carbs to get the floats to giggle and possibly dislodge the crap. Others reported a gentle ride off a curb to jostle the fuel around to the same effect.
Welcome ! Yes it sounds like you need to remove the bowls and clean the needle and seats or replace them. There is also an O ring that go's around the needle and seat valves that probably should be replaced. Sounds like you need to dump the oil and change the filter from your description.
With out going into a lengthy "how to" how do you want to approach this ? It isn't that hard if you have a few tools. Lots of help here to guide you through.
Let us know. Also where are you located ?
George
I am located in central Cali (Fresno). Thanks for the quick replies. I was also having some sputter at cruise between 2500-4000 rpm, it has a k&n and old school cobra F1r slip ons. Do you think the stock jetting may be lean for those mods ? If I need parts would 4 of Randy's rebuild kits be the best way to go? I know factory stuff is expensive.
Do you have the stock air box? If you do then stock jetting and needle positions should be OK.
Quote from: holes41 on March 02, 2014, 06:49:32 PMfirst time post , been reading a lot here for almost 2 months before I bought my FJ. After owning an 89 FJ1200 for 3 weeks and loving every minute of it, I have ran into a carb issue that scared me to death while riding today. I was sitting at a red light and noticed my idle slowly dropping and the bike started to stumble. I gave it a quick blip and it revved to 6k and slowly went back to a normal idle and then started to load up again. I rode it home (runs fine above 1500rpm) and fuel was dripping from one of the overflow lines and after 10 minutes I tried to start it and it seems hydrolocked and now my oil level has risen by quite a bit, ok so there is fuel in my oil now, and it's off to a great bike mechanic I know. Could it be a stuck needle valve or float problem, fuel pump? Is this a known issue with these bikes? The bike did this once a week ago but it stopped when I fixed a broken T fitting coming off the front of the fuel tank and tapping the float bowls, I don't know if the T fitting caused the initial overflow or if tapping of the bowls stopped it the first time. thanks for any advice.
Holes41,
The fuel pump should cut off fuel when the key is off, so you have a problem there, also. Yamaha fuel pumps are pricey. Some here have used aftermarket auto fuel pumps; maybe somebody here can give you Part Numbers or sources for the right (proven) units. Beyond that, let us know how you want to proceed on the carbs. Make sure that the cylinder which hydrolocked gets drained, and gets a shot of new motor oil through the spark plug hole, before cranking the engine.
It dripped for a min or 2. Oil level is up but not beyond top of sight glass, if it was fuel pump wouldn't it still be dripping? I don't have a clue, I just need a beer and a break from these worries. Hopefully not fuel pump
The fuel pump will not push fuel past the needles when they are working properly. So I don't think that is your issue. Fuel will leak out of the bowls until the lever drops below the over flow level. Check to make sure fuel is shutting off with your pump. Remove the fuel line at the carbs, route the line so it is lower than the fuel pump, and can spill into a fuel safe container. Naturally if fuel keeps dripping then the pump no longer checks the flow after the ignition is off. If it stops the fuel then you oil may be safe.
Quote from: holes41 on March 02, 2014, 08:05:44 PM
I am located in central Cali (Fresno). Thanks for the quick replies. I was also having some sputter at cruise between 2500-4000 rpm, it has a k&n and old school cobra F1r slip ons. Do you think the stock jetting may be lean for those mods ? If I need parts would 4 of Randy's rebuild kits be the best way to go? I know factory stuff is expensive.
Total rebuild kits ? Do you want to totally rebuild the carbs or just fix the fuel leak ? If you are just wanting to address the fuel leak then I would just buy:
4 needle and seats
4 needle and seat O rings
4 bowl gaskets
If you want to clean and rebuild the carbs totally, then yes complete kits. To include emulsion tubes, adjustable needles etc.. Plus I would install new O rings that go between the intake manifolds and the engine as they are cheap and also probably could use them. There are other optional items that are nice like SS replacement allen head screws. Randy has them and they can be found at most ACE hardware stores. Typically the JIS screws holding the diaphragm covers and bowls can get buggered up easy.
Have you rebuilt carbs before ? Are you comfortable working on them ? Like I said they are not hard just a lot of little details which we can help you with.
As far as the fuel pump, when the engine is off then the built in check valve in the pump should shut the fuel off shortly after power is off.
George
I lack the tools and I've only done single carbs on my dirtbikes . With that being said, I had 2 buddies help me load it in a pick up and take it to a well known local bike mechanic who moonlights at very great prices and it is in great hands. Now the 3 of us need some advil and a heating pad, looking forward to getting back on my baby in a week or two. I will update when I hear some news. Thanks
Let us know how it turns out for you. And if you have any questions be sure to ask.
George
If your mechanic is going to rebuild the carbs, then immediately order one of Randy's carb screw/o-ring kits and take it to him. It'll pay off big time in the future. I'd start off with new o-rings before replacing a bunch of hardware.
do these parts come in the rebuild kits or are they separate?
Quote from: holes41 on March 03, 2014, 07:05:28 PM
do these parts come in the rebuild kits or are they separate?
It is in addition to the kits. Some of the O rings are redundant. The large O rings are the ones that go between the intake manifold and the engine.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit&cat=24 (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit&cat=24)
George
Congratulations on your '89 FJ.
A few years back when Upstate New York transitioned from "real" gas to the "E-10" crap I had a similar problem with my FJ. The alcohol in the gas and the glue in the plastic aftermarket fuel filter were incompatible. The glue broke down and became little balls that played hell with the needle and seats: the needles wouldn't seat! My favorite shop only carries brass filters now.
Good luck,
Anson
I replaced my filter with an OEM one from Yamaha 2 weeks ago, it looks like the one from rpm. Is it comparable with California gas or could it have caused my problem ?
I have had no problem with the stock filter that I had on and so far no problem with the Fram filter I have on now. As a note I do think if you were running straight gas and converted to ethanol then there is a chance of the ethanol cleaning out some varnish from your tank and filter. Just an opinion.
I your repair you might also consider new fuel lines.
George
I have an update, mechanic did a "dry" and "wet" compression check because I wanted him to go over things while he's in there and cylinder #2 was down by 15 or 25 psi I don't remember . all others were in the 140s, he said all cylinders went up 15psi when he added oil to them and we are hoping it is a valve issue. I've got my fingers crossed , if it was rings would #2 have jumped differently than the other 3 ? I appreciate your help. :scratch_one-s_head:
I am sure he will, but I would check the valve clearances on #2 first. 140 is great on the other cylinders. Higher than mine....
Let us know how it comes out.
George
Spot on George. Low compression? Not the rings? No head gasket leaks? Then it's the valves...
As George recommends, check your valves. If you find a tight valve (typically exhaust) on the #2 correct that first, then retake your compression test and see if you get lucky and the compression number comes up....if you are lucky....you just had a valve that wasn't fully closing and the problem is fixed.
If you are unlucky, and the compression number does not improve after the valve adjustment, you can bet you cooked a valve.
A Painful Le$$on: That's why valve adjustments are so important on our large displacement air cooled engines.
BTDT
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 06, 2014, 12:53:12 AM
Spot on George. Low compression? Not the rings? No head gasket leaks? Then it's the valves...
As George recommends, check your valves. If you find a tight valve (typically exhaust) on the #2 correct that first, then retake your compression test and see if you get lucky and the compression number comes up....if you are lucky....you just had a valve that wasn't fully closing and the problem is fixed.
If you are unlucky, and the compression number does not improve after the valve adjustment, you can bet you cooked a valve.
A Painful Le$$on: That's why valve adjustments are so important on our large displacement air cooled engines.
BTDT
I have never had good luck, I hope this is an exception, or I may be parting it out :ireful:
Don't panic. Even is one cylinder is low, I would say ride it for a while. You might be surprised. It's not a new bike. All of my cylinders are on the low side and the plan is just to ride it and do a top end later or wait until a good deal comes up on an engine, whole bike, or set of cylinders and a head lots of options.
Hang in there.
George
Yep, don't panic. I rode my bike for years with compression in the 120's.
Those FJ's engines are stout.
:i_am_so_happy: good news, I have 4 valves that are tight and 2 of them happen to be in the #2 cylinder, looks like I am Lucky for once
Redo the compression test. Let us know what your new numbers are....
Quote from: Pat Conlon on March 06, 2014, 07:03:23 PM
Redo the compression test. Let us know what your new numbers are....
Will do once proper shims are installed. Its been 5 days since my last ride and the withdrawals are killing me!
One more question guys. My diaphragms have no tears or holes, but they are wrinkled up , is this normal? can I add new diaphragms at a later date from the top without a tear down? My budget is the issue, thanks
If you have no holes then they are OK to use, and yes, they can be replaced from the top without removing the carbs. As the slides move up they have to wrinkle, then smooth out when they are down. Some creases will develop and that is where the holes will eventually develop. Many have used liquid electrical tape and a Q-tip to paint both sides of the holes to keep them diaphragms going longer.
Out of curiosity, what are all the hoses and T fittings for coming off the front of the gas tank for? It is a california model if that makes a difference.
Quote from: holes41 on March 08, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
Out of curiosity, what are all the hoses and T fittings for coming off the front of the gas tank for? It is a california model if that makes a difference.
That sounds like what I saw on CA FJ's. It is a vapor control system that uses two charcoal canisters, check valves, bunch of hoses and a solenoid. It controls what direction the vapors go depending on if the engine was running or not.
:wacko3:
Quote from: FJmonkey on March 08, 2014, 11:53:06 PM
Quote from: holes41 on March 08, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
Out of curiosity, what are all the hoses and T fittings for coming off the front of the gas tank for? It is a california model if that makes a difference.
That sounds like what I saw on CA FJ's. It is a vapor control system that uses two charcoal canisters, check valves, bunch of hoses and a solenoid. It controls what direction the vapors go depending on if the engine was running or not.
I replaced a t fitting there that had broke, I was considering going throught those fittings and hoses but being that they are just vapor recovery they won't affect the way it runs , is this correct ?
UPDATE.. parts arrived but everyone make sure you closely inspect your parts, 2 of the carb rebuild kits contained #52.5 pilot jets instead of #42.5, so I went ahead and just ordered 4 #40 pilots. Bike should be done in a few days . I can imagine scratching my temple on that situation if it went undiscovered! :dash2:
Good catch on the jets. Shows you are paying attention. Whats the saying, "trust but verify"...
George
I found another small issue. The internal washer for the oil filter is missing, Yamaha calls it a "washer plate", does anyone know if there is a washer out there that I can find besides from the factory?
I don't know what the dealer wants to charge you, but the washer can be had for $2.00 here. http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1989/FJ1200W/OIL+FILTER/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1989/FJ1200W/OIL+FILTER/parts.html)
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on March 23, 2014, 09:04:32 PM
I don't know what the dealer wants to charge you, but the washer can be had for $2.00 here. http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1989/FJ1200W/OIL+FILTER/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1989/FJ1200W/OIL+FILTER/parts.html)
Fred
Thanks Fred, Its 3.76 at the dealer I just didn't want to wait another 3 days , no luck in my drawer of washers but I will check another local source tomorrow before I order it.
Quote from: holes41 on March 23, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
UPDATE.. parts arrived but everyone make sure you closely inspect your parts, 2 of the carb rebuild kits contained #52.5 pilot jets instead of #42.5.
Did you get those kits from me? If so can you please send the incorrect jets back to me and I will send you out the correct ones. I will credit you for the shipping cost back to me, but I need them to show the manufacture the issue so it does not happen again.
Also, if you change over to the spin on oil filter adapter, you never have to deal with the washer or spring again.
RPM Spin On Oil Filter Adapter (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=spinonfilteradapter/)
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 24, 2014, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: holes41 on March 23, 2014, 05:45:05 PM
UPDATE.. parts arrived but everyone make sure you closely inspect your parts, 2 of the carb rebuild kits contained #52.5 pilot jets instead of #42.5.
Did you get those kits from me? If so can you please send the incorrect jets back to me and I will send you out the correct ones. I will credit you for the shipping cost back to me, but I need them to show the manufacture the issue so it does not happen again.
Also, if you change over to the spin on oil filter adapter, you never have to deal with the washer or spring again.
RPM Spin On Oil Filter Adapter (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=spinonfilteradapter/)
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
Randy I am not sure where my mechanic ordered the kits but if it was from you I can send the 52.5s back if it helps prevent this in the future. Im not worried about shipping costs . we already got 4 #40 pilots and they were shipped super fast so they may be from you, my mechanic is in Hanford and I'm in Fresno. I will be ordering the adapter soon when budget allows as well as your oil cooler kit. You know how these central valley summers are.
Guys I need some help regarding my carbs, the mechanic put everything back together and set the floats to 22.3mm using a float gauge and measured them from the curved edge of the float, he set the screws at 2.5 turns and says the bike runs excellent and rides excellent, jetting seems to be spot on and no leaks,,, until after a 20 mile ride he shuts off the engine, puts the bike on the center stand and there is a drip from 2 of the carbs coming from what Yamaha calls "choke vents" not the overflow. im about at my wits end here, any ideas ? every part in the carbs is new except the diaphragms and floats PLEASE help before I take a sledge hammer to this thing
I am sure others will be here shortly to help out. Sounds like he measured at the correct point but did he do it with the carbs at somewhere between 90 and 70 degrees tilt ? If he did it with the carbs upside down the they are probably out of adjustment. Voice of experience...
Other than that the usual check, clean the needle and seats and new o rings, sticking floats... Hopefully just an adjustment. If two of them are leaking I would look at the float adjustment.
Have faith when it is running correctly it will be fine.
George
Quote from: movenon on March 24, 2014, 10:41:24 PM
I am sure others will be here shortly to help out. Sounds like he measured at the correct point but did he do it with the carbs at somewhere between 90 and 70 degrees tilt ? If he did it with the carbs upside down the they are probably out of adjustment. Voice of experience...
Other than that the usual check, clean the needle and seats and new o rings, sticking floats... Hopefully just an adjustment. If two of them are leaking I would look at the float adjustment.
Have faith when it is running correctly it will be fine.
George
Thanks George, he also said it seemed like there was pressure but I didn't understand what he meant. Could it be something with the Ca emissions equipment?
Pressure ? Perhaps fuel pressure from the fuel pump ? What is he going to do about it ?
George
Quote from: movenon on March 24, 2014, 11:40:32 PM
Pressure ? Perhaps fuel pressure from the fuel pump ? What is he going to do about it ?
George
I told him there was talk on here of the fuel cap issues and he said that was one of the 1st things he did was the flapectomy, he wants to check all my smog stuff and if he has to hes going to pull the carbs again and redo the float adjustment, I am not sure if he did it upside down or not. He currently builds alcohol motors and other race related builds but he began his career as either a Honda or Yamaha factory technician in the 80s, his reputation here is well known in the amateur racing circuit, I didn't want the shadetree tweaker touching my bike lol. I have faith he will nail it, it just hasn't gone smooth like id hoped. For the generous discount he is giving me I hate to see him put another 4 hrs into this but it may just have to be. The good news is its runs perfect , just drips from choke vents on 2 carbs. I wouldn't think new needles/seats and orings would be sticking especially on multiple carbs
Wouldn't too high of a float adjustment cause a drip from the overflow tubes instead of the choke vents ?
I talked to the tech this morning and we covered everything that he needs to check & resolve. I think once he checks & adjusts a few things you will be ready to go.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on March 25, 2014, 12:03:12 PM
I talked to the tech this morning and we covered everything that he needs to check & resolve. I think once he checks & adjusts a few things you will be ready to go.
Randy - RPM
You're the best Randy. We are very fortunate to have you.... :good2:
Randy always goes above and beyond. When I popped in to get work done on my bike he was still moving into his new shop and running his business. He took the time to haul my butt back and forth from my hotel and to breakfast,lunch and dinner too. He also did extra things on my bike I had't even thought of. Yes we are lucky to have Randy. However I honestly don"t know when the man sleeps! :good2: Thanks Randy Dave
Thanks Randy, and thanks for all who chimmed in. the support here is fantastic. :good2:
during reassembly my choke cable broke, ordered a new one from randy at rpm, is there still an exhaust system in development ? I cant find it on RPM website.
Quote from: holes41 on March 26, 2014, 07:59:56 PM
during reassembly my choke cable broke, ordered a new one from randy at rpm, is there still an exhaust system in development ? I cant find it on RPM website.
Cable left today, you should have it tomorrow.
Yes, I received the tracking information of hopefully the final piece of the system. If it fits properly, production will start as soon as possible.
Randy - RPM
YAY :good2: I got the bike back and it runs completely different, power seems the same at WOT but it runs flawlessly, if I didn't know any better I'd swear it had efi , the old girl still let me know her age by teasing me with a new little quirk the speedo started bouncing a little, im gonna ride it like I stole it for now and lube it in a few days, thanks for all the help everyone!
Congrats! Enjoy the kookaloo!
For your newest issue:
fjowners.wikidot.com/gauges