Hey everyone, i have kind of a noob question. i just replaced all of the clutch friction plates and steel plates on my 85. now it wont go into any gear. is there a diagram that anyone knows of that i can use to make sure i did it right? i just bought this a month ago and the entire clutch boss was pulled out. I did find one diagram and put ti together from that but it wasnt to detailed. Also what would be the best way to bleed the clutch lever / slave. sorry if this was already asked, i tried to read through to find it but couldnt. thanks
Here's some information that might help.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0)
George
IF your clutch pushrod is not fully releasing the pressure plate, you will have difficulty in changing any gears. If there is air in the clutch line, you won't get a full release.
Best way to bleed the clutch?? Don't know, but here's one good way:
Drain as much clutch fluid as possible from the bleeder on the slave.
Refill the system from that slave bleeder (wrap it with teflon tape so it doesn't leak) with a large hypodermic syringe till the clutch master reservoir is about 1/2 full.
Tie the clutch lever to the bar overnight, and tap all along the clutch line to dislodge any air bubbles.
Now, bleed as normal if necessary.
Local farm stores usually have the syringes. Just bought one today for 2.00.
George
You need to expand on the description "won't go into any gear."
Does this mean the shifter won't move, or it does move but doesn't engage any gears, or it engages gears, but the bike won't go.
Does the clutch lever feel like it has pressure? Did you have this problem before the repair?
Your description makes no sense. The clutch shouldn't affect the shift lever's ability to stir the gears in the transmission.
The clutch will make a difference on whether the crank power/rotation will be transmitted to the transmission input shaft.
sorry, yes it wont go into any gear what so ever, the shifter moves but will not engage in any gear. when i try it the foot lever wont slip into any gear. it dosent matter if the key is on or not. i had it going into second and neutral before i started it up, but after i ran it for about a minute it wont go into anything. i tried bleeding it like i do for breaks on a car, but the lever still has no pressure.
Again, the ability to change gears is totally separate from the function of the clutch. Sounds like something is not assembled correctly.
Put the bike on the centerstand and rotate the rear wheel while changing gears. Sometimes when static with nothing moving the gears will not properly mesh giving the impression that the gear shift lever is not doing anything. Slightly rotating the rear wheel can help the gears mesh.
Report back
Just a question. By and below the clutch slave cylinder is the paint in good shape or all peeled ? Have you pulled the clutch slave off yet ?
George
Note: If you remove the slave cylinder do not start the engine. There is a push rod and a ball bearing behind the slave. If you start the engine it will eject the rod and small ball bearing.... The rod you will probably find, the bearing might be a problem..
ok on the center stand i can get it to engage in all gears without the clutch handle getting pulled, and as for the paint, just a little is missing from where i bled it out. i didnt start the engine until everything was reassembled. and i found the ball down in the oil and put it back on the clutch boss side. The only thing i really didnt do was torque the bolts on the outside spring plate. i tightened them till snug. im gonna ask one of the guys at where i work to borrow an inch lb torque wrench tomorrow as i havent been able to add that to my collection yet.
Bad slave cylinder. See RPM Randy for a rebuild kit
Or it's just not bled correctly.
Kind of sounds like that. I would kit it first and then see where your at.
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK)
New cylinders are also available.
George
George,
I thought it was established that the ball will not be ejected if started with the slave not installed. Those that reported doing this simply had to reinstall the pushrod. The ball bearing was not ejected.
You're not going to be able to make a decent diagnosis until you get lever pressure on the clutch
not sure if it matters but every time i pull the clutch lever i have bubbles comming out. i have done this for about a half an hour and am still getting bubbles. Oh and Thank you all for the help, if you are ever in or around dublin ohio and need help with your cars let me know. i work at mr tire off bridge street
Quote from: scott ele on February 19, 2014, 09:03:56 PM
The only thing i really didnt do was torque the bolts on the outside spring plate. i tightened them till snug
You may well have hydraulic issues, but those clutch bolts are only tightened to 8nm's, that's not much more than finger tight and DIY's are notorious for over tightening everything, you know, just to be sure!
Quote from: scott ele on February 19, 2014, 07:27:56 PM
.....i just bought this a month ago and the entire clutch boss was pulled out.
Am I reading this correctly that you bought the bike with the clutch already disassembled?
Clutch bleeding seems to give a lot of trouble here. The clutch line is short and all uphill so it will naturally want to self bleed. Even if you can get just enough lever to make it rideable, a bit of riding with engine vibrations and use will see it come up nicely in a very short time. It is possible to waste a lot of time and fluid trying to get the lever perfect in the garage.
Noel
yep. i bought it with the clutch dissembled already. it was to good of a deal to pass up, especially since i work in a auto shop. but alas i have found out that motorcycles while running off the same ideals as cars are different from autos.
Tie or tape the clutch lever all the way back to the hand grip and leave it over night. Many have reported good results after doing this.
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 20, 2014, 11:50:00 AM
Tie or tape the clutch lever all the way back to the hand grip and leave it over night. Many have reported good results after doing this.
I thought we de-bunked this also? Pulling the lever blocks the self-bleeding that Noel suggests.
I think the key to "tie the lever back overnight" is the OVERNIGHT part. The same result will be had in simply walking away for the same period of time and letting gravity do the work.
I thought the valve closed with the lever fully in so I have always tied it in half way. It must be open at some point otherwise you wouldnt see bubbles when you pump the lever. It has worked for me and the levers feel definately firmer . Maybe it gets the air out quicker than just leaving it or through the normal action of operating the lever and is therefore more noticeable when u first use it
Quote from: stua1959 on February 20, 2014, 03:27:11 PM
I thought the valve closed with the lever fully in so I have always tied it in half way. It must be open at some point otherwise you wouldnt see bubbles when you pump the lever. It has worked for me and the levers feel definately firmer . Maybe it gets the air out quicker than just leaving it or through the normal action of operating the lever and is therefore more noticeable when u first use it
I`d hate ta turn this inta an oil thread (not!). Generally the air bubbles shrink under pressure so lowering the available surface tension area of individual bubbles, so minimising their grip on the sides (inside lines).. Allows more of them ta bump their way up the line overnight, ready for you ta pump them out on the very first lever movement. :drinks:
But this is ALWAYS recommended when someone can NOT get any lever pressure.
I've always found patience and gravity work, it may take a little time if the system is totally empty. Also, don't stroke the lever, simply tapping it will tease the air up and out.
Also, air doesn't have surface tension, a fluid has surface tension.
The initial <05mm movement of the master cylinder piston blocks the reservior so it doesn't matter if it's a half pull or full pull. It's the time factor!
ok tried zip tieing the lever down last night, still had bubbles this morning. i stood there pulling the lever and finally have some pressure but still have a few bubbles when i let up. I do still have to spin the rear wheel for it to go into any gear. im gonna order the slave, but in the meantime is there any other possibilities that it could be? Thanks again everyone for your help
How hard is this to understand? If you don't have ALL the air out of your clutch (or ANY hydraulic system) it's not going to work correctly. If you've still got air coming up into the reservoir, then there's still air in the line and your clutch WON'T work. If the clutch isn't working correctly then you won't be able to shift (unless you're good at shifting without a working clutch).
There's no shortcut. Bleed/pump it until there are no more bubbles! Check the slave cylinder to see if it is leaking. If it's leaking then repair or replace it. If it's not leaking then keep bleeding air out of the system. As a mechanic, you should know this.l
Quote from: scott ele on February 20, 2014, 12:15:00 AM
yep. i bought it with the clutch dissembled already. it was to good of a deal to pass up, especially since i work in a auto shop. but alas i have found out that motorcycles while running off the same ideals as cars are different from autos.
Scott, in your shop, do you have a vacuum pump you use on brake lines? If not, you should.
1 word: MityVac.
Buy one. Every shop needs one. They are inexpensive and they work. No more bubbles.
A very similar thread here for your reference. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9092.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9092.0)
ok, update time. i have replaced the slave, removed the master cylinder from the line, back bleed the line out. bench bled the master, connected the two with new crush washers and bled it out. i have no bubbles that i can see. when i start it up and pull the handle i can shift into first let off the clutch and dont move. the bike dosent stall but it is not transfering the power from some reason. the only places i have found as any help were on here on how to stack the gears. i did notice that the wire holder that is supposed to be for first gear i think, was just sitting in the holes and lines where it was put. should that be holding something back that im missing? or did i miss tightening some weird part? once again thanks for the help and im sorry if its often asked questions, this is the first bike i have worked on. aslo we had a bleeder but i got the mighty vac insted cause ours was about ten years old. so thanks for that one :)
Hey again all. I found out what my problem was. It was me forgetting to put the first friction plate, then the steel plate, then the little wire holder on. I was putting that on first. I feel ashamed lol. But again thanks for all the advice. Have a good season and be safe.
Scott, throw the wire away, don't reinstall it. We covered this quite clearly in the Clutch Files.