I replaced all the bushes and pivots in the shock linkage around February 2013, and as I was removing the stock Fj shock to install a Honda F4i shock, I noticed what I think to be excessive wear from just a year of use. During the year I may have done around 10 to 15000 kms.
Everything was greased prior to installation. Have other people come across this? Should I re-grease with a different type of grease? I do not want to spend another $350 for bushes in a year or so.
Opinions would be much appreciated.
Cheers, Gareth
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/1121_30_01_14_12_04_59.jpeg)
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As I've said before....Take those '84/85 grease bushings and throw them away. They are a poor design.
Convert over to the superior needle bearings used on the '86/87 linkage.
That doesn't look too bad. Just a little wear and some scoring. Mine on my '85 looked like yours, and all was good after a thorough cleaning, lube and assembly.
Just clean up the scoring with some 800 or so grit emery cloth. Use a good grease when thoroughly lubing.
Since you'll have the shock off, grab a hold of the swingarm and twist and pull on it. If you don't feel any excessive perceptible play in it, the clearances in all your pivot points are good. Not sure if you took the swingarm off too, and cleaned and lubed its bearings, bearing surfaces, and seals or not, but if you haven't I'd recommend doing it now since you're in this deep in this area. Torque everything up properly, and you'll be good to go.
No use in spending your money (and doing extra work) on something that is not needed.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 30, 2014, 01:45:46 AM
As I've said before....Take those '84/85 grease bushings and throw them away. They are a poor design.
Convert over to the superior needle bearings used on the '86/87 linkage.
I will be converting over to needles later, instead of buying more "impossible to find" bushes.
I am currently trying to source some molybedenum disulfide grease, as specified in the service manual, I am hoping using that grease will offer better life expectancy for the bushes and pivot currently in place.
I might also do the swingarm.... sometimes I think this bike get more attention than the wife!
Cheers, Gareth
Gareth, a couple of Q's:
Do you do a lot of wet weather riding?
Is there anything you might have done to wash or dilute the grease in the bushings? Pressure washing?
What grease did you use?
The grease bushings when serviced, are very low friction, thus the hot ticket for a track bike where service work is done frequently....However, on a street bike, where service is less frequent it's a different story. Especially bikes operating in wet climates.
The needle bearings while slightly higher in friction, retain the grease better, thus the change on the '87+ FJs
Anyway, that's the way it was explained to me 25 years ago. I changed my '84 back in '90, no problems since.
G'day,
I do ride in wet weather, but the grease I use is great in that it sticks like glue, no water gets past it, unless of course you use a pressure washer, which I have'nt.
From the little bit of research I have been doing, non-lithium based molybedenum disulfide grease is best for use in bushes as it has exceptional "crush" resistance. Whereas the grease I have used, and most people use, is perhaps best for bearings, roller or needle.
I am having a hard time finding some moly grease that does not include lithium. Cannot get Yamalube moly grease in Australia.
Cheers, Gareth
Quote from: mr blackstock on January 30, 2014, 05:56:07 PM
....Cannot get Yamalube moly grease in Australia.
Is it not allowed or you just can't find it? If the latter, perhaps RPM Randy can send you a tub?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 30, 2014, 06:03:54 PM
Is it not allowed or you just can't find it? If the latter, perhaps RPM Randy can send you a tub?
This is the only grease you will ever need.
Redline Synthetic Grease (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SynGrease)
I swear by this stuff for everything I have to grease except for internal engine parts as it will not melt and will stay solidified if use internally, just look at the drop point temp...
Heck ,I know guys who used it on their door hinges in their home and now the doors swing so freely they will never stay in one position as the wind walking by them allows them to move...
Randy - RPM
I can get redline locally also, thanks for the tip!
Should it be used in place of molybedenum disulfide grease? Have you used CV2 for shock linkages?
Redline also stock assembly lube, this extract from their site "...Three times greater film strength than conventional black molybdenum disulfide greases..." Should I use this?
Cheers, Gareth
Quote from: mr blackstock on January 30, 2014, 08:25:37 PM
Should it be used in place of molybedenum disulfide grease? Have you used CV2 for shock linkages?
Redline also stock assembly lube, this extract from their site "...Three times greater film strength than conventional black molybdenum disulfide greases..." Should I use this?
Yes, I use it on all of my swing arm bearings, wheel & steering head bearings, speedo cables and anything else that needs to be greased.
No, the assembly lube is more for internal engine work to cling to surfaces at start up and then dissolve with the engine oil, the grease will not do that.
Randy - RPM
The markings on the pin don't appear to have any depth to them (the bush is much softer than the pin) but it is not an appropriate design for that application and is probably why Yamaha dumped it so soon.
Yes, it is important to use the right grease, but don't over think it.
To expect any reasonable service life it needs to be greased regularly and would benefit greatly from grease nipples (and bushes that allow the distribution of it)
Why are the bushes so expensive?
As for Yamalube, I have never seen a vehicle branded lubricant that is anything other than off the shelf stuff under a different name.
Assembly lube is just that, assembly lube for engines.
I just use Moly grease for all these sorts of jobs.
In my opinion, an arrangement like this is not a "grease and forget" proposition. These parts move enough to cause wear but not enough to keep the grease moving around.
Try not lubricating king pins on a car regularly (same design) and see how long they last.
If this was my bike and I intended to keep the current set up I would definitely put grease nipples in it.
More so than oil, grease is much more task specific, so using an appropriate one will give a better result, but don't get too fussy.
Noel
Last time I used Yamalube Marine Grease I got from the local boat dealer. Next time (very soon) I will give the Red Line a shot in the 1990 FJ. Probably a lot of swing arms that need to be serviced.
George
Thanks for the replies guys.
I think I will just get some redline CV2 grease. The only molybedenum disulfide grease available easily only has around 3-5% moly content, the molybedenum with higher moly content is either too expensive, or cannot be ordered in small amounts, and no-one has any locally, such as Honda 60 moly paste, or loctite moly paste.
I guess in a year or two I will just do the needle bearing conversion. Thanks for all the help, who would have thought it would be so hard to get a specific grease.
Cheers, Gareth
Why would I want to use Red Line Grease? If you check the MSDS for CV2 it says an olefin sulfide with organic. According to the grease industry this is a polyalphaolefin with molybedenum disulfide. "Olefin" is the synthetic grease in widespread use because it has better properties than grease made from refined petroleum . Stronger adhesive properties, higher temperature drop and more resistant to water wash out. Used in a variety of names and brands. Any one heard of Mobil 1? Same stuff. Just like oil ( Lets don't go there) different additives are added for different purposes. The US armed forces uses a grease for all their light armament (not the G word) called CLP. It is Olefin with teflon added because a heavy duty lubricant is not needed. When a heavier use grease is needed molybedenum is added. There is a grease manufactoring plant in Rockwall Texas that cannot keep up with demand and are doubling the size of the plant. Their main customer is the railroad.They manufacture tons of polyalphaolefin. Someone must think its good stuff. I think I'll use it. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on January 31, 2014, 12:54:30 AM
.......Just like oil ( Lets don't go there).........
Dave
No need, you're doing a mighty fine job with grease.
The saga continues! I phoned up Bursons auto supplies looking for redline grease, and even though the web says they supply it, after phoning three stores to be told it is unavailable, one of the sales guys at last told me that Bursons will not order the product because redline only supply the grease in cartons of 24, and he said the stores simply cannot move that many tubes of grease, therefore they will not order it for customers. He suggested I contact a high performance garage to see if they sell it.
Thats when I called it quits! :mad: On the way home from work I stopped at the thieving mongrels "repco" and bought a tube of Castrol spheerol LMM. I am aware that I could order from overseas, but I ride the bike to work, and a month off the road is no good.
I have already dismantled the shock linkages, soon I will clean and reassemble. In a years time I will rip it all apart and look at the difference in wear.
It really does piss me off that in a world with hundreds of options and products available, it is still so hard to get any of it. Hell, I can buy different stuff in the U.S via fleabay, but the postage is over the top and takes almost a month to arrive. The U.K is not much better. :diablo:
So, bugger it. I will use products that big companies have decided are what I need, I will believe advertising, I will not think outside the square, I will not explore different ways of doing things, I will forsake small companies with great products. :dash2:
But I am going to go the needle bearing conversion..... :good2:
Cheers, Gareth
Sorry to hear about all the problems Gareth. I haven't read the spec's but in the past I have also used Amsoil syn. grease. The old FJ Yamaha service manual that I am looking at says to use "Lithium soap based grease" service at 19,000 km (12,000 miles) or every 19 months.....
There are a LOT better greases to use now days for sure, I just wanted to tell you what I read. There is a Red Line distributor down the road from here I will stop by next time I head that direction. I stopped by there place last summer and it was wall to wall Red line box's, I made a comment that it looked like the Red Line sales guy got to you :), he laughed and no we are a distributor. They are also an import car parts dealer.
For anyone that hasn't done the job it's not that hard to do.
George
Gareth, I can understand our Northern snow bound, ice bound, temperature bound colleagues with their enforced off season and suffering from PMS and cabin fever making a big deal out this but this Orstraylya mate.
The high load, low speed, limited movement of this makes a chassis grease the right choice.
Go to an agricultural machinery dealer or heavy transport truck joint and ask them for a paper cup full of whatever they use for chassis lubrication. It's a fair bet they have researched out the good stuff to look after their million dollar machines.
There are no shortage of these places up your way.
DO NOT ask a farmer!
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on January 31, 2014, 06:42:42 PM
Go to an agricultural machinery dealer or heavy transport truck joint and ask them for a paper cup full of whatever they use for chassis lubrication. It's a fair bet they have researched out the good stuff to look after their million dollar machines.
DO NOT ask a farmer!
Noel
Are you implying that most/many farmers will use whatever crap they find at the supermarket or Kmart as long as its cheap? OR are you saying they won't use anything and will wait for the shaft to wear through?
Gee, you don't seem to have a high opinion of the "man on the land".
Thats a really good tip about the agricultural companies, I imagine they would have everything needed, from grease to additives to silicone.
I might even phone up a couple of local places to see if they sell stuff off the shelf. Thanks for the tip.
Cheers, Gareth
Here's some Red Line dealers in OZ. I notice that a lot of bicycle shops also use it (they are into reduceing friction)
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=111287070568622443956.0004839adf48b0af5c306 (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=111287070568622443956.0004839adf48b0af5c306)
George :drinks:
Quote from: Arnie on January 31, 2014, 06:46:55 PM
Are you implying that most/many farmers will use whatever crap they find at the supermarket or Kmart as long as its cheap? OR are you saying they won't use anything and will wait for the shaft to wear through?
Gee, you don't seem to have a high opinion of the "man on the land".
A farmer wouldn't bother with the trip to town, he would find something on the property, sheep dip, molasses, anything, as long as it was sticky and the right colour and he would find a way to incorporate baling twine and fencing wire into it.
Or, as you say, ignore it until it breaks then start hunting around for baling twine and fencing wire.......
I have an extremely high opinion of the "man on the land" for their self sufficiency, resilience and tenacity. I have seen many examples of ingenuity, cobbling things together to keep them running, that are truly brilliant. They are also masters of adapting unrelated parts to a job. Just give him a bigger hammer and drag out the oxy!
Unencumbered by knowing the right way to fix something, they just do what seems obvious with what they can find lying around. The price of these sort of repairs appeals to them too, and no down time.
Give a farmer an old arc welder, a few basic tools, a very big hammer and decades worth of discarded farm implements and junk (and some baling twine and fencing wire) and they can fix anything.
Farmers are very well represented as inventors too. Having to find their own solutions most of the time out of necessity, it conditions their minds to think that way.
It is also the most dangerous job in the country with more accidental deaths (by a lot) than any other profession.
Noel
Just making do with what you have :lol:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/1651_31_01_14_10_09_33.jpeg)
George
I picked up a tub (14oz) of Red line CV-2 locally here for 11.95 (12.67 with tax). Probably last me a long time.... I will get a tube of it when my grease gun is empty.
George
Red line, first saw when I worked in the hospital laundry. You couldn't get it to melt heating it on a spoon but use it on the big ole steam ironer and it would run
like water
Quote from: bcguide on February 04, 2014, 12:59:32 AM
Red line, first saw when I worked in the hospital laundry. You couldn't get it to melt heating it on a spoon but use it on the big ole steam ironer and it would run
like water
They advertise a 800 degree drop point! The distributor said they use it a lot in CV joint's. I will give the stuff a try in my swing arm bearings when I get that far.
George