I have a 91 FJ1200 I bought a little over a month ago. Only 17,000 miles. This thing runs incredibly good. No cold start problems. Sounds really smooth. I'm averaging about 27 mpg and I ride it easy. Is this normal for this model?
Running well, not difficult to start, comes off of choke quickly, no backfiring when the throttle is chopped. I would say the carbs are ok, and to check the size of your sprockets.
OEM rear sprocket is 40 teeth. The front OEM should be a 17 tooth sprocket. My guess would be that you have a 47 tooth rear sprocket.
Fred
No, 40+ MPG is the norm. If the sprockets as Fred mentioned are stock, then you definitely have a carb issue.
Randy - RPM
My 86 runs an 18 front 46 rear and regularly gets 42mpg regardless of how I ride it. Sounds like yours is too thirsty. Perhaps it's the float heights - Pat? Randy?
Quote from: andyoutandabout on December 02, 2013, 07:43:46 PM
My 86 runs an 18 front 46 rear and regularly gets 42mpg regardless of how I ride it. Sounds like yours is too thirsty. Perhaps it's the float heights - Pat? Randy?
46 tooth rear sprocket !!! It'd be great for acceleration, but what's it like on the highway, I'm always clicking up thinking I'm in fourth gear, and that's with a 17/39 combo.
Tony.
When I first bought the FJ1200 I had crap economy (around 30mpg imp), the standard air filter / box were the problem, once I got rid of these 350/400km (normal touring) per tank full is the norm (1989 3CV). I'm not saying this is your problem but its worth considering.
Wow! :shok: At 27 MPG you must be dumping fuel on the ground. I have 18/38 gearing and getting better than 45 MPG. I was getting closer to 50 MPG with stock pipes and air box. Now I have UNI pods, Supper Trap slip-ons and re-jetted carbs. Start with the simple stuff, make sure your choke turns off fully. Having this partially on will suck more fule than normal. Float levels can be checked with the carbs on, just need some clear tubing that fits the drain tube on the bowl.
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 03, 2013, 09:05:40 AMWow! :shok: At 27 MPG you must be dumping fuel on the ground. I have 18/38 gearing and getting better than 45 MPG. Start with the simple stuff, make sure your choke turns off fully. Having this partially on will suck more fule than normal. Float levels can be checked with the carbs on, just need some clear tubing that fits the drain tube on the bowl.
ih78100,
The FJmonkey may be onto the real issue here, which could be the choke system sticking, or a cracked fuel line or fuel connection, somewhere. Check everything for leaks, from the tank to the carbs, even the hard tubing which the fuel lines run into. Turn on the key (do not start the engine), to get your fuel pump into the act. Even if you do not see gas leaking, if the fuel pump keeps running slowly, you have a leak somewhere. You may have one bad needle-and-seat, also. If you keep hearing the fuel pump, and can not find a leak, block off the fuel lines into the carbs, and see if that will stop the fuel pump. If the leak continues (fuel pump still runs), at least you will know that the needles-and-seats are not the problem, then. If all that checks out good, then you may have a carb float problem. Let us know what you find.
Cheers,
Red
When I turn on the key, the fuel pump comes on for a second or two then pressures up and stops. When cold and the choke is completely off, the bike idles at around 300 rpm, warmed up around 1000 rpm. Don't think the choke is the issue but could be. I don't smell any gas around the bike when first started or when getting off after a ride. Don't see any leaks below the bike after sitting all day at work or all night at home. Maybe it's the gearing. At 55mph i'm running close to 4500 rpms in 5th gear. Hate to get into the carbs since it runs like a cherry other than sucking gas like a dang car.
Quote from: ih781000 on December 03, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
When I turn on the key, the fuel pump comes on for a second or two then pressures up and stops. When cold and the choke is completely off, the bike idles at around 300 rpm, warmed up around 1000 rpm. Don't think the choke is the issue but could be. I don't smell any gas around the bike when first started or when getting off after a ride. Don't see any leaks below the bike after sitting all day at work or all night at home. Maybe it's the gearing. At 55mph i'm running close to 4500 rpms in 5th gear. Hate to get into the carbs since it runs like a cherry other than sucking gas like a dang car.
What kind of riding? Around town stop and go or freeway?
George
At 70 MPH my RPMs are around 3500, your gearing is affecting some of your mileage but not all of it. Mike "Skymasteres" rode with me on Sunday with gearing similar to yours based on speed and RPM and his mileage was only slightly worse than mine.
From the list of bikes in your sig, I'm going to assume you spin wrenches and know your way around bikes in general.
Sounds like the bike is very rich at idle - especially if it starts without choke (and stays running at 300 RPM - holy cam chain backlash batman!). Being that rich at idle will definitely kill gas mileage - especially around town.
First, like has been covered, make sure the chokes are off. Based on the 300 RPM idle cold, I'm thinking he "chokes" are off (the FJ "choke" is an enrichment circuit that supplies a lot more fuel to richer the mixture AND supplies more air for a fast idle while it warms up).
I see the pipe - do you have stock air box or pod air filters?
Do you know if the PO installed a jet kit? Or rejetted the carbs? I'd so, do you know the jet kit installed? Which company the needles are from? If the pilot jet was changed?
Most importantly - when warmed up - how does it respond to the blip test? Give the throttle a good blip at idle and watch how the engine returns to idle. If it hangs above idle for a moment and then settles back down, then it is lean -- try a 1/4 turn out on the idle mixture. Repeat. (Really don't think will be the issue from your description!).
If it drops below idle speed momentarily and then climbs back up, it is rich -- turn the idle screws in 1/4 turn to lean the idle. Repeat. (Note - the idle screws are fuel screws, not air bleed screws as on some other carbs you may be familiar with). I wouldn't make more than a 1/2 turn total change without a good test ride. If it runs good, then try another 1/4 turn. Repeat until you are happy with it or it starts running worse at that engine range (idle to about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle). If the idle is as rich as it sounds like it is, you may have to make a small needle adjustment if the PO has lowered the needle trying to compensate for too rich of an idle.
Best results will come from synching the carbs (and a good cleaning - almost can't clean them enough...).
Lots of good carb info in the files section too
Good luck and please let us know how it's going.
Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like a little wrenching is in order this weekend. Will let you know the outcome. (May not happen this weekend as we are expecting snow and ice Thursday thru Saturday so I could not test drive)
That sort of result usually means a simple leak.
Be interesting to see what you come up with.
I just saw this thread boy oh boy my bike eats gas as well and I thought it ran splendidly It needs choke to start when cold blips nicely when warm. I think the fuel gauge is bonkers but when I throw $15.0 in the tank and bring the fuel up to a little below the filler and ride a few klicks its back down to where I started.
I got to travel with cash all the time with this bike I worry about getting stranded.
Chiz
Quote from: ih781000 on December 03, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
At 55mph i'm running close to 4500 rpms in 5th gear.
I think you need to count the teeth on your sprockets. That's like 3rd gear on a normally geared FJ!
What is the recommended front/rear sprocket numbers? I see on ebay I can get a chain/front/rear set for $99. They are 17 front, 40 rear. Is that a good combo? What is stock on these?
Much as I hate to say it, be a bit cautious about buying ebay sprockets. Some of the very cheapest are ...erm... made very cheapest, with problems of geometry. More importantly, do not put a cheap chain on an FJ, as you WILL destroy it. You're going to be spending $200 minimum on the final drive, probably closer to $250. The FJ is tremendously hard on chains and will cheerfully snap anything less than a high-end item. Hate yourself for spending the money, but buy an EK ZZZ chain, and you'll not only notice that it needs adjustment very rarely, but that it'll last for a long time.... and will be cheaper per mile than a less robust item. That's of course assuming that the cheap chain won't destroy the engine cases when it breaks (sometimes you get lucky).
Stock varied with year, but 17/40, give or take a rear tooth was original. I'd just say screw it and buy from Randy. A large number of members here run the 18t front sprocket (this one (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFDS)) with good results, paired with a 38-40ish rear (like these (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RearSprocket)). I think going 18/42 would be a good compromise, though a longer chain would likely be necessary (112 links should get you there).
The larger sprockets you run, the more chain you need to wrap around them (obviously!) and it'll be significantly easier for the chain to make the tight turn and last longer, at the cost of a few extra chain links and a negligable amount of extra rotating mass.
Can't stress it enough though. The FJ doesn't suffer fools when it comes to chains. Go big, or be prepared to break the chain, possibly wrecking the engine as well as potentially crashing when the tire is oiled.
+1 Listen to Andy :good:
I saw somewhere on the forum where a EK ZZZ chain can be had for ~$130.
That's chump change for a top of the line, beefy tostada chain.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 05, 2013, 05:29:56 PM
+1 Listen to Andy :good:
I saw somewhere on the forum where a EK ZZZ chain can be had for ~$130.
That's chump change for a top of the line, beefy tostada chain.
http://www.indysuperbikes.com/customer/product.php?productid=700059&cat=0&page=1 (http://www.indysuperbikes.com/customer/product.php?productid=700059&cat=0&page=1)
I use the sprocket guy web site. Good, or were last time I looked, prices on DID chains and sprockets.
BTW, there's something up with your gearing - my 18T front, 46T rear runs 4,000rpm at 60mph, which I really like. The acceleration is snappy, and the hiway buzz is acceptable (5,000 gives about 75 mph).
Andy
What size tyre are you using? I just used the gear commander to see what your sprockets are for that rpm / mph combination.
53mph @ 4450 = 16/52 sprockets, (not likely!!) or 14/44, there are quite a few permutations!!!. Something odd is going on here?
Quote from: ELIMINATOR on December 07, 2013, 03:47:07 AM
What size tyre are you using? I just used the gear commander to see what your sprockets are for that rpm / mph combination.
53mph @ 4450 = 16/52 sprockets, (not likely!!) or 14/44, there are quite a few permutations!!!. Something odd is going on here?
Could it be the clutch is slipping? those RPMS at 55mph seem very steep
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 08:34:57 AM
Quote from: ELIMINATOR on December 07, 2013, 03:47:07 AM
What size tyre are you using? I just used the gear commander to see what your sprockets are for that rpm / mph combination.
53mph @ 4450 = 16/52 sprockets, (not likely!!) or 14/44, there are quite a few permutations!!!. Something odd is going on here?
Could it be the clutch is slipping? those RPMS at 55mph seem very steep
If that is happening then the oil must smell like a burned clutch. Easy to check... And it won't take long to run out of friction plate thickness to loose the clutch all together... The steels will also take a hit and change color from the heat...
FJmonkey -- been meaning to say this for a while....
That glass hasn't been over engineered, your just simply half way to your next one! :drinks: or :morning1: !
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 01:22:23 PM
FJmonkey -- been meaning to say this for a while....
That glass hasn't been over engineered, your just simply half way to your next one! :drinks: or :morning1: !
Thanks for taking the bait, and the hook, and the line and the sinker.... If I get the chance I promise to buy you a full size drink of your choice... Make a West Coast Rally and meet the Monkey...
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 07, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
We have 4 Dans, 2 Nancys and a Dragon...
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 07, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
We have 4 Dans, 2 Nancys and a Dragon...
I think we had Potato Cannons first... and a couple of trebuchets.
We lost the Aussie, but picked up a few Rally dogs. :bomb: :biggrin:
And we have the drum. :blum1:
And great roads. And sometimes redcap. :good2:
Quote from: not a lib on December 07, 2013, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 07, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
We have 4 Dans, 2 Nancys and a Dragon...
I think we had Potato Cannons first... and a couple of trebuchets.
We lost the Aussie, but picked up a few Rally dogs. :bomb: :biggrin:
And we have the drum. :blum1:
And great roads. And sometimes redcap. :good2:
And no fear of dropping off into the ocean due to a massive earthquake. No fear of state-wide bankruptcy, and way fewer pretentious people.
Quote from: Dan Filetti on December 07, 2013, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: not a lib on December 07, 2013, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 07, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
We have 4 Dans, 2 Nancys and a Dragon...
I think we had Potato Cannons first... and a couple of trebuchets.
We lost the Aussie, but picked up a few Rally dogs. :bomb: :biggrin:
And we have the drum. :blum1:
And great roads. And sometimes redcap. :good2:
And no fear of dropping off into the ocean due to a massive earthquake. No fear of state-wide bankruptcy, and way fewer pretentious people.
Ahhh...Shit!.... :sorry: All we got is Ashes, ...chooks, and candy.....oh!....and an on site BREWERY! :yahoo:
Quote from: The General on December 07, 2013, 07:33:13 PM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on December 07, 2013, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: not a lib on December 07, 2013, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 07, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
We have 4 Dans, 2 Nancys and a Dragon...
I think we had Potato Cannons first... and a couple of trebuchets.
We lost the Aussie, but picked up a few Rally dogs. :bomb: :biggrin:
And we have the drum. :blum1:
And great roads. And sometimes redcap. :good2:
And no fear of dropping off into the ocean due to a massive earthquake. No fear of state-wide bankruptcy, and way fewer pretentious people.
Ahhh...Shit!.... :sorry: All we got is Ashes, ...chooks, and candy.....oh!....and an on site BREWERY! :yahoo:
Two things all y'all have on the left coast...you have all the fruits and nuts :rofl2:
Quote from: The General on December 07, 2013, 07:33:13 PM
oh!....and an on site BREWERY! :yahoo:
Winner. :good2:
Closest the EC rallies got to that was when Keith C. brought his taps and kegs of award-winning homebrew, and james earthdrum brought a case or two of mead, and we also had a gallon or two of redcap. :biggrin:
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 08:11:34 PM
Quote from: The General on December 07, 2013, 07:33:13 PM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on December 07, 2013, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: not a lib on December 07, 2013, 06:02:53 PM
Quote from: FJscott on December 07, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 07, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: fj1289 on December 07, 2013, 04:17:00 PM
Will give it the college try! Have been trying to make a rally since the second one that eventually became known as the "East Coast" rally...
Fair enough, the WCR is closer I think than the the ECR for you. We have Thermite and Potato Cannons and a few Aussies that attend. What is the east coast offering??? Perhaps a drum and some complicated fire starter called a dragon??? :bomb:
We have 4 Dans, 2 Nancys and a Dragon...
I think we had Potato Cannons first... and a couple of trebuchets.
We lost the Aussie, but picked up a few Rally dogs. :bomb: :biggrin:
And we have the drum. :blum1:
And great roads. And sometimes redcap. :good2:
And no fear of dropping off into the ocean due to a massive earthquake. No fear of state-wide bankruptcy, and way fewer pretentious people.
Ahhh...Shit!.... :sorry: All we got is Ashes, ...chooks, and candy.....oh!....and an on site BREWERY! :yahoo:
Two things all y'all have on the left coast...you have all the fruits and nuts :rofl2:
Yea, yea, we hear that shit all the time... Earthquakes, Socialist state government, fiscal irresponsibility, fruits and nuts....all that..... But the fundamental fact remains...
Had Columbus turned left and sailed around the Cape and landed in San Diego bay, instead of Plymouth Rock, today in the 21st century, there would still be vast regions of the east coast vacant and unexplored....
Because who the fuck would want to move back there?
A little chilly today, only got up to 60* but at least the sun was out..... :good:
That's a great view Pat :lol: :lol: 10 degees presently and snow heading to 5 degrees... Enjoy your 60...... :good2:
George
Well, I got to ride my bike again Tuesday. I must correct the RPM's that I reported earlier in this post. At 55mph I am running 3800rpm. FYI - the clutch is not slipping.
Quote from: ih781000 on January 02, 2014, 08:23:34 AM
Well, I got to ride my bike again Tuesday. I must correct the RPM's that I reported earlier in this post. At 55mph I am running 3800rpm. FYI - the clutch is not slipping.
And you stand a good chance that your speedometer is 3-5 mph off actual.
Howdy,
I have not followed this tread closely so perhaps the following has already been addressed.
My mileage had dropped into the 36 mpg range. I spoke with Randy and he suggested that the emulsion tubes may have worn. Holding the tubes up to the light, sure enough they were no longer round but elliptical in shape.
After replacing the tubes my mileage has returned to normal levels. Usually about 42 mpg regardless of how I ride - I did have a wind aided freeway cruise in the 70 to low 70 mph range of 47 mpg.
There is a needle specific to RPM that I may eventually try to see if fine tuning the mileage/performance is possible but I wanted replace only the emulsion tubes first to see if that was actually the problem. If & when I install the new needles I will certainly post the results.
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on January 11, 2014, 12:25:00 AM
Howdy,
I have not followed this tread closely so perhaps the following has already been addressed.
My mileage had dropped into the 36 mpg range. I spoke with Randy and he suggested that the emulsion tubes may have worn. Holding the tubes up to the light, sure enough they were no longer round but elliptical in shape.
After replacing the tubes my mileage has returned to normal levels. Usually about 42 mpg regardless of how I ride - I did have a wind aided freeway cruise in the 70 to low 70 mph range of 47 mpg.
There is a needle specific to RPM that I may eventually try to see if fine tuning the mileage/performance is possible but I wanted replace only the emulsion tubes first to see if that was actually the problem. If & when I install the new needles I will certainly post the results.
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Are you talking about the adjustable needles ? I think a few people when they "rebuild" there carbs don't even take those emulsion tubes out. They do get elongated over time I think because of the needle bouncing in them. I replaced mine during the rebuild a few years ago. They also get crap in behind the emulsion tube tending to plug the small holes in the side of the tube. I put new adjustable needles at that time. I am at 3000 feet and the needles are in the mid notch but I think that I am still rich by looking at plug reading that's at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle doing a chop at 4000 rpm.
I haven't had time to look into it to hard but its one of those things that needs to be adjusted when the weather gets good enough to ride it for more than around the block.
George