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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HARTLESS on November 03, 2013, 09:12:08 PM

Title: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 03, 2013, 09:12:08 PM
    Last Tuesday a car pulled out right in front of me while doing about 45 mph and I'm lucky to be on this forum right now. did a couple flips and witness's say I flew about 50ft in length and 15ft high in the air. I was un able to get up because my leg is possibly broken ( they said it's so swollen they need to check once the swelling goes down). I didn't really get to check out my bike but I did browse around and see all the motorcycle parts around me and a quick glance at the bike leaves me with the impression that its totaled. it was definitely one of those moments where I said to myself, " wow, I'm still alive...."
so you guys probably wont see me on this forum much anymore, but I might be parting out the good parts of the bike, depends on how it looks ( going to look at it tomorrow ). I'll take some pictures and try to post them. safe riding guys
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FJmonkey on November 03, 2013, 09:24:59 PM
WOW!! What an incident. You don't need an FJ to be a member. But having a similar experience many years back, I can relate to it. The trauma wears off after a while, for most, it did for me. If riding is a passion then stick around and at let the moment sink in and process it through... Bikes can be fixed and or replaced. Give it some time and chill while you heal. Many here have been through crashes, it's like therapy when you stay on line...
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Dan Filetti on November 03, 2013, 09:29:48 PM
Well that just sucks.  Glad you around to write about it. Certainly sounds like it could have been a lot worse.

As for not being around much, consider sticking around. Even if your next bike is not an FJ, this is a pretty good group. Hell, I have not had an FJ for, 9 years,? and it was two bikes ago and I still attend this forum regularly.

Just a thought,

Ether way, take care,

Dan
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: giantkiller on November 03, 2013, 09:58:01 PM
Wow glad your ok. Broken bones heal. I had the same thing happen to me only I wasn't lucky enough to go over. The roof line of the car stopped me. I was told I spent almost 3 months in the hospital.

Anyway you should hang out here. What else ya gonna do while you heal up.
Hoping for a speedy recovery for you.
And hope you get back on a bike.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: movenon on November 03, 2013, 10:14:46 PM
Glad you are OK. Like Dan said stick around the campfire. You have lots of crap to digest, don't be in any hurry. Just focus on getting well. Stay on the positive side of things, to start with you are here and alive. It is going to take some time but you are in good company here and more than a few of us have been down that road before.  "Its not the bike, it's the members"  :good2:
George
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: CanDman on November 03, 2013, 10:38:50 PM
WTF is going on ??????? Is it my imagination or there a lot of mishaps going on in here??? Hartless....man I am sorry to hear about your baby...but I am glad you're still with us. Take some time away if you must and let things settle and heal, but like George said....it's not the bike...it is the members....and we are more than just friends....we're family.....get well and stay in touch
CanDman   
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: roverfj1200 on November 03, 2013, 11:18:44 PM
First your not dead or injured to bad. Thats good. Second shame about the bike...

Heal fast

Cheers
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: The General on November 03, 2013, 11:43:56 PM
Quote from: HARTLESS on November 03, 2013, 09:12:08 PM
     " wow, I'm still alive...."
I might be parting out the good parts of the bike, depends on how it looks ( going to look at it tomorrow ).  safe riding guys
By Tomorrow you`ll be a lot wiser. It`d be ashame to waste that education and all those global Mates. Buy the replacement before you part out the old if possible...well at least have a look, I bet you can feel that leg discomfort ease with every google search. 1st step, search Bikes for sale then type in FJ....Really Glad you`re here!  :drinks:
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Pat Conlon on November 04, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
Sorry to hear about this Adam. I hope you get the proper medical care you need and heal well.
So they can't tell if your leg is broken because of swelling?
WTF?
You know that X-rays go right through tissue edema.
Did they give you a couple of aspirin and send you home? If you put some lime in a coconut, I hear it works wonders.

Keep us informed on how you are doing.  Pat
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Capn Ron on November 04, 2013, 12:24:52 AM
Damn...very glad you're still here and typing away!  That was a high side with a side of car thrown in for good measure!  Not an easy one to limp away from...

You've got some forced downtime scheduled...make the most of it and heal well!

Cap'n Ron. . .
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Tiger on November 04, 2013, 07:21:14 AM
WOW!!! Adam, sorry to read of your recent misfortune my friend. Sure glad that your alive, kicking and able to relay your tale.

Its coming to the end of the riding season, weather wise...and from a personal point of view, your going to need some healing time, physically and mentally.
So, as The General says, hang on to your FJ, if its not repairable, you may just need some parts for your next ride :scratch_one-s_head:

Keep on smilin' :drinks:

John.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: JCainFJ on November 04, 2013, 07:27:51 AM
Glad you are still with us. Heal up and get back on a bike soon!
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 04, 2013, 11:40:09 AM
let me rephrase my statement, you wont see me AS MUCH. lol . as for the xray bit, the had a hard time maneuvering me and the machine because of the room and how swollen my leg is. they said it doesn't look like its broken but they want to check again. I mean, it feels broken but then again im just a wuss.  :crazy: thanks for thee kind words and I do plan to stick around. I might not get a bike for a while ( though I did pick up an 84 xr350r 3 days after ( I didn't literally pick it up!!haha)) but I probably will get another down the road. idk we will see, I have been in 3 wrecks in the last 2.5 years. this one was the worst for sure though
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: ELIMINATOR on November 04, 2013, 12:20:42 PM
Mend soon mate.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: rktmanfj on November 04, 2013, 01:17:43 PM

Man, that sucks.

Take your time, don't make any hasty decisions on anything... concentrate on healing fast, and well.

Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: aviationfred on November 04, 2013, 02:20:53 PM
Glad to hear that you injuries are not more severe. I had a serious accident with my 85' FJ1100 way back in 1990. Totalled the bike and did a pretty good number on myself. While I was recovering, still using crutches. I purchased a basket case VF1000F that was in boxes and over a 6 month period, put everything back together, put the engine in the frame and got it running and rideable. By the time I had the bike ready to ride, I was off the crutches and started riding again. Overall staying busy and tinkering with putting the bike together was very therapeutic.

Here is a possible $1100.00 therapeutic device.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/4157600713.html (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/4157600713.html)

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o145/aviationfred/00l0l_i98v73qwPqo_600x450_zpsa9b86a45.jpg) (http://s119.photobucket.com/user/aviationfred/media/00l0l_i98v73qwPqo_600x450_zpsa9b86a45.jpg.html)

Fred
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: X-Ray on November 04, 2013, 04:07:39 PM
Not a good thing to happen. Hope you heal 100% and there seems to be plenty of FJs for sale, so never say never  :drinks:



Re that bike for sale the seller states only 20000 miles, but it needs new rings??
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FeralRdr on November 04, 2013, 04:47:54 PM
Damn it!  Damn it! Damn it!  This has not been a good week.  My family just lost one of my cousins in a motorcycle accident in Alabama this past week, so I'm currently a little sensitive to hearing about this.  All I can say Hartless, is 'Thank God' it didn't turn out worse for you and your family.  Heal up and get back on 'two' soon.

Remember, machines can be either fixed or replaced, but we riders can't always be fixed, and we certainly can't be replaced.  So, once you're healed up a bit, go celebrate being alive.  :good2:
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: markmartin on November 04, 2013, 05:44:12 PM
Heal up Adam and I'm glad you're OK. I hope for your sake that nothing is broken.  I've broken a couple of bones but they didn't hurt nearly as much as a bruised kneecap I sustained in a dirt bike get-off some years ago, so even if it's not broken doesn't mean it can't hurt like hell.  Give things time to heal.  Hopefully you'll feel like getting back in the saddle when you feel better. 
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: BadBro on November 04, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
Get well.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: andyoutandabout on November 04, 2013, 07:25:27 PM
Damn bad luck. Stay busy and build something, be it model kit or the real deal.
Andy
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: CatTomb on November 04, 2013, 08:33:01 PM
THAT SUCKS!  :bad:

Headed to Portland from Sisters the middle of next week. Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you while I'm there.

Jeff
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: BikeryJeff on November 04, 2013, 10:27:37 PM
Feel better my friend. One question.... was it a woman driver? Just curious.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on November 05, 2013, 07:25:05 AM
Hartless (Adam),
I'm really sorry to read about your mishap, but it could have been much, much worse.

Heal up and get back on!

Steve
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 05, 2013, 08:49:43 PM
Quote from: BikeryJeff on November 04, 2013, 10:27:37 PM
Feel better my friend. One question.... was it a woman driver? Just curious.

funny you ask because I had a discussion or two with a female co worker a couple months back about how every time I almost get hit by someone on my bike, its always a woman driver. when she texted me after she heard I got hit she asked the same question. as a matter of fact it was a woman lol. im not going to jump back on a bike right away but I think that I will get back on eventually. for sure I will be riding in the dirt as soon as I can. its chapping my hide hardcore that I cant ride the xr350 I just picked up!!!!
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 05, 2013, 09:00:55 PM
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/F8F77081-2033-4649-9F4C-A897D0F1169B-266-0000000D9AA48708_zpsb181977c.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/F8F77081-2033-4649-9F4C-A897D0F1169B-266-0000000D9AA48708_zpsb181977c.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/53AAEE3D-2895-4696-A303-680A30200890-266-0000000D863B5DEB_zps7d864edd.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/53AAEE3D-2895-4696-A303-680A30200890-266-0000000D863B5DEB_zps7d864edd.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/9DA8D0F8-3A10-4CD3-965B-559BC7ACB543-266-0000000D7A647B03_zpsed0de17f.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/9DA8D0F8-3A10-4CD3-965B-559BC7ACB543-266-0000000D7A647B03_zpsed0de17f.jpg.html)
these are from yesterday which is 5 days after it happened. not the greatest pictures. in the picture when im on crutches its hard to tell but my left leg is about 3 times bigger than my right  ( its reversed because its a mirrored selfie. that picture was taken two days after )
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: baldy3853 on November 05, 2013, 11:00:15 PM
Heartless sorry to hear about your off and the fact the FJ is in a sad state  :sorry: hopefully you are back on soon  :good2:
Baldy
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: fj1289 on November 07, 2013, 12:20:18 PM
HARTLESS-sorry to hear about the accident. Hope you stay on the mend and recover quickly.  Like everyone has said, it doesn't take an FJ to be on here.

A lot of guys I meet at the dragstrip don't ride on the street anymore - you can always take it to the track to get your kookaloo on too!  Short and straight, curves, or even miles of salt...
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: movenon on November 07, 2013, 12:56:54 PM
You don't have to own an FJ to show up at a rally either.  :good2: :good2: You just have to know how to spell "FJ"  :rofl2:
George
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: craigo on November 07, 2013, 05:40:07 PM
Dang, that totally sux!!! Hope you get to moving around better soon.

CraigO
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 15, 2013, 01:25:27 AM
here are a couple pictures.. mind you that the suv involved is totaled..the fj is a tank! It does look worse in person, my old iPhone 3gs isn't a very good camera. the frame is bent and the case is cracked
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/C3408B8B-39B5-442D-B867-A04EBBA8D115-2144-000001CCF4CE6120_zps2042e30b.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/C3408B8B-39B5-442D-B867-A04EBBA8D115-2144-000001CCF4CE6120_zps2042e30b.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/B0CC34FB-F42E-47B7-A5CF-4B9E1FC90F80-2144-000001CCE6235202_zpsfe4bdeed.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/B0CC34FB-F42E-47B7-A5CF-4B9E1FC90F80-2144-000001CCE6235202_zpsfe4bdeed.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/A219FD4E-2B47-401F-8B52-D48BF970D19F-2144-000001CCDD8C6088_zps582e7ffb.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/A219FD4E-2B47-401F-8B52-D48BF970D19F-2144-000001CCDD8C6088_zps582e7ffb.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/977FF69E-26EF-4BB3-B776-4112E850C1E8-2144-000001CCD6741636_zpsceaa40bd.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/977FF69E-26EF-4BB3-B776-4112E850C1E8-2144-000001CCD6741636_zpsceaa40bd.jpg.html)
I had saddlebags on that saved the tail the mufflers were the only part of the rear that looked damaged
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/F3EFC149-59DA-4D32-B667-94CC282415F1-2144-000001CCCB7E51FC_zps1d6f63ef.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/F3EFC149-59DA-4D32-B667-94CC282415F1-2144-000001CCCB7E51FC_zps1d6f63ef.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/49E5A901-F8F0-49F3-946D-47EAA6D88842-2144-000001CCC50D4051_zps904f3de0.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/49E5A901-F8F0-49F3-946D-47EAA6D88842-2144-000001CCC50D4051_zps904f3de0.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p647/adam_hartless/5A68F6BF-4853-41E1-A6BD-76422A9BB47C-2144-000001CCBBEFE117_zps107fcc62.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/adam_hartless/media/5A68F6BF-4853-41E1-A6BD-76422A9BB47C-2144-000001CCBBEFE117_zps107fcc62.jpg.html)
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: movenon on November 15, 2013, 01:38:39 AM
Damn.... That SUV must have moving fast. Pretty much did the bike in. How badly was the case cracked ? Being snoopy here but is the SUV's insurance going to cover you ?  Continue healing up and keep looking forward. The bike is replaceable.
George
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 15, 2013, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: movenon on November 15, 2013, 01:38:39 AM
Damn.... That SUV must have moving fast. Pretty much did the bike in. How badly was the case cracked ? Being snoopy here but is the SUV's insurance going to cover you ?  Continue healing up and keep looking forward. The bike is replaceable.
George

Well, technically the SUV pulled out in front of me making a left turn so she wasn't going fast. I on te other hand was going 40 mph and only had about 15 ft to react. She pulled out from in front of a bus so she didn't see me as I didn't see her. Her insurance should cover it considering it was her fault, she was even cited for failing to yield to right of way and careless driving, but at this point they haven't admited fault yet, so I am hiring a lawyer. I have been out of work for over 2 weeks and have accumulated probably around $10,000 in medical bills. Apparently it's law to have personal injury protection at a minimum of $15,000 for automobiles, but not for motorcycles here in Oregon, so all I have with progressive is $1,000 medical. Something I think everyone should look into especially if you don't have health insurance ( I don't). Anyways, I'm just trying to rest up and make the best, sucks though because today is me and the woman's 4 year anniversary and I have $20 to my name. She is really wonderful and has been taking care of me so it sucks I can't even take her to dinner. there is sort of a bright side though, I have Aflacs short term disability insurance so hopefully I will be getting paid soon.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on November 15, 2013, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: HARTLESS on November 15, 2013, 01:25:09 PM
Apparently it's law to have personal injury protection at a minimum of $15,000 for automobiles, but not for motorcycles here in Oregon, so all I have with progressive is $1,000 medical. Something I think everyone should look into especially if you don't have health insurance ( I don't).

The ACA goons will be arriving soon to rectify (rectumfy?) that condition.  But don't worry, if you like your old insurance, you can keep it.

:bomb:
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FeralRdr on November 15, 2013, 02:50:22 PM
Was this a case of the car pulling away from the side of the curb, or was it a case of driver turning left from a side street cutting across your path?  Either way, she would be in the wrong.  Also, what part of town did this happen?
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: rktmanfj on November 15, 2013, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 15, 2013, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: HARTLESS on November 15, 2013, 01:25:09 PM
Apparently it's law to have personal injury protection at a minimum of $15,000 for automobiles, but not for motorcycles here in Oregon, so all I have with progressive is $1,000 medical. Something I think everyone should look into especially if you don't have health insurance ( I don't).

The ACA goons will be arriving soon to rectify (rectumfy?) that condition.  But don't worry, if you like your old insurance, you can keep it.

:bomb:

(popcorn)   (popcorn)   (popcorn)

Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 15, 2013, 05:31:38 PM
Quote from: FeralRdr on November 15, 2013, 02:50:22 PM
Was this a case of the car pulling away from the side of the curb, or was it a case of driver turning left from a side street cutting across your path?  Either way, she would be in the wrong.  Also, what part of town did this happen?
I was traveling north on se 162nd ave and she pulled out of se market st heading west making a left turn to head south on se 162nd ave.
QuoteThe ACA goons will be arriving soon to rectify (rectumfy?) that condition.  But don't worry, if you like your old insurance, you can keep it.

bomb
not sure what you mean by this?
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on November 15, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
Sorry, in a moment of weakness I posted a stupid political comment.  Please pretend it's not there and we can move on.
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 15, 2013, 11:34:34 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 15, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
Sorry, in a moment of weakness I posted a stupid political comment.  Please pretend it's not there and we can move on.
Haha no need to apologize, I legitimately have no idea what it meant!
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FJmonkey on November 15, 2013, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 15, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
Sorry, in a moment of weakness I posted a stupid political comment.  Please pretend it's not there and we can move on.
I don't know what that meant and I feel violated....  :shok: :shok: :shok:
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: HARTLESS on November 16, 2013, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: FJmonkey on November 15, 2013, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on November 15, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
Sorry, in a moment of weakness I posted a stupid political comment.  Please pretend it's not there and we can move on.
I don't know what that meant and I feel violated....  :shok: :shok: :shok:
He must be Canadian or something...... :morning1: :wacko2: :flag_of_truce: :hi:
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: FJmonkey on November 16, 2013, 12:36:59 AM
Quote from: HARTLESS on November 16, 2013, 12:32:56 AM
He must be Canadian or something...... :morning1: :wacko2: :flag_of_truce: :hi:
Good job on covering your ass.... Just stirring the shit... Seeing who bites the bate...
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Dan Filetti on November 16, 2013, 09:26:55 AM
Despite being a good guy, the Monkey-man-Mark is incapable of escaping the fact that he is absolutely surrounded by lefties, living firmly in the middle of the 'left-coast'.  Politically therefore, 85% of what he opines must be taken with considerably more than a grain of salt.

I was with you Hooligan, and I say never apologize about being 'right'.  By way of example I won't apologize for pointing out the absurdity, for instants, that the right was blamed and called evil, and compared to terrorists etc, for shutting down the government.  ...This is despite the 100 or so appropriations bills they offered to re-open the most important parts of government.  Note that the left absolutely refused to allow those bills through -why? -because they would lose their leverage!  THINK about it. 

**The left was perfectly willing, in fact insistent on leaving the painful parts of the shut down in place, simply to keep their advantage over the right, all the while Obama was saying publicly, in no uncertain terms, that he 'would not negotiate' -essentially saying the he was willing to endure the painful shut down to prevent the ACA from being delayed by a year.  The left is AT LEAST 50% responsible for the pain and expense of the shut down.

Now, I'm not one to cry over spilled milk, tactically they 'won' the battle of the bully pulpit, someone has to, and it can't always your side -whatever.  But I bring it up just now because el presidente just essentially conceded the 1 year point, which he was so very amendment against just a month ago.  Seems to me, when they simply HAD to know there was going to be problems. It does not reflect well on our leaders, neither side, but the right was well, more right than the left on this.  I hope folks remember this come 2014 and 2016.       

Dan
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Flynt on November 16, 2013, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on November 16, 2013, 09:26:55 AM
I hope folks remember this come 2014 and 2016.      

Respectfully Dan, the Right couldn't win a free giveaway with the current status of the party...  I'm ex-military and lean as Right as I can traditionally, but they sure aren't representing my interests anymore.  I'll be amazed if they can get their shit together to mount a serious campaign by '16 and '14 will be a disaster for them.

In general our gov't has lost touch with the needs of the country and no longer represent the people...  That's what started the country in the first place and we're just begging for a reboot IMHO.

Frank
Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: rktmanfj on November 16, 2013, 09:51:40 AM
Quote from: Flynt on November 16, 2013, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: Dan Filetti on November 16, 2013, 09:26:55 AM
I hope folks remember this come 2014 and 2016.      

Respectfully Dan, the Right couldn't win a free giveaway with the current status of the party...  I'm ex-military and lean as Right as I can traditionally, but they sure aren't representing my interests anymore.  I'll be amazed if they can get their shit together to mount a serious campaign by '16 and '14 will be a disaster for them.

In general our gov't has lost touch with the needs of the country and no longer represent the people...  That's what started the country in the first place and we're just begging for a reboot IMHO.

Frank

Amen.   :good2:

Title: Re: No more FJ...
Post by: Dan Filetti on November 16, 2013, 10:16:31 AM
Our leader have lost touch, surely this is true.  I do not advocate for a revolution though, there simply must be a way to reform our government incrementally, though voting with our minds and wallets.   

And yes, it does seem that the the right is fragmented.  However this does not mean individual senate races can't be won. The fact is, the left is vulnerable in enough races that the tide **could** be turned in, as soon as 2014. this ACA debacle may be a strong enough issue to garner more than a few upsets. If the right **could** control the house and senate (admittedly a big 'if') Obama would be a lame duck and things like amnesty for illegals may be held off. If the right could control the house and the senate, then congress would indeed hold the power of the purse.

2016 is, to your point, another matter. Nationally, it's tough to compete with the 'vote for us for free stuff' narritive coming from the left -it just sounds so damn appealing to those unfamiliar to the very concept of differed gratification.  Sadly this represents more than 50% of us.   There may be a unifying figure that comes up to consolidate the party -maybe... and Hillary is polarizing enough and one can always hope for enough apathy on the left to  make for a fun-to-watch race, at least.  We'll see.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1471325_585266964854437_196387780_n.jpg)