I've completed my wheel mod and thought I would share my experience. Not that I have any new insights, but there have been a lot of posts regarding wheel mods lately, so maybe this can be a help to anyone who maybe hesitant to give it a try.
First a little about me. I'm familiar with hand tools and I do the maintenance on my vehicles. Back in the day I replaced a few clutches, did a valve job once, and installed some bolt on performance parts on '60's vintage vehicles. I don't have a modifier's or engineer's temperament. I tend to target fixate and miss side issues that modifying one part can cause. As far as my riding goes, I'd say I'm in the middle of the pack at the rallies I have attended. Let's just say I won't be needing knee pucks anytime soon.
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv204/fjryder86/020.jpg)
As my reference I used AK's Project FJ site. It was for the most part very good, the measurements were spot on. However, when a person is at a certain skill level they tend to view certain things as obvious. This is where I got into trouble, but there was always help a post away.
My first problem was getting the studs out of the cush drive. I tried using two nuts.... nothing. I was told to use heat to break them lose. I was concerned about damaging the drive so I concentrated the heat on the stud.....fail. OK so now I deserve to be hit with a board. The answer of course that the threads need to be heated. It only takes a few seconds and I could smell when the thread locker burned.
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv204/fjryder86/023-1.jpg)
My next problem was just stupid. I made sure I had all the parts that needed to machined then sent them off to the machinist (that was the target). I didn't realize I was missing the right side spacer until I mounted the wheel. Hmmm.. something doesn't look right. I was trying to get to the ECFR so made my own spacer, again with help from the board. It would have worked too and I would have made it to problem number 3.
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv204/fjryder86/IMG_0036.jpg)
When I went for a test ride, I lost my rear brake. The website noted the caliper stay needed to be modified but didn't give any measurements, so I did what I thought looked right, but it wasn't. When the suspension moved, the stay hit the the master cylinder and broke the mount. you can't see it in the picture but there is a nick on the stay. It was suggested I turn the stay 180 degrees, but I had a spare stay and it seemed to fit better so I went with that. I'm running a Pilot Road 170-60.
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv204/fjryder86/021.jpg)
I've put a few hundred miles on the bike since completing the mod and I'm happy with the result. My main goal in doing this was to keep using radial tires and it meets that objective. The bike seems to turn better, no doubt because of the tire is new. I've also noticed the suspension seems to work better. There is a truck stop on my normal ride route and the truck traffic has really messed up the road surface. The bike feels a lot more settled over this rough patch. I'm guessing the lighter wheel is making it easier on the stock shock.
So if you're considering this mod give it a go. Even if you're as dense as me you can do this and if you get stuck the FJ community is just a post away. Thanks to everyone for the help, Bill, Jake and especially Troy, I'd still be shopping for a rearset on eBay instead of riding if not for your kindness.
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv204/fjryder86/019.jpg)
crap! let me try this again(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv204/fjryder86/019.jpg)
Nice job!
What I would like to see are a set of "prints" or a manual for mods like this and front end upgrades.
This way I could send out the parts to a shop and when they are returned "bolt" them on.
:greeting:
Great job Fred. Those white wheels "really" look nice. I also be likin your supertrapp 4-1. Wanna swap for some Kerker slipons??:wink
I see you have a Targa full lower. I picked one up a while back and never have mounted it. (other than test fitting it) I did not get the proper mounting brackets with it. The next time you take it off, can you snap a couple of pics of the brackets for me? Then I can see how it was intended to be mounted.
Cheers...Jake
Check out AK's site. The measurements are there and there are pictures of the parts that were modified. I just printed out the pages and took them to my machinist. He had no trouble following it and he's not an automotive machinist. He normally makes parts for oil drilling rigs
Quote from: jvb_ca on October 09, 2009, 02:01:32 PM
Then I can see how it was intended to be mounted.
Cheers...Jake
Jake,
The lower mounting is simple. It uses the stock mounting points at the bottom. At the top there is steel strap, maybe six inches long, that slides behind the fairing at the back of the scoop. The bolt that holds on the scoop goes through a hole in the strap. The other end of the strap has a slot to put the lower bolt through. I don't know if thats the original way it was done it was on the bike when I got it, but it hasn't been a problem.
Thanks Fred. Makes sense. My lower is new, never mounted, and there is a hole that looks to be in the same place as yours. Looks like I can just cut and bend a piece of sheetmetal to use as a strap, and bolt it on.
Cheers..Jake
Fred,
Looking good brother!
i always tried to learn from other people's mistakes but sometimes that isn't possible.....i could go on and on about all the stuff i fubar'd going thru my learning curve but luckily my father didnt kill me before i got smart (that's relative BTW)
you got thru it though and you're riding now so it's all good! :good2:
T Roy really is the good son! .... BTW T Roy we gonna get together at pop's (rt 56) here real soon and the family would love to see ya!.... ride on over and hammer the DRZ up and down 56... i got a new set of pilot powers on it that are screaming to be shredded :yahoo:
KOokaloo!
Frank
Quote from: Fred on October 09, 2009, 02:03:37 PM
Check out AK's site. The measurements are there and there are pictures of the parts that were modified. I just printed out the pages and took them to my machinist. He had no trouble following it and he's not an automotive machinist. He normally makes parts for oil drilling rigs
I looked for "AK's site but to no avail.
could you post the link
Thanks
Top draw Fred - nice pics. I'm about to mod up and it's always good to see what one is aiming for. We both have 86s with supertrapps, so mine will look very similar - or should do unless things go pear shaped
Andy
Fred & all others doing the conversion the R1/6 banjo bolts ar thinner than the FJs and most other banjo bolts. It will gain you about 3MM+- more clearance.
As for the bracket you can take the broken assembly to a welding shop and have it tiged back togther.
Nice work, Fred!
But I'm glad it aint me that's gonna have to keep those spiffy white wheels clean! (http://i37.tinypic.com/34rarlh.gif)
Cheers, and the duck says, "Kookaloo!" (http://i35.tinypic.com/adlret.gif)
Inspirational stuff Fred!!!
It's on my "things what I gotta do" list and you have given me some much needed confidence.
Good on you!
Fred,
Very nice looking bike. Yes, the change to modern rubber is amazing. When I changed over to the FZR1000 front and rear wheels on my bike I couldn't believe it was the same bike. Your efforts will be well rewarded. Great job! I have a question though, did you change your Dog Bones out? The need to be changed in length to compensate for the rear tire change. I am sure one of the Guru's here know how to determine the length. I couldn't tell you if it needs to be shorter or longer, I think it may depend on the bike, but I do know it puts the rear tire much closer to the ground when it is on the center stand. It will quicken your steering up even more.
Ride on......
Later......
ps. Is this the method you used? http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/Project_FJ/YZFRear.htm (http://www.btinternet.com/~fj1200mods/Project_FJ/YZFRear.htm)
Quote from: ccsct203 on October 09, 2009, 08:18:46 PM
Quote from: Fred on October 09, 2009, 02:03:37 PM
Check out AK's site. The measurements are there and there are pictures of the parts that were modified. I just printed out the pages and took them to my machinist. He had no trouble following it and he's not an automotive machinist. He normally makes parts for oil drilling rigs
I looked for "AK's site but to no avail.
could you post the link
Thanks
Sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner, family stuff. Check out Highbonzo's link, that s' the info I used.
Quote from: higbonzo on October 11, 2009, 08:20:45 PM
Fred,
I have a question though, did you change your Dog Bones out? The need to be changed in length to compensate for the rear tire change. I am sure one of the Guru's here know how to determine the length. I couldn't tell you if it needs to be shorter or longer, I think it may depend on the bike, but I do know it puts the rear tire much closer to the ground when it is on the center stand. It will quicken your steering up even more.
Ride on......
Later......
No, there are no dog bones on an 86. I'm saving up for a Penske. Which leads me to a question. Is the top shock mount the same for an 89? I've given some thought to to putting an 89 swing arm on so I could play around with the dog bone length, but I am unsure if the shock is the same at the top
Fred,
The tops are the same, but the bottoms are different. I am not sure that the 89 is any better than the 86 design. You could purchase a newer rear shock and have the ride height designed into the shock, as well as purchasing a shock with adjustable ride height. Here is a pic of an 86 with the FZR1000 wheel and you can see how close it set to the ground, and you can also see the shackle for the swingarm are original looking. http://www.powaymotorcycle.com/gallery/yamaha/Bills_1986_FJ1200.html (http://www.powaymotorcycle.com/gallery/yamaha/Bills_1986_FJ1200.html) Bill is a great guy, and you could ask him how he determined the new ride height and how he accomplished this goal, although he is riding a ZZR1200 at the time he is still a great advocate of the FJ's. :good: He should also be able to provide the service and parts to get you were you want to be. This is a full time shop so if you contact him he may be a little slow getting back with you, but he will get back with you.
Later.... :bye2:
Highbonzo, cool front fender, is that one piece? How much did it cost, where did you get it? If you don't mind my asking that is.... :drinks:
I'm not asking for much from switching the swing arm. It's just I would most likely go with the less expensive Penske, which I assumed wouldn't have the height adjustment. I know they will make it longer for me, but how long? What if I don't like it? With a later swing arm that uses dog bones I could find what works for me.
The Penske Sport shock does indeed have ride height adjustment.... you can ask traxxion to make it have extra ride height adjustment to give you more room to play and they will do it.
you really dont want to swap early for late model swingarms as there really is nothing to gain from it.
Kookaloo!
Frank
Quote from: Fred on October 13, 2009, 05:46:49 AM
I'm not asking for much from switching the swing arm. It's just I would most likely go with the less expensive Penske, which I assumed wouldn't have the height adjustment. I know they will make it longer for me, but how long? What if I don't like it? With a later swing arm that uses dog bones I could find what works for me.
The Penske height adjustment (even on the Sport Shock) is a threaded adjustment on the lower mount. Therefore, it has infinite adjustment over the length of the threads. Witht he YZF rear wheel (and its slightly smaller overall diameter compared to the stock 16" wheel/tire assembly) you would want to get a slightly longer threaded lower mount. I'm almost at the end of the acceptable adjustment range with my '85 and the stock rear wheel. You've got to maintain a minimum of threads in the shock body for safety.
DavidR.
Fred. My shock is installed exactly like it is in this pic....(http://tinyurl.com/3dndxn)
You can see that there is more adjustment to go on the bottom mount. With this setup my rear wheel is about a 1/4 inch off the ground when it is on the center stand. I also have the YZF600 rear wheel, with a 170/60 Pilot Road tire. I am not sure exactly how much it raised the rear,as I never measured it before, but I do know that it quickened the steering.
Cheers...Jake
Ah OK, Thanks guys. I see how it works now. I haven't looked into it too deeply yet. Why get excited before I have the cash :unknown:
Quote from: Fred on October 13, 2009, 04:01:22 PM
Ah OK, Thanks guys. I see how it works now. I haven't looked into it too deeply yet. Why get excited before I have the cash :unknown:
Fred Xmas is comming, ask fer cash... You wont regret the price once you have the Penske installed....
Eric M
So is Penske the cult we all have to join?
Does it come with a pack of koolaid?
just kidding, I will be buying as soon as I sell my h2 or get a mood to sell it
Quote from: FJmonkey on October 12, 2009, 11:56:15 PM
Highbonzo, cool front fender, is that one piece? How much did it cost, where did you get it? If you don't mind my asking that is.... :drinks:
Couldn't tell you, not my bike. But it is probably a FZR1000 usd front fork set up, so I don't imagine finding that fender would be to particularly difficult.
This could be it for all I know, Bill does a lot of Fabricating and Modifications http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carbon-Fiber-Front-Fender-Yamaha-R1-YZF-1000-R1-04-06_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a53b686d5QQitemZ250512574165QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carbon-Fiber-Front-Fender-Yamaha-R1-YZF-1000-R1-04-06_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a53b686d5QQitemZ250512574165QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
Later....
Its a 94-98 YZF750 or 94-96 YZF600 front fender. Its exactly the same as the one on my bike.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/bpro/oldskool/september252009YZF002.jpg)
I purchaded mine off ebay a few years ago after crashing my bike and destroying the factory parts.
Quote from: thuber3040 on October 13, 2009, 06:00:50 PM
So is Penske the cult we all have to join?
Does it come with a pack of koolaid?
just kidding, I will be buying as soon as I sell my h2 or get a mood to sell it
No cult, just advice from trusted friends. The folks here have saved me headaches and pulled my butt out of the fire more than once. So when they tell me Penske is the way to go, I believe them. If I didn't have a good stock shock, which I have because of someone on this list, I would have to go with something else, but that would not make me think less of the advice I was given. It would just be a reflection of my financial position at this time. So while I know my mod will be even better with an aftermarket shock, I am willing to wait and save my pennies for a Penske, rather than take a chance on something else. :pardon:
Good thinking Fred. I bet ya wont be sorry for saving for the Penske....
Eric M
Say, Fred,
Are you still running that uncut stock brake stay arm?
How much clearance between it and the 170? (Sure looks tight in the pic!)
TIA, and cheers! (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 12, 2009, 07:33:58 PM
Say, Fred,
Are you still running that uncut stock brake stay arm?
How much clearance between it and the 170? (Sure looks tight in the pic!)
I should have mentioned... I haven't been able to find a number for the amount the stay arm needs to get spaced out anywhere. I'm putting on a 5.5 in. and I figured that if you'd found that clearance to be acceptable with your 170, then likely 5mm would be enough for a 180 (180 - 170)/2. And if you were getting rubbing, then I'd have to go a bit farther...
TIA, and cheers! (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
It is tight, but no rubbing. I wasn't able to find any measurements for the stay either which led to my problem. It might work with a 180 tire but I have my doubts. Just giving it an eyeball measurement it looks like about 5mm clearance with the 170. I'll check it later but I don't have a caliper or anything to measure it .
Thanks, Fred,
The way I see it, as long as there's some clearance at the most extreme condition, it's enough... no extra points for a bigger-than-necessary gap! :good2:
Cheers! (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
It's been a while, but IIRC, Jon Cain told me 8mm.
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on November 13, 2009, 03:55:30 PM
It's been a while, but IIRC, Jon Cain told me 8mm.
Randy T
Indy
Thanks, Randy! :good2:
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 13, 2009, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 12, 2009, 07:33:58 PM
Say, Fred,
Are you still running that uncut stock brake stay arm?
How much clearance between it and the 170? (Sure looks tight in the pic!)
I should have mentioned... I haven't been able to find a number for the amount the stay arm needs to get spaced out anywhere. I'm putting on a 5.5 in. and I figured that if you'd found that clearance to be acceptable with your 170, then likely 5mm would be enough for a 180 (180 - 170)/2. And if you were getting rubbing, then I'd have to go a bit farther...
TIA, and cheers! (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
Hey Steve,
I measured the clearance of the stay today. I came up with 5.5 mm between the tire and the stay. I used stacked valve shims to measure it, so there is probably a couple hundredths more space in there. The stacked shims were tight enough that there was no wobble, but loose enough that they would fall out if I let them go.
HTH
Quote from: Fred on November 15, 2009, 10:24:06 PM
Hey Steve,
I measured the clearance of the stay today. I came up with 5.5 mm between the tire and the stay. I used stacked valve shims to measure it, so there is probably a couple hundredths more space in there. The stacked shims were tight enough that there was no wobble, but loose enough that they would fall out if I let them go.
Thanks, Fred, that's certainly close enough!
........ Pic's of my 86, YZF 1000 swingarm, Fz1 wheels, brakes, front forks,.... stock rearshock with adjustable linkage. also I can raise or lower the set...... Tryed to is >> additional options<< for pic's no luck...... put in the Gallery.
Quote from: Brook on November 19, 2009, 01:22:14 AM
........ Pic's of my 86, YZF 1000 swingarm, Fz1 wheels, brakes, front forks,.... stock rearshock with adjustable linkage. also I can raise or lower the set...... Tryed to is >> additional options<< for pic's no luck...... put in the Gallery.
Here are a couple of your pics:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/178_17_11_09_3_55_05.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/178_13_11_09_4_43_05.jpeg)
I think that is the most "fairing modified" FJ I've ever seen that is still utilizing the stock frame. Your camera SUCKS though!!! I'd like to see some clearer images sometime if you have them. Nice front and rear end mods as well!
....... Thanks March, ....Yes, I used one of those trow-away-camera's.
Fred,
Thanks for that post on the rear wheel mod. I have been inspired. I've owned FJ's since I bought my first new one in 84. At the time there were choices for rubber, but now only Avon makes radials in 16 inch. By the way, I bought those Avons cause I was going to ride an 86 one more season, so I didn't want to fork over too much coin for tires to give to the next owner. I have to say that those tires exceeded my expectations, over Metzlers and Bridgestone. I degress.
I just wanted to get some clairification on the milling part for the 17" conversion. On AK's site it says "The way it goes is 8mm off of either side and 3mm off of the sprocket carrier on the outside where the sprocket bolts up". I just can't interpret the "8mm of either side" What does that mean exactly? 8mm of the cush drive or the chain tensioners? I'm trying to hunt down a wheel, but can't find any here in Canada. What's a good price for a wheel? Also would it be alright to do this mod and keep the 16" front?
I'm also looking into doing the calipers from the earlier R1-R6 and the master from the ZRX1100 or 12. I need the holes for the mirrors on the 84. But again finding parts locally is futile. Has anyone ever dealt with GDL Cycle Sports in Florida? I find the site odd, that there is no contact info or order form. Great prices for calipers though, $50.00 ea.
As you said Fed, this is a GREAT!!! site with GREAT people!!! Been learning lots reading here. Just one more mod, I'm doing the headlight relay setup. The biggest issue I'm having with that is finding wire, found all the other parts in one store (no wires). Most places sell spools of 100 ft. Can't find a place that sells it by the foot. More hunting today. :dash2:
Thanks again to everyone on the forum!
Quote from: Imkruzen on March 24, 2010, 09:43:34 AM
Most places sell spools of 100 ft. Can't find a place that sells it by the foot. More hunting today. :dash2:
Try NAPA Auto Parts.
They usually have a pretty good selection, sold by the foot.
Randy T
Indy
I found erverything today other than the Black lead. That shouldn't be too difficult:Ithink?
You can use a mid 90's YZF-600 rear wheel pre R-6 with all the stock axle spacers for that wheel and sprocket carrier. You will also need the rear brake caliper mounting bracket. Remove 8mm off of the round axle spacer (making it shorter) on the sprocket side of the wheel. Remove 8mm off of the outer side of the brake caliper bracket (where it makes contact with the swingarm). Remove the sprocket studs from the sprocket carrier and turn 3mm off of the rear sprocket carrier where the sprocket sits. You will need to bend your brake stay just a bit to get it to line up with the newly machined brake caliper bracket and your good to go. With this wheel mod you will be able to run a 170-17 rear tire. Hope this helps..
Eric M
As for the measurements.....Yeah what Eric said. I paid 50 bucks for my wheel on eBay, got the seller to throw in the rotor and caliper bracket too. But I lost a lot of auctions before I got that deal.
I am in the middle of putting '95 YZF600 wheels on my '89 as we speak. I decided to go with a 160/70r17 Bridgstone BT021 and have plenty of clearance on either side. Instead of machining the sprocket carrier, I elected to try a front sprocket with an off set. I purchased a Honda CBX , a Honda vf1000r and a stock sprocket. I justed installed the rear wheel this past weekend and with the rear sprocket flipped over and a stock front sprocket, the chain alignment looks pretty good. I still have to install a new chain, so I will try all three front sprockets and see which one works the best.
I also am upgrading my front brakes to '05 FZ1 calipers and master cylinder with steel braided lines(sourced from e-bay for $80 for everything!).
Fred, thanks for sharing the details of this swap.Great thread, lots of useful info.
This a a mod I'm planning to make this summer, when the existing Metzler wears out. I'm watching a YZF 600 rear wheel on Ebay, but I emailed the owner and he says it's an 18" wheel? Did some years have 17" and some 18"? Are there advantages/disadvantages of using the 18"? Is the rim width the same?
The YZF 600r (the little r is important) all came with 17" wheels. I've heard of first gen FZR 1000 rear wheels (which is an 18") being used on FJ's so I suppose someone could have been put one on a YZF, although why they would is a mystery to me. I've read that the 18" rear wheel makes an FJ turn quicker than the stock wheel, I'm not sure how it would stack up to a 17. Tire selection would be much larger for a 17" wheel, particularly if you want to run radials.
HTH
Never mind. I answered my own question. It's an FZR600 wheel and not a YZF. Duh! :dash2:
Quote from: 83elite on March 29, 2010, 11:50:22 AM
Fred, thanks for sharing the details of this swap.Great thread, lots of useful info.
This a a mod I'm planning to make this summer, when the existing Metzler wears out. I'm watching a YZF 600 rear wheel on Ebay, but I emailed the owner and he says it's an 18" wheel? Did some years have 17" and some 18"? Are there advantages/disadvantages of using the 18"? Is the rim width the same?