Anyone seen this?
http://youtu.be/1ROrCz-YkiA (http://youtu.be/1ROrCz-YkiA)
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585#ixzz2gOfpsTM1 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585#ixzz2gOfpsTM1)
sickening - i get the feeling there won't be any justice served
From what I saw on the video the SUV driver should be charged with Assault with a deadly weapon, and at least 2 counts of Attempted Murder. Hopefully the police got to the scene before the driver of the Range Rover got dragged out of the vehicle.
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on September 30, 2013, 08:42:53 PM
From what I saw on the video the SUV driver should be charged with Assault with a deadly weapon, and at least 2 counts of Attempted Murder. Hopefully the police got to the scene before the driver of the Range Rover got dragged out of the vehicle.
Fred
Fred, according to the article they didn't. All I can say is that this is the kind of issue that polarizes the community against motorcyclists. Especially when the news coverage is so profoundly negative in that regard. In the beginning of the video the behavior of the "bikers" is terribly discourteous and they are breaking many traffic laws. That doesn't help our image when we are trying to share the roads with people that already have a negative perception of us.
Have I wanted to drag a driver out of their car after they hit me? YES. But I waited for the cops to arrive. (The officer even told the driver that she she was lucky I didn't drag her out of the car and beat her to death) Of course that comment really bothered me because it further underscored our bad name. Yes, she did something COLOSSALLY STUPID. But she didn't deserve to be "beaten" for it. License suspended sure, beaten, no.
It's one of those runaway emotion situations and the SUV driver was probably making panic fueled decisions.
No one is coming out of this one cleanly...
I agree that there is much to this video that we did not see. Something happened with the SUV before the video started. Being in an accident from a car driver not paying attention or distracted and pulling out in front of you, merging on you or rear ending you is one thing. To intentionally rear end on rider and then to be stopped and run over two or three other riders is another thing all together.
Yes the riders appear to be squids and are obnoxious and harassing, that still does not give the driver of a 4 wheeled vehicle the right to hit a rider intentionally.
Fred
You know, I've been thinking about this.....and what I'm gonna say is probably going to piss you off, however...
If I were in that situation, I'm sorry to say but Rule #1 applies: the safety of my family comes first....and foremost.
Crowd hysteria is unpredictable and often volitile. I would not have stopped until my family was safe.
4900 lb Range Rover vs. motorcycles...that's a easy decision....see rule #1..
To be boxed in and stopped on a public highway is a unacceptable risk to my family regardless of who is at fault.
That being said...Should I be....
1) Arrested and charged with Assault with a deadly weapon or even (God forbid) voluntary manslaughter?
Absolutely.
2) Subject to numerous civil lawsuits?
Absolutely.
3) Lose my home and possessions to civil judgements and have my wages/retirement garnished for the rest of my life?
Yep, quite possible, even highly likely.
Would it be worth it?
Absolutely (see rule #1)
Based on what was on the video, that bike pulled in front of the SUV and deliberately braked hard.
With that many people around me, I'm with Pat.
Although with that many bikes going past me in a cage I would have taken my foot off the accelerator as soon as i saw them in Rear mirror. I've learnt its easier to let idiots past and sort themselves out up ahead.
Had it still happened as it did in the video, i probably would have hit reverse instead of going forward.
what preceded that incident would be good to know
As said there is much not seen.
I would most likely have done something the same as crowd mentality was about to kick in.
Yeap I'm with Pat
I'm with you Pat!
I read quite a few of the comments below the actual news article and as some have mentioned...these things can be polarizing. What I find sad is that there's a clear tendency to take a side, not on the merits of what happened...or the merits of right or wrong...but on preconceived biases either for bikers or for families...or against "biker gangs" or against "rich guys in Land Rovers." It's sad that people will be convicted in the minds of many based on a prejudice for or against someones lifestyle (bikers) or someones status (Range Rover).
That being said, I have been in both situations...
On the bike:
Lots of close calls, people not looking, distracted drivers...That's part of life and I have to be aware of that everytime I ride. I truly believe one should not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance...I just shake my head and move on. However, twice in 27 years, I was deliberately "pinched" on the bike either into another car or off the road on purpose. I was by myself on both occasions and I viewed this as deliberate assault. Both of those drivers had their passenger mirrors broken off. Not sure how that happened. :scratch_one-s_head: :biggrin:
In the car:
I've had packs of 20-30 sportbikes buzzing me on blind canyon corners. Crossing double yellow lines in the process with cars coming in the other direction causing them to ditch off to the shoulder..."Scaring" the old lady in front of me off the road. I found myself wishing one of them would go down for giving motorcyclists a bad image.
I know what we're up against out there, but people in cars can be douchebags...and people on bikes can be douchebags.
In this case, it appears that one of the bikers brake-checked the Range Rover and he got tapped in the rear wheel. The fact there even was a brake-check leads me to believe that there was some prior exchange and someone needed to prove something. I don't know if the Range Rover could have avoided hitting the bike, but I do know that the bike could have avoided being hit 100% by not brake-checking. Just stupid. Once that happened, it became pack-mentality.
If I was in that SUV with a wife and a kid, I would have seen this scenario unfolding nearly the same as it ultimately did...being blocked on the road and being surrounded by ever-increasing numbers of pissed off guys on bikes, you can quickly imagine how this will end. IF I believed that I...or anyone with me...was in further danger, I would have plowed my way out of there too. Sort this out in court later, but if you back a man into a corner, don't be shocked if the outcome isn't what you expected.
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 30, 2013, 11:19:45 PM
You know, I've been thinking about this.....and what I'm gonna say is probably going to piss you off, however...
If I were in that situation, I'm sorry to say but Rule #1 applies: the safety of my family comes first....and foremost.
Crowd hysteria is unpredictable and often volitile. I would not have stopped until my family was safe.
4900 lb Range Rover vs. motorcycles...that's a easy decision....see rule #1..
To be boxed in and stopped on a public highway is a unacceptable risk to my family regardless of who is at fault.
That being said...Should I be....
1) Arrested and charged with Assault with a deadly weapon or even (God forbid) voluntary manslaughter?
Absolutely.
2) Subject to numerous civil lawsuits?
Absolutely.
3) Lose my home and possessions to civil judgements and have my wages/retirement garnished for the rest of my life?
Yep, quite possible, even highly likely.
Would it be worth it?
Absolutely (see rule #1)
Pat, you're right, your answers do piss me off, but probably for a different reason.
The law say that you may act in self defense (or of others, i.e. your family) if a reasonable person would have felt the same way in the same circumstances. If I'm in a cage with the family and a pack of bikers force me to stop and approach in a threatening manner, I'm gonna act to protect everyone in my party. No jury of my peers
should convict me of ANY crime, based the above circumstances. You are allowed to defend yourself in the USA (for now, until Eric Holdup http://www.justice.gov/ag/ (http://www.justice.gov/ag/) gets his way).
My $0.02
Hey Ed, let me explain....
I would expect to be arrested....however, notice I did not say anything about a conviction. I think it's reasonable for a jury to acquit, based on the points you make...
Civil court....that's a different matter. The burden of proof is much lower than criminal court.
Beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal) vs. the preponderance of evidence (civil)
Ask OJ....civil court is a bitch.
Quiz time: who is the only 5'4" Jewish guy to own a Heisman Trophy?
If i was in suv being chased i wouldn't have stopped. I would have continued at highway speed. Then slammed on brakes causing the optimal chain reaction of bobbling bikes . D bags on both sides from what I can see though. Reason one million and one why I would never ever live in north east.
My first reaction when I saw this was that the SUV was in the wrong lane for some reason, with the motorcyclists on either side of him. From what was shown on the video, you can not tell if the motorcyclists came up on the SUV and then decided to pass on both sides or if something else had put the SUV in the middle lane. You can definitely not tell who started things before the video starts.
Once the rider pulled in front of the SUV and did the brake check, the situation was out of control. I do not know if the SUV driver could have locked the doors, turned off the engine and turned on the emergency flashers and used a cell phone to call the police, but there was a lot of poor judgement on both sides. Given that the driver had his wife and daughter in the SUV, I can't blame him for leaving.
Hey Pat, Ron,
I completely understand "Rule #1" and agree. But at what point does protecting your family lead to the stark raving panic that has a man using a SUV in a monster truck rally fashion?
What I'm saying is, I think the guy crossed the Rubicon when he drove over the three bikes and started running flat out. The initial incident where the bike got tapped from behind looked blatantly deliberate on the rider's part. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. BUT, I really think the guy freaked out and played into the escalation of things when he lost it. I mean, the report says they were "Damaging the vehicle" Okay, that could mean anything from banging on it and making a dent, scratching the paint, or pulling off trim. Judging by the way the guy was able to speed off the tires were untouched. In my way of thinking, let the morons beat on the car and get themselves sorted out. It's insured, nobody is getting hurt, and the police will come. Now, if they had broken a window and violated the space inside the SUV, THAT'S another thing entirely.
When I got hit as a single rider, I went over to the station wagon that hit me and rapped on the woman's window. She ignored me and locked the doors. I asked her "I just want to know what you were thinking when you saw me" She told me she was calling the cops. I said fine and sat on her hood. We sat there for 15 minutes as I started to grow sore.
Now, that was a completely different situation. But had she driven off at that point I would have been pretty enraged, in spite of the fact that I had already taken a picture of her car, capturing the damage and her license plate.
I can only imagine how the riders, who were already acting in the worst interests of the community, felt when this guy fled the scene. An opportunity for cooler heads to prevail was completely pissed away when the SUV driver stooped to the level of the hooligans he encountered. Now, if the morons outside had been as aggressive as they were at the END of the five minute chase and been using helmets to bust my window... Or put another way, he got pulled from his vehicle and brutally beaten because he DROVE OVER PEOPLE and ran out of places to run. If they had exhibited that kind of aggression from the get go, then YES, that level of reaction trying to flee would have been justified because there was imminent danger to yourself and family. You'd bet your ass it would have been a balls out run to protect my family. But "protecting my family" does not give me the right to run people down for vandalizing my expensive car.
I hope my comments piss people off. But there is plenty of blame on both sides here. This was an educated man that started thinking like a cave man. He took his several thousand pound vehicle and ran roughshod over people further angering a swarm of bees. Hind sight is 20-20, so if I were in that position maybe I would have freaked out early. But I can tell you this, now that I've had the opportunity to fully consider this scenario, I would rather just suck it up and take some damage to paint and body work, then fully enrage 75+ people. Protecting my family would be "Rule #1". But deadly force should be reserved when there is imminent danger to life.
Well, shoot. I was editing it and that "hope I piss peopl off" line didn't come out right. It should be, "I hope people are pissed off, and think about how mistakes were made on both sides here"
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/)
Deadly force? Yep...someone comes after me and my family with a knife (they slashed his tires) ....I'm outta here....
A tragic situation. Will the driver will face criminal charges? Dunno, but for sure, civil court will be a bitch....
I've seen the video, they way these idiots where riding, they caused the incident, they should be charged, not the SUV driver
Quote from: crzyjarmans on October 01, 2013, 02:24:13 PM
I've seen the video, they way these idiots where riding, they caused the incident, they should be charged, not the SUV driver
You know it's interesting how challenging it becomes to separate hard information from all of the spin in the news reports. I heard one account at work that said that the driver of the SUV was in a medically induced coma. Turns out, it was the rider that the fellow ran over.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on October 01, 2013, 01:21:22 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/)
Deadly force? Yep...someone comes after me and my family with a knife (they slashed his tires) ....I'm outta here....
A tragic situation. Will the driver will face criminal charges? Dunno, but for sure, civil court will be a bitch....
Reports of damage to the vehicle are also difficult to sort out. From watching the video carefully it's hard to see if the riders are actually doing anything other than just being menacing (Which is bad enough) If you fast forward to the end where the vehicle stops, you can clearly see that the two drivers side tires are intact. I'd love to see what the condition of the passenger ones are. I wonder if the slashing didn't happen until after vehicle finally came to a stop and the driver was pulled out. Or if it was done at the second stop as an attempt to prevent the driver from continuing.
I completely agree that the riders were being complete morons leading up to the initial bump. But I find it really REALLY hard to absolve the driver of his actions. Then again, I find the behavior of the riders deplorable as well. I will say that personally, if I had been in the group, I would have been cool after the first incident. Low speed, rider kinda being an idiot and causing it, and the SUV stopping. Yeah, that's just fine. Everybody chill out and take a breath. Which it looked like was happening. Guy in a car driving OVER a dude? That would be hard to sit by and watch. I would have definitely been calling the cops and following the guy.
Another thing is the conditions leading up to this lone SUV being surrounded are unclear. I read in one report, that in the minutes leading up to the incident the driver of the SUV had been antagonizing the riders and casting obscenities as them. Presumably for hogging the road. Although I do find it hard to believe that to be the case given that his wife and child were in the car and he was celebrating an anniversary. Though it does strike me as odd for the riders to single out a vehicle this way for no apparent reason. I mean yeah, they were acting like idiots, but why pick on a random SUV? Not that anything the SUV driver did should have provoked that type of behavior. Well, once he drove over the guy, that definitely got a predictable response...
I watched the video a few times, and it is really unclear what lead up to the footage. But honestly...............who cares.
The real story is what happened during the video............
If your band of squid-biker wanna-be tough guys surrounds my vehicle to slow me down and stop me, to try to gain entry into my vehicle. Now you have just put me in fear for me and my family's safety, and you just gave up your right to live by being part of the car-jacking mob...........Sorry, but I will run your shit over every day of the week to get away from you..........Period!
I am actually sad that the guy ran into traffic and got pulled out of his vehicle and beaten in front of his family............
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 30, 2013, 11:19:45 PM
You know, I've been thinking about this.....and what I'm gonna say is probably going to piss you off, however...
If I were in that situation, I'm sorry to say but Rule #1 applies: the safety of my family comes first....and foremost.
Crowd hysteria is unpredictable and often volitile. I would not have stopped until my family was safe.
4900 lb Range Rover vs. motorcycles...that's a easy decision....see rule #1..
To be boxed in and stopped on a public highway is a unacceptable risk to my family regardless of who is at fault.
That being said...Should I be....
1) Arrested and charged with Assault with a deadly weapon or even (God forbid) voluntary manslaughter?
Absolutely.
2) Subject to numerous civil lawsuits?
Absolutely.
3) Lose my home and possessions to civil judgements and have my wages/retirement garnished for the rest of my life?
Yep, quite possible, even highly likely.
Would it be worth it?
Absolutely (see rule #1)
I agree.... It looked to me like the idiot that stopped in front of the Rover is who started the whole thing. He was probably trying to stop traffic so they could do some stunting.... Rover driver hit him, because what idiot stops in the middle of the freaking freeway???
From there, the pack wanted blood.....
Quote from: skymasteres on October 01, 2013, 10:57:13 AM
Hey Pat, Ron,
I completely understand "Rule #1" and agree. But at what point does protecting your family lead to the stark raving panic that has a man using a SUV in a monster truck rally fashion?
What I'm saying is, I think the guy crossed the Rubicon when he drove over the three bikes and started running flat out. The initial incident where the bike got tapped from behind looked blatantly deliberate on the rider's part. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. BUT, I really think the guy freaked out and played into the escalation of things when he lost it. I mean, the report says they were "Damaging the vehicle" Okay, that could mean anything from banging on it and making a dent, scratching the paint, or pulling off trim. Judging by the way the guy was able to speed off the tires were untouched. In my way of thinking, let the morons beat on the car and get themselves sorted out. It's insured, nobody is getting hurt, and the police will come. Now, if they had broken a window and violated the space inside the SUV, THAT'S another thing entirely.
As soon as they started to surround the car, beat on the doors, try to OPEN the doors, I would have done exactly what he did. Police reports say they started to slash tires after the 1st incident, when the douche brake-checked them..... There were hundreds of assholes surrounding the Rover, what would you think they were going to do, if you were in that vehicle???
Quote from: RichBaker on October 01, 2013, 07:40:16 PM
As soon as they started to surround the car, beat on the doors, try to OPEN the doors, I would have done exactly what he did. Police reports say they started to slash tires after the 1st incident, when the douche brake-checked them..... There were hundreds of assholes surrounding the Rover, what would you think they were going to do, if you were in that vehicle???
I don't know Rich. I've re-watched the video several times now. And to me it looks for all the world like people screwing around then having something actually happen. (The collision) And everybody just stops. The body language of the crown is kind of like "Uhhh, well now what?" There looks like there's some activity by the SUV, but it doesn't look like they're doing anything more than knocking on it. There was hardly time for anything to really develop though as the driver really gunned it to climb over all that metal and the people. I mean the car takes a 30 degree tilt or so. Once THAT happened it was over. You went from a minor fender bender to potential vehicular manslaughter quicker than those bikes go from 0-60. (Okay, 25 seconds. And yes, a lot can happen in half a minute. But there doesn't look like there was nearly that level on energy...)
Or put another way. It takes the biker that jumps off his bike, completely fueled by rage, 20 seconds to grab his helmet, beat the window in, and get the driver out. And that was after a four minute chase with a second bike being run over. To say these guys were angry was an understatement. At that point the driver WAS in REAL danger. But there wasn't anything he could do about it.
The day before I went down to the Redbull Flugtag I had a scary run in with some spanish (I think) gang members. I was finishing up pumping gas and an intoxicated man started trying to engage me in conversation. I ignored him, but he persisted and then started shoving me. I pushed back and he punched my helmet. I hit him in the shoulder and he lost his balance falling down. What I didn't realize was, half a dozen of his friends were watching this and when the drunk went down they started shouting and coming after me. I got the bike started and in gear before they got to me, but had to push past them to get away, knocking one them down in the process.
And holy shit. Now that I'm actually going through it blow by blow there is an Erie level of similarity.
Look, the long story short is, I ended up fleeing. Speeding, running with my high beams on, blaring my horn (That 113dB Wolo) , and being deliberately conspicuous hoping I would attract LEO attention because I had a Cadillac and a pickup truck chasing me. I made some really bad route choices and completely underestimated their will to find me. In an hour I ended up 90 miles north of where I started in Ridgecrest if front of a little police station. I rode up on the sidewalk and thumbed the horn until an officer came out. He waited with me for another hour as the guys giving chase lost interest and finally left. I took another route home and made it without further incident. But I was wrecked for that evening. The 395 is a BAD BAD road to be on at dusk, when trying to extract maximum performance from a bike you've never pushed that hard and has a squared off rear tire.
I made a LOT of mistakes there, and one of the biggest ones was thinking I'd gotten away, only to see a guy hanging out of a pickup truck swinging a bat in my direction. If I had been thinking straight I would have gone to my local police station instead of thinking I didn't want to lead these guys to my home.
What would I have done in that SUV? Locked my doors and waited in the comfort of my steel cage until sufficiently threatened to make my survival a priority over the safety of other motorists. Knock on the windows? So what? Rock the think a little? Getting iffy. Start pitching it over? Hammer down and get the hell out of there. Break my windows? Oh no, I'm out of there. Pound on the hood or doors? Fine, it can be fixed. Slash a tire? (How the heck would I know...) I would have taken seeing a firearm or other weapon (Like a pipe or tire iron), seeing guys lining up and feeling the vehicle start to pitch, or them breaking a window to make me bail like that. (I'm a chicken on a bike. )
+1 Pat
+1 Alan
Being a biker I would have first got the fuck out of the way and let these d bags pass me. Obviously these guys were looking for trouble. However between them and my family? Lucky only one of those fuckers got their legs broke!
Andrew
I understand that the SUV driver hit a bike before the vidio starts. If we were out for a ride during one of our rallies and someone in an SUV hit one of us and tried to drive off, would you give chase?
I read an article that said that the bikers were trying to close the road off illegally they had already closed off some on ramps. These idiots were trying to make the road theirs, presumably for stunts etc. I'm not sure if the accident 'before the video' was not actually during the video -it looks as if it may be. So if the SUV driver hit a bike that was doing something stupid (like oh, say, trying to keep the SUV off the road by, swerving in front of, and jamming on your breaks in front of a 4,500lb car as you can see in the video -never smart on a bike) then it was likely the bike's fault. The SUV driver stopped after the accident, and what did he get for his trouble? Asshole bikers beating his car with their helmets, pounding on his windows, and slashing his tires.
The biker that did the filming erased/ did not include the footage of the gang beating the snot out of the driver. It seems to me, the bikers terrorized this guy and he acted out of that terror.
If I'm surrounded by that many angry bikers, with my 2 year old kid, and wife in the car with me, I'd likely do the same as the SUV driver did.
Dan
man with wife and kid....surrounded and forced to stop.....fear factor took over....it is the protective nature of a man.....this is perfect evidence of the ever growing rift between cars and bikes.....in this case.....there are no winners....sad event on every front !!!
These assclowns call themselves "Hollywood Stuntz" and do a yearly takeover of Times Square in Manhattan. Here's that same group riding down Fresh Pond Road in Queens, NY in 2011:
Same Group Of Bikers Attacking Another Driver in 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=059HJUfa6IU#)
I lost count of the traffic violations, another car assault at 1:10, speeding down sidewalks, riding in opposing lanes, using a gas station to avoid a traffic light, running redlights, blocking entry or exit of cars in a strip mall, blocking traffic, doing dognuts in the street. Yeah, fine group representing motorcyclists here.
I also see that they took down their own YouTube channel. Lawyers may have advised them to do so...
Cap'n Ron. . .
I saw enough to know that if these bikers were riding like idiots when the video starts after the initial confrontation, they were probably being idiots before the video starts, and freaked the guy out. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong, and didn't also do something stupid, but he might have been scared for his life and family's safety by whatever they were doing before the video started.
Quote from: skymasteres on October 01, 2013, 10:38:32 PM
Quote from: RichBaker on October 01, 2013, 07:40:16 PM
As soon as they started to surround the car, beat on the doors, try to OPEN the doors, I would have done exactly what he did. Police reports say they started to slash tires after the 1st incident, when the douche brake-checked them..... There were hundreds of assholes surrounding the Rover, what would you think they were going to do, if you were in that vehicle???
What would I have done in that SUV? Locked my doors and waited in the comfort of my steel cage until sufficiently threatened to make my survival a priority over the safety of other motorists. Knock on the windows? So what? Rock the think a little? Getting iffy. Start pitching it over? Hammer down and get the hell out of there. Break my windows? Oh no, I'm out of there. Pound on the hood or doors? Fine, it can be fixed. Slash a tire? (How the heck would I know...) I would have taken seeing a firearm or other weapon (Like a pipe or tire iron), seeing guys lining up and feeling the vehicle start to pitch, or them breaking a window to make me bail like that. (I'm a chicken on a bike. )
How about when the knives come out and they start slashing tires? According to reports, that's when he drove over the bikes(1st incident) and took off.....
My 1st post on this is based on the video, No can positively say what happen before the video, So, From what I've seen, I guarantee, that guy bashing my window in with his helmet, He would have be lying motionless on his back
Quote from: crzyjarmans on October 02, 2013, 08:01:08 PM
My 1st post on this is based on the video, No can positively say what happen before the video,
In one of the reports I read this afternoon, the "Hollywood Stuntz" bikers were trying to take over that section of the Henry Hudson Parkway...essentially closing it down to 4-wheeled traffic. Some bikes had already blocked several on-ramps so no cars could enter the road. It's possible that the first altercation we see on the video was an attempt by Christopher Cruz to perform a rolling road-block on the SUV.
Cap'n Ron. . .
I'm sorry guys, but I have seen enough of these assholes to not care what happens to them. They seem to bring it all on themselves and should get whatever punishment is hand down to them.
I wouldn't ever want to be a part of a group like that.
Just shameful to act like that on public roads.
Typical of a generation that were given, "time-outs" instead of getting a good old fashioned spanking for not behaving themselves as children.
They grew up never knowing the consequences for their bad behavior.
Rant over.
Leon!
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 02, 2013, 10:06:00 PM
I wouldn't ever want to be a part of a group like that.
Just shameful to act like that on public roads.
Typical of a generation that were given, "time-outs" instead of getting a good old fashioned spanking for not behaving themselves as children.
They grew up never knowing the consequences for their bad behavior.
Rant over.
Leon!
Nice rant Leon...
I often wonder how this "Participation Trophy" generation is going to shake out. Now if these meddling kids would just GET OFF MY LAWN!!! :biggrin:
Cap'n Ron. . .
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 02, 2013, 10:06:00 PM
I'm sorry guys, but I have seen enough of these assholes to not care what happens to them. They seem to bring it all on themselves and should get whatever punishment is hand down to them.
I wouldn't ever want to be a part of a group like that.
Just shameful to act like that on public roads.
Typical of a generation that were given, "time-outs" instead of getting a good old fashioned spanking for not behaving themselves as children.
They grew up never knowing the consequences for their bad behavior.
Rant over.
Leon!
I like your rant as well, When I was growing up, when you did wrong, There where real punishment, Not time-outs, I never like this way of thinking, I know a couple that thinks buy something for their child after he does something wrong will keep him from doing it again, Just unbelievable
Quote from: 1tinindian on October 02, 2013, 10:06:00 PM
Typical of a generation that were given, "time-outs" instead of getting a good old fashioned spanking for not behaving themselves as children.
They grew up never knowing the consequences for their bad behavior.
Rant over.
Leon!
I think that this is a problem probably the world over. My wife works in a primary school and the stories she tells me about their behaviour defies belief, such as a 4yr old that cracks a shit over something and starts trashing the room, tipping tables over with computers on them, throwing shit around the room, threatening staff,(no joke) etc...and they are powerless to do anything about it.
You can't enforce discipline( like getting a cane across your hand ) in schools anymore, and kids know this by doing something wrong and then saying" You can't touch me" to your face, and of course these kids grow up with the same attitude, getting into trouble, going to court knowing full well that they'll just get a slap on the wrist, and continue into adult life with no respect for any laws or anyone.
The sooner politicians change laws so that you can "discipline" again the better, then maybe in future there won't be so many deadshits running amock in the streets.
And now it is revealed that one of the assailants was an undercover cop. Nice work.
I saw that too.........................I hope he gets the justice he deserves.