Can anyone shed some light on the self canceling indicators that these bikes are supposedly fitted with. Were they fitted to all models, or only available to certain countries.
The reason I ask is there has been a few times after initially indicating, that I've forgotten to push the button to turn them off and travelled down the road a fair distance before noticing the light flashing.
Although I've had no mishaps yet, I can envision people coming out of side streets, see your blinker on, think your turning, and pull out in front of you and T Boning a car, or truck.
If they were fitted to all bikes, what would be the problem with mine not working. Everything else that is supposed to work on my bike does, except that.
Tony.
Not all FJs had this feature as it was dropped somewhere after 1986.
My 91 FJ does not have them, but my 82 Suzuki does.
Topic has come up before.
Leon
Thanks Leon, at least I know there's nothing amiss now.
Yea, I have them on my '84 (i like them) and I *think* I recall someone saying that they had them on their '87 but they did not come on the '88 or newer FJ's ('89 in the US)
They are a nice feature but they do tend to make me lazy when I take them for granted.
I have to retrain myself when I ride my '92.
It is a dangerous mistake to leave your indicators on...something we should be trained to prevent.
It's just as dangerous to have malfunctioning self canceling indicators....self canceling that does not self cancel.
Perhaps why Yamaha and other manufacturers stopped using them.
My '89 has them.
They still work on my 82 Suzuki and I like them. Wish the FJ had them.
Leon
My 89 has them as well. I've left them blinking on occasion on my 92...not good! I think Noel has rigged some sort of led flasher to remind him they were in use.
Andrew
My '85 also has them. They worked fine until I fitted LED indicators but haven't worked since. I just make sure I turn them off after use. It becomes an automatic reaction after a while.
My 1990 has them.
Joe
87 has them.
Last time this was discussed I was amazed at the ho hum attitude of many to the dangers of riding with your indicator on. It is THE most stupid, dangerous and avoidable thing you can do in traffic. Someone here I recall had the problem licked, he advocated not using them at all, preferring a low hand signal. Not sure how that works with throttle, clutch and at night though or if drivers these days would even know what he was doing.
I don't like (trust) self cancelling indicators and as you all know, the FJ tell tales are not easy to see.
Yes, yes, yes, I know many of you NEVER forget, but for the rest of us driving in a busy environment distractions can pop out of nowhere with no notice and interrupt the sequence. I probably remember 999 out of 1000 but I still don't like those odds if it means a car is going to pull out right in front of me of turn across my bows.
I bought one of these (wouldn't waste my time making one for the money)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-indicator-warning-LED-a-must-have-/220540828057?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item335941f999&_uhb=1 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-indicator-warning-LED-a-must-have-/220540828057?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item335941f999&_uhb=1)
It comes waterproofed externally, diodes, splitter and joins all shrink wrapped internally, flexible stalk and fittings all for under $20 including postage from the UK.
It is one of those gadgets that makes me smile (internally) every time I see it flashing because it just the perfect solution for hardly any money.
It can be seen easily in direct sunlight and the brightness can be controlled by angling it away slightly.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8671278313_40bff0b7c5_o.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8671277283_b578e5db08_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8560/8841452997_f1ed445096_c.jpg)
Love it.
Noel
(popcorn)
Waiting for someone to make the connection between gaining the pink stripe vs. losing the self cancelling signals... :bomb:
My 90 also has them. We were discussing self cancelling turn indicators in another group last week. Seems that on some of the newer motorcycles, ie Victorys, they are available as an option at around $300.00. I think that is rather expensive, since they are standard on cars and have been for years, but it was pointed out to me that the car sensors can cancel based on the angle of the front wheel. That would let the system know that the car had been turned. Motorcycle ones would have to have some sort of tilt/time switch setup. I think a simple timer on the light would at least make a safer system than no cancellation at all. I find that I have left my signal on for several blocks on my 250 scooter and yup, it's dangerous. :bomb:
Quote from: novaraptor on September 16, 2013, 09:21:43 AM
My 90 also has them. We were discussing self cancelling turn indicators in another group last week. Seems that on some of the newer motorcycles, ie Victorys, they are available as an option at around $300.00. I think that is rather expensive, since they are standard on cars and have been for years, but it was pointed out to me that the car sensors can cancel based on the angle of the front wheel. That would let the system know that the car had been turned. Motorcycle ones would have to have some sort of tilt/time switch setup. I think a simple timer on the light would at least make a safer system than no cancellation at all. I find that I have left my signal on for several blocks on my 250 scooter and yup, it's dangerous. :bomb:
The Yamaha signals are speed/time/distance sensitive, so if you have to stop, they remain on until the required distance is covered. No tilt angle sensor used that I'm aware of.
In cars it is very easy, the switch is in the steering column, it gets canceled when you turn the steering wheel back towards center. But it really is not difficult to do on bikes either, a simple timer after the clutch is released would work. $300 is a rip off for a safety feature.
Quote from: FJmonkey on September 16, 2013, 10:40:53 AM.....a simple timer after the clutch is released would work. $300 is a rip off for a safety feature.
A bit more involved than that.... The distance timer interfaced with the speedo turns them off when using them to change lanes on the freeway
Quote from: FJmonkey on September 16, 2013, 10:40:53 AM
In cars it is very easy, the switch is in the steering column, it gets canceled when you turn the steering wheel back towards center. But it really is not difficult to do on bikes either, a simple timer after the clutch is released would work. $300 is a rip off for a safety feature.
It is done on the Honda Goldwing with a switch in the center of the steering stem. Works just it does on a car.
Joe
Joe, it's gotta be more than that, otherwise, how would the Goldwing's indicators shut off when changing lanes on the freeway?
Pat,
I will check the Goldwing wiring diagram to see if it used a distance from the speedo to calculate a distance as well. To be honest, I don't remember how it cancelled after a lane change. I do remember that the blinkers often didn't stay on long enough. You usually had to punch them twice during a turn.
Joe
If anything, my pet peeve goes the other way. I have found myself signalling a left turn, get held at the red light or within the intersection and notice the signal has gone off and I have to move the switch again to turn it back on. It's distracting at that point to have my attention away from the traffic, and I don't like the feeling of knowing I was a sitting duck with no indicator telegraphing my next move.
On topic; if a turn involves (some or all of these) head checks, releasing the brake, easing out the clutch, rolling on the throttle, turn down the throttle, clutch in, snicking up a gear, clutch etc. etc and checking the mirrors or doing head checks, is it too much to throw "cancel the signals" in there? It's just another thing I do to complete the turn automatically. The turn's not done until I kill the signals. No big deal.
Quote from: Charlie-brm on September 19, 2013, 09:47:13 PM
Is it too much to throw "cancel the signals" in there? It's just another thing I do to complete the turn automatically. The turn's not done until I kill the signals. No big deal.
I agree...there are so many variables in indicating what I'm up to to other vehicles. Sometimes it's a quick lane change...sometimes, I'm looking for a little compassion from another driver to get a little room in a packed 8-lane intersection...maybe I'm making the one-time rolling "right on red"...maybe I'm trying to indicate to fellow riders behind me that we're going to be making a left at the next turn a 1/4 mile up the road with a quick flash of the left turn signal.
In all the above, I like turning it on when I want it to be on, and stabbing the switch with my thumb when I want it to be off. That being said, I find myself "over canceling"...that is to say that I'm paranoid if I remembered to turn the signal off so I'm doing the OCD thing with the switch two or three times until I'm convinced it's off. It's especially prevalent when I see a biker ahead of me that left theirs on for the last mile!
Cap'n Ron. . .
Yep, ya gotta agree with Charlie..... Although I do like Noel's solution... :good2:
I agree with Ron. I find myself self canceling almost 100% of the time. I will on occasion let it self cancel because I am curious as to if it works more than relying on them. Old school I guess.
In reviewing the service manual it states:
"Generally the signal will self cancel after either 10 seconds or 490 feet, which ever is greater. At very low speed function is determined by distance; at high speed, especially when changing speeds the cancelling determination is a combination of times and distance. The self cancelling mechanism only operates when the bike is moving"
I guess Yamaha got all there bases covered there :dash1: :lol: :lol:
George
Quote from: Capn Ron on September 19, 2013, 10:05:56 PM
I find myself "over canceling"...
Cap'n Ron. . .
YEP...... stab that cancel button 3 or 4 times just to make sure, especially now that I have the digital dash - the turn signal tell-tales are hard to see particularly when full sunlight on the dash.
Harvy
My 86 has them and think they are great. Also on my 78 XS11E. :good2: Was pissed of when I bought my FJR and they didn't have them.. :dash2:
Quote from: Capn Ron on September 19, 2013, 10:05:56 PM
Quote from: Charlie-brm on September 19, 2013, 09:47:13 PM
Is it too much to throw "cancel the signals" in there? It's just another thing I do to complete the turn automatically. The turn's not done until I kill the signals. No big deal.
I agree...there are so many variables in indicating what I'm up to to other vehicles. Sometimes it's a quick lane change...sometimes, I'm looking for a little compassion from another driver to get a little room in a packed 8-lane intersection...maybe I'm making the one-time rolling "right on red"...maybe I'm trying to indicate to fellow riders behind me that we're going to be making a left at the next turn a 1/4 mile up the road with a quick flash of the left turn signal.
In all the above, I like turning it on when I want it to be on, and stabbing the switch with my thumb when I want it to be off. That being said, I find myself "over canceling"...that is to say that I'm paranoid if I remembered to turn the signal off so I'm doing the OCD thing with the switch two or three times until I'm convinced it's off. It's especially prevalent when I see a biker ahead of me that left theirs on for the last mile!
Cap'n Ron. . .
Even the most sophisticated self cancelling indicators have limitations that do not adequately cover all circumstances on a bike in traffic, as per Cap' Ron's observations.
Indicating, or not indicating on a bike, particularly in traffic, at exactly the right moment and for exactly the right time is just plain dangerous and the only way to have control over that is manually.
Quote from: Charlie-brm on September 19, 2013, 09:47:13 PM
is it too much to throw "cancel the signals" in there? It's just another thing I do to complete the turn automatically. The turn's not done until I kill the signals. No big deal.
That's fine Charlie, and that's what we do most of the time. But it's when something interrupts the sequence that we forget. Any distraction can, and does, cause this.
My coffee machine has 19,000 cups showing on the counter, all made by me. A simple process, a couple of buttons. However, if my wife or kids call my name or speak to me while doing it I forget where I was up to and often end up with double strength coffee or a cup made with rinsing water.
Or, on the road, you have just made your turn and straightened up and the car next to you is suddenly drifting into your lane, or a hundred other possible distractions, the sequence is lost and the indicator stays on.
I also used to be a serial cancel button stabber while cruising down the road. I have ridden bikes with all sorts of systems but after 40+ years riding the only fail safe solution I have found is the current one I mentioned a day or so back.
It's interesting to think that the solution to a 40 year old problem suddenly presents itself for less than $20. I have had some bikes where the tell tales are easy to see in all conditions but not many. None as easy to see as the LED though.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on September 15, 2013, 08:29:49 AM
Last time this was discussed I was amazed at the ho hum attitude of many to the dangers of riding with your indicator on. It is THE most stupid, dangerous and avoidable thing you can do in traffic. Someone here I recall had the problem licked, he advocated not using them at all, preferring a low hand signal. Not sure how that works with throttle, clutch and at night though or if drivers these days would even know what he was doing.
I don't like (trust) self cancelling indicators and as you all know, the FJ tell tales are not easy to see.
Yes, yes, yes, I know many of you NEVER forget, but for the rest of us driving in a busy environment distractions can pop out of nowhere with no notice and interrupt the sequence. I probably remember 999 out of 1000 but I still don't like those odds if it means a car is going to pull out right in front of me of turn across my bows.
I bought one of these (wouldn't waste my time making one for the money)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-indicator-warning-LED-a-must-have-/220540828057?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item335941f999&_uhb=1 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-indicator-warning-LED-a-must-have-/220540828057?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item335941f999&_uhb=1)
It comes waterproofed externally, diodes, splitter and joins all shrink wrapped internally, flexible stalk and fittings all for under $20 including postage from the UK.
It is one of those gadgets that makes me smile (internally) every time I see it flashing because it just the perfect solution for hardly any money.
It can be seen easily in direct sunlight and the brightness can be controlled by angling it away slightly.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8671278313_40bff0b7c5_o.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8671277283_b578e5db08_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8560/8841452997_f1ed445096_c.jpg)
Love it.
Noel
I liked your idea on the warning light Noel so went about my own version.
I have a xj900 that has self cancelling indicators that personally I love and found when swapping bike I was often leaving the indicators going on the FJ.
I bought the brightest LEDs that I could from Jaycar and made 2 one for each side.
I mounted them on stalks first off but found vibration an issue so drilled two holes in the trip on fairing and pointed the leds straight into my eyes.
They really stand out in your peripheral vision area, to be honest they are too bright at night but I can live with that
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/518_20_09_13_12_49_22.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/518_20_09_13_12_50_37.jpeg)
Cheers Phil
Quote from: biggo on September 20, 2013, 01:59:14 PM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/518_20_09_13_12_49_22.jpeg)
Cheers Phil
Phil, this is exactly what I had planned, in the exact same location, even bought the lights. Then I saw the one on ebay.
The advantage to that was the diodes let you get away with one light for both indicators. But I had planned what you did.
Good job!
Yeah, mine's pretty bright at night but who cares. It is a small price to pay for the job they do and it's not like they're on all the time, ANYMORE!
Noel
Great ideas...Thank you Noel and Phil! :good2:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 20, 2013, 07:48:58 PM
Great ideas...Thank you Noel and Phil! :good2:
Yeah, both of those are brilliant! Nice work!!!
Cap'n Ron. . .
Nice GPS setup how does your bracket fit to the bike ?
Quote from: biggo on September 20, 2013, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: ribbert on September 15, 2013, 08:29:49 AM
Last time this was discussed I was amazed at the ho hum attitude of many to the dangers of riding with your indicator on. It is THE most stupid, dangerous and avoidable thing you can do in traffic. Someone here I recall had the problem licked, he advocated not using them at all, preferring a low hand signal. Not sure how that works with throttle, clutch and at night though or if drivers these days would even know what he was doing.
I don't like (trust) self cancelling indicators and as you all know, the FJ tell tales are not easy to see.
Yes, yes, yes, I know many of you NEVER forget, but for the rest of us driving in a busy environment distractions can pop out of nowhere with no notice and interrupt the sequence. I probably remember 999 out of 1000 but I still don't like those odds if it means a car is going to pull out right in front of me of turn across my bows.
I bought one of these (wouldn't waste my time making one for the money)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-indicator-warning-LED-a-must-have-/220540828057?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item335941f999&_uhb=1 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Motorcycle-indicator-warning-LED-a-must-have-/220540828057?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item335941f999&_uhb=1)
It comes waterproofed externally, diodes, splitter and joins all shrink wrapped internally, flexible stalk and fittings all for under $20 including postage from the UK.
It is one of those gadgets that makes me smile (internally) every time I see it flashing because it just the perfect solution for hardly any money.
It can be seen easily in direct sunlight and the brightness can be controlled by angling it away slightly.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8671278313_40bff0b7c5_o.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8671277283_b578e5db08_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8560/8841452997_f1ed445096_c.jpg)
Love it.
Noel
I liked your idea on the warning light Noel so went about my own version.
I have a xj900 that has self cancelling indicators that personally I love and found when swapping bike I was often leaving the indicators going on the FJ.
I bought the brightest LEDs that I could from Jaycar and made 2 one for each side.
I mounted them on stalks first off but found vibration an issue so drilled two holes in the trip on fairing and pointed the leds straight into my eyes.
They really stand out in your peripheral vision area, to be honest they are too bright at night but I can live with that
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/518_20_09_13_12_49_22.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/518_20_09_13_12_50_37.jpeg)
Cheers Phil
. Nice GPS set up how does the bracket connect to the bike ?
Quote from: Goody on September 21, 2013, 03:04:30 AM
Nice GPS setup how does your bracket fit to the bike ?
It's a "Ram" mount with a u bolt fixing. It is attached to the riser on the LHS of the standard bars. I find the position perfect. From the riding position is just below the instruments and not in your face.
The double ball joint mount makes it infinitely adjustable. It also required no fabrication or drilling.
(http://www.gpscity.com/g/gps/l/4/ramb149ap1.jpg)
It is one of these (without the iphone mount) mounted sideways.
(http://www.gpscity.com/g/gps/l/z/zumocradle_img2.jpg)
with a hard wired fixed cradle, you can remove the GPS in a second.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7280/7620004382_8ac28cc42e_b.jpg)
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on September 21, 2013, 03:47:00 AM
Quote from: Goody on September 21, 2013, 03:04:30 AM
Nice GPS setup how does your bracket fit to the bike ?
It's a "Ram" mount with a u bolt fixing. It is attached to the riser on the LHS of the standard bars. I find the position perfect. From the riding position is just below the instruments and not in your face.
The double ball joint mount makes it infinitely adjustable. It also required no fabrication or drilling.
(http://www.gpscity.com/g/gps/l/4/ramb149ap1.jpg)
It is one of these (without the iphone mount) mounted sideways. Thanks for info have a 91 fj1200 and have been looking for the best option ( think I just found it ) have already fitted a 12v outlet yours looks great man
(http://www.gpscity.com/g/gps/l/z/zumocradle_img2.jpg)
with a hard wired fixed cradle, you can remove the GPS in a second.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7280/7620004382_8ac28cc42e_b.jpg)
Noel
Quote from: Goody on September 21, 2013, 03:57:59 AM
Thanks for info have a 91 fj1200 and have been looking for the best option ( think I just found it ) have already fitted a 12v outlet yours looks great man
If your reference to the 12v outlet was for the GPS, you won't need it. The cradle is hard wired.
I've had that on there for a few years now and if I was redoing it I don't think I would do it any differently, I am very happy with the position.
Noel