So I'm just not happy with the FJR clutch mod I've done to my 92. It just doesn't seen to engage the clutch properly. I find it difficult to down shift most of the time, and when the engine is really hot in traffic... forget it! I know it's bled properly because when I put it in gear from neutral the bike doesn't want to creep fwd, which I understand if it did then there is an issue. Any thoughts? Is there a clutch MC out there with a 5/8 bore I could revert to that has the same look as the FJR master with the adjustable lever? Or am I just missing something? My 89 shifts so much smoother with the stock MC. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Andrew
This might seem like a no-brainer, but have you tried the different positions on the lever?
I have the FJR clutch master on my 91 FJ and am very happy with its function.
Leon
I didn't like the FJR master cylinder on my clutch for the very same reasons. It just didn't seem to release quite enough and made shifting clunky and hard even with the lever set all teh way out. Just last weekend I re-installed the stock master cylinder and am much happier with the shifting now.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on August 20, 2013, 08:08:27 AM
I didn't like the FJR master cylinder on my clutch for the very same reasons. It just didn't seem to release quite enough and made shifting clunky and hard even with the lever set all teh way out. Just last weekend I re-installed the stock master cylinder and am much happier with the shifting now.
Irrespective of whether they work or not I have never quite understood why you would want an adjustable clutch lever. Certainly on the brake, but I can't see any advantage on the clutch. It obviously gives you the option of more progressive engagement over longer lever travel but I don't see that as desirable, just the opposite.
Someone care to enlighten me.
Noel
Noel, I would say that it all depends on where you like the feel of when/ where the clutch starts to engage.
I like it set to where it is close to the grip, instead of waiting for it, the farther out you release the lever.
.
Leon
The Kawasaki Concour has the stock looking clutch and brake masters. I put the a brake master on when I upgraded my front to 17" and noticed it is a 5/8 dia bore.
ZG1000 Kawasaki Concour (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-ZG1000-04-Motorcycle-Left-Clutch-Lever-Master-Cylinder/110985609578?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D16802%26meid%3D702582724488003442%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D7926%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D400537381010%26)
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 20, 2013, 08:53:23 AM
Noel, I would say that it all depends on where you like the feel of when/ where the clutch starts to engage.
I like it set to where it is close to the grip, instead of waiting for it, the farther out you release the lever.
.
Leon
Well Leon, if you have a preference for that sort of feel I guess that's a good enough reason. Personally I hate clutches that take up just off the grip but there is no right or wrong, just whatever feels right to you.
Noel
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 20, 2013, 08:57:50 AM
The Kawasaki Concour has the stock looking clutch and brake masters. I put the a brake master on when I upgraded my front to 17" and noticed it is a 5/8 dia bore.
ZG1000 Kawasaki Concour (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-ZG1000-04-Motorcycle-Left-Clutch-Lever-Master-Cylinder/110985609578?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D16802%26meid%3D702582724488003442%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D7926%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D400537381010%26)
A question, is the clutch switch the same ? Or I guess a better question is how did you handle that part of the conversion . :good2:
George
Quote from: movenon on August 20, 2013, 10:30:44 AM
A question, is the clutch switch the same ? Or I guess a better question is how did you handle that part of the conversion . :good2:
George
That is a very good question indeed as I still have my OEM clutch master. I was going to change it next time I work on the clutch.
Thanks everyone, Mark should I assume that if the Concours brake MC is 5/8 the clutch should be the same? I wonder if the FJR lever would fit.
Andrew
Quote from: Tapartacus on August 20, 2013, 10:58:17 AM
Thanks everyone, Mark should I assume that if the Concour brake MC is 5/8 the clutch should be the same?
Andrew
NO. Most (maybe all) m/cylinders will have the bore size cast into them. Don't assume the brake size m/c has any relation to the clutch m/c.
Arnie
Check this out. Says 14 on the casing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/92-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG-1000-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-LV-/150861115304 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/92-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG-1000-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-LV-/150861115304) It is from a 92 though. Monkey suggested 04.
Andrew
Quote from: movenon on August 20, 2013, 10:30:44 AM
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 20, 2013, 08:57:50 AM
The Kawasaki Concour has the stock looking clutch and brake masters. I put the a brake master on when I upgraded my front to 17" and noticed it is a 5/8 dia bore.
ZG1000 Kawasaki Concour (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-ZG1000-04-Motorcycle-Left-Clutch-Lever-Master-Cylinder/110985609578?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D16802%26meid%3D702582724488003442%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D7926%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D400537381010%26)
A question, is the clutch switch the same ? Or I guess a better question is how did you handle that part of the conversion . :good2:
George
Seems to me when I did mine George, the FJR switch has 3 prongs and the FJ is just a 2 wire.
You might have to check with a DDM or test lamp, but I think I didn't use the center prong, bent one of the outer prongs in towards the middle and spaced them to match the 2 wire FJ connector.
Plugged the connector in and it works like it should.
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 20, 2013, 12:47:06 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 20, 2013, 10:30:44 AM
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 20, 2013, 08:57:50 AM
The Kawasaki Concour has the stock looking clutch and brake masters. I put the a brake master on when I upgraded my front to 17" and noticed it is a 5/8 dia bore.
ZG1000 Kawasaki Concour (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-ZG1000-04-Motorcycle-Left-Clutch-Lever-Master-Cylinder/110985609578?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D16802%26meid%3D702582724488003442%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D7926%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D400537381010%26)
A question, is the clutch switch the same ? Or I guess a better question is how did you handle that part of the conversion . :good2:
George
Seems to me when I did mine George, the FJR switch has 3 prongs and the FJ is just a 2 wire.
You might have to check with a DDM or test lamp, but I think I didn't use the center prong, bent one of the outer prongs in towards the middle and spaced them to match the 2 wire FJ connector.
Plugged the connector in and it works like it should.
Leon
Thanks Mark and Leon. As I have to install new grips and replace the left turn signal switch I am thinking it would be as good a time as any to change out the clutch and brake master's. Blue spots are on the horizon and the clutch master at a min. should be rebuilt anyhow. Fred also suggested Honda GL 1800 units. The fluid couplings are on the front same as the stock FJ's. Good chance to convert to Dot 5 I guess. :lol:
George
I'm running with the fjr unit and i reckon its all good! Seems better than the original. I also have it set so the lever engages with the slightest release. FWIW
I know this thread is about the FJR Clutch mod. There has been a few members lately that have had issues/complaints with this mod, i.e. clutch switch wiring, and bleeding issues. Here is another option. I have been very happy with the following mod.
I did the VFR clutch and brake master cylinder mod on my 89'. The fluid holders look a bit different than either the FJ, FZ or the FJR. You can get them in Black, Painted silver or polished aluminum. For the clutch/brake switch. The VFR switches are 2 wire. Plug and play. For those interested here is the write up that I did for the mod.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9635.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9635.0)
Fred
Those look nice, Fred!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on August 20, 2013, 07:16:58 PM
Those look nice, Fred!
Leon
Leon,
I knew you would like them. I can't lay claim to the polished look. :flag_of_truce: They came that way when I purchased them. :pardon:
Fred
Quote from: nurse on August 20, 2013, 03:24:30 PM
I'm running with the fjr unit and i reckon its all good! Seems better than the original. I also have it set so the lever engages with the slightest release. FWIW
I thought the adjustment on the lever was just for rider comfort and had nothing to do with actual engagement/disengagement of clutch.
Fred, I also don't mind the VFR clutch MC but is it 5/8's bore?
Andrew
Quote from: Tapartacus on August 21, 2013, 12:55:43 AM
Quote from: nurse on August 20, 2013, 03:24:30 PM
I'm running with the fjr unit and i reckon its all good! Seems better than the original. I also have it set so the lever engages with the slightest release. FWIW
I thought the adjustment on the lever was just for rider comfort and had nothing to do with actual engagement/disengagement of clutch.
Fred, I also don't mind the VFR clutch MC but is it 5/8's bore?
Andrew
When you have fingers as short as mine it has everything to do with engagement! Set at normal the tip of my middle finger just about reaches!
:mocking: :good:
Quote from: Tapartacus on August 21, 2013, 12:55:43 AM
Fred, I also don't mind the VFR clutch MC but is it 5/8's bore?
Andrew
14mm.
So, what is the difference between the original FJ Master Cylinder, which is 14mm, and the VFR? What are the advantages for moving to the VFR clutch and brake?
Eyal
Shortly after I got my VFR master cylinders the clutch master started to weep/leak past the seal. For some reason I thought the set were 2004 models. I ordered a 04' VFR800 rebuild kit and when it came in it was too small in diameter. The rebuild kit had a 14mm piston and the clutch master I have has a 19mm piston. I am going to assume the brake master will be the same. So the reality is.... I don't know what year of master cylinders I have.
To answer the question of what is the benefit of replacing the OEM FJ clutch master with the VFR800 master. No real benefit on the clutch side, other than having a much newer assembly. The biggest performance gain was with the brake master. My brake system has the Arashi 300mm wave rotors, braided stainless steel lines, and R1 blue dot calipers. With the OEM FJ brake master the braking was greatly improved with the mentioned mods. Once the VFR master was installed there was an INCREDIBLE increase in stopping power.
A disclaimer here.... the master cylinder set I have was a brand new Chinese knock-off set. The year is not specified. I have spoke to a Honda parts manager and he is pretty sure that I have a 98'-01' set of master cylinders.
Here is the eBay link of the set that I have.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Honda-CB750-CB1000-CB1300-VFR800-Clutch-Brake-Master-Cylinder-2PC-/221115321758?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337b800d9e&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Honda-CB750-CB1000-CB1300-VFR800-Clutch-Brake-Master-Cylinder-2PC-/221115321758?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337b800d9e&vxp=mtr)
Fred
Quote from: eeshed on August 21, 2013, 07:35:41 AM
So, what is the difference between the original FJ Master Cylinder, which is 14mm, and the VFR? What are the advantages for moving to the VFR clutch and brake?
Eyal
The original FJ master is 5/8" (15.825mm) not 14mm. The reason I switched to the VFR m/c was to achieve lighter clutch lever pull because I'm using double diaphragm springs. The VFR m/c is easy to find second hand, cheap and easy to source parts for. Adjustable lever is also useful for those of us that have limited reach due to small hands. The appearance of the Honda m/c is also in keeping with the original FJ equipment. Pete. :i_am_so_happy:
AvFred said, "With the OEM FJ brake master the braking was greatly improved with the mentioned mods. Once the VFR master was installed there was an INCREDIBLE increase in stopping power."
Sorry, but this is not correct. The stopping power was there all the time. Changing the m/c would affect how hard you have to squeeze and how much movement the lever will have, but the stopping power is the same.
I think you mean that after the changes you didn't have to squeeze hard to get stopped.
Arnie
Hi all just wanted to revisit this thread as I have done a bit of work on the fjr clutch I installed on my 92. As I said I was not happy with the clutch engagement/disengagement and went ahead and ordered a new fj rebuild kit for the oem master, thinking I was going to swap it back out. while I was waiting on Randy, which wasn't very long I might add I decided to try and re bleed the clutch and see if that would help. I used the reverse bleed tech from the slave up and you know what?... Seems to be better. I also positioned the lever all the way out so there was to be no mistake on whether I pulled the lever all the way in or not. Long story longer I did end up rebuilding the fj master and installed it on my 89!
Andrew
Hey, AvFred, one question before the thread expires. :pardon:
So the stock brake master will work with blue-dots? (As an interim solution.) I was under the impression that I needed to have my whole kit assembled, (+ FRJ m/c), before starting on the conversion. I plan to do the whole thing, but would love to get at least halfway there, while I can wrench on my '92 during vacation. The blue-dots are sitting on the shelf right now. Thanks, Pete. :hi:
My brake master is not stock, but it the same diameter piston so my Blue Dots don't know the difference. Lever pull is stiffer than using the 14MM master, but it works well for me. With the OEM equivalent master and HH rated pads I feel confident I can lock up the front wheel with a two finger pull.... I say feel free to upgrade now.... :good2:
Quote from: FJmonkey on September 10, 2013, 06:14:07 PM
My brake master is not stock, but it the same diameter piston so my Blue Dots don't know the difference. Lever pull is stiffer than using the 14MM master, but it works well for me. With the OEM equivalent master and HH rated pads I feel confident I can lock up the front wheel with a two finger pull.... I say feel free to upgrade now.... :good2:
Did it turn out good for you?
Well, he did say he's stiffer... :yahoo:
Thanks for the info, since the fairing is off at the moment, I'll do the lines and blue-spots. Can wait for the increased st.... Oh, never mind. :drinks:
Viagra for your brakes.... :shok:
Its all about the stiffnes :lol:
:rofl2: :rofl2: :yahoo: :greeting: